Should we publish and be damned?

We’ve seen it before, haven’t we? Those who start wars on terror end up behaving like terrorists themselves. The virtual ink dry was barely dry on Heretic TOC’s warning last week that British paedophiles are to be treated as terrorists when news came through that in Germany the police have begun their own reign of terror.
For what else can it be called, really, when 150 police officers – that’s right, one hundred and fifty – are deployed in an operation to arrest a handful of people peacefully enjoying a Spring day out, including a trip to a zoo with a little girl? In effect, indeed, they arrested the child, who was reportedly “taken into care”. She was aged just five. One can only imagine, with dismay, the shock and distress visited upon the poor mite, and the lasting trauma as she comes to understand how comprehensively her world has been shattered.
A brief report from Germany reached us in the form of a Heretic TOC comment posted by “Ovid” i.e. the German blog of that name. Further details have now been gleaned from the blog itself insofar as the vagaries of a Google translation allow: the grammar may be rough and ready but my experience suggests the substance is far more trustworthy than mainstream media reports based on police propaganda.
Ovid told us 11 girl-lovers were arrested, supposedly on suspicion of belonging to a child pornography or paedophile ring: the police appear to have no idea which, saying it is “early days” for the enquiry. In other words, they piled in with no evidence, hoping to find some. The 10 men and a woman were arrested in the city of Aschersleben, Saxony-Anhalt, and were released soon after without, as yet, any charges. Some houses were searched. Ovid’s comment also linked to an English-language news report which played up lurid police claims of major criminality – claims which the police would of course have known would look dramatically real if they went into action like a military unit, as they did, complete with over 20 vehicles. It was though they were likely to encounter armed resistance – as though, in other words, they were dealing with terrorists!
The suspects, Ovid informs us, had all known each other from an online forum, girlloverforum.net. They were having a get-together, just to have a nice day out and a chat in person, including a planned barbecue later on. The little girl was the niece of one of them. The news reports speculated that she was being used in playgrounds to lure “more victims”. More? Who then was the first victim? Not the niece, it seems: the group were under surveillance all day in the town, including visits to a flea market and a zoo, without any criminal activity being seen. If there had been direct evidence of this sort, presumably those responsible would have been charged, and probably kept in custody.
Interestingly, only the initial press reports made the “luring” claim: later accounts backed off. The little girl had simply been playing with other children, although even this was given a sinister twist: now she was said to have been “abused as a decoy”, whatever that meant. Perhaps it loses something in translation.
Ovid’s blog pinpoints an investigative journalist “from RTL”, the massive pan-European broadcasting conglomerate, as a police informant. This investigator had been invited to the Aschersleben gathering after pretending to be a paedophile. One supposes RTL and the police shared the common presumption that simply being attracted to children of either sex amounts to a good reason for thwarting any attempt to meet others with similar feelings. The civil right to freedom of assembly is not for paedophiles, it seems.
As for the police, once a reporter from a big media outfit was involved, they had to be seen to be doing something, hence the great display of a major operation, regardless of whether there was any evidence to justify it.
Another comment on Heretic TOC, by “A”, noted that this German development comes hard on the heels not only of the British “treat them as terrorists” move but also soon after the pro-paedophile Martijn association (Vereniging Martijn) in the Netherlands was banned by a ruling of the Dutch Supreme Court. Unless the case is fought in the European Court of Human Rights, it could be the end of the line for Martijn after a long legal battle. The Supreme Court ruled last month that Martijn be banned and disbanded because its activities were “contrary to public order”.
The prosecuting authorities had originally tried to use the criminal law against Martijn. This failed because the organisation had broken no laws. But then there was a petition to parliament demanding the banning of the association, with 70,000 signatures. When a parliamentary debate failed to lead to further action, the public prosecutor took the matter before the courts in 2012, using the civil law. The prosecutor won the first hearing but lost in the appeal court, which took a more liberal view, declaring that society should tolerate unpopular beliefs. Now, this appeal verdict has in its turn been overthrown in the country’s highest court.
Heretic TOC has been told by a well informed Dutch source that the Supreme Court found “Martijn downplays the dangers of sexual contact with young children” and “even glorifies such contacts”. If that sounds familiar it could be thanks to your knowledge of British anti-terrorism legislation or because you read Heretic TOC’s prediction last time that a new crime of “glorifying” paedophilia will be next on the statute books.
