Today is Heretic TOC’s third anniversary. So I hope you will join me, in spirit at least, in celebrating. Cheers!
Looking back, the occasion of the first anniversary was marked by some rather uncharacteristically gloomy reflections on my part titled What’s the point of it all, really? To my own question, I replied:
To be entirely honest, I am not sure. I know there are umpteen blogs I want to write, and that I am in absolutely no danger whatever of running out of things to say… But I do sometimes wonder whether… I might do better to concentrate my limited time on authoring books, or submitting articles to academic journals.
I am glad that I carried on blogging, and that was reflected in last years’ anniversary reflections, Oh shit, I forgot the kid’s birthday! My own existential angst over Heretic TOC’s purpose and future do not appear to have been shared by visitors, who continue to grow in number. The average hits per day here in the opening month, November 2012, was 89; in the corresponding month of 2013 there were 192; for 2014 the figure was up to 296. This year it is up again, to 363.
The most satisfying aspect of Heretic TOC for me has been the extent of engagement by fellow heretics, with a grand total – a very grand total – of 5,767 comments published so far as I write. One piece in this third year, Inadmissible Testimony, drew an astonishing 484 comments. This year also saw the most page views in a single day since the blog began: 1,685 on 20 July.
One wonderful aspect of this participation has been the generally high quality of the comments, which on a good many occasions have given me information and ideas I have quietly purloined and salted away in my own database for future exploitation. Some of these contributions have even been pressed into more immediate prominence, yoked into service as guest blogs in their own right. One of these, Towards the aetiology of paedophobia, turned out to be the first of a magnificent trio by Lensman (who now has his own excellent blog, Consenting Humans, writing as “leonard sisyphus mann”), the others being The future is green, and liberating for children and The staircase has not one step but many. All three were and remain truly profound analyses, worthy of continued study and reflection. If there is to be any lasting legacy of Heretic TOC, these pieces alone will comprise a mighty chunk of it.
As for any others that may be worth re-reading, I have been telling myself in the run-up to this anniversary that I really must have a good rummage through the back catalogue to fish out the best ones, with a view perhaps to running them as an e-book called Best of Heretic TOC, or whatever. In fact I mentioned just such a possibility in last last’s anniversary reflections. The only problem is actually getting around to doing the task. At least I have at last made a start, though, and following an appeal made here in July I am now kindly being helped by Ronnie (who posted on the About page) to compile an annotated index of every blog.
Looking forward, my feelings are still somewhat equivocal, as they were at the first anniversary. If there were any foreseeable prospect of kind people getting a better deal any time soon, if the mood were shifting towards the liberation of kids’ sexuality, rather than its suppression, I would doubtless feel a whole lot keener. To write in such an atmosphere would be truly exciting and exhilarating.
Even in a bear market, though, there are those who will always make a fast buck out of selling assets short, enabling such speculators to profit from panic. In a way, that is what the now thriving Virtuous Pedophiles are doing. They are selling kindness short, talking down the value of being kind and thereby making capital out of enabling unkindness to prosper. Their brand of writing and putting themselves about in the media might well feel “exciting and exhilarating” to those who sully themselves with it, but their success comes at the heavy price of selling their souls.
I make the point following the remarkable recent media coup by Todd Nickerson, already well known in kind circles for his posts as “Markaba” at GirlChat and elsewhere. Not that he uses the word kind to describe child lovers. On the contrary, in a long article in the hugely influential American online journal Salon, he went out of his way to adopt the divisive language favoured by the VPs. Thus he disparaged those of us who seek liberation through long-term cultural change as “pro-contacters”, thereby deliberately fostering the false and libellous impression that we invite kind people to be heedless of present laws, or even (since it is left to the reader’s imagination) that we would condone or excuse non-consensual acts.
The media loved Nickerson’s blend of pity-seeking and finger-pointing. Big pieces soon followed in Daily Mail and The Independent; there was an interview on Irish radio.
Unfortunately, we can expect more of the same. Much more. The VPs, with whom Nickerson is now actively associating himself, have for some time been presenting a package that clearly appeals to the media, and they are now becoming a widely recognised brand.
Posting their own facts and figures on Sexnet recently, they claimed to have over 1,000 members now, albeit, in the words of Nick Devin, co-founder of VP with Ethan Edwards, “They don’t all stay around obviously, and not all participate.” Sexnet moderator Mike Bailey humorously replied: “Congratulations! (I know it’s not true, but kind of funny to think of Nick, Ethan, and 998 FBI agents on a website.)”
