Father Michael, we were told, was young and hot. He was a “great priest”, too, but the gay 13-year-old boy, as he sucked the cleric’s cock with relish, probably had little head-space left over for pondering the Catholic teacher’s spiritual and pastoral qualities.
He just wanted flesh. Firm, handsome man-flesh. And nothing was going to stop him getting it, least of all the conventional scruples of an innocent young priest. So, barely into his teens, the boy made himself the predator, aggressively determined to corner his quarry into sizzling, sinful submission.
The name of that boy, that dazzlingly confident young moral, or immoral, entrepreneur, will be obvious enough to anyone who has been following the news lately. Long since all grown-up, but still with boyish good looks and a tongue so lively he could charm the cassock off the Pope himself, he was of course the wickedly iconoclastic Milo Yiannopoulos.
Yiannopoulos, or simply Milo to millions on both sides of the Atlantic since shooting to superstar one-name status, just like “the Donald”, on the back of his fame as a flamboyant political provocateur, scourge of political correctness and darling of the alt-right, was riding high only a couple of weeks ago. He had just made a glamorous appearance on Real Time with Bill Maher, had a six-figure advance on a book deal and was due to give a prestigious keynote speech at the American Conservative Union’s CPac conference, where the Donald himself would be in attendance. The US president, indeed, had personally tweeted at the start of the month in favour of free speech after Milo’s scheduled appearance at the University of California’s Berkeley campus had to be called off following a night of violent protesting against him being given a platform.
How ironic, then, that the high-flying Milo would soon be brought crashing down to earth by the same alt-right forces that had sent him soaring, and whose commitment to free speech was suddenly seen to depend entirely on what was said. As long as he was trashing Muslims and feminists, and mocking trans people, they were happy to defend his right to do so and cheer him to the rafters. But appearing to “condone paedophilia” was another matter entirely.
It was Milo’s casually risqué reminiscences with a chat-show outfit called the Drunken Peasants that did it. The offending section was lifted from a three-hour podcast that had been sitting on YouTube for a whole year, and tweeted via the Reagan Battalion as a short clip by outraged traditional conservatives on the eve of the CPac event. Within hours, the CPac platform was withdrawn, the publishers Simon & Schuster pulled out of the book deal and Milo was forced to resign his post as an editor at Breitbart in the UK, the far-right news operation to which he had been recruited by President Trump’s right-hand man Steve Bannon.
For Milo to talk jokingly about a 13-year-old enjoying sex with a priest was anathema to conservatives. In a single salvo it shot down in flames the most insistently unchallengeable social dogma of our age: that any child in sexual contact with an adult must necessarily be a victim. The taboo against such contacts could not be more fierce, as heretics here are all too well aware. So the slightest hint of subversive scepticism could not be tolerated.
It was far worse than slight, actually. The jokey stuff about enjoying oral sex with Father Michael could perhaps have been explained away as a victim’s black humour, a way of psychologically surviving a bleak experience. But he had also been unequivocally serious. He was entirely clear that there are young people capable of consenting to sex below the age of consent, saying he had been one of them. Especially in the gay world, he said, there were “coming of age” relationships between younger boys and older men, “in which those older men help those young boys to discover who they are, and give them security and safety and provide them with love and a reliable rock if they can’t speak to their parents.” He added:
In the gay world, some of the most enriching and incredibly life-affirming and shaping relationships, very often between younger boys and older men, can be hugely positive experiences for those young boys. They can save those young boys from desolation, suicide and drug addiction, all sorts of things, providing they’re consensual.
It is hard to see how anyone could have been much clearer or more seriously positive than that – except that, sadly, he quickly recanted once he came under attack and his world began to fall apart. In a humiliating press conference, he showed himself to be lacking the courage of his convictions, willing to say anything to save his skin. Not that it did.
So, can we take seriously anyone so utterly spineless and possibly insincere, a person who tosses outrageous assertions into the public arena simply to stir things up, get himself noticed and make a career for himself? Already, it has been suggested in comment here at Heretic TOC that we should not. It is a view shared by journalist Laurie Penny, who has come to know Milo better than most, having encountered him at the Republican National Convention last year and who reported extensively on his subsequent four-month Dangerous Faggot speaking tour of US university campuses, even sleeping on the tour bus.
She feels he has a very elite British approach, characterised by the view that debate is just debate: it doesn’t matter what you actually believe as long as you put up a stylish performance, with bags of confident swagger. She wrote:
Milo peddles a pageant of insincerity that is immediately legible to fellow Brits. Americans understand irony differently, and sometimes not at all. The crowd of excitable young and young-ish people gathered to hear him pontificate believe what he’s saying, even if he doesn’t. Which he doesn’t. And it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter that he doesn’t mean it. It doesn’t matter that he’s secretly quite a sweet, vulnerable person who is gracious to those he considers friends. It doesn’t matter that somewhere in the rhinestone-rimmed hamster wheel of his mind is a conscience. It doesn’t matter because the harm he does is real.
Make no mistake, his words are sometimes seriously harmful, especially when he attacks named individuals. It was mentioned here last time that on his campus tour he singled out a particular male-to-female trans woman for mockery. He announced her original male name and projected an image of her for the audience to see. Basically, he said, it was obvious that this was just a man in a dress – a man who looked so manly he could see himself having sex with “her” himself.
