Today’s guest blog is by “Marco”, who tells me he is “just a citizen of the world” and that he is “permanently stuck at that stage of life where he can’t help asking ‘why?’ all the time”. This is far too modest. He is not “just” anything. He has a powerful intellect and an impressive career record. This will not be clear from the first part of this two-part blog, which focuses on his early life, but you may in due course feel that evidence of his thoughtfulness emerges strongly in the second part.
I AM A SURVIVOR
One of the first memories about my own sexuality was in a summer camp. I was 10. Apparently, I was making it so obvious that an older guy yelled, “What are you doing, staring at other boys’ asses!?” Ooops! So, yeah, that was my very first sex education lesson: “You’re not supposed to do that. It’s wrong.” In the camp, there were showers with bamboo screens, which gave less than total privacy because in between the cracks you could get a glimpse of who was inside. One day, word was going around that there were naked women in the showers. Several boys told me about it in great excitement! Since I had a camera, which not many people had at the time, they wanted me to take photos. And I did so despite having no interest in women’s bodies. So at 10 I was already closeted to avoid disappointing my friends’ expectations.

At school, I was the shy nerd. Always trying to avoid conflict. For years, I thought I was the only boy in the world who felt attraction to other boys. At the beginning, having such a secret —”I like boys”… and to be more specific, “I like boys’ asses and dicks”— was arousing. However, years went by, and over the course of my adolescence that fantasy gradually turned into a burden. I repressed myself so much, for so long, that the closet became asphyxiating. I eventually felt the urge to have a real experience. I managed to swallow my shyness and made a few attempts with some acquaintances, but it didn’t work out. Finding peers in a small town is definitely not an easy job for sexual minorities. One day, I observed one of those hand-written notes on a public toilet door: “If you want to suck my dick come here next Tuesday at 6pm.” And that’s exactly what I did. The plan was set: If the guy is hot then enjoy, if the guy is average then just do the job, and if the guy is ugly then run away. The guy turned out to be average for my physical preferences. When he saw me, he made a visible gesture that he was not expecting anyone so young. He hesitated. He asked about my age. I was 17, he was in his 30s. I have never been especially attracted to people much older than me, but I was desperate and he was not ugly enough for me to reject. I suggested doing unsafe sex, but he was kind enough to tell me to play it safe. So, yeah, my first sexual contact was in a blind date with a grown-up.
That experience, though, was not the ultimate relief, since I had been carrying a heavy emotional backpack of repression. The realisation that I spent so many years losing opportunities for real sex while I was isolated in my fantasies was horrible. It is the kind of thought where you realise you have spoiled your time for many years, leading a life that does not represent at all what you wanted to be. This realisation was so disturbing that I entered a depression phase in which I made several suicide attempts. The first time I put my fingers to the wall socket; nothing happened except having a fright. The second time I randomly swallowed pills from the medicine cabinet, which ended with my mum dragging me to the hospital while struggling to keep me conscious. So, yeah, I am a survivor. I mean, literally. It was actually at the hospital bed when I came out to my parents. I later got psychiatric help for depression. The only options I was seeing were either to keep hiding myself like a rat and lose opportunities for real sex, or to come out as a faggot and see how everyone rejects me. What a dilemma! You have to understand that, at the time, homosexuality was a taboo and we still were considered deviants. The American Psychiatric Association considered it a mental disorder. Happily, my therapist helped me reconcile with myself and look forward to a new future. After that, at the age of 19, I felt free to open the Pandora’s box of my sexuality. I suddenly quit my summer job and my parents’ place to move to the big city! This is where I had my first kiss. Yay! I also became a sex worker for over a year, which in my case was an act of rebellion against society (and, of course, also a means to pay for my bills after such an abrupt emancipation). The city can be a liberating experience, but it also has its dark side. One night, I was beaten up by a group of young men after they saw me holding hands with a guy, leaving my face badly bruised.
As a young adult, I got actively involved in the gay movement, being among the first to come out in my region, enrolling as an ILGA member, getting involved in politics, engaging with local associations, and so on. It was in one of these groups that I started a row that ended up with its dissolution, because I wanted it to condemn paedophilia after pressures from the local council to do so. I behaved like a demon, a fanatic, led by hysteria and fear. I know, I know… What a hypocrite I was! But there’s more. This story has only just started.
I’ve always had, and still have, many fulfilling sexual relationships with adults. One day, someone texted me on Grindr. Blank profile. He disappeared and reappeared with a new profile over the course of several weeks, maybe months. We eventually had a proper online conversation. I let him take the initiative without pressure. He was looking for a sex encounter and he had a very clear idea about what he wanted to do in bed. It was a very specific fantasy. To be honest, he was so lovely and sexy in his Instagram that I had a crush. He told me he was 13, about to turn 14. OMG. What should I do? Oh no! The Ghost of the Dilemmas reappeared again. I could either repress myself and lose the opportunity to enjoy a very desired experience, or take the risk of going to jail and being labelled as a “paedo” for the rest of my life. I then decided to take legal advice. Rest assured, I will never forget that consultation. After entering her office, I set the scene, saying that teenagers use dating apps looking for sexual encounters, and I happened to have an interest in someone, and the interest was mutual. She asked about “her” age —she assumed I was talking about a girl— and I answered. After some hesitation, she said, I quote, “…up to 16 years old… Hmmm… No.” Which obviously begged the question, “What about 16 to 18 years old, then?” She replied, “Hmmm… Still no.” WTF!!?? Sounded like a bad joke. She then asked my age. When I told her she reacted like, “Oh my goodness!”. There are times when facial expression tells you way more than words. She slowly shook her head in disapproval. She stared at me in reproof as if I were a criminal. A disgusting monster. A predator. I was sex shamed. Her attitude was so obvious that I reacted, “Look, I have no interest at all in your moral beliefs, I just came here looking for legal advice.” There was a lot of tension in the room. She replied, “OK, OK” and I left angrily.
I eventually decided not to meet the boy, which has been one of the toughest decisions I have ever faced. It felt like cutting off my own limb. Emotionally excruciating. I mentally collapsed. It left me with a series of anxiety crises for over a year, for which I required treatment. Yes, again. Fortunately, my anxiety is completely over these days. But, why did I decide not to meet the youngster? To be continued…
***
Your regular heretic resumes below the photo…

HOW HOT IS ‘BLUE FILM’?
Debuted at Edinburgh International Film Festival, Blue Film has been touted as the most controversial movie of the year, but you wouldn’t mistake it for any of Bonnie Blue’s work.
Reviewers tell us it is mainly just talk rather than sex. But, as one of the main characters has been to prison for involvement with a 12-year-old boy, and the portrayal could be seen as sympathetic, we can see why it might be a hot potato.
So, is it any good? I didn’t go to Edinburgh to see it, but we can glean a lot from the reviews. Damon Wise sets the scene well at a movie site called Deadline:
The opening sequence is a lot; [Kieron] Moore plays Aaron Eagle, who is what they apparently call a “camboy”, basically an online male escort who taunts his submissive gay audience with his jacked, tattooed body and sexually loaded insults. All he’s wearing is a pair of white briefs, but the hidden booty of what’s inside gets the cash registers ringing. Aaron is pretty good as this, and the money is flowing in. But even by his own flush standards he’s about to strike gold: an anonymous fan has offered to pay him $50,000 for an overnight stay, and, much to the fan’s surprise, he’s taking him up on the offer.
We see this when the man, wearing a balaclava, opens the door to his single-use Airbnb and finds Aaron on the doorstep with his overnight bag. Aaron is good to go, but the man has other plans, insisting that his guest sit down first for an extensive video interview. It becomes pretty clear that this mysterious stranger knows a lot more about Aaron than he has bargained for, chipping away at his cultivated but clearly fake identity in ways that leave him vulnerable — and angry. From this point on, it’s impossible to discuss the film without revealing what could be construed as a major plot point, though instead of a spoiler alert, it may be fairer to call it a trigger warning.
Well, we’re not going to be “triggered” here, I trust! The big reveal comes when the stranger takes off his balaclava (a disguise described in other reviews as a ski mask, but no matter). That’s when Aaron discovers this is no stranger at all. It’s Hank Grant (Reed Birney), one of his old middle school teachers. This is in the US, where middle-school pupils are typically 11 to 14. Hank was fired for the “attempted sexual assault”, whatever that might mean, of a 12-year-old student.