Many a true word is said in jest, for sure, but I rather think those FBI agents and their British equivalents will be focusing harder on Heretic TOC than the VPs, for the obvious reason that we are more likely to be perceived as a source of “extremism”.
If the success of the VP brand presents a threat to heretical thinking – and make no mistake, it does – the crudely coercive agencies of the repressive state constitute a far bigger one. In the UK, especially, where this blog is written, the latest ominous development is the government’s plan for a new Extremism Disruption Order, already briefly mentioned in the comment columns here.
British radical Peter Tatchell has set the scene on his website, in an article titled Extremism Disruption Orders menace free speech.
The government’s main intention, announced earlier this year, is to crack down on Islamist extremism, with a view to stopping the process through which young Muslims become radicalised into taking part in bomb plots and going abroad to join “Islamic State”.
That sounds fine, but the measures the government has outlined strike at the heart of free expression. They are so broad and vague they could penalise a range of dissenting and minority opinions. The government has refused to define what it means by extremism, but the legislation will clamp down on “extremists” even if they have not broken the law. Don’t take my word for it, or Tatchell’s. Here is what prime minister David Cameron said when he was introducing the proposal:
“For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone.” He then went on to promise that the government “will conclusively turn the page on this failed approach.”
So, no more tolerance! Obeying the law is not enough! What will be demanded in our supposedly liberal society, it seems, is total conformity.
Simon Calvert, director of Defend Free Speech, set up to oppose the initiative, said:
“Defend Free Speech believes innocent people will fall foul of this unnecessary and dangerous piece of legislation. It will criminalise those who hold unpopular, unfashionable or challenging views. This could include pro- and anti-religious groups, trade unionists, environmental and animal rights activists, critics of UK foreign policy and people campaigning for LGBT rights. Indeed, we have already seen police urging teachers to report on parents who go to anti-fracking protests.”
In such a climate, it does not need much imagination to understand that pro-kind views will be in the firing line and that a blog such as Heretic TOC will immediately be branded extremist, even though it could hardly be more polite and moderate. Indeed, when the politicians talk about what “extremism” should be taken to mean, they tend to talk in terms of “glorifying” terrorism and “normalising” paedophilia. Unlike the anti-frackers and the rest, us heretics would be seen as prime targets along with the directors of obscenely glamorised beheading videos.
Defend Free Speech has warned that EDOs could be used to prevent individuals from going to certain places, mixing with particular people or even using mobile phones, the internet and social media. The group says the government will use the civil law test of “the balance of probabilities” rather than the stronger criminal test of “beyond reasonable doubt” in order to impose the EDOs and that even the mere risk of causing “distress” could be enough to trigger the new powers.
My guess is that the worst fears expressed by Defend Free Speech will not come to pass. This group appears to be very broad-based, and its leadership includes heavyweights such as former Conservative Party leadership contender David Davis MP, former Green Party leader Caroline Lucas MP and ex-Chief Constable Lord Dear. Robust resistance to the worst excesses of the EDOs can be expected from the now rather splendidly militant House of Lords.
Whose freedom of expression will not be accommodated though? Why, us heretical kind people, of course. In these circumstances, it may become impossible in the coming year to continue a blog such as Heretic TOC unless it is written from outside the UK. In any case, there must come a time when, as an individual, one’s contribution has run its course. While this is not quite a valedictory on my part, it is intended to hint that others – especially those in other parts of the world – should be thinking how best to sustain a discourse of heresy in the perhaps not very distant future.
[…] last year, on the occasion of Heretic TOC’s third anniversary, I blogged under the title “Extremists plot to disrupt ‘distressing’ dissent”, which reported that the UK government was proposing to tackle terrorism by cracking down on the […]
Congrats, don’t stop, and yes, there are many of us who would gladly upload for you if it comes to that.
I don’t know, I have a feeling the whole repressive schtick is going to blow a gasket and at least voices will be heard. No facts to back that up other than watching Republicans and the occasional Tory explode.
> I have a feeling the whole repressive schtick is going to blow a gasket
Let’s hope so. Some cracks are evident.
Hi Tom,
Happy birthday! 3 years is still quite young, I hope your blog will continue growing like a healthy boy 🙂
Btw, I’ve sent you an email a week ago concerning the Decent Life videos, I hope you got it?
>Btw, I’ve sent you an email a week ago concerning the Decent Life videos, I hope you got it?
My apologies, I thought I had replied! Must do this at once!
Congratulations on the third anniversary Tom! I feel excited about the fact that people have been a bit more active regarding activism as you said citing the average hits per day.