My guess is that he failed to understand how cruel this was. He might even have thought he was being complimentary by implying the “guy” was good-looking. To be honest, that is what I thought myself. He was right: “she” the trans woman, appeared not to be a somewhat masculine-looking person in transition to womanhood but straightforwardly a handsome man. What Milo totally failed to comprehend or care about was the crippling, devastating, humiliation he had inflicted – a horrible, traumatic consequence that will be understood by anyone who takes the trouble to read the 4,000-word email poured out by this unfortunate student in a keening howl of pain and rage over the incident, directed at the university principal.
What matters in a wider context, though, is not whether Milo is or is not capable of empathy and sincerity. What counts more than his merits or shortcomings as an individual is the impact he has made. Suddenly, in one brief, brilliant burst of publicity, the unspeakable was spoken; for the first time in decades the relentless propaganda of the victim narrative was stopped in its tracks and a fresh new voice was heard: the voice of the consenting juvenile.
No wonder there was a huge outcry of panic and alarm, not just from the conservative right but also from the “liberal” (which these days means illiberal and censorious) left. This noisy response demonstrated beyond doubt that the political and cultural establishments, left and right, on both sides of the Atlantic, had heard loud and clear; the left, though, while immediately trashing Milo just like the right, did its best to muffle his message by relegating what he actually said in favour of man-boy sexual relationships to relative obscurity deep down in their stories – the Guardian managed to cover several angles on the affair, over thousands of words, while barely mentioning Father Michael and Milo’s consensual sex with him.
In effect, the media paedophiled Milo, as writers Joseph Fischel and Gabriel Rosenberg inventively put it in Slate magazine. In other words, the distorted “liberal” presentation of the story contrived to make it look as though Milo was a paedophile trying to excuse “child abuse”, rather than an adult-oriented gay man with favourable memories of a supportive relationship with an older man when he had been only 13. No interpretation could be more perverse and fundamentally dishonest. But this is what our most cherished “quality” newspapers and broadcasters have done. So the Milo affair may just turn out to be a seven-day wonder, soon fading in the memory and vaguely recollected by most of those who heard about it as just another case of a celebrity paedo who got his comeuppance.
There will also be those, however, who heard the truth and will remember – including the millions out there who have been growing increasingly sick of victim-feminist PC bullshit in its myriad manifestations, and whose understanding of its dishonesty is high among the factors that have energised the current widespread rejection of “elite” discourse by ordinary people. It is the reason, for instance, that plenty of women voted for Trump despite his self-confessed enthusiasm for groping any woman he fancies. Despite the shrill reaction of the victim-feminists, a lot of women simply saw him as a guy who might get useful things done, rather than being overly fussed by his private behaviour.
There will be those, too, who will remember an interview given by Star Trek actor, Twitter pundit and gay activist George Takei, in which he also spoke approvingly of his sexual initiation as a 13-year-old, in his case by one of the leaders at a summer camp. This interview languished in relative obscurity for many years but was given new life by Milo’s outspokenness, and Takei has repeated what he said in further interviews. While these revelations have been played down by the mainstream media, they have been all over Twitter. And now the cat is out of the bag, who is to say Takei will be the last? Celebrity “first love” revelations might even become a fashionable rebuke to feminist censorship.
What does seem incontrovertible is that Milo and George between them have had a bigger impact in giving consenting juveniles a presence in the public consciousness than has been achieved by decades of low-level activism and intermittent academic research on the subject in the dark long decades that followed the brief radical spring we saw from the late 1960s to the late 1970s (and somewhat beyond in continental Europe, into the 1980s). The work of figures such as Theo Sandfort, Bruce Rind, Judith Levine and latterly Marshall Burns with his Consenting Juveniles project, has been important, but the far-reaching penetration of the public mind by less “serious” contributors is not to be despised.
I would go further. Milo Yiannopoulos has his faults, but listen to him for five or ten minutes and what comes across is the eloquent, fluent articulation of ideas that have plainly been thought out in some depth and are probably underpinned with more than a touch of erudition. This guy, despite his excesses, is a thinker worthy of our attention, not some crude neo-fascist shock-jock. Even Laurie Penny admits it, and she describes herself as a “radical queer feminist leftist writer”. She is quite a stylish one, too, but she has refused to debate Milo in public. Why? On this, too, she is candid: “Not because I’m frightened I’ll lose, but because I know I’ll lose.” And why would that be? Because Milo has genuine ability as a speaker, with valid points to make.
Penny calls Milo “a charming devil and one of the worst people I know”. It is a comment that echoes Lady Caroline Lamb’s famous remark about Lord Byron, who was said to be “mad, bad and dangerous to know”. Lady Caroline, it turns out, was arguably madder and badder than Byron himself. So we need to be wary of seductively sonorous character assassination; it may be false. But let us take from it, by all means, the romantic inference that to be “dangerous” or a “devil” is to be a figure of significant stature. Milo, in other words, is worthy of that Byronic echo. Bill Maher compared him to a danger man of our own times, the maverick radical Christopher Hitchens. Others speak of him in the same breath as Oscar Wilde, another dandy with a biting wit.