But the Dutch have beaten us to it via this civil law pronouncement. The court said: “Although in general great restraint should be exercised in the banning and dissolution of an association, in this very special case a democratic society requires that the association must be banned and disbanded in the interest of protecting the health and rights and freedoms of children.”
That would presumably be their “right” to do as they are told and their “freedom” to be unable to engage in sexual contacts of their own choice.
In the view of my very reliable Dutch source, Martijn was the author of its own downfall because the association failed to separate its dialogue with society from “titillating stories written for members”. Any such policy may well have hastened Martijn’s demise but Heretic TOC notes that girlloverforum is said to be cautiously moderated. Thus, appeasing hostile opinion apparently does not help all that much! In these circumstances it is tempting just to “publish and be damned”. There is something to be said for going out in a blaze of glory, or “glorification”, but whether it is really worth doing so must be judged against one’s objectives. If the aim is to educate ourselves and a wider public we should struggle to keep our voices heard in an unimpeachably temperate and rational way. If even then we are silenced, at least we can be sure we do not have ourselves to blame.
Forgive the “we” in all this. We are individuals. Between us we hold a range of views. We include those who have posted here dozens of times, others just once, and in the case of “lurkers” (who may include both sympathetic and hostile readers) not at all. And it is an “I”, not a “we”, who carries legal responsibility for the contents of Heretic TOC as its host. The unfortunate German experience demonstrates, though, that formal responsibility for web content is not the only thing that counts.
Nor is prosecution or civil action in the courts. Yet another factor adding to the pressures upon us is official harassment of the “We’re watching you!” variety. Registered sex offenders get it all the time, of course: constant monitoring by the police, including home visits at which all manner of personal questions may be asked. In the case of a convicted person, there is at least a clear and lawful rationale for such intrusions, even if we do not agree with them. In yet another sign of our oppressive times, though, and an indication of their thoroughly global nature, New Zealand blogger Peter Hooper found the police on his doorstep recently even though he has no convictions and their hostile interest in him owed nothing to illegality, either his own or that of others.
Peter, whose name will be familiar to many here as a commentator on Heretic TOC, has his own blog called Take-A-Risk-NZ (see Blog Roll, right). The name might suggest a certain recklessness but those who know Peter’s posts would hardly accuse him of that. On the contrary, his thoughtful, painstaking, style and unfailing courtesy suggest an irreproachable figure, a man of integrity.
On his blog a couple of months ago he said two plain clothes police officers came to his apartment complex. They had taken an interest in an image he had used on his blog and his Facebook page of a boy pointing a gun at his head. It had appeared on Peter’s blog in connection with the possible effect of the American Psychological Association’s policies. The photo had a caption: “Each day 30 to 150 American teens realize they’re attracted to younger children. Almost half will consider suicide. APA’s response: ignore them or threaten prosecution as child molesters.”
Ring any bells? Once more, there is a Heretic TOC connection. This blog ran the same photo last November, and for exactly the same reasons as Peter’s. There was nothing illegal about it, or even controversial except that it was used in a hard-hitting campaign to challenge the APA. So why did the police take an interest? They said they knew the image had appeared on Tumblr, so anyone could have seen and published the image without having any connection to the boy depicted. So there was no pretence of investigating possible abuse of the boy in the photo. They also said they understood Peter had not broken the law and I had a legal right to express his views.
They were there, evidently, solely because anyone reproducing such a photo constituted “a person of interest” to them. In other words, if you are interested in radical sexual politics, you are a suspicious character. You are not necessarily suspected of doing anything. Just being what you are – a troublemaker at the very least, no doubt, in their eyes – is sufficient for them to let you know they are taking an interest, and watching you. They actually said that just before they left: “We’re watching you.”
Speaking of watching, I have not been paying close enough attention to my word-count and the time available for my blogging. I meant to catch up with unfinished business from last time, about the new Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act in the UK, but again it will have to be deferred to another occasion. If there is one, that is. With Big Brother watching, it cannot be guaranteed!