I would like to make some comments only.
When I first read about VPs I felt very disappointed and I refused to believe I was “sick but a kind person and needs help”. I felt disgusted. That wasn’t what I am. If I was to spend my whole life thinking that I was sick I would really become sick and probably take my life. I don’t know what other CLs thought about the VP speech.
The other comment is about this (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/twisted-paedophile-information-exchange-beast-6811483)
You probably read this already. Is it legal in UK to attack people such as this?
They also said you were arrested because of distribution of indecent photos. You explained in your book the reasons that put you in jail; you could sue them for this. Anyways, the bright side is that they talked about the best book published about paedophilia and also talked about your Blog! There is no bad publicity 😉
>You explained in your book the reasons that put you in jail; you could sue them for this.
Unfortunately, no, I could not sue over this. The book was written in 1980 and much has happened since. It’s a fairly long and complicated story. If you want to catch up with the background it is here, especially in the “Crime and Punishment” section towards the end:
http://williamapercy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tom_O%27Carroll_Biography
I should add that your view of the VPs is very interesting. Thanks for giving us this personal reaction.
> “If I was to spend my whole life thinking that I was sick I would really become sick and probably take my life.”
I spend my life thinking I’m sick about my attraction to adult women, and I have not become more sick and I have not taken my life, on the contrary, I thought several times to take my own life before I realized that my own sexual attraction to adults they were only the result of ancient mental traces of my ancestors and animals. (if you dont believe me, that’s not my problem).
>(if you dont believe me, that’s not my problem).
I suspect that for many readers the problem will not be believing you, NSO, but understanding you! The idea that a man’s attraction to adult women is sick will seem completely off the wall — so much so, indeed, that they will find it hard to believe you are serious.
Perhaps is because this is Heretic-TOC, the place of heresies, and all that this “off-the-wall” and is there any greater heresy than mine? I guess Virpeds also the same thing happened, “a pedophile who does not want sex with children? is not serious!” or pro-contact “the idea of sexuality with kids without harm? is a joke!”.
But good comment, Tom, btw
> “I spend my life thinking I’m sick about my attraction to adult women”
If you mean ordinary attraction to adult women I have nothing else to comment on this stupidity, but if you mean that you think you are sick because you are pretty much obsessed for women, then I understand why you think you’re sick. The problem arises from the fact that we don’t agree that we’re sick, but in your own case you think you’re sick so you’re comfortable with it. There is no reason for you to take your own life. But a great disagreement on what you are could cause a real mental illness or just a disturbance that could lead one to take his own life. I know that many BLs have/had suicidal thoughts it could be exactly because of the fact that they think they’re a monster, a rapist or whatever other bullshit they’re told. Believing and ultimately knowing that I’m not sick takes me away from this zone of suicide in which unfortunately I have to admit many paedos might be close to.
I hope I made myself understood….
I’m glad you NSO found a reason to stay because the reason you had for taking your life was very very stupid (no offenses). There is no law preventing you to have attraction to women! Did you really need to think about ancients for keep on living? Anyways, the world suffers from the same sickness as you do so go do your business you are allowed to.
Cheers, my friend!
Your comment is so disrespectful… really not even know how I can answer all of you:
>>> “If you mean ordinary attraction to adult women I have nothing else to comment on this stupidity”
In the opinion of millions of people, you deserve death or castration just for being a pedophile, so it is irrelevant whether you think my opinion on the attraction to adults is “stupid” and even more if you know I think of pedophiles and homosexuals in general.
In my “stupid” opinion, animal attractions are wicked and must be treated with medical science, including but not limited to teleiophilia and “and-you-know-the-others.”
The law is irrelevant, is bad, because it is the result of a genetic error. No, humans, never, never should have attraction to adults, and the proof is all child murders, jealousy and gender violence, teleiophilia is a shameful error in our species.
About pedophiles? sorry, I don’t continue, because here it is forbidden to speak against.
No, before being a teleiophile, “you-know-the-word” or anything that all of you represent, before that, I prefer to go “in-that-happy-place-ruled-by-that-guy-with-a-halo-in-the-head”.
Well… Tom, it was necessary to say this, but hopefully not come back here anymore.
Guess I didn’t realise you are quite so fragile, NSO, or I might not have allowed the comment of which you complain. H-TOC prefers polite language, for sure, but the repeated expression of ideas that are both provocative (nothing wrong with that) and not well supported (plenty wrong with this) is bound to test readers’ patience to the point where it becomes legitimate to allow them to sound off in rather blunt terms.