What we should take from Milo, I suggest, is a valid attack on the censorious nature of the present left: we need a genuinely liberal left, one that encourages language that is polite but not policed. We should not be in any hurry to sign up for the trendy but divisive alt-right that gave Milo his short-lived platform. We should have no truck with that movement’s racism, its gay-bashing, its misogyny, its economically illiterate nationalist protectionism and its science-hostile climate-change denial. Milo’s critique of the left is a refreshing and necessary corrective to its very real faults. But we should not throw out the progressive baby with the PC bathwater.
[…] Milo gives good (talking) head – usually […]
Interesting article on April’s law by OSC, The man himself!
http://therealosc.blogspot.ro/
Important as well as interesting. OSC also gives good links indicating the usual poisonous role of the press and the spineless response of the government, which has attacked the Supreme Court’s ruling on the SO registry instead of defending it. It’s a bit like the Brexit ruling, in which the media and politicians were calling the Supreme Court “enemies of the people” instead of standing up for the rule of law against attempts to undermine it.
Fair point…As a Brexiteer I am suspicious of those that suddenly support sovereignty of parliament; Not long before happy for it to be given away these last forty years. Tantamount to treason!
Well, that can easily be seen the other way around, can’t it? The Brexiteers were loudly calling for a restoration of parliamentary sovereignty during the referendum campaign. But suddenly, when the Supreme Court rules that triggering Article 50 needs the support of parliament, the Brexiteers no longer want parliamentary sovereignty!
No, I see your point; I was just questioning their motives. I have always hated the EU, and likewise, those federalists whose life was the Eu would stop at nothing and take every opportunity to derail Brexit.
In short: stay away from my child Milo!
http://webspace.webring.com/people/bu/um_1609/lionel.jpg
I think that a proper understanding of the (hypocritical) ambivalence of Milo’s simultaneous support of his personal intergenrational sexual encounter and rejection of intergenerational sexuality in general requires re-reading of Terry Leahy’s “Negotiating Stigma” book
https://www.ipce.info/booksreborn/NegotiatingStigma.pdf
which outlines different rhetorical strategies used by people who participated in positive consensual child-adult sex in their younger years.
Leahy found that, in many cases, such people were not bold enough to defend child-adult sexual contacts in general, which lead them to different special pleadings: they searched for reasons to separate their own experience from the general negative evaluative framework by inventing reasons why it was shouldn’t be described as “sexual abuse”, while other child-adult sex experiences should. Leahy called it “denial of discourse” – that is, general acceptance of dominant narrative, combined with attempts to deny its relevance in your own case.
The very different was “rejection of discourse”: the honest acceptance of “transgressive” – from the dominant point of view – nature of the positive realtionship, and yet defence not only of it, but of similar realtionships and intergenerational sexuality in general. Such position requires an open confrontation with a prevailing soietal consensus and a solidarilty with all people who stand against it and/or suffered because of it. Such universal liberatory position was a choice of a few, since it required real courage and a determination not to give up to mistaken notions, no matter how loudly they are praised and how angrily enforced.
And, as I said already, only a few – a very few – people are stong enough to do it. Most are ready to transgress only as long as their rebellion would be supported by a notable part of a population (such as Alt-Rightists in the Milo’s case). And I can’t say I blame them – I’m myself won’t be able to stand proud under the concentrated stream of scorn and hatred which any (pro-)paedophile activist invokes on himself/herself after his/her position is disclosed in public… I still don’t know how manage to keep your spirit high after the decades of harsh and undesreved persecution, Tom!
P.S. And, Tom, – as I see, the materials brought here by me (such as “Consenting Juveniles” and “Sex and Cesorship” websites) were helpful in writing your new post, weren’t they? Glad if they were – it’s pleasant to think that my efforts here are fruitful… 🙂
P.P.S. And, in addition to “consenting Juveniles” stuff, I want to inform that T. Rivas’ “Positive Memories” book had reached its 3rd edition. A recommened read for everyone who hasn’t studied it already!
https://www.ipce.info/host/rivas/pdf/posmen_3_text_2.pdf
Thanks, Explorer.
Terry Leahy has done a lot of marvellous work and you have chosen exactly the right context in which to draw our attention again to his book Negotiating Stigma, and also to the 3rd edition of Positive Memories by T. Rivas. And, yes, I can confirm that your other suggestions for reading have been extremely helpful.
>Most are ready to transgress only as long as their rebellion would be supported by a notable part of a population (such as Alt-Rightists in the Milo’s case). And I can’t say I blame them…
I don’t blame them either. As for me being cheerful, of course I am: I’m feeling fine and I’m not in jail at the moment! 🙂
Explorer, Thank you for your new to me good information. Lukas
Most interesting! As someone whose ‘primary’ sexual interest is in adults, I wonder if I could IMmodestly consider myself the second type mentioned above? I stick out my neck as much as I can dare.
Why defending MAPs?