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Cyril

did you know that “Authorities in Germany (have) take(n) down one of the world’s biggest child sex-abusep platforms (‘Boystown’), following a large-scale investigation which led to several arrests in mid-April” 2021, i.e., one year ago? https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/enhanced/doi/10.1111/jcms.13409

James

The decision of the Dutch court is ridiculous. How is this organisation a credible threat to anyone’s rights? If the people of the Netherlands disagree with them (which clearly they do) they don’t have to vote for their policies! Either they’re afraid that they’re very close to losing control and abolishing the AoC (Doubtful) or they don’t like icky views they disagree with (almost certain).
One of the qualities commonly associated with ‘adulthood’ is the ability to ignore views you disagree with instead of throwing a tantrum about it. I hope the justices of the Supreme Court are abstaining from sex because they are such babies!

[…] this blog piece offers was referenced by Tom O’Carroll in an item titled “Should we publish and be damned?” A commenter on that article, Peter Loudon, shared details about the person who took the image of […]

ovid221

Hey Tom,
thank you very much for this article. I was busy in the last days so i only spotted this today. Thanks!
As expected no more news about this, no more evidence… nothing. Everything appears as if the police arrested a child abuse network, while in reality no law was broken. But this is hardly newsworthy is it?
Just one remark: You linked the wrong article from my blog. This is the link:
http://ovid.blogsport.de/2014/05/08/aschersleben-ein-kinderporno-ring/

Linca

About publishing:
According to Robert McKee the author of “Story” http://www.amazon.com/Story-Substance-Structure-Principles-Screenwriting/dp/0060391685/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1401062932&sr=1-1&keywords=Robert+McKee you have to be genetically gifted. You have to have the brain power to take two things that already exist and put them together in a third way that never existed before. He says, “That is talent, that is the analogical logic of talent.” The ability to transfer information from a particular subject to another particular subject.
I am thinking of a time in the future when intergenerational sex has been completely forgotten, completely wiped from our collective memory, when all we are trying has utterly failed. A couple rediscovers intergenerational sex in such a way that a chain of events occurs that completely turns that awful world upside down; solutions to millennia old problems that were hiding in plain sight are finally seen.
Are any of us up to the task? Try exploring Robert McKee. He is hunting for someone who can write the story that will transform the world.
Linca

holocaust21

I suppose the trouble with the ‘unimpeachably temperate and rational’ approach is that your opponents, as they all so often do, can then portray you as a cunning manipulative predatory paedophile etc.
On the otherhand, if one uses more aggressive rhetoric then ‘manipulative’ just doesn’t stick!
I do find a lot of ‘pro-paedophile’ activism has tended to be more on the defensive side whereas it seems, to me at least, that a more offensive approach might be better. Especially these days, with a million men in America classed as sex offenders and the British government striving to effectively abolish trials it seems that there is no shortage of accusations that can be levied at the feminists!
I’ve observed that there has been a gradual emergence of a men’s rights movement with some in the movement calling for lowering or abolishing the age of consent. Their rhetoric tends to be more aggressive (e.g. Eivind Berge). As they tend to argue that what is commonly called ‘paedophilia’ is really just normal male sexuality it also provides a potential way of arguing around potential government laws that criminalise ‘glorification of paedophilia’. Manipulate language like the feminists do and redefine ‘paedophilia’ to be narrower and narrower until it no longer exists!