TNSO is trying to explain that in his view, the only legitimate erotic attraction for an adult male is toward girls in the 9-17 age range. Hebephilia and ephebophilia are the only allowed sexualities according to his doctrine. Fortunately for me, my avatar picture is fully orthodox and holy.
No, friend, being a pedophile and homosexual there is nothing wrong in that, I just say that hebephilia is something almost religious (from my point of view and personal experiences), it seems right to me that a man has attraction to girls under 9 and boys, yes I have a political opposition against pedophiles and homosexuals movements, but not to each individual attractions, even the attraction to adults, which you have, and that does not prevent me to appreciate you.
And by the way, there is only “holiness” in hebephilia not ephebophilia, post-pubescents as are adults with 15 or 16 years or more, excepting if they are Asian, one also it has its weaknesses, and all have committed some sin sometimes.
And yes, your avatar is full of holiness.
NSO, First of all my apologise for perhaps have hurt your feelings. I don’t mean to cause other people’s life anything bad even not knowing them personally.
I have to confess that I might have sounded blunt because it really got to me that you sort of implied that having attraction to women is very similar to having attraction to children in terms of what we have to go through on our lives.
Perhaps you haven’t meant a word about what I thought you meant. Why? Because I think it’s a bit hard to understand what you mean exactly.
> “In my “stupid” opinion, animal attractions are wicked and must be treated with medical science”
Do you mean only humans and animals? or amongst all the animals species? Because I’ve got a dog that wants to do stuffs with my cat and sometimes even with humans! Nasty dog! Should he be treated with medical science? I guess no. People and animals? Well, for me consent is essential. ops, perhaps both the person and the animal need treatment.
Half the world wants us dead. Yes, I agree. Now let’s take them all and send them maybe 5,000 ahead maybe they’ll love me! maybe they’ll have invented a machine to find paedos and I’m screwed! maybe BL will be babysitters, maybe, maybe, maybe….. So, I couldn’t careless about they say, they don’t know what they’re talking about, they have good intention (protect the children) but what they know is stereotype. Poor humans, immersed in complete ignorance.
> “…H-TOC prefers polite language…”
** If this was directed to me
Tom, my apologises if I was very disrespectful in my writting to H-TOC or to our friends on here. Polite language should always be the standard English but I should say that some phrases make me speak with my heart and its words aren’t very polite but meaningful lol.
Have you’all a good day
Thank you YoungBL.
>…I should say that some phrases make me speak with my heart and its words aren’t very polite but meaningful
Yes, and that’s why I decided to allow your comment. It was meaningful, in an acceptable way, to me and probably others. When we let rip, though, our raw thoughts and feelings often tend to be meaningful in a very different way to the person at whom we are directing them: the meaning is reduced; the message comes across just as hostility — which, unsurprisingly, often leads to entrenched mutual antagonism, with no real enhancement of meaning and understanding on either side.
Hey, Tom, and you’re back to piss people? Here again people asking for your execution by the issue of child sex robots. They put you on a -emperor- level on the subject of pedophilia, as positive thing about this.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/twisted-paedophile-information-exchange-beast-6811483
“Rambling”? Hardly. Some of the comments yes, including some of mine…
Without wishing to Godwin the thing…I suppose it is a bit Nazi, isn’t it? Beast, predator etc.: subhumans.
That’s the difference between them and me, I’m not a psychopath Nazi, and if something I do not like about Tom, I come here and I say it, I do not insult cowardly elsewhere as they do, besides Tom at least fight for their ideas, does not dedicate his life to destroy others by having different tastes like they.
I think ‘rambling’ in this context means ‘beyond the attention span of the average Mirror reader’.
A truly hilarious article from the Mirror – one of their funniest ever. It seems to have taken them a long time to discover Heretic TOC, doesn’t it?
A truly hilarious article from the Mirror – one of their funniest ever. It seems to have taken them a long time to discover Heretic TOC
That’s because their average reader had to be given the necessary time to learn to write and read…
Also..He was not wrong about the Milton Diamond study; Its true that sanctions and international pressure from especially America has caused Japan to tighten up its pornography laws regarding ‘minors’…But when the studies were conducted, the laws were positively permissive. Here is an interesting article on how we see sex as such a destructive force (especially in the west)!
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/11/the-stigma-of-sex-related-health-risks/415518/
Happy Birthday to Tom’s little darling, Toc!
And three is a soft spot within my aoa.
Happy Birthday to my favourite, lively, curious, heretical three year-old and thanks for your appreciative comments and the plug for my blog!