I’m guessing there was nothing rapacious. Probably more like a rejected pass, judging by where writer-director Elliot Tuttle tells us he is coming from. Tuttle wrote the script while thinking about a fantasy from his own time at middle school: “I really wanted my history teacher to have sex with me,” he says. Cool!
Hank admits he was attracted to the schoolboy version of Aaron. As for why he has brought his old student back into his life, more than a decade later, he says, “I want to know if I still love you.” Eventually, they are seen being physically intimate together.
As a review in Vanity Fair puts it, the topic is especially radioactive “amid the swirling Epstein files saga”, adding, “Its insistence on pushing boundaries is completely at odds with an industry terrified of controversy and scrambling to simply stay afloat.”
Tuttle agrees but also pushes back: “Trump is ushering in this cultural conservatism that I think forces the queer community and gay tastemakers to really present one view of queerness that is kind of immune to critique…and, to me, pretty boring and not in the tradition of being a queer artist…. People are hungry for something that is not so limited by what’s tasteful.”
So far, so good. It sounds as though this director, in his first feature-length film, has made a brave effort to challenge the timidity of both the movie industry and the “respectable” so-called gay community, which often seems even less communally minded and tolerant of difference these days than society at large.
Sadly, though, we are given grounds to suspect that timidity has triumphed in the end. At some point the respectability police have managed to scuttle Tuttle. My guess is that Hank’s firing for “attempted assault” was a late change in the script, because neither the industry nor the two main actors want to risk being associated with a different Hank – a Hank whose relationship with the 12-year-old was one of mutual love rather than assault, “attempted” or otherwise.
The actors, producers and all involved would have surmised that such a scenario would have seen the film tarred as a bid to “legitimise paedophilia”, to a degree that could not plausibly be denied. So, they had to make Hank pretty much a “virtuous” paedophile who strayed only marginally from the straight and narrow, backing off after a rejected pass.
Nevertheless, Blue Film may be worth seeing. Like most indie films, especially controversial ones, it is unlikely ever to reach many (or even any) cinema screens, but we must hope at some point it becomes available for online viewing.
EPSTEIN: AM I MISSING SOMETHING?
Headline in The Times: “Paedophile’s assistant ‘sat on Queen’s throne’ during private tour”.
LOL! Bonkers, isn’t it? It conjures up an alternative reality in which “assistant paedophile” is a routine job you’ll see advertised at your local Jobcentre. Wouldn’t that be interesting?
Of course, it has to be a Jeffrey Epstein story, the “assistant” being a 22-year-old woman who lavished praise on the guy in a birthday book made for him before his fall from grace, saying how he had given her a great time, bringing opportunities she would never otherwise have had, meeting famous people such as Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey, Prince Andrew and Donald Trump – to say nothing of getting to sit in the monarch’s seat at Buckingham Palace.
What struck me about this story, apart from the bizarre headline’s display of the paedophobic, paedomanic lunacy into which the anglophone world has sunk, is that the media must surely be finding it harder and harder to keep insisting Epstein is a monster. Why? Because we are hearing from more and more people who have said behind the scenes what a nice guy he was!
The testimony of this understandably starstruck young woman from an ordinary background is particularly interesting and important because it tells an entirely different story to those of his alleged victims, at least one of whom, Virginia Giuffre, was a proven fantasist at best, while others have stood to gain financially from their narratives of alleged trauma – millions have been paid in compensation to say nothing of media fees for their stories.
What we are also hearing now, though, is similar praise for Epstein from his elite friends, notably Peter Mandelson, recently sacked as the UK’s ambassador to the US, and Sarah Ferguson, Prince Andrew’s former wife. Both of them speak of him with extraordinary warmth, giving us good reason to believe they were speaking from the heart. Unlike the “assistant”, their testimony is also important because they were high status people with no reason to be sycophantic towards him. Yes, they might have been helped by loans from him, but they did not need to grovel or be so effusive.
So far, I have to say, I have seen nothing to suggest that Epstein was anything other than a nice guy. As a socialist, I have no fondness for billionaires, especially those (most of them) who are greedy, mean and go out of their way to dodge taxes. But why is Epstein singled out as a monster? I mean, that young lady we started with, he literally treated her like a queen! I have no idea where this “monster” thing is coming from. Am I missing something?

Children can be systematic problem-solvers at younger ages than psychologists had thought – new research (The Conversation, Oct 3rd, 2025). Excerpted:
Children are not complete dumbasses, basically. They are capable, but if never given the opportunity to show it, you’ll never see it.
Did anyone see this Twitter post about Trans kids in mid September? It got over 30 million views.
The girl’s parents are clearly heavily religious, and long time poster Lox over at the Yesmap Fediverse [thanks for your persistence, everyone], considers parent’s “forcing” religion on their kids to be child abuse.
What do people think?
The Voting Age Should Be ZERO (Jul 28, 2025, Youtube).
For your Sexnetter who mocked this idea; perhaps he can chew on this and evaluate the arguments. With over 200k views on a small channel, there’s clearly a lot of interest.
I’m not even sure I’m down with the idea, so I’ll have to listen sometime and see if I’m convinced!
One of those cop cosplay groups showed up to bully and harass an alleged MAP at a pub in Scotland.
An amazing and brave friend of the MAP, an unidentified woman, dragged the vigilante bitch down the stairs and kicked her, rendering her unconscious.
The lesson learned: MAPs are not always easy targets.
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/paedophile-hunter-allegedly-kicked-unconscious-during-sting-at-pub-5359807
#makebulliesafraidagain
Seriously though, wtf is wrong with these people? I despise neo nazis but I would never go to a pub where Richard Spencer was hanging out to harass him.
I’m just not a violent person, and I don’t see why these dangerous “hunter” types whose actions often lead to physical confrontations should be tolerated. They are bullies, often picking on vulnerable people who are old, autistic, or don’t speak English well. When people get tired of their deranged, violent behavior and finally clap back in self defence, the “hunters” get no sympathy from me…
Aussie Antis, frustrated by a lack of accountability, have angrily republished a 1975 ABC radio doc that sympathetically interviewed pederasts, and it’s fascinating.
https://rumble.com/v709ncc-1975-abc-radio-national-broadcast-titled-pederasty.html
It really is fascinating.
Page made based on Wikipedia: https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Pederasty_(radio_program)
Particularly good quotes to be added shortly, I’m sure. Either by me or someone else. But damn, as I’m listening, I’m amazed by the frankness. Positive testimony coming from the mouth of the former “child,” and an account you can listen to rather than just read.
It’s relatively rare since TikToks and other social media posts tend to get removed, and don’t persist as long as books and scholarship. This radio broadcast reminds me of when NAMBLA founder Tom Reeves and one of his former (now adult) partners “spoke out” at a 1994 conference. These pieces of media are real gems. Incredible glimpses into recent history…
If you ever wonder why people are wary of throwing their hat in the ring to try and temper the performative outrage, see the vagueness of anti-porn law in countries like the UK. In a terrifying case of an idiot hate preacher who, like many Antis naively believes they are safe from the hysteria they propagate, got sentenced to 3 years’ jail and lifetime sex offence registration over images he thought were funny and had no idea were illegal.
You reap what you sow, I guess?? But no, I do feel sorry for this dangerous hate preacher idiot: “extreme porn” laws are literally criminalizing “edgy”, non-normative and kinky sex through the backdoor. His sentence seems disproportionately harsh. I wish the law would just focus on reforming actual rapists who drugged people, or violent people who force someone to have sex. Not all this statutory stuff or people jerking off at home minding their own business, causing harm to nobody. We should, in a Just world, be trying to keep people out of prison, not finding more excuses to put them there!
Do people have any thoughts on the trial of American rapper and producer Sean Combs, better known as “P Diddy”?
As you may have seen, he was found guilty on some counts in a highly publicized trial, but acquitted of other serious counts. As wiki puts it:
This mann guy seems like a real prick.
Regarding the Epstein part of this blog post:
Holy shit are content creators milking the story for all it’s worth. Scarcely a day goes by without a new documentary, news production, or new “revelation” being made about Epstein. Usually, there’s not much regarding evidence of anything criminal, just emails or documents relating to his friends and associates in life.