In addition to personally knowing at least two, plus from counselling experience, my liberation came about thus…
Society, and to a lesser extent my parents, told me masturbation was at best juvenile. I could now wank for Team GB 🙂
I was told that homosexuality was wrong, and yet am now very comfortable in my own bisexuality, indeed pansexuality.
I was told that incest was wrong, and although I haven’t yet quite got over my repulsion for it, those I’ve seen/known who are have the most enviously close bonding with their family members. No sibling rivalry, Oedipus Complex, etc.
And so this brings me to paedophilia. I am now accepting of it, at least to allow adults to masturbate to child erotica, if not some actual relationship exceptions.
A journey of liberation.
Hi Tom, it’s been a long while since I commented on your excellent blog posts.
I saw a video of that momentous interview, and felt both disappointment in Milo’s cowardice but also much sympathy too. He was placed in a corner, and like a rat, panicked.
It is a very big shame! Those of us who see some/many/most adult-child sexual relationships as definitely harmless, were hoping Milo would simply say, “So what!? I was ready for at least felatio and Father Michael had been a genuinely good person for me. Get over it!
Of course, the narrow-minded American conservatives assumed it was totally ‘child abuse’, rather than if anything a gorgeous boy tempting a likely virgin to just once enjoy desperate sexual relief.
Back to Milo, I think his natural politics are actually left wing, and maybe his articulate eloquence could help to restore the liberals back to the heroes of the 1960s and some years later.
Yes, I see a new Oscar Wilde!
Pete, I hope you are right that we have a new Oscar Wilde in the making. Lukas
I very much doubt Milo is basically left-anything or anywhere close to Oscar Wilde. If he is, then I fear for society.
Do you know why his fans pitched a shitfit? Because what he actually said about intergenerational relationships was controversial. Basically every other opinion of his is tabloid-tier opinions that haven’t been revolutionary in the past few decades. His opinions on queer people, feminism, political correctness, and race are just the same conservative talking points with a new paint job slapped on. He claims to wish to push the envelope of so-called “dangerous” free speech but nothing he’s said before that comment was anything except defending the status quo.
Being able to be articulate and charming does not translate to being a good speaker or having good ideas. Conmen are plenty charming, but nobody’s going to defend them as being great people.
I see your viewpoint and conclude Milo is then very much a hypocrite, just like I’ve always suspected the anti MAP far right to be. Projectors and deflectors.
Yap Pete, A short brief hope quickly dashed. Lukas
Sadly so! I think @Peace is correct and me wrong. I was outwitted 🙂
I was waiting for your response to Milo’s comments and subsequent media hanging (or was it castration?). I agree with your main point, namely, that merely by raising the issue with a jokey little tale of a happy experience, Milo used his 15 minutes well. He said rather simply that 13-year-old boys (and by implication, maybe those a couple of years younger) can enjoy consensual sex with an older male. (Perhaps not so old as your faithful correspondent, who is, alas, no longer a 27-year-old). I haven’t listened to the excerpt or the whole podcast, but it seems Milo was saying exactly what I tell those who express disdain or worse: lighten up, people, trust kids to make choices, and besides, “we” aren’t forcing anyone, etc.
I also agree that recanting (I am tempted to say reCantoring) kind of put the kibosh on the whole thing, but I can understand that he was trying to save his book deal and “reputation” and wanted to be back on TV and stage. I trust he’ll slink his way back and entertain us further. Maybe he’ll even go down to 11.
Aged 11! I too suspect Milo was that age when he felated the priest. If you do see the recording, I think it correct to state that was what almost slipped out.
If it’s allowed by Tom, here are the video links (first the “Watching a car crash happen” interview and second the cowardly cop-out): http://bit.ly/2nChxhV ; http://bit.ly/2lYnZ6F | Note the subtitles on the first video, to get an insight into the Right Authoritarian American mind.
I know he ‘got your goat’ last time on the subject of MJ, But this rant is about Milo, and he can be rather amusing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuuU6-eLRd0
Seems that yesterday some people saw a 17-year-old girl with an older man. okay
This morning the feminists in twitter are warning of their disappearance with their photos and name, not even 24 hours after the alleged disappearance, just a night, a seventeen years-old !! As if tomorrow you’re with dating a 17 years-old and the later morning she’s still in your house! And feminists in twitter are mobilizing all twitter as a case of kidnapping and you a kidnapper!!!!!!! all Men: you are in danger!!!
death to feminism they are the enemies of Man !!!
On the subject of Germaine Greer, Here is an interesting review of her book called ‘The Boy’
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v26/n01/jenny-diski/cuddlesome
Yes, interesting indeed.
Reviewer Jenny Diski notes and explores the fact that Germaine Greer managed to get away with cheerleading for cross-generational sexual enthusiasm: her national treasure status remained untainted. Presciently, Diski asked whether as much slack would be cut for, say, Rolf Harris. Events have since proved her point that, no, they would not!
Diski quotes a quite daring passage from Greer’s book:
Hi, my name is Teddy Nilcheston, and I like 15 year old girls, but I’m not a monster, okay? I know they are small children and they can not consent, but please I will donate money to $ave the Children or I will do a fellatio to Stinson Hunter, so understand me and accept me in the society, never, never I will touch a little girl aged just 15, normal sane people love me!