I understand why you are pessimistic regarding a better future for ‘Kinds and Kids’: we live in a world that seems to get scarier by the day, and this has never been a good context for the extension of understanding and rights for oppressed groups.
I find particularly troubling two recent murders in which the fact that the victim was a suspected paedophile is put forwards by the defence (and accepted by the judge) as a mitigating factor. And the alleged ‘abuse’ in both these case was with children whom the murderer had no connection and didn’t know.
Concerning the EDOs possible impact on your blog – if the worst comes to the worst, and depending on the exact nature of the repression, I can imagine some work-arounds may be possible – such as your blog being managed by proxy by one or two sympathetic Heretics living in another country and posting your blogs for you. I ‘m sure that you have readers who would be happy to help out with this.
Heretic TOC must continue – your blog and your books are THE keystone of pro-choice thinking. You embody defiant freedom of speech and freedom of thought facing down the ignorance and brutishness of populism.
Many thanks, Sisyphus, if I may be so bold as to use my favourite name from among your three. The proxy idea could work, I think. Let’s hope the EDOs will be less drastic than feared. Good to think about possible scenarios though. Sorry to hear about your Twitter hassles, which definitely echo my own.
Concerning the EDOs possible impact on your blog – if the worst comes to the worst, and depending on the exact nature of the repression, I can imagine some work-arounds may be possible – such as your blog being managed by proxy by one or two sympathetic Heretics living in another country and posting your blogs for you. I ‘m sure that you have readers who would be happy to help out with this.
Count me in on this, Tom! I’ll be among those “one or two sympathetic Heretics” who promise to ensure that your voice continues to be spoken no matter what fascist deviltry may come to pass in the U.K.’s future!
A totalitarian state needs two enemies to justify its suspension of civil rights, and the abandonment of any semblance of democracy: an external one, and an internal one. Guess who the internal one is?
Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you…
I’m sure TOC knows this, but for anyone who isn’t aware: Peter Tatchell has long advocated an age of consent of 14 and better sex education. In 1997, he had a letter published in the Guardian in which he said: “Several of my friends — gay and straight, male and female — had sex with adults from the ages of 9 to 13. None feel they were abused. All say it was their conscious choice and gave them great joy. While it may be impossible to condone paedophilia, it is time society acknowledged the truth that not all sex involving children is unwanted, abusive and harmful.” That same year, he published this interview: https://www.ipce.info/newsletters/e_22/2_16_Lee.htm
It seems that he has now been bullied into putting a disclaimer at the top of all AOC-related articles on his website. The disclaimer reads, in part: “I do not support adults having sex with children. I do not advocate teenagers having sex before the age of 16. But if they do have sex before their 16th birthday, they should not be arrested, given a criminal record and put on the sex offenders register.”
I wasn’t around during the heyday of PIE. It’s almost impossible for me to imagine paedophiles organising openly in person to fight for their rights. But when I came across sites like IPCE, which function as repositories of stuff from back then, my eyes were opened. A ‘Best Of’ ebook may be all that can be managed at the moment, but it’s something. Just words on the screen can save some people from killing themselves and others from living in self-loathing. Maybe that’s all that can be done at the moment, but it’s not nothing. It does matter, tremendously.
I liked this from the last IPCE newsletter: https://www.ipce.info/newsletters/e_29/report.htm#Discussion. “Wise man” — that’d be Tom then! I hope you can and do stick around for a bit. I’m happy to blether on in other fora, as I’m sure many of us are, but I have all the organisational ability of a half-baked grapefruit.
>I hope you can and do stick around for a bit.
Thanks, A! I’ll try to hang in for a while. I was not aware Peter Tatchell had been quite so specific as in that “9 to 13” quote. I must remember that.
Screenshot of the original letter below. It’s from a hostile blog so I’ve made it not a hotlink.
hxxp://matthewhopkinsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Tatchell-Letter-1997-06-26.png
Thanks for the link – and for supportive comments elsewhere, of course!
> “Several of my friends — gay and straight, male and female — had sex with adults from the ages of 9 to 13.”
I mean first of all, this post is serious, no kidding here, for there is no doubt, ok Tom?
That is exactly what I proposed all the time, neither more nor less, ie sex only at puberty, from 9-13, that was all about in my “religion”, hence my attacks on pedophilia and the teleiophilia, is all that’s why I am against everything else (though I tolerate pedophilia more than teleiophilia), and that the age of consent to 14 is stupid, and 15, 16 etc. Nature tells us to have sex IN puberty (hence the sexual development at that age, 9-10 aprox.)