There’s the now infamous “birthday book,” which journalist Michael Tracey has aptly argued that “If one scans through this dopey book with any measure of objectivity — impossible as that might be for anything Epstein-related — it should immediately become obvious that the overriding (intended) tone is one of humor and spoof.” He adds:
Recently, I saw an email that made the news, with hedge-fund giant Glenn Dubin and his wife, Eva, saying to Jeffrey Epstein’s probation officer they were “100% comfortable” with him being around their kids. At this point, it seems safe to say that many, many people out there, thought that Jeffrey was an upstanding, fun guy, and a safe person to be around.
Do the performative, attention seeking, rage bait posters on Twitter know more about what Jeffrey was like as a person that those who knew him and spent time with him? Somehow, I doubt it!
This summer I read ISBN 139780550103956 where sociologist David V. Barrett described religious anomalies.
I learned that the Church of Satan and the Family of God were not the only cults that praised (paedo)sexual freedom during the sexual revolution of the 1960s–70s.
The Church and school of Wicca founded in 1968 by Gavin and Yvonne Frost “have been criticized by some for appearing to advocate practices that could be considered pedophilic and incestous.” Even American religious Feminism was pedophile-friendly those days!
What happened to these cults in the 1980s can be seen from the example of Branch Davidians with their leader “having married the 14-year-old (and) began sexual relatinships with many of the women (i.e., teens) in his church.”
Nowadays even Satanists claim to be anti-MAP:
Who knows, may be early Christians were not always as anti-sexual as now.
>serial killers or child abusers may claim to be Satanists in order to justify their crimes
Justify their crimes? How exactly does saying you have made a pact with the Devil lessen any guilt? Anyone contemplating this “excuse” needs to talk to a proper defence lawyer!
Finally, this week I offered a passer-by to be my girlfriend, and she escaped. A railway worker saw it and demanded that I “respect people” here. Offering amorous relations in disrespect now!
How about banning schools too, as bullying and shootings happen there. Let’s lock children in cages so that nothing and no one can hurt them [Sarcasm]
In the past “the science” claimed homosexuality was a mental illness. And now they have admitted it was a mistake and the guy they killed, based on laws based on that “science”, is smiling on their banknotes. Tell them this guy also dated 14 year olds boys, and they will dehumanize him a second time.
>In the past “the science” claimed homosexuality was a mental illness.
It’s good you put science in quotes, Harlan, because science as properly understood investigates nature, finding out what the world is really like. It is concerned with facts rather than values.
It thus falls within the scope of science to study the existence and extent of different expressions of sexual mechanisms and behaviours across the whole range of sexually reproducing species, both plant and animal, including homosexuality. Good science reports the facts objectively, not judgmentally.
Medical practice is somewhat different. It makes use of scientific facts, but its purpose is to promote “health”, which is an important but nebulous concept closely related to the philosophical notion of “flourishing”, which is in turn associated with thoughts about what constitutes a good and morally well conducted life.
So, I guess I’m saying blame medical practice, including psychiatry, if you must, for condemning homosexuality in the past. But be wary of throwing the science baby out with the medical/moralistic bathwater.
I understand that, Tom. I used quotation marks intentionally because these hypocrites always refer to Science, parts of which is limited by temporary prejudice. But each time they are sure that now they are right, because current “science” maintenances their current prejudices.
>I understand that, Tom.
Yes, thanks for clarifying.
Damn, you are completely right!!! The massification of science has come with this horrible trend where people draw their own conclusions. But because they put the “it’s science” badge they think it’s incontestable.
It’s the typical correlation-causality trap. And the science that claimed that homosexuality is an illness is an excellent example. So let’s apply the same methodology of the social media studies to homosexuality studies. If we find a correlation between being gay and being more depressive, the conclusion is that it is an illness? Crazy!
Some time ago I had a conversation about prostitution. Same story. There is a study in a Northern European country that finds a correlation between doing prostitution and having mental issues. Her conclusion: we have to forbid prostitution because it’s bad for people. Did she ever consider that maybe those mental issues were, precisely, a result of the stigmas she and many others are promoting?
And it’s always like that. Superficial analyses. Banalisation of science.
>Banalisation of science.
Exactly! Misuse of science, based on misunderstanding it. I must push back against this though, when you say: “And the science that claimed that homosexuality is an illness is an excellent example.”
Science, as I wrote, made no such claim. I think you may have missed my comment, Marco, and my reasoning.
Oh, I now understand what you meant. Thanks for pointing to this. I fell in the mistake of equating what sience is and what scientists and other people make of it.
I should definitely have said “scientists” instead “the science”. Or, “scientists + people interpreting survey results”.
I agree with your view about the essence of science. However, in practical science (AKA papers), the line is blurry, in my opinion. If you look at most surveys, they don’t simply give you the data (AKA the numbers). There is almost always an interpretation of such data towards a general claim. Sometimes the claim is clearly stated, for example, (I’m just making this up): “breastfeeding practices are more driven by culture than it has been thought”. The scientific component of this sentence is likely way weaker than the data it is based on. But I’d say most sociological studies have statements like that. Sometimes, the interpretation of the data is conveyed with language subtleties, unstated assumptions, and omissions.
So, in practical science, I think that studies that make general claims must examine and state the limitations of their methodology. For instance, in my earlier example about the prostitution paper, they should at least clearly state that their methodology is unable to tell if the mental issues are caused inherently by the prostitution itself (whatever that means), or by the social stigmas towards prostitution.
So in real-life science there are different stages of, let’s say, “scientific purity”. Firstly, we have the data, where concerns may arise about the statistical significance, adequate number of participants in surveys, recruiting strategies, etc. There is also the issue that, although we usually put them under the sambe umbrella of “science”, a Mathematical proof is very different from a survey. Then, you have the general claim of the paper or its conclusions, where there may be unstated assumptions or unstated methodological limitations, or where alternative explanations have not been considered. This is added to the fact that a conclusion is a generalization by itself; it’s like looking at a version of a picture with extremely low resolution. Then, we have distortion introduced by the people who read the paper, with their re-interpretations.
And with all this mess of the scientific method and its real-life dynamics, we eventually figure out how reality works and we make sense of it.
Great stuff, Marco! Yes, doing real-life practical science does indeed confront its practitioners with different degrees of “purity”. You have practical knowledge from your own experience, so you know what you are talking about far better than I do.
You mention the impurities, or weaknesses, that often beset “sociological studies”. I agree. There is a great deal of sloppy, low-quality work that manages to get published.
However, my biggest worry is that we now live in an age in which people are becoming hostile towards all science, refusing to believe even its most well-supported findings when they are uncongenial. It is a world in which we run the risk that ignorance and prejudice will totally dominate our politics, thanks to populist demagogues eager to say what people want to hear rather than champion policies grounded in evidence-based reality.
That is why I do my bit to defend science, albeit only when studies are well conducted: all research should be subjected to rigorous scrutiny and critique.
what geniuses do these studies? i have a bit of a hatred for northern european countries like norway and sweden. dotn they ever think that sex , even if paying for it is beneficial? especially for desperate folk like myself ?? well, they may as well ban doing porn as thats a form of prostitution in itself…
Genetics blogger Jayman posted a thread on Twitter/X yesterday, in which he criticized the prevailing narrative on CSA. Of course, just like Aella, he received quite a bit of hate and insults from crybully “survivors” in the comments, which I think is a big part of the reason why many people avoid this taboo subject.
Here’s a screenshot for those of you who don’t have an X account:
https://imgur.com/a/wO4GbXy
Re the screenshot: I am getting this message: “Content not available in your region.” (UK)
Turns out Imgur has recently blocked access to UK users. The UK’s Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) warned Imgur’s parent company, MediaLab, about a potential fine related to children’s data handling. This led Imgur to geoblock the UK from September 30, 2025, preventing UK users from viewing content.
I’ve reuploaded the screenshot to Dropbox. Here’s the link.
Thanks. Jayman is right that trauma cannot be attributed to CSA per se but wrong to downplay trauma arising from events that were experienced as awful at the time, whether that would be rape (i.e. real rape as opposed to “statutory rape”) or physical violence and gross neglect.