By the way I do not remember if 15 years-old was hebephilia or ephebophilia! Someone call Seto plz!
The most repulsive and vile site in internet:
https://mancheeze.wordpress.com/
A misandrical radical feminist who abhors all mens on Earth, incluiding transsexual people, pedophiles, sex offenders, any men who have consensual sex with a minor, etc.
This IS needed to be denounced.
This is site is, indeed, is as filled with angry animosity and it is founded on baseless stupidity. Yet, this site, and other ones of misandric Authoritarian Left, are no more angry and stupid that the ones of misogynist Authoritarian Right, such as one of Roosh V:
http://www.rooshv.com/
If you read the reactionary misogynist staff from this site and compare it with reactionary misandrist staff from the staff you posted, you will easily notice how similar they are in their toxic combination of:
1) auto-victimising self-pity;
2) lust for (societal-scale) revenge and comeuppance;
3) primitive, stereotypical group-think and group-bashing.
None of this three characterisitcs is a good precondition for a genuine liberatory stance!
To understand this divisive and opressive mentality, shared by both SJWs on the Left and their mirror-image – Alt-Rightists on the Right, re-read the links from Libertartian Leftist Jerry Barnett’s “Sex and Censorship” which I provided on the comment section of the previous blogpost.
If given a choice between misandry and mysogyny, we should choose neither, but stand for gender equality and free choice of roles and activities for both men and women (and trans people). Read Tom’s article on Issue 2 of Alice Lovers Magazine (“Visions of Alice” blogroll link) for an eloqent, well-argumented libertarian position of ending counter-productive, less-than-zero-sum “gender warfare”.
Fully agree, Explorer, just as I did with the overall thesis and summation of Tom’s blog. We need to see a difference between the Progressive Left–which I mostly fully support–and what I have seen referred to as the Regressive Left, which is besmirching the Left with its rampant misandry, group profiling, and politics based on fiery emotion and revenge. “Third Wave Feminism” is a component of this regressive opposite number to the extreme alt-right, and both are currently considerably more popular than they should be due to another characteristic they share: loudness. The true progressives need to speak just as loudly in denunciation of reactionary behavior in all its manifestations, lest the reasonable continue to be drowned out by the infernal emotion of the regressives on either side of the political divide. The reasonable people who eschew hatred, revenge, and calls for group entitlement are the ones who need a “safe space,” not the victim-revelers.
Yet another all-Anglo travesty of justice.
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/a-travesty-of-justice/19501#.WLyP1tLyvMx
There is no strong political base for childlove advocacy, it is bound to create enemies from all sides. Whether one tries to create favorably with the left or the right, a lot of it is bound to come crashing down on you if you push too hard for intimacy between adults and children. Despite many of our best efforts we just have not been able to create any popular support for our views. For pedophiles this makes it difficult for us to be advocates for anything else we may feel strongly about. Why waste my time being an advocate for any other left wing or right wing cause when I know in the back of my mind that if anyone knew the truth about who I was they’d all turn on me and want me destroyed? We’d have to be dishonest with ourselves and with others if we even want to survive.
I haven’t really followed Mr Yiannopoulos’ public career in any detail, because – well, life is too short. But my impression of him is certainly not that he is “a thinker worthy of our attention.” In fact, I broadly agree with Laurie Penny’s evaluation of the man: I think he is a vapid, obnoxious attention-seeker who doesn’t really harbour any strong personal beliefs at all. I am a little mystified by the fact that so many people seem to have fallen unaccountably in love with him. A hitherto-quite-respectable medievalist at the University of Chicago recently compared Milo to Jesus Christ on her private blog, in a post almost olfactibly saturated in female love-juices. I had supposed that this was an exclusively American phenomenon: as Emma Brockes quite nicely put it in the Guardian: “In the US a lot of people think Yiannopoulos is awful, but they think he’s awful because he says awful things, not because he says awful things while styling himself as a estate agent on a night out. It is almost impossible to communicate his combination of offensiveness and ineffectiveness to those without a deep cultural sense of how British people use the word ‘tool.'” So the fact that some boylovers have seen MY as an unlikely hero of our cause leaves me frankly baffled. TOC’s claim that Milo sports “boyish good looks” could come straight from a Specsavers commercial (I have elsewhere described him as a spray-tanned zombie Princess Diana).
But the reason that Yiannopoulos is not good-for-the-paedos lies less in his outward grotesqueries than in what he has actually said about us. In a scornful article on Breitbart following Todd Nickerson’s piece in Salon, Milo claimed that paedophile rights were the next on the liberal left’s identity-politics agenda after trans rights. He wrote:
This is, of course, completely nuts. I assume everyone here will attest that the liberal left is not incorrigibly “sticking up for” the rights of MAPs, and shows no signs of doing so. This is how far Yiannopoulos is from ‘telling the truth.’ He is quite prepared to lie if it is in his interests to do so. Indeed, picking on Todd Nickerson is really all of apiece with Milo’s strategy of picking on the vulnerable and marginalised, and making them objects of anger and derision. It is the tactic of a bully, and the fact that some of his opponents might also be bullies does not make Milo a courageous defender of the downtrodden. I think Milo should serve as a warning to those who think that their sole enemies are “feminists” or the “progressive left”, however these terms are defined.