holocaust21

Don’t get me wrong I’m certainly not saying that temperate and rational discussion is bad or a waste of time. I love your blog and think you do a really great job of bringing together the evidence as it were. But I guess I’m just putting the other view that the public only understand ideology and dogma, so, well, they need to be fed with some 🙂
As for the question of feminism I used to think that these puritanical feminists weren’t ‘real’ feminists. However, I’m starting to come to the conclusion that it’s the other way around; it’s the 1960’s sexual liberation ‘feminists’ who aren’t real feminists. Think about it this way, the age of consent in Britain was raised in 1885 from 13 to 16 as a result of feminist campaigning. These were the original suffragettes! Then eventually the 1960s came and libertine types hijacked the movement. Then onto the 1980s and well a return to puritanism (with a vengeance).
It’s also worth noting that whilst women may not have had the vote at one point, it was at a particular time in history in which any excuse was being made not to give people the vote – thus many poor men didn’t get the vote either. And let’s be honest, most people don’t care about having the vote; elections were a farce then and they are a farce now!
In the end though it’s all language, for me feminism is a problem because everyone can look at the word and see that it suggests some sort of female supremacy or female victimhood and that’s not gender equality.

Luftetari

Well check out his responses to the poster “GirlLover” on his blog post about Elliot Rogers
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=26678806&postID=4454389162296218211
Good quote from Eivind:
“Any damage from the sexual relations you describe would have to be caused by the abuse industry itself, since I am unaware of any convincing evidence that children voluntarily expressing their sexuality is inherently harmful.”
Definitely one to watch.

girllover

Perhaps it seems natural now that pedophiles would find an ally in a men’s rights movement considering most people who are jailed and punished due to these laws are men. Perhaps this is where this will go.
Feminism, and even gays rights activists, who were for a short period freedom fighters and perhaps during the 60’s and 70’s seemed the most likely allies have turned into politically-correct language police who relish in being part of the authoritarian power structure. I do see a tide coming that is slowly turning against the monster that modern feminism has become. More and more people are speaking out against it and it’s not conservatives or religious fundamentalists, but secular and libertarian types who are sick of the politically correct man-hating white-guilt bullshit.
As an off-topic side note, I kept reading the title of this blog as “should we be punished and be damned” and I’ve just now noticed I’ve been reading it wrong. That’s some clever wordplay there. 🙂

Linca

Holocaust21,
I just looked at your website. I had no idea that in the US alone there are over One Million Registered Sex Offenders. This is getting on the scale of the Holocaust: Sex Offenders Are The New Jews.
On June 6, 2010 there was a conference at The Center on Halsted in Chicago titled, “Are Sex Offenders The New Queers”. This was put on by The Lesbian and Gay Studies Project of the Center for Gender Studies at the University of Chicago. I am sorry to say that the video of the conference has been pulled down.
We need pedosexual Harvey Milk’s. Outspoken persons who can dominate the media.
I will be a regular reader of your blog.
Linca

holocaust21

Linca,
It’s interesting because it’s quite hard to quantify the exact number of sex offenders. The estimate on my blog is fairly rough though it’s in that sort of ballpark. As I understand it there are over 747,408 individuals currently counted as being on sex offender registries (see
http://www.statisticbrain.com/sex-offender-statistics/). From a 1997 report (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/SOO.PDF) I could find there were nearly 100,000 in prison for sexual offences. I believe those in prison are not (supposed) to be placed on the sex offender register. So that brings us to around 847,000, of course since 1997 the number of sex offenders in prison will have increased as the witchhunt really went into full swing in the 21st century. There’s also the issue of those who were forced to leave the United States after release from prison (to be free again) or those who absconded before trial. I believe that, in the United States, despite barbaric sentencing they quite often give bail, and, well, if your lawyer tells you that you are almost certainly going to be found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment wouldn’t you try just ‘disappearing’?
Having said all that, in the interests of Tom’s on the one hand/on the otherhand culture here I did just come across this:
http://solresearch.org/~SOLR/rprt/SOR.asp
Which suggests that the number of registered sex offenders may be overcounted due to states sometimes including sex offenders who are in prison, who have died, who have left the state etc. The article is a little old – there are 100,000 more people added to the registry in the 7 years since – but it suggests registries may be overcounted by 13%. So you could argue it’s less than a million, I think it’s almost definitely more than 700,000 though.