I don’t know how he manages to conclude that neglect and other forms of ill-treatment in Romanian orphanages was non-traumatic if we’re thinking of the institutions that were exposed years ago when the dictator Nicolae Ceaușescu was overthrown in 1989. They struck me as very grim places going by coverage at the time – loveless places not much better than Hitler’s concentration camps.
Being a stats man, it is quite possible Jayman is right that some of the children would have been mentally subnormal anyway, and that this has resulted in confounding the effects figures, but the terrible things these kids were subjected to should not be casually downplayed. Such as:
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s%E2%80%931990s_Romanian_orphans_phenomenon
Sounds horrible :(. But I guess it is just how it worked these days in the less developed countries. I’d not be surprised if it still is like that in some countries in Asia or eastern Europe, and sadly, I’d not be surprised if even western countries still haf places like that.
I can certainly recognize the patterns from many movies I’ve seen about institutional care from my own country. People don’t care about kids really – especially disabled or parent-less, they just use them when they see fit.
I agree that trauma from real abuse should never be downplayed or minimized. However, telling children or adults who have experienced sexual or physical violence that they are mentally scarred for life, as is often done nowadays, is unhelpful and likely to cause them unnecessary fear and despair about their future. Society should recognize the trauma and injustice they have endured, while also reassuring them that they have a good chance of fully recovering psychologically in the long run.
Bruce Rind points out in the chapter he wrote for the book Ideological and Political Bias in Psychology that most children who experienced forced CSA go on to achieve complete mental health in adulthood:
Jayman’s claim about Romanian orphanages did strike me as insensitive and I don’t like his wording, but he does make a fair point in bringing attention to the fact that most of the children in Romanian orphanages belong to the Roma ethnic group. This seems to be often overlooked by researchers. For example, this study compared the cognitive abilities of children who grew up in Romanian orphanages with those of children from British orphanages, most of whom are not Roma. It would make more sense for the control group to consist of non-orphaned Roma children rather than British children.
Yes, evidence of children’s resilience in the face of adversity is good news, giving every reason to believe that suffering in early childhood does not necessarily mean they will be scarred for life. Giving adults with a background of early abuse the message that they are inevitably “damaged goods” does nothing to help them and can be harmful if they take the message to heart.
It’s probably best for disinterested professionals to make this point, though, rather than MAP activists. Coming from us, it can all too easily sound as though we say saying it’s OK to rape kids because they’ll get over it! We thus need to be clear and constant about the distinction between real rape (forced/coerced/horrible) and “statutory rape” (willing partner/enjoyed at the time/rape in name only). The same consent-based principle applies to other sex acts as well i.e. those not legally defined as rape.
>Jayman’s claim about Romanian orphanages did strike me as insensitive and I don’t like his wording
I agree. His wording looked suspiciously like a casual racist claim that the Roma are genetically inferior. He seemed to be saying they are subnormal to start with so the orphanages can’t be blamed for making them so. This is a serious point, not least because there is a lot of writing out there that makes such claims about the Roma.
I second that.
Yes, and I would add that when people make comments like “so disgusting!” when they hear about child sexual abuses, that’s not helpful either, since this re-victimizes them. And it is disrespectful both to the people who have suffered, and to their friends and relatives. If I see a child injured in Gaza, I would not say “so disgusting!”, especially if I am in front of other Palestinians, less so in front of the injured child!
Here are some news for the last four months:
>The [Hungarian] government punishes [gay] pride but covers and excuses paedophiles”
We hear about Hungary’s anti-gay stance but as for “covers and excuses paedophiles”, whatever do they mean? Sounds interesting, if unlikely.
There was an abuse crisis in Hungary, this must be what they are referring to.
Ah, right. So much going on, so much news! Hard to keep up!
From Agatha Christie’s Authobiography:
https://nibmehub.com/opac-service/pdf/read/agahta%20christie%20_%20an%20autobiography.pdf
Nice discovery, Cyril! Thanks for sharing.
I may quote you the same memoirs by actors Ivar Kalnynch and Michael Kozakov, but Fellini’s memoirs are the most erotic. From I, Fellini:
From Making a film:
Federico Fellini was clearly an excellent writer as well as a distinguished film director!
LA Times Bombshell: In the biggest sex abuse settlement in U.S. history, some claim they were paid to sue
Many of you who follow the news will be aware of the UK’s Online Safety Act coming into effect, and similar legislation in other brain broken countries like Australia.
I was wondering if and when we’d see criticism in scholarship, and here it is:
Petley, J. (2025). Porn and the OSA: what about the children? Porn Studies, 12(3), 362–386. https://doi.org/10.1080/23268743.2025.2476961
And: Petley, J. (2025). Forget about the children: the right-wing backlash against the Online Safety Act. Porn Studies, 1–6. https://doi.org/10.1080/23268743.2025.2553646
The first is open access and the second, unfortunately not. These come from a very senior scholar, and an educated Left-winger, which I’m happy to see.
Hopefully, they’ll be useful.
Hi,
I saw all your recent work on Wiki. It was wonderful! It’s not every day that the site receives so much new content like this.
Without wanting to overstep, since you published about the War On Sex, have you read or considered creating an article on Hatred of Sex (2022)? It’s a book that discusses topics adjacent to attraction to minors, especially about the ideologies and clinical practices developed around relationships between adults and children. The authors discuss a lot about this new regime around sexual trauma from a psychoanalytic perspective— which seems to me a more appropriate and sensitive approach to particular sexual experiences than a single ideology that almost disciplinarily claims certain interactions are abusive, and from that, leads to the conclusion that trauma is inevitable, intense, and pervasive.
I also saw that you are creating pages about literary critics. Do you have plans to create one for Leo Bersani in the future? I haven’t had the capacity to delve into his work or that of Lee Edelman, but I see a certain potential in their work.
I would also add D&G to this list, but I think that would require more work to conceptualize—if that’s even possible or just something potential— their work from a MAP perspective. I’m not sure if a next valid step for the community, from a theoretical standpoint, would be to begin imagining a “MAP ethics” or to try reproducing through art and other cultural expressions new ways of life that make relationships between adults and children a possible reality, escaping the repressive control of institutions.
Lastly, I also saw that you have a background in social history and study the history of the homosexual movement. I want to ask if you see any parallels between supportive homosexual movements (by support, I mean the creation of communities where members seek to support each other and share experiences) and any representation or initiatives within the current MAP movement, and whether you see the possibility of creating groups to support MAP peers in difficult situations or in societies with almost no MAP representation (for example, outside of Anglo-speaking countries and providing support to MAPs who may be serving sentences, for instance).
If you made it this far, thank you very much 🙂
Thanks, Nicholas, for this interesting and informative comment. It is addressed to Prue but on my own behalf as convenor/moderator here, I’d like to welcome your engagement.
Looking up Hatred of Sex, I see the authors contend that sex is hated “because sexual intensity impedes coherent selfhood and undermines identity, rendering us all a little more deplorable than we might wish”. I don’t know what they mean by “impedes coherent selfhood and undermines identity” but there is no denying that sexuality can be extremely intense and that this can be “problematic” as the euphemism du jour has it: “mate competition” often results in deplorable behaviour. According to a major paleo-anthropological study in Nature a few years ago, murderous fights between individual rivals over women were a bigger cause of violent death among humans than war for most of our evolutionary history.
We hear of some such rivalries over boys in the heyday of pederasty in ancient Greece but to the extent that those of us with a sexual preference for children are a small minority, the intensity issue would barely seem to arise. Plenty of lovely kids to go around! No need to fight over them! No pressure to be “more deplorable than we might wish”! 🙂 The rules of a hostile society put the mockers on that scenario, of course, but we can dream – or work towards change! And at least the normies now have lots of fantastic porn for the relief of their “intensity” problems. May not work for resolving love triangles and the agonies of unrequited love, but it’s a start.
Warning: Long response incoming! :p
Hi there Nicholas, sorry for my slow reply! And I’m glad you liked the pages! My Newgon User Page has lots of links, in case you want to read more… Did you see my recent additions to the LGBT history page? Super interesting imo!
I discovered that “the publications of Friedrich Radszuweit, the leader of Germany’s first mass homosexual organization (the League for Human Rights), included images of male youths,” [putting it mildly], and that Adolf Brand, an Anarchist and publisher of the very first gay journal Der Eigene, also published the first gay poetry anthology – with both publications viewing man/boy relations positively. I also discovered a PhD student who’s written a well evidenced and non-stigmatizing history of the NAMBLA / ILGA controversy, which I linked in various places as: Tyler Carson (Rutgers University, PhD) The International Lesbian and Gay Association’s Suspension from the United Nations, 1993-1994, (2024/2025, Out History).