And what he says of “adults from 9-13” is a half-truth, that is I think are “young adults” but not adults in a negative sense as I say, evil beings and degenerate as I usually talk about adult people but are true adults in a “good” sense, this is the reason to call me “hebephile” no “teleiophile” and called them “adolescents” or “young” instead of “adult” to differentiate the “good” adulthood of “bad” adulthood.
Oh, I don’t know. Nature was telling me to have sex when I was 10, before any signs of puberty appeared. I got very near to making a pass at a girl of 11 but was foiled by circumstance. For that matter, when I was 6 nature was telling me to try and touch the penises of 5-year-old boys.
Puberty dont start at 10 or 11? Wonderful, well, also we go to heaven when we die… it nice to live in your own reality. But. Yes, of course, with 5 and 6 years, kids wants hot sex, little perverts who are they! I do not understand how society attacks pedophilia.. damn, if being a pedophile is pure logic!
Forgive my comments is that I am an abnormal deviated who never had desire to sex with six years, never had sex with another child or an adult, and dont touch any penis, vagina, etc. I have non-pedophilic disorder. Have compassion, please.
Female puberty typically does start at 10 or 11, but there’s a lot of variation: at 10 I had no secondary sexual characteristics; some girls start developing them at 9, some not until 12.
There is a difference between wanting “hot sex” – if by that you mean adult-centric types of sexual activities, which is typically expected to culminate in penetrative intercourse (or oftentimes sodomy, particularly in the case of homosexual adult males) – and having a simple curious desire for low-level sexual exploration, or “sex play.” MAPs DO NOT claim that pre-pubescents in the age range of, say, 6-7, typically want adult-level sexual activity, either with each other or with adults. Accordingly, pedophiles tend to have sexual desires on the level of a child, meaning a desire for low-level sexual exploration (confined to activities such as kissing, touching, mutual exposure, etc.) that is not really compatible with typical adult desires (assuming the adults in question are not naturally asexual).
The contention that pedophiles want adult-like sexual activity with pre-pubescents, and/or that they believe there are many children who also want to engage in sexual activity on that level, is a misconception. Part of the reason that misconception is so rampant is because of poor choice of verbiage by both Non-MAPs and MAPs alike when discussing this topic, e.g., making references to “intergenerational sex” (which implies penetrative intercourse and/or sodomy) instead of more accurate, less emotionally provocative terminology such as “intergenerational sexual activity” or “intergenerational sexual contact.”
That’s the difference, I do not have my sexuality to the “level” of a child, but a young or teen, that’s why I’m an hebephile and not pedophile. I have no problem with that kind of pedophilia, just pedophiles (like the rest of humanity) have given me reason to distrust them.
I have no problem talking to you about this issue in the Leonard’s blog, btw.
I know there are many bad examples of humanity out there, NewSexualOrder, but I personally try not to have my view of any particular group of people tainted by any of the bad examples. A better world cannot be built, IMO, if we all harbor a cynical mistrust of each other. Certainly history has proven that laws based on such feelings do not lead to a free society.
Quite! A boy-loving man interviewed by Lautmann said: “It’s merely the result of children’s games. You play doctor in the usual way. Almost everyone does it of course. I don’t think it’s anything particularly special. Actually it’s nothing more than heavy petting, along those lines.” Another man said: “Spontaneity plays a big role in sexual encounters with children. Indeed, I haven’t slept with this one ten-year-old girl. So it’s stayed in the realm of much more limited kinds of sexual play, with a sort of game approach. But these thoroughly spontaneous situations appeal to me more than consummated sexual intercourse with an adult woman does.”
I think many teleophiles would have a hard time believing that these people are sincere, because they themselves cannot imagine being satisfied with a sexual relationship that included no intercourse. But expectations, experience and consideration for one’s partner play a big role in determining what is enough to satisfy. I suggest that many CLs, especially those attracted to younger children, remain all their lives similar in this one respect to teenagers for whom a makeout session on the couch with some genital touching is the height of sexual excitement, because that’s as far as they’ve ever gone and all they expect.
In many ways, A, Mother Nature is the ultimate perv. “She” created the many forms of sexuality that moral crusaders supporting human-made rules and cultural mores rally against. Reconciling moralistic beliefs with Mother Nature’s edicts is often so difficult that moral crusaders don’t even try; they simply try to penalize all people who follow and embrace nature’s lead above that of the moralizers.