Linca

holocaust21,
What I will say is when I am talking is, “The Sex Offender registry in the short years since it began which was 1987 in my state, is now over half a million. This is already beginning to use a number description, million, like the millions of Jews that were registered and then murdered in the 1930’s Europe. Didn’t we fight that war to stop this kind of thing? Were we lied to then? Were the Germans lied to about the dangers of Jews? Are we being lied to now about the dangers of child sex and pedo intergenerational sex?”
I like it that you cite The Rind Meta-Analysis: Science. The bottom line that has been repeated twice with the same results. The American Association For The Advancement of Science (AAAS) the Flagship Organization of Science says the Rind studies are science. Good enough for me how about you?
Linca

mr p

I thought for a moment the thought police had caught up! But maybe that premonition is too real to joke about. As long as discussion continues to be taboo, and ignorance reigns, these stereotypes will continue to find fertile ground.
There was a book i forgot to mention, this book would be seen by many including our virtuous brothers as an instruction manual. This is the book with the author’s brief description:
[TOC: TITLE REMOVED AS THE BOOK, NOW WITHDRAWN BY AMAZON, COULD INDEED BY SEEN AS AN INSTRUCTION MANUAL]
“In some countries it’s even illegal to have sex outside marriage with severe consequences if you are caught doing so! On the flip side,there are many countries on this planet where the age of consent is as low as 12 or 13… this $3.49 will keep you out of jail, possibly the most important few dollars that any red blooded testosterone pumped traveler will spend.”
[TOC: NO, THE BOOK WOULD DO MORE TO GET YOU INTO JAIL THAN KEEP YOU OUT. UNDER CURRENT BRITISH LAW, FOR INSTANCE, A UK NATIONAL WHO TRAVELS ABROAD AND HAS SEX WITH A CHILD UNDER 16 CAN BE PROSECUTED WITH AN OFFENCE ON THEIR RETURN TO THE UK, EVEN IF THE ACT TOOK PLACE IN A COUNTRY WITH A LOWER AGE OF CONSENT. This is under the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008. See, for instance, this Daily Telegraph report:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/2281822/Sex-tourists-face-UK-prosecution-over-abuse-abroad.html%5D
At first amazon defended the book before giving in to public pressure. This was their initial defence:
“…Amazon believes it is censorship not to sell certain books simply because we or others believe their message is objectionable. Amazon does not support or promote criminal acts, however we do support the right of every individual to make their own purchasing decisions.”

mr p

No not at all,I thought the law was aimed at anyone under 18 not 16,Is that not
why they moved the AOC in cambodia from 15 to 18 because of prostitution
so i could still get done with a 17yo in cambodia as a uk citizen?

sugarboy

Theoreticcally speaking, they could still ask for asylum in the concerned country.
An american woman who was sentenced to 30 years for having sex with a 16 (sic!) year old has just been granted asylum in Canada due to “cruel and unusual punishment”. I was pleasantly surprised by this news, as I took it for granted that Canada was one of USA’s sycophants…

A.

Gets more like COINTELPRO every day, doesn’t it.

Sugarboy

I wonder if journalists in Germany are not required to abide by a code of ethics that prevents them, among other things, from acting as Gestapo informers, especially when nothing illegal is being done?

peterloudon

The photograph was taken by Jan H Andersen using a model. Andersen lives in Denmark. His blog is here http://www.jhandersen.com/ and his stock photography collection is here http://www.expozero.com/. The photograph in question can be found in the collection “Death and Suicide”.
Pursuing and harassing a blogger in New Zealand for using a stock photograph from Denmark (with clear attribution on the photograph) is beyond absurd.

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