Onto your questions:
Yes, I’ve heard of Hatred of Sex (2022), though I won’t be reading it myself anytime soon. On the flipside, here’s a review of the book written for the Percy Foundation, which has some critical thoughts on the book’s arguments in relation to MAPs, age of consent laws, etc. To quote the piece:
Leo Bersani, Deleuze and Guattari? I’ve read bits of each, but to my knowledge only D&G ever said anything overtly sympathetic about pedophilia, age gap sex, etc. It was the Leftist anti-fascist Guattari, I believe, who compared the treatment of MAPs in his day to the past treatment of Jews by the Nazis. When I looked into this years ago, I didn’t feel there was enough there to warrant a page on them at the time. Especially so, because I have never gotten access to the famous Recherches journal special issue, from 1973, edited by Guattari and titled “Three Billion Perverts” (“Trois milliards de pervers”). This publication, as described by queer historian Kadji Amin in his Disturbing Attachments book,
Last time I checked, this issue was the only one not available to view on the official archive website… If anyone can find an archive of this document, a translation of the text, or has access to a relevant university archive and wants to take a day trip to photograph the doc, you could publish it to Libgen / Annas Archive for all to see.
That’d be a great service to the world, and would help add material and evidence for wider discussions of ‘radical’ sexual liberation thought and arguments within French philosophy, critical theory and queer theory. Another relevant French text would be Philippe Sollers’ L’infini magazine, which published Retour en enfance: La question pédophile (Back to childhood: The pedophile question), in Collection Revue L’Infini (no.59) Gallimard (Autumn, 1997), intended to be “far from the climate of lynching and generalized right-[wing?] thinking.”
I’ve read Bersani’s famous “Is the Rectum a Grave?” essay, and although it’s possible and plausible that Bersani’s work says ‘edgy’ or reasonable things about pederasty in gay history, I’ve not seen anything especially noteworthy. I certainly could look into it, download PDFs of his books and articles, and search keywords…
I am pretty sure that Roland Barthes, one of the people responsible for giving the “out” MAP Tony Duvert a literary award, and a signatory one the French anti age of consent law petitions, probably had ‘heretical’ thoughts. Wordsearching his writings could prove fruitful… Though, if you or anyone else has quotes from these figures handy, feel free to post them :p …
>Well, there are definitely parallels between the LGBT movement and MAP Movement, with many people using Harris Mirkin’s article on “The Pattern of Sexual Politics” (1999) [IPCE ver.] to argue that we’re in the 1st stage of any such movement – “The battle to prevent the battle” – if that. Another major, more recent comparative piece comes from gay historian David F. Greenberg, from his chapter in Censoring Sex Research: The Debate over Male Intergenerational Relations (2013).
From the vantage point of 2025, we can now argue that the internet, social media, and the move from text and physical media to visual and digital media, is the biggest difference between LGBTQ(P) then and MAPs now. The internet is a place of great possibility and potential, giving creators, companies, etc., the capacity to reach millions and pummel them with media 24/7, without the need for pesky journalistic or broadcasting standards that came with traditional media. It’s great for spreading a message, but limited by the platforms themselves which are ultimately businesses and want to avoid lawsuits, negative press, and keep users active on their services.
In the Mattachine Era of early Homo rights, members were told not to hold hands as they arrived: anyone next to them could be a FED. Bathroom stalls got raided by the cops, vigilantes organized and went “gay bashing,” hunting the gays for sport. It really was that bad: the parallels to MAPs are blindingly obvious…
I’m confident that if the 1950s era stigma around gayness were transplanted to the internet age, gays would be treated exactly like MAPs are today. Called “faggots,” “sick,” “perverts,” etc., – only this time they’d have their accounts blocked, banned, reported, and maybe even be doxxed and investigated by police. Their websites would be taken down and tons of performative “holier than thou” grifters would make content portraying them as dangerous deviants.
Adult-adult gays made progress partly because print culture was far more underground; much harder to prohibit, police, and censor. Digital content, not so…
As far as “creating groups to support MAPs” goes, including in non-Western countries, it’s possible but takes dedication, a lifestyle or means of income making organizing possible, and a willingness to be polarizing. Beyond the Plus is quite bravely trying focus on forming in-person connections in America. Support organizations around mental health such as B4U-ACT, or the OnwardWell Foundation (whose Executive Director is incredibly sympathetic and recently spoke at B4U-ACT), also have the secondary function of bringing people together IRL…
In Japan, the obvious rallying cry would be artistic freedom and manga and anime, which are constantly under threat of censorship and criminalization. This would be a great thing to organize around, having widespread appeal and the advantage of plausible (and legitimate) deniability. You don’t have to be a “MAP organisation,” but the hard part is that whatever you do, it will impact your sense of self, change your life and impact you emotionally.
It all depends on your own situation, and I would just advise people to ensure they are legally safe before they get involved IRL, and be well-aware that you’ll likely get lots of backlash and negative comments / messages if you or your org. gain any meaningful traction.
You can’t do or focus on everything, so pick a wedge issue that’s important to you, and see if you can join a relevant org. or start your own. There are tons of routes you could go down, from becoming a content creator, starting a media production company, or founding an NGO or non-profit. What’s your goal? Do you want mass influence? Or, to have a quieter, on-the-ground presence, like many charities that work to help ex-offenders re-integrate post-conviction? There are people making consistent effort, like the Youtuber Common Sense Laws, who helps ex-offenders “flee” the United States for Germany.
The world is your oyster when it comes to making a difference, but like every life, job, etc., it’ll come with unique joys, challenges and hardships…
An immensely informative and useful comment from Prue, as we have come to expect, but on this occasion, I will add a note of caution.
Prue writes, “This erotic and, indeed, pornographic frankness is likely why Guattari was found guilty, as the editor, of affronting public decency”, then adds, in relation to a chapter by Guattari, “If anyone can find an archive of this document, a translation of the text, or has access to a relevant university archive and wants to take a day trip to photograph the doc, you could publish it to Libgen / Annas Archive for all to see.”
Guattari’s punishment for “affronting public decency” was a fine. These days he might well have been put behind bars in many jurisdictions around the world, so any exercise in publishing this document more widely could come at considerable risk, even though it may well be accessible in a university library.
Don’t forget the potential for “two-tier justice” in this area. In 2002, I ended up in prison for possession of just four images, none of which were more “indecent” than images of a similar type (by photographer Tierney Gearon) that had been on public display in a major exhibition at that time in the Saatchi Gallery, London.
Police had ordered the gallery to remove two photographs from display or face prosecution. Eventually, though, they were told by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) that there was no realistic prospect of a conviction under the Protection of Children Act 1978.
What the CPS were covertly saying was that a jury would be unlikely to convict in the case of an exhibit at a “respectable” art gallery but that did not mean they would rule out a prosecution if the same photos had been in the possession of a MAP activist. Juries are supposed to judge impartially, based on the images alone. In practice, though, experienced lawyers know that cases can turn on who you are, not what you have.
A very fair note of caution, Tom. It is difficult to know what kind of pictures or illustrations Guattari had included which got him in trouble. Images I saw that have been reproduced publicly included a woman masturbating anally, and a drawing of a french police officer with no trousers having his asshole on display.
I’m not sure what other illustrations or photographs would be included that could “affront public deceny” in France, 1973. Taking the piss out of cops, portraying them as homos, might itself have pissed off the authorities.
But yes, you’re right to note caution, there could well be some risqué drawings or photos relating to the young ones. They were French, and it was 1973 after all!!
If anyone does get ahold of it, then the best thing to do would be to focus on getting the text out there, especially the apparently still unavailable/censored chapter on “pedophilia.”
———————————
For good measure, here’s the photographer Gearon you mentioned, defending her photos of her young children: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2001/mar/13/childprotection
She doesn’t see them as sexual / erotic photos, basically. She’s seeing them through her eyes, the teiliophilic gaze, and not the imagined pedophile’s desire that the cops are imagining, which academia has dubbed the “paedophilic gaze.”