Yiannopoulos has continued to protest – and in this, at least, I believe he is telling the truth – that he does not support paedophilia and he abhors paedophiles. He has boasted about ‘outing’ paedophiles on Breitbart, including (get thee behind me, Schadenfreude!) Louise Mensch’s business partner Luke Bozier. He has continued to distinguish between his own experience and ‘real’ paedophilia. And here is possibly the only really interesting thing about Milo Yiannopoulos: he exposes some of the intriguing inconsistencies in the paedophobic mindset. He really hates paedophiles – but not his one. He is prepared to condemn even non-offending MAPs in highly inflammatory terms, but he struggles to describe his own experience as abusive. This is the only way in which Yiannopoulos is helpful to us: he shows how the pieties of left and right can break down under scrutiny, and how they can be at odds with personal experience. But it would take someone much smarter and more courageous than Milo Yiannopoulos to confront the implications of his own unintentional honesty.
” Milo claimed that paedophile rights were the next on the liberal left’s identity-politics agenda after trans rights”…Yet many of us hate identity-politics; I certainly do!
I certainly do, as well. I see it as divisive, rather than a call for justice. The unintentional point Milo seems to have made here is that both pundits of the Extreme Right and Extreme Left throw the “pedophile” moniker at each other to deride the opposing “team.” The “P word” has become a catch-all insult for one group, regardless of their political ideals, to throw at the other. When the word “fascist” isn’t a nasty enough label for your opponent, then “pedophile” is the insult and accusation of choice that one can never go wrong with.
>TOC’s claim that Milo sports “boyish good looks” could come straight from a Specsavers commercial
LOL! As it happens, my specs are from Specsavers, so perhaps I should go back there and claim a refund!
>So the fact that some boylovers have seen MY as an unlikely hero of our cause leaves me frankly baffled.
I do not regret focusing on Milo’s moment of candour, when he said he had been capable of consent at 13 and that a man-boy sexual relationship can be a positive experience. I do agree, though, that there is much in his record that is appalling. Your excellent comment gives important information in this regard and you are right to say he is no hero.
>This is the only way in which Yiannopoulos is helpful to us: he shows how the pieties of left and right can break down under scrutiny, and how they can be at odds with personal experience.
The most important thing, I suggest, is what he originally said about his own experience. Otherwise, I agree.
Indeed, picking on Todd Nickerson is really all of apiece with Milo’s strategy of picking on the vulnerable and marginalised
Surely, you’re joking. Nickerson, the self-proclaimed Virtuous pedophile, have a long history of viciously bullying pedophiles, including threatening to out them, making baseless accusations of child molestation and, true his extreme misandry, when not accusing pedophiles of misogyny (for the horrible sin of not being attracted to adult women) calling for the extermination of males. This is well-documented, and would not escape any journalist capable of doing their job, rather than writing anti-pedophile propaganda, designed to appeal to the Left and capable of fooling only the most gullible among the general public and us.
Milo, for his minor flaws, stood up for for the marginalized, including gamers, poor white heterosexual men and horny 13-year-olds, people bullied into silence by the corrupt PC Left. It’s not a surprise that a media outlet, criticized for corruption by the gamers Milo dared defend, broke the news about the young Canadian women, who dug up the very public ‘dirt’ on Milo and sent it to a suitable right-wing outlet.
Milo has a much bigger audience and political platform than Todd does, so I would agree that Milo is indeed picking on someone more vulnerable and marginalized. I’m not saying Todd is a saint or anything, but that he certainly has much less political clout than Milo does and therefore is much less capable of not only defending against but also executing the same kind of attack that Milo waged against him. Pedophiles, even the so-called “virtuous” kind, are certainly more marginalized than “gamers” and “poor heterosexual men.”
“Milo has a much bigger audience”…But if you take that to its logical conclusion, Like many in identity politics do, Then you end up in a position that Germaine Greer was in when she gave an ‘opinion’ on transgender women; Not recognising them as such. She ended up banned from University campuses etc. People may wonder why I’m using her as an example, But from what I remember she has made rather pro-contact comments in the past, Even if it was in the 1970s!
I’m not familiar with that incident but was she attacking a specific person or was she just speaking in general about transgendered people? That would be the difference.
It seems that she was talking in general:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-34626450
I’m not saying Todd is a saint or anything
Nickerson is a pedophile, so I hold him to a higher standard than even fairly sympathetic non-pedophiles, such as Milo. As pedophile boards are rare, pedophiles, unlike those bothered by breitbart articles or Milo’s university tour, have few options. Does it improve pedophiles’ lives to be called child molesters by a self-proclaimed “Virtuous” pedophile? I don’t think so and I will certainly not utterly compromise my own ethics to excuse such statements by any pedophile.
I don’t care about the relative popularity of Milo vs Nickerson, but should you desire to make it an issue of popularity:
Can the average pedophile or GC member, lacking Nickerson’s journalistic education and willingness to spin a story, easily defend himself against the extremely biased image Nickerson have created of pedophiles in general and GC members in particular, not only in posts on pedophile forums, but in just about any trash media willing to lend him an ear?