Nature is no perverted, “sex-with-all-is-good”. And most of those “sexualities” are harmful mental traces, are not natural, are the product of a bad evolution of humanity and barbaric practices by ancestors (they will transmit to you their traces, including your parents) and I think human behavior regarding sexuality must be regulated according to a sexological religion, to avoid depravity that corrupt us as a species, and therefore, corrupts us individually, and btw I have the right to not have any harmful trace, just because 2 adults wanted to conceive me against nature, because every conception outside the hebephilia produces mental traces. And I must say that a guy who talk about babies and very little kids can consent sex, is more fun when at same time speaks of “following nature”.
Well, as they say, the only unnatural sex act is that which you cannot perform. I thought it was Kinsey who first said that, but upon investigation I find it’s more complicated: http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/03/20/unnatural-act/
Then necrophilia and rape are “natural” too? And if are natural does not mean they are good, AIDS is natural, and also hemlock.
Well yes, good point.
Congratulations, Tom, on three great years! You really have (again) started something very valuable here. I think you are very prescient in thinking that the Cameron-type yobs may well start automatically to dismantle UK options for continuing free-speech portals such as this. Hosting a similar blog outside of the UK needs to be looked at urgently. Any ideas, anyone?
The Netherlands? Possibly?
This is capitalism in action: the market responds to purchasing power as if it were an informal vote in a kind of democracy. When 99% of purchasing power is in the hands of 1% of the population, the market is responding to the needs of a tiny minority of ‘voters’. This plutocratic bias is at the heart of Westminster and Jeffersonian democracies, which were both created by the rich for the rich.
As with the perpetual warfare of Orwell’s fictional society of 1984 , a dramatized struggle over borders serves as a proxy for consensus. The threat posed by a breach of those borders is not a physical threat to ordinary people but a threat to uncover the lies that sustain the hegemony of the usurping powers. Controlling “the bounds of thinkable thought” (Chomsky’s phrase) is fundamental to holding this line, and so ‘terrorists’ and other ‘enemies of the state’ must be denied an authentic platform or any kind of sympathetic representation.
The irony of course is that this intrinsic power imbalance is exactly what motivates the techniques of asymmetrical warfare that are at the heart of actual terrorism. In a similar way, inquisitorial persecution of other out groups, such as sexual minorities, narrows their choices, distorts their capacity to participate in normal human life and forces them to act in a marginal manner appropriate to the margins into which they have been confined.
As a consequence of all this, I try to resist the pressure to define myself according to a discourse designed to serve ends that have nothing to do with my sexuality and much to do with geopolitics and greed. For myself, I’m ‘virtuous’ in my conduct (for whatever reason) but also a sexual libertarian with a deep suspicion of sex negative ideology. I don’t rush to judge adults who’ve had sexual contact with children (and sometimes I envy them), but I do judge (harshly) those adults who’ve molested or abused children. In either case, I’m much more interested in understanding than judging.
So I’m not comfortable with the factionalism that pits ‘pro-contact’ paedophiles against ‘virtuous’ ones. It just feels like a response to higher level manipulation of the discourse, as if the terms have been set in a way that deprives us of the freedom to represent our own views on our own terms. Questions around conduct with children are important, even crucial, but we all have a right to approach them openly and in accordance with our own personal intuition and personal beliefs, without being forced into the kind of ‘extremism’ that ultimately serves no one except those exploiting our powerlessness to their own ends.
I used to live in an area that was one of the poorest in the EU on many measures and also almost totally Muslim. Consequently I feel that the problem of Europe-raised youths taking off to join Islamic State et al. has a lot more to do with systemic issues that no current government is willing to address than with speeches made by radical clerics.
There are striking similarities between fear of the Muslim bogeyman and paedohysteria. The idea is that Islamic terrorists and MAPs both corrupt youth in a particularly nasty way: by making them do something awful while also making them believe there’s nothing wrong with what they’re doing (‘grooming’). There’s even the same problem of teenagers going AWOL: the 15-year-old who took off to France with her mathematics teacher; the 14-year-old who disappeared to Turkey to marry a waiter (her grandmother was apparently dismayed when he was jailed for statutory rape: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/2775707.stm); the 13-year-old who ran away with his best buddy, a 40-year-old woman (https://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/seduction.htm). The proposed solution is much the same, too: imprison a bunch of people indefinitely and crack down on thoughtcrime, while imposing from the outside categories of ‘good’ Muslims and ‘bad’ Muslims, and, increasingly, ‘virtuous’ and ‘vicious’ MAPs. The difference of course is that Islamic State is as we speak perpetrating all sorts of horrors, whereas when I crunched the few numbers that there are to crunch I found, unsurprisingly, no greater a tendency to rape and sexual assault among MAPs than there is among teleiophiles.