Interestingly, Gearon argues for the innocence of her children, but also writes that
All I can say is: I’m glad I’m not a family photographer!!
It is refreshing to read those calls for action you wrote. You point out realistic caveats but it feels very optimistic. Let’s not panic. We can do a lot of stuff.
A suggestion to readers who are approached by a “minor” of social or dating media:
This, or at least a shortened version of it, is how I ultimately deal with “minors” on Grindr. I tell them flatly, they are in effect incriminating me, and I can no longer deal with them for that reason.
Remember, the prime objective of a decoy is to get “travelers” as they say in the trade. These are the low-hanging fruit who agree to meet for SEXUAL purposes and agree to TRAVEL or MEET in some way.
A SECONDARY objective (but lower in priority) is to establish you have involved a minor in INAPPROPRIATE conversation. So be clear on your side – the communication is non-sexual in nature. If they try to involve you in this type of conversation, this is entirely a thing of their own choosing, and you will not be a part of it.
On an unrelated note, here is a recent article I wrote on antis who kill their own children.
>On an unrelated note, here is a recent article I wrote on antis who kill their own children.
Wow! Strong stuff. Horrible, and revealing.
I read this and thought no way could any online exchange continue to proceed along such lines without becoming hopelessly self-parodic, chaotic and quite hopeless.i try to out the list of advisories together to form a coherent plan-of-action but cannot. Any ostensible goal long since left the building
Could anyone provide a sample of such a dialogue without falling to pieces laughing ?
Am i wrong as an owl in a treetop on this score or what, Strat?
> Much respect to you Strat, as always, but the best response if approached is to not reply and delete / block the supposed “minor.”
If you’re on a dating site and god forbid a hot 25-year-old you’re messaging suddenly says she’s actually 15, imo you should get the hell outta there and not reply in any way. From my memory of reading sex offence expert Emily Horowitz, in some States in the United States, it is an offence in-itself to continue a conversation that has any sexual component, after that person has claimed they are “a minor.” Once that person claims to be underage, any reply you make, whether it’s just “so what the fuck are you messaging me for?“, can be construed as an attempt to continue “a sexual conversation with a child.”
In her book Protecting Our Kids?: How Sex Offender Laws Are Failing Us, Horowitz discusses the terrifying case of a man who was preyed upon through the website “Adult Friend Finder,” and naively continued a conversation out of curiosity and paid dearly for it.
To anyone reading: do not be like this man. Protect yourself.
I can’t verify the case in the book, but I would strongly suspect the man continued the conversation with a law enforcement/decoy in a way that left no doubt he believed the decoy was real, and also participated in inappropriate communication.
This would be a bare minimum, and it is true that some of these law enforcement operations have prosecuted men who never travelled or agreed to meet, especially when few of the other men are complying with the operation as intended.
There is of course the question of who is actually the decoy? In a recent UK case, a woman was convicted for sending obscene communications, despite claiming to be a decoy performing the “age-switch” hoax. It is indeed true that for a civilian to run a successful decoy operation, they must in effect produce and disseminate obscene material – that is, “child pornography” of some sort.
There is also the question of police ethics in all of this.
In multiple recent cases, law-enforcement officers have pretended to be adults who are either selling or offering their “child” for free to suspected “pedophiles”. This begs a very important question: When a person interacts with such a decoy, but choses not to believe or go along with the “available child” hoax, are law enforcement offering appropriate aftercare to those individuals to diffuse the confected impression that a child might be available for sex via their own parents?
If not so, it could be argued (very strongly IMO) that law enforcement are in fact complicit in promoting the idea that children (often very young, preteens) can be sought by sex offenders via contact with their parents, and encouraging the demand side of that behaviour. Far from putting criminals behind bars, this would be putting real children in danger by creating demand.
I’d like to investigate the idea of FOI-ing some police departments or bodies with oversight on these matters.
To my understanding, this cannot be done in European countries, since it would be considered that it constitutes an incitement to commit a crime. In US/UK I would not be surprised that they don’t give a damn about this principle.
Tom, among Anglo SexNet’s modern scholars, Bailey, Blanchard et al, after all these years still agonizing in denial over juvenile sexuality. Surely someone has noted centuries of natural minors in brutal boarding schools and elsewhere Worldwide healthy WANKING over imagination and images of HOT adults also seen daily in modern hypocrite Anglo ‘Family’ media. And now Worldwide unstoppable Gen Selfie-Sext shares healthy sexual images of adults and themselves.
While horrific War Porn of children daily devastated and destroyed, is Anglo fake media for profit not demonized but normalized 24/7 free to air for all ages – WTF?!.
Minors not sexual until the arrogant Anglo ‘disordered’ DSM declares it! “Get the fuck outta here d’ya hear?!”
Quote, adult Anglo (Celtic/Pagan heritage) late great ‘Love Magnet’ dry-wit Lennon asked what he thought of the Beatles constantly chased by young girls, “I think it’s terrible. Backstage and in bedrooms it’s like Fellini’s ‘Satyricon’ (writhing bodies everywhere.”
Since year dot, no one can stop juvenile happy pups humping.
https://www.google.com/search?q=+masturbation+in+english+single+sex+boarding+schools&/
Pup, you wrote:
>Tom, among Anglo SexNet’s modern scholars, Bailey, Blanchard et al, after all these years still agonizing in denial over juvenile sexuality.
I don’t think you’ll find Bailey or Blanchard in denial over it. They could probably be called fairly conservative on social policy, which is fine by me as long as they are prepared to face facts, which I believe they are. I have never had a problem with either of them on that score and I have learned a lot from them. Bailey, especially, has championed Rind’s work, which famously came up with strong evidence showing kids are not harmed by willing involvement in sex with adults.
It’s hard to tell the views of most Sexnetters. There are over 400 of us but, as with any forum, there are many who never post. Probably no more than 10% are regular posters. Among those who do post, there is a mixture of conservative and liberal voices, but even that is hard to tell because most of the posts are factual and technical (concerning different statistical methods, for instance), addressed to the contents and merits, or otherwise, of particular research studies.
As you will see if I can get around to it tonight, there has been further discussion of the Bhana and Lucke child sexuality paper on Sexnet since I last posted about it, this time with a very positive contribution from a leading researcher.
Thanks for your prompt reply Tom.
Still, in 25% done Century 21 how much more evidence is needed of Worldwide HORNY minors including AAMs HOT for healthy sex, offline and online? Millions of unstoppable minors sharing healthy sex pleasure and images of sexual pleasure with adults and each other.
Yet only backward neo-Victorian Anglos still demonize and criminalize such healthy natural pleasure since year dot as ‘HARMFUL’. While perversely normalizing HORRIFIC War Porn 24/7 for profit from children bloodied, devastated, and destroyed in searing pain, free to air for all-ages;
Suggest a new perverse blog, “WarNet – no sex or sense please we’re Anglos”.
An article about political violence:
https://www.brianribbon.com/home/the-unfortunate-inevitability-of-political-violence
Bhana, D., & Lucke, S. (2025). Childhood Sexualities: On Pleasure and Meaning from the Margins. Sex & Sexualities, 0(0). https://doi.org/10.1177/30333717251375994
Abstract
Three very informative posts today, Prue. Great stuff!
I downloaded the childhood sexuality paper by Bhana & Lucke a week ago after someone posted it on Sexnet. Only just got around to reading it, today. Very interesting. Good stuff.
The initial response from a couple of other Sexnetters was dismissive, though, apparently without them reading anything beyond the Abstract. One of them was simply not prepared to entertain the idea of children being ready for sexual expression. This was his sarcastic comment in full:
I found this shocking because this commentator, as a veteran cultural anthropologist of some distinction, would be well aware of the more positive view of children’s sexuality that is taken in many cultures outside the WEIRD developed world. However, this guy is best known for his work among an Amazonian tribe, the Yanomamo, who are said to be among the world’s most violent and cynically treacherous warriors. They have a reputation for murdering the children of the tribes they raid. Not the best setting, I’d have thought, to see much evidence of sexual pleasure (or any other kind of pleasure) being encouraged in childhood!
The other dismissive reaction was from a psychology professor expressing a dim view of the approach taken. He wrote:
This one was disappointing because the guy in question is usually very sex-positive and has also been pleasant and appreciative as regards my contributions to the forum.