Kudos to Milo for giving Nickerson a mild taste of his own medicine.
Pedophiles, even the so-called “virtuous” kind, are certainly more marginalized than “gamers” and “poor heterosexual men.”
That Milo has defended the marginalized (gamers/poor white heterosexual men/horny 13-year-olds) is sufficient to disprove Kit’s claim. I don’t see anti-pedophiles, including those dreaming of a perfect world without pedophilia, as the slightest bit marginalized.
However, I grant that it’s possible Kit is using the SJW version of ‘marginalized’, whereby the poor, white heterosexuals are considered ‘privileged’. However, I know of no such list explicitly considering pedophiles marginalized.
@Eric Start with the GC/BC archives. A GC moderator, such as Dissident, could
possible help with the few recent posts, which have become non-public, as per recent policy changes on GC.
I’m currently quite ill. I could provide more specific links at a later date.
Right now, I’m still having difficulty reaching GC due to server issues. That said, I will mention that even posts that have slipped into the GC archives and are now non-recoverable via the forum itself can be found with some diligent digging on a regular search engine.
As for clarification of Nada’s words, I’ll say this much now, for whatever my word is worth to anyone who may not have seen the long history of my own friendship and public battles with Todd on GC and elsewhere over the course of several years, which resulted in his declaring our friendship ended after our last battle over a year ago. That also led to his most recent (to my knowledge) declaration that he was leaving GC and the presence of pro-choicers behind before invariably returning there again.
Todd is a brilliant individual with a lot of artistic talent, and has a lot of potential in many directions. There is a genuinely good person inside him, but his emotional state is very precarious due to being a pedophile while growing up in a culture that detests pedophiles. This has resulted in his having accumulated a huge amount of pain and anguish upon reaching adulthood, which, unfortunately, ended up getting directed the same way that of the typical SJW is directed: into hatred and uncontrolled anger, including at himself and his attraction base. Coming out of the toybox and later repudiating the pro-choice stance he once championed both failed to succeed in giving him what I believe he has always wanted most: to be accepted by a large group of people, but preferably by the entire society that he feels has rejected him.
He also has the tendency to mercilessly direct his anger at people who are closest to him. This has caused him to have periodic emotional breakdowns, and when this happens, his behavior becomes extremely unpredictable, resulting in certain actions that aroused the ire of many people on GC, including several of his friends. Sometimes he has left GC, claiming he wanted to seek mental health services to help “cure” him, and urged the rest of us to do the same. Once he was gone for an entire year, and as always returned without having excised either his natural attraction base nor his emotional problems. Other times he has said he was “on the fence” over the issues when it was clear he was still struggling with strong inner hatred and a great degree of anguish over how he knows the culture at large feels about him and other Kind people. Some of his fellow posters on GC have remained very forgiving of him over the years, accepting apology after apology without reservation due to developing a strong soft spot for him due to his emotional problems. Others, like me, were unable to help getting angry back at him. He believes that most of his pro-choice friends turned on him after he announced his “change of position” to being anti-choice. I will insist that his behavior and how he went about it, and how he made it his mission to shove that “change” up everyone’s noses after his announcement, had at least as much to do with people turning on him than simply his change of position. He never wanted to accept how deeply hurtful his behavior, accusations, and insults can be to those who have supported him, and simply wanted to see himself as the outcast victim.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m no saint myself, and I understand I can get very nasty if someone pushes me far enough or insults me and the community, and I have made my share of mistakes by responding in very heated fashion (to say the least) when this has occurred. I have made apologies that were genuinely owed to others, and I have more than my share of regrets. I readily admit that I have engaged in some nasty battles with Todd that have hurt his feelings, and which didn’t help his emotional state any. Nevertheless, despite these mistakes on my part, his own behavior can really bring out the anger in some people, and he is a dyed-in-the-wool SJW whose misandry and insults on the pro-choice segment of the community were beyond my tolerance at times.
I’m not able to dislike him as much as I have sometimes wanted to, because I’ve been through too much with him over the years. He’s like the errant little brother I can’t see eye-to-eye with, resulting in a lot of heated antipathy building between the two of us no matter how much affection I may genuinely feel for him. It became extremely hard maintaining a friendship with him considering the ways he handled his anger and views, and admittedly, it would at times bring out the worst in me towards him. I sympathize with his pain, but I cannot continuously overlook or excuse his behavior because of it, even when I’ve tried.
I hope that was fair enough.
Thanks, Dissy, for the series of very insightful and informative posts you have sent today. I have learned a lot.
You’re very welcome, and I appreciate you saying this, Tom. Thank you for inspiring these comments of mine with another extremely insightful essay!
#####Nickerson, the self-proclaimed Virtuous pedophile, have a long history of viciously bullying pedophiles, including threatening to out them, making baseless accusations of child molestation and, true his extreme misandry, when not accusing pedophiles of misogyny (for the horrible sin of not being attracted to adult women) calling for the extermination of males.#####
Aqui more information on this sorprendent revelation por favor, nada!