I agree that alienation and rejection, rather than militant speeches, are likely to be the main cause of teenagers running off to join IS and the like. How telling it is that paedophiles and Muslims are lumped together as threats to the innocent children! Isn’t one of the reasons for ever more intrusive internet surveillance, frankly, sheer panic at the thought of the baddies having direct person to person contact with said kiddies? In their bedrooms for goodness sake!
Tom, how time flies. It seems only a little while since your last blog-anniversary. You have opened my eyes in so many ways. Many happy returns! And thankyou A. for your wonderful and colourful contributions 🙂
Cheers Gantier! In retrospect it was kind of dumb of me to choose a one-letter pseudonym but it seems I’m known by it now so…
Just for you, here’s a lovely happy teen runaway story that I harvested (I think?) from a newspaper comment section:
“My sister ran away with a man more than twice her age when she was 15 — although only a few streets away from home. Our mother had the police out and tried to drag her back but she insisted she was there because she wanted to be (and because she wanted to be as far away from our parents as she could) and not because he had suggested it. The police said there was nothing they could do since she was a few months (8) off being 16 and she had made it quite clear that it was her own decision and that she loved him. That was over 30 years ago. They got married when she was 16, went on to have 3 children and have just welcomed their 5th grandchild into the world.”
I noticed you wrote that you used to live in a Muslim area of the EU. I live in one of those predominantly Muslim suburbs of northern Europe. Right now, just two days after the Paris attacks, it is difficult to think rationally, but one thing seems to be clear. The terrorists want to divide us, they hate to see Muslims mixing with non-Muslims. They are scared that their young religion will lose its pull, be compromised through the influence of heretics, become marginalised like many of the older religions have been. To them integration is more threat than opportunity. Judging by the more bombastic reactions of some of our politicians, the terrorists may succeed with their aim of emptying the middle ground. That must not happen. This is the beauty of this blog, always seeking to engage in debate, always ready to question and disallow the rougher, unacceptable, edges of our sexuality, always hoping that the established sexualities will shift their positions just a little.
If what appears here has not been rambling so far, it is now I guess!
No, that is not rambling at all but a very crucial idea. We must do what is possible to dispel the misinformation (we slowly sink in quiet desperation…) that is rampant within our societies regarding paedophilia.. We have to convince people that the good feeling they get from bashing this orientation is ill-conceived and is born out of a desire to make sense in moral terms, of the present moral wild-land. They have to be led to see that what they are attacking lies within the very core of what they are trying to defend.
Yes, very well put. I am worried about the strength this is going to give to France’s National Front. Young Muslims whose neighbours start voting FN are going to feel even more marginalised…
Well we knew that would happen, sorry pal, c’est la vie.
What I would like to know is, hatred against adultophilia would also be considered “extremist” and illegal? I mean, the adultophiles not “exist” that is not recognized as sexuality or group of people “adultophilia”, only heterosexuality and that mob of “LGBT” are so called “sexuality”, so my hate speech is to nonexistent people, is like hate extraterrestrials.
Imagine a future without pedophile activism (You already know what I think in overall of this “movement”), would be supplanted by the “anti-adultophile movement” that is, the “inverse” of the “anti-pedophile movement” and we could annihilate the adultophilia (between you and me, Tom, we both know that people do not worth it) and pedohebephilia would be “encouraged” for attacking the adultophilia.
It’s like a triangle, increase an edge decreases the other, so if we decrease the adultophilia “side” will increase the pedophilia and hebephilia (can be put in balance, they would come down one, imagine a triangle with 2 equal edges and a one small , you see?
There are three options for MAPs: Virtuous Pedophiles, Pedophile Activism (ie pro-contact, such as BC or GC, etc.) and Anti-Adultophile Movement (mine), just choose, A, B, or C.
Just my two cents. I leave you the proposals there, Kind people.
PS: A small portion of these comments are mine, basically: religious shit, and insults (openly or not) against pedophiles and adultophiles,but I think this blog is “cool”… I’ve tried to love kind people… intention is what counts, no?
Good work, Tom, I prefer you that all these “virtuous”.
>A small portion of these comments are mine, basically: religious shit, and insults (openly or not) against pedophiles and adultophiles
To be honest, NSO, I am finding it hard to distinguish what you really believe in from your more colourful provocations. Maybe I should stop trying!