Unfortunately, I was too slow off the mark to read the paper myself and comment immediately but Richard Kramer, Education Director of B4U-ACT, stepped into the breach with a splendid post of his own. His comment is worth quoting in full:
Kramer had the good sense to talk in the language Sexnetters understand, emphasising “science” rather than “activism” in research. But I like his spirited bit at the end, saying at least “the postmodernists” are having a go, stepping in where science largely refuses to go.
Now I have read the paper myself I am pondering whether to dive in and defend the approach it has taken. Not that it will do much good. SN is a tough gig!
Regarding the issue of voting and driving a car, you should inform that cultural anthropologist that you (and probably himself) were born with a willie, and not a steering wheel, between your legs.
LOL! Good one, SB!
However, in Norway they’ll tell you their kids are born with skis on their feet! It’s absolutely true. Well, true that they say it. If it’s really true, then giving birth must be even more painful than for mums elsewhere! 🙂
Well, you you could also formulate the concept as a questionnaire for the cultural anthropologist:
***********
You said “And children should be able to drink, drive, and vote as well”.
Please answer: What did nature provide you with, between your legs, when you were born?
***********
Apparently, even people of culture are so conditioned by the dominant morality that they by default compare human sexuality to non-natural actions…
To me, the most disturbing fact is that despite all the social problems linked to alcohol (from absurd fights leading to irreversible injuries, to fatal car accidents, to domestic violence against women and children, to sexually abusive behaviors that are later painfully regretted, etc etc etc), no one ever dares to forbid alcohol to adults!
>no one ever dares to forbid alcohol to adults!
They tried to do that in the US a century ago. Didn’t work!
Thanks for this clever idea, SB. As you say, it would have been a great way of responding to the anthropologist.
Unfortunately, though, the right time has long since come and gone. Some responses can usefully be made days or even weeks after the original comment, after taking time for thought and study.
Witty contributions like yours, though, need to be quite immediate, otherwise they fall flat.
More fortunately, as you will see from another of my posts today, I was able to use part of Marco’s post on the subject, which elicited a very positive response on Sexnet.
Alcohol is bad for health, and it can lead to dangerous or violent behaviour. A motor vehicle is a dangerous object, driving it can cause severe injuries, and many people die from it every year. Of courses, the underlying logic of the argument is that sex is bad for health and dangerous.
As for voting, at age 9 a son of one of my nieces was very interested in politics, and he stated what were his two favourite political parties.
if it wasnt for alcohol id have no experience with females at all. but , with all the prejudice in the world it made me drink more and now im fucked. yeh, driving is not dangerous, they let
chidren
do it ! i despair. in america even a bare butt is considered dangerous. guns, no siree!My thoughts…
Overall, great scholarly article. Not too long. Well referenced. Straight to the point. Sticking to a single, clear, and understandable idea: sexual pleasure of children is systematically ignored in scholarly work.
Now, the observations stated in the article are to the point, but it inexplicably misses on the fundamental reason why we should care about child sexuality. Spoiler: it’s not the pleasure. It’s the impact on dignity!! The authors are right that children are being treated as objects all the time, and that their inner feelings are systematically repressed (by what people say and by what people don’t say). It follows, then, that their dignity is severely impacted as individuals. If repressing an adult is unacceptable and inhuman, what the hell makes people think that it will feel okay to children to be repressed? I am suprised that the word ‘dignity’ doesn’t even appear in the text. I think that the focus on pleasure in the article makes people misunderstand where the importance of child sexuality comes from (like in the comment Tom quoted from Sexnet).
I insist: Pleasure is quite important, but dignity is absolutely fundamental!!! Otherwise, without this clarification, it is impossible to understand the key underlying differences between the restrictions on alcohol and the restrictions on sex. Forbidding a child from taking alcohol may feel annoying to them but does not impact their dignity (no matter how much “pleasure” can be obtained from alcohol), whereas forbidding to have sexual contact has an enormous impact on the ego. This is because of the significance that sexuality has in us. When the concept of dignity is understood, then it becomes clear that we can’t prevent children from having sex simply because there is a risk of abuse.
And another detail. I read at the top “research article”, but I don’t consider it as such, since it doesn’t have the property of reproducibility and it doesn’t establish a methodology beforehand. My comment is general to all such kind of sociological articles. If they had done a literature survey about how many articles say X and how many say Y, then yes it would be research. Don’t take me wrong. My comment doesn’t take out the fact that such philosophy-oriented articles are extremely valuable, and this one is especially insightful. One thing I like about it is that it is not cumbersome with too much sociologic jargon or complicated arguments. The whole article is the development of a single idea. It is a useful article since it explains how research on child&sex has focused on risks and abuses, whereas the dimension of pleasure has been ignored (the same could be said about news articles, but that would merit another comment).
Anyway, interesting read!
Great stuff, Marco! I hope you won’t mind but I thought some bits of this would go down well on Sexnet, so with a bit of editing I posted an excerpt from it there, explaining that it had reached me from “a friend” who, unlike me, has serious scientific credentials. I included your point that the Bhana and Lucke article’s focus solely on pleasure tends to trivialise child sexuality. I left out your discussion of “dignity” though. What you said was important, but I think the argument would need to be developed considerably further to be convincing, as counterarguments easily come to mind.
The result was good. A world-leading researcher posted saying he agrees with you, adding a lot of positive things on his own account. This researcher, who is a neurobiologist and a former President of the International Academy of Sex Research, wrote as follows:
There’s considerably more after this, including reflections of a wider nature that he might prefer not to be republished outside Sexnet without his permission. This further contribution is very interesting, but discretion tells me to stop here.
As for his questions about when sexology stopped studying the psychosexual development of children, I guess he was addressing them to the whole of Sexnet, not just me. No one has answered yet, though, so I might have a go at this tomorrow: I had an academic paper published on this theme a couple of years ago.
Interesting crossing of messages around the world 🙂
It would be interesting to quantify the above statement. Like searching words like ‘abuse’ and ‘pleasure’ on papers that contain the word ‘child’ and building a timeline graph.
The days of the Kinsey Report are getting far, aren’t they?
>Interesting crossing of messages around the world
Yes, and today I’ll have to play postman again because Richard Kramer has just posted a great response to the post I was talking about by the neurobiologist; or, rather, to a part of that post that I did not publish, in which he interestingly talked about the current very loose use of the terms “paedophilia” and “abuse”.
Kramer replied:
Glad to hear that there are places beyond the MAP niche where there is criticism over all that panic on child sexuality, with such nuanced thoughtful comments.
Indeed, the term ‘abuse’ has been… well… abused of.
Time ago, I found myself in a conversation where a woman said something about the pedophiles and I asked her to clarify the definition of such term. She immediately asked me “What do you mean?! That’s wrong!”, while opening her eyes like two burning oranges. We got to a point where people expect you to blindly condemn words, regardless of their meaning.
while ignoring things like taking them up dangerous mountains. yes, take your 5 year olds up crib goch! but god forbid you take photo of someone who is 6,573 days old.
>take your 5 year olds up crib goch!
I went up Crib Goch when I was in my twenties. Pretty damn scary!
Im lucky i live near the mountains its great to get away from the bullshit. No crib goch though for me… But yeh weird usnt it you got 13 year olds climbing el capitan but they are deemed incapable if anything else..
Amazing that this paper has generated so much discourse!
Pedro Pinto and Catriona Macleod, A Genealogy of Puberty Science : Monsters, Abnormals, and Everyone Else (Routledge, 2019).
I’ve linked this book on a few Newgon pages because it seems pretty important. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a detailed deconstruction, critical questioning, of the concept of “puberty” itself. So this at least sounds particularly unique and welcome.
Noticed I’d linked to queer theorists who had positive things to say but none of them were on Newgon. Have now updated links on pages like Queer and Queer Theory, and made profiles for:
I also made a page for the 2017 book The War on Sex, edited by David M. Halperin, and Trevor Hoppe. A great book with contributions from Judith Levine, Scott De Orio, and Roger Lancaster, with an introduction written by Halperin, who is a huge name in the world of queer theory.