For what it’s worth, Kit, I do not see Milo as a hero, nor am I “in love” with his rhetoric and brashness but like Tom, I nevertheless believe that the comments and observations he has made against the PC-minded regressive leftists and (additionally, IMO) the haughty attitudes of the “radical” atheists are on-target. It’s these well-thought-out statements I agree with, and whether or not Milo actually agrees with them or not when his mouth spews them is irrelevant to the quality of the points. I truly believe these points to be true, and I came to most of them via my own conclusions long before I saw Milo discussing them on the air.
Is he a hypocritical opportunist? Of course he is! Any high-profile gay activist who speaks so derisively of MAPs and is so dismissive of our humanity and the validity of our rights must necessarily ignore the situation that gays were in prior to the 1970s, and where they still find themselves today in certain Middle Eastern and African nations (e.g., Iran, Uganda). It’s quite easy for an LGBT person who was born in the West during the past few decades to spit such venomous rhetoric, because they have no idea what it was like to be so dehumanized and to have one’s attraction base subject to such vile misinformation. As he himself has cogently admitted and quipped about on his various interviews, Western gays in the early 21st century are in a highly favored position in the media, and can get away with saying a lot of things that a heterosexual male would be pilloried for saying. They are the darlings of the Left, who not are not simply treated equally by them but are often coddled and treated as Noble Victims who need not adhere to the same standards that white male heterosexuals are. Hence, it’s easy for them to become the very thing they hated and feared most back during the 1950s.
His own personal experience as a 13-year-old that runs contrary to the narrative–before he felt bullied and shamed into recanting it, that is–makes him even more of a hypocrite and opportunist. But his situation, and that of George Takei which Tom also mentioned, proves three important things that I hope Milo took to heart as lessons learned about today’s media and culture:
1. Brazen individuals like himself only act courageous and outspoken when they pontificate on “controversial” topics that are widely accepted by some loud, established group with some measure of political clout. Currently, Kind people, the handful of Non-Kinds who openly advocate for them, and their opposite complimentary attraction base, mesophiles (thank you, Dr. Seto!), do not enjoy a comparable chunk of political clout. Thus, the courage and outspokenness of any individual like Milo is quickly beaten out of them should they choose to transgress on this topic. Some rocks are a lot bigger and more difficult to shrug off when tossed at you than others. When he knows his alt-right comrades will stand behind him, he’ll have the courage to take on anyone and anything; but when he speaks on a topic they will not have his back on, then the inner conformist is exposed.
2. The most darkly ironic aspect of the moral panic connected to the public’s conception of “pedophilia” is that it can easily come back to bite even its most stringent public detractors on the proverbial arse. Nobody is “safe” from a witch hunt.
3. The supposed ubiquitous moral consensus on intergenerational sexual contact is far from consistent with the personal experiences of a huge number of people, including some of those same ardent detractors. In fact, the narrative is obviously not consistent with a significant portion of human experience. All the censorship, hatred, shaming, draconian legislation, redacted book contracts, witch-hunting, and moralizing “certainty” that any culture and its media can muster are not changing this salient fact.
I think George Takei would be a more appealing ally for us than Milo.
On Question Time last night, Out of all these so called ‘liberals’, Only Peter Hitchens had a measured response, Claiming he didn’t know enough on the subject of paedophilia and ‘abuse images’, He also told people to refrain from being emotive, and just saying what’s seen as acceptable and fashionable.
Good for him!
I’ve just watched the relevant bit of ‘Question Time’ and in fact Jamie MacColl on the panel was also quite sensible, urging the role of non-punitive responses (though he unfortunately included in this ‘involuntary chemical castration’). He was backed up by an audience member, who said that offenders should ‘get the help they need’.
The problem there is that too often the media insists that all intergenerational sexual contact is “abuse,” as if the word and its definition are indelible to the experience no matter the context of the situation, or how enthusiastically the younger person may have participated in, desired, and felt about the experience. Because of the way this word is stamped into discussion, it always leaves the implication in the minds of the reader that the younger person was harmed by the experience, even if the only harm done was to the sensibilities of the people reporting and reading it. Hence, the older person involved always needs “help” to “recover” from his “harmful urges.”
He’s a considerably braver soul than Milo is!
Thank you Milo for forming the exact right words those of us who got sexual attention from a man when we were a kid should say openly & often.
You are a waste of functioning organs. This article leaves no doubt. Please donate them to someone who will put them to actual use. How fucking pathetic.
Have a nice day now, and don’t forget to take your meds! 🙂
Er, TOC.
Surely ‘Don’t Know’ is replying to and referring to ‘Lukas’ – not to you?
Ya’ll have an unreal nice weak-end now, cum bak real soon.
SeXentric is quite right. Sorry, Lukas, I did not mean to forestall any response you may wish to make.
RealMeanwhile, WHERE is ex-Adulto Dale Winton in TOC’s BIG ‘Search’ box?
Dale Winton is mentioned in published comments at this site as follows:
1) willistina556 2012/11/09 at 9:42 pm
2) NoNonceSense, 2015/07/23 at 9:49 am
The public Search button brings up results only from the blogs. The Omnisearch button available to the site administrator also searches the Comments. Both elements of the Search tool are provided by WordPress. I don’t think it is possible, unfortunately, to make the Omnisearch button publicly available.