As a classicist whose writings frequently discuss pederasty or “Greek Love” (his terms), Halperin is the co-founder of GLQ: A Journal of Lesbian and Gay Studies, is old enough to have known what it means to be part of the despised, and wrote the most influential definition of “Queer” which he deliberately formulated to be inclusive of you lot:
Epstein is on everybody’s lips!
A statue featuring Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein recently appeared outside the U.S. Capitol, depicting the two holding hands. The statue was removed shortly after its installation, leading to controversy regarding its message and the relationship between the two figures.
Meanwhile, the satirical news outlet The Onion, has apparently made its own Epstein Mockumentary. Titled “Bad Pedophile,” there’s a trailer and a poster claiming it’ll be shown in select cinemas in early October…
Last but not least, Prince Andrew’s ex-wife, the Duchess of York Sarah Ferguson, has been dropped by children’s charities she’d worked with. This follows apparent revelations that she maintained a private friendship with Epstein after disingenuously / performatively condemning him to the public. Reportedly, she wrote:
Indeed, in everybody’s lips.
I know I will simplify a bit, but I think this is a move from left/libertarian movements, often accused to support immoral sexual behaviors. So Epstein is a juicy pray to use against the most prominent figures of the right/royalty. And, boy, they will make it last as much as they can. Too juicy.
And while everybody is super busy speaking about Epstein, nobody speaks about juvenile sexuality.
Disagree completely. The reason Epstein is a salient issue is because the GOP ran on releasing the list. They accused ‘the elites’ of a coverup and a conspiracy to protect “pedophiles”. The Epstein list was a core issue for the Trump campaign, not the left. This only shifted once it became politically uncomfortable for Trump to release the Epstein files. I agree that juvenile sexuality is ignored by both sides.
I am probably missing an important chunk of North American politics, because I don’t get it. If Trump himself had been so friends with Epstein, why would he want to campaign for releasing the list?
Maybe he did what you mention about running on releasing the list just to promote conspiracy theories *before* the election, to trigger people’s rebellion feelings and vote for him and the ‘head of the rebels’. He was probably aware that this could potentially put him in trouble *afterwards*, but who cares! As long as he eventually gets elected… Maybe he thought “If I eventually get elected and people ask to release the list, I’ll just make up something.”
Okay. It looks like now the situation has reversed.
What you said explains why it has been a core issue during the campaign, and how GOP wanted to exploit this issue. I am trying to understand why the anti-Trump are exploiting this topic so much to become a core issue.
Why wouldn’t they exploit it? If the GOP runs on releasing the Epstein files and then backtracks on this promise when it becomes politically damaging, why wouldn’t the Democrats make an issue about this? It would be political malpractice if they didn’t. Especially since Republicans have been accusing Democrats of being involved in the Epstein coverup.
Of course the entire thing is just tiresome “pedophilia” moral panic, but I really don’t think the left is to blame.
>If the GOP runs on releasing the Epstein files
Is it the GOP, or just the MAGA element of the GOP? The two are not synonymous, are they? MAGA propelled Trump to power but they seem to be in tension with the old GOP elite. The MAGA folks want to expose what they see as an elite Epstein conspiracy but the elite (including Trump himself and the likes of Elon Musk — who backed Trump) want to close it down because of their involvement.
Yes.
Indeed.
Well, since I observe that I am more leftist than rightist, my moral rectitude expectations about left parties are higher. So of course my opinion is biased by that. I am disappointed that so much time is spent in conspiracies and counter-conspiracies, accusations and counter-accusations, re-ignition of moral panics, mediatisation of the already-mediatised, and so on… that we, as a society, never sit to talk about this topic in a serious way (except in forums like this one). My expectations about the left (assuming that Dems are the left, which I am aware is a huge simplification of reality) is that they do something to stop this vicious circle. They are not. They are going to exorcize the spectre over and over.
To break this vicious circle, a third party is needed to expose hypocrisy of both sides and political flirtation with fictitious “conspiracies” and moral panic. As long as there are two of them, they will blame each other, forcing observers to take one side while remaining in a black and white world.
Indeed, Harlan. That’s why I don’t expect a sexual revolution to come from the US, in this day and age, although I might be wrong.
Everything you need to know about politically correct dictatorship. People are simply being hypocritical out of fear for their careers.
Softly, As I Leave You: Life After Elvis (Hardcover – September 23, 2025)
A new book from the “King of Rock and Roll” Elvis Presley’s now 80-year-old wife, Priscilla, who met Elvis when she was 14…
As quoted on MU [thanks to everyone who posts there!]:
Refuted? Really? Surely noone in the public eye would do that?? I do wonder what the film with cailee spaeny portrays .. cailee spaeny us quite hot. For an old woman 🙂
It’s likely that Priscilla simply wants to make her story as relatable as possible to a broad audience and feels that this requires denying she had sex with Elvis while underage. I would recommend reading the book *Child Bride: The Untold Story of Priscilla Beaulieu Presley by Suzanne Finstad.
In the book, Finstad cites Wes Bryan and Currie Grant recalling that Paul Beaulieu phoned Elvis at Graceland around Thanksgiving 1966 and threatened him:
Finstad describes the marriage as effectively arranged between Elvis and the Beaulieus:
Currie Grant and his girlfriend Carrol were the ones who introduced Priscilla to Elvis and witnessed their first date, though others were also present. They claim that after spending some time talking in the living room, Elvis took Priscilla to his bedroom, where they stayed for about four hours, until after midnight:
Priscilla has gone out of her way to deny Currie Grant’s claims, including his allegation that she slept with him to persuade him to introduce her to Elvis. She sued him in the 1980s and won, but there was reportedly a secret settlement that resulted in the judgment being voided and her paying Grant instead of the other way around. She claimed that she had a falling out with Grant while in Germany and that he lied when he said he was the one who drove them to the airport when Elvis left Germany in 1960s. However, photographic evidence later surfaced showing Grant driving them to the airport. So clearly, Priscilla is not always a reliable narrator.
>Wow, thank you for all this, Kyoko, you’ve clearly done your research!
Perhaps you’d be interested in summing up your findings for a Newgon page on Elvis? If so, ask the Strategist / Jim and give it a try!
Adriana Placani, Anthropomorphism in AI: hype and fallacy, AI and Ethics (2024).
As PorcelainLark says when posting this study,
Fascinating that you were involved in ILGA, Marco. Also fascinating that, in your words, you “behaved like a demon, a fanatic, led by hysteria and fear” when it came to pedos.
I have noticed in public forums, MAPs sometimes saying that they used to be Antis, raging against the pedos until they could no longer escape the realization that they too were one.
Do you think this is common / prevalent?
Hi Prue! I didn’t know about these other testimonials, but I’m not surprised at all. I think it works the same as with the internalized homophobia. And yes, I think it is very common. More common than what people suspect.
Sexual minorities have particularities that distinguish them from other communities (immigrants, disabled, women…). People who belong to a sexual minority can potentially hide their identity for the entire life, even to their partner! I mean, most immigrants could not effectively hide the fact that they are immigrants, can they? Less so to their partner! But a MAP can potentially hide the fact that they are a MAP. I think this creates particular dynamics, such as the one you mentioned.
Oh BTW, I will mention ILGA again in my next guest blog…
SCRAP fake Anglo apartheid age-gap crap!
Make non-Anglo Belgian, Delphine Lecompte MATRON Saint of AAMs, with Brussels statue and inscription “Adultophilia the Rational Cases”. Alongside their anti-authoritarian Pissing Boy & Squatting Girl.
.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=680884071721308&set=a.300182406458145
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=delphine+lecompte
Tom, I have a question. How do I read “pedophillia, the radical case”. Is there anyway I can reas it online? I am worried about getting a book like that phsycially shipped to my apartmwnt lol.
Free to read here, Koko:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343306718_Paedophilia_The_Radical_Case#fullTextFileContent
or at Ipce:
https://www.ipce.info/host/radicase/index.htm
Hope you like it!
Newgon has a page w/ info about the book.
A PDF is also available via Annas Archive or Library Genesis.
E.g. https://annas-archive.org/md5/a3ae585c3f0c54c3eab7cdc09ea8c90f
It’s definitely essential reading, Koko, so I hope you’ll give it a go. I recommend listening to the book via a text-to-speech reader, which I personally found made it more impactful and emotional. But whatever you do, it’s a great book, and I’m not the only one who thinks so! Many academics, journalists, etc., have had good things to say.