The world dances to Trump’s tune

The world has been turned upside down and shaken around with such brutal force and dizzying pace in the few weeks since the start of this year it is hard to know how to start writing about any aspect of public life without the beginning being out of date by the time one has penned the end.

Not that this writer uses a pen, but the blogger who favours the longform essay does sometimes feel like a time-traveller from the quill pen age when all the “thinking” and change is being driven by the ultra shortform communicators of X and Truth Social, even though the only significant user of the latter is its owner, Donald Trump.

Trump, of course, since his return to office as US president on January 20, has been in the driving seat of this helter-skelter revolution, kicking ass everywhere from Greenland to Gaza while bizarrely licking one ass that truly needs a good kicking: Putin’s.

The “shock and awful” tactics have not been confined to Trump himself, though. His vice-president, J.D. Vance, is the latest to weigh in, with the infamous Munich speech in which he had the audacity and hypocrisy to take the EU to task for its alleged lack of freedom of speech and democracy – against a background in which his own president has bullied and threatened his critics in the media and attempted to overthrow democracy by force four years ago following his false claims of a stolen election, while more recently attempting to subvert international law by authorising economic sanctions against the international criminal court (ICC) – a court which could potentially see him indicted for complicity in war crimes by Israel.

What does all this mean for MAP radicals and for progressive politics?

Most obviously, and I hate to say I told you so (well, no, in all honesty I feel quite smug about it), we need to face the fact that Vance’s big speech must have been cheered to the rafters back home thanks to its core anti-woke message. In my last two blogs I gently pointed out (gently compared to Trump and his enforcers at least), that some aspects of woke ideology, not least the transgender activist’s insistence that “transwomen are women”, are demonstrably false and for that reason can only be imposed coercively (through “cancelling” etc.), with the inevitable result that most people are alienated.

Some skepticism was expressed here when I suggested that public discontent (not just among the MAGA masses but sensible moderates too) may have cost Kamala Harris the election. I gave some polling evidence in support of this claim, and recently we learned that Trump’s executive order excluding transwomen from female sport was probably the most popular thing he has ever done, gaining the approval of 67% of Democrat voters. Yes, that’s fully two thirds of Democrat voters, and a whopping 94% of Republican ones. We should of course support trans people against unfair discrimination in employment and other aspects of daily life, but the American electorate has overwhelmingly recognised that there are some fair and reasonable limits to the contexts in which transwomen can be considered women.

J.D. Vance, a recent arrival on the world stage, came to prominence with the publication of his best-selling memoir Hillbilly Elegy in 2016, a rags to riches story. His political journey since then has been even more spectacular than his personal one. “Trump is cultural heroin,” he once wrote. “He makes some feel better for a bit. But he cannot fix what ails them and one day they’ll realise it.” One day! But when he accepted Trump’s nomination last year to run for vice-president he evidently decided the electorate could be fooled a while longer.

Fairness, alas, has been conspicuous by its absence from other aspects of the Trump revolution. It will help to focus on the manoeuvrings of Elon Musk, who now figures as the third great ass kicker of the new administration, ensconced in the White House as the boss of DOGE (best pronounced “dodgy”), which gives the richest man in the world the task of being as mean as possible, his brief allowing him to nix money going to everything from international aid to welfare payments for poor and vulnerable Americans. One might think this wide-ranging mission would keep him fully occupied, along with his multiple other jobs (including Tesla, xAI, SpaceX, social media X, and being dad to his eXotically named son X Æ A-Xii plus a soccer-team’s worth of siblings); but, no, back in the distant days of last month, before landing his dodgy DOGE gig, he somehow found time not just to pick a fight with the Labour government in the UK , but to conduct this campaign which such relentless ferocity that prime minister Keir Starmer and co were left reeling and soon bending to his will – with big implications  for policy towards MAPs and child protection.

Having such a big family, Musk might be thought to know a thing or two about the latter, but outward appearances can be deceptive. He has certainly gone out of his way to look the part lately, carrying his cute little kids on his shoulders to a string of high-profile political events and letting them play around the president’s Oval Office desk – possibly to the Donald’s irritation! But is he just cynically using his kids as props for a string of photo opportunities?

That has to be the suspicion when we factor in the manically workaholic drive that took him to the top. Work-life balance? Ha! Just like his factory production, his reproduction can only have been fucking fast and efficient, with not a second wasted on idle canoodling and sweet nothings! As for quality time with the kids, no chance! Musk’s family-man image is a lie, as exposed last year when his now adult transgender daughter Vivian Jenna Wilson gave her first interview, saying he that he had been an absent father who was cruel to her as a child for being queer and feminine.

But putting his little kids in front of the cameras to soften his image and falsely make him appear to be a great dad is the least of Musk’s media sins. Remember that amazing cave rescue in Thailand a few years back? When one of the British divers who played a heroic part in getting young boys to safety was trashed by Musk as a “pedo guy”? The diver lost a libel case after the tycoon’s outrageously baseless remark was presented in court as just a joke, although it had apparently been made in revenge because the diver had rejected Musk’s proposed rescue method. After that, Musk knew he could get away with saying anything about anyone, an understanding he has exploited most spectacularly against key political figures in Britain – his animus latterly driven by the fact that the UK has played a prominent role in attempting to regulate his social media platform.

It all kicked off last year with the horrific slaughter in Southport of three little girls at a Taylor Swift dance class – quickly rumoured on Musk’s by-this-time unmoderated X and elsewhere to have been committed by an illegal immigrant Islamist. Unsurprisingly, the country was soon ablaze with anti-Muslim riots, focused dramatically at times on accommodation for asylum seekers. It now appears the perpetrator, Axel Rudakubana, was actually a home-grown madman from Cardiff, with Christian parents originally from Rwanda.

But the facts were never going to matter to Musk, who notoriously gave a Nazi salute at Trump’s inauguration and whose enthusiasm for Far Right extremism has been further signalled by his support for jailed street thug Tommy Robinson in the UK and the Alternative for Germany (AfD) party in Germany, which alarmingly doubled its vote share in Sunday’s election to become the country’s second biggest party. Ignoring the facts, Musk disparaged the prime minister as “two-tier Keir” for allegedly protecting the interests of immigrants in Britain over those of native-born citizens. He even stirred things up by saying civil war in Britain was “inevitable”.

That was bad enough, but early last month saw a relentless mass strike from his intercontinental ballistic media missiles, even before Trump’s inauguration. It was the anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant theme again, this time focusing on what he called “the Pakistani-ancestry grooming gangs” scandal in a number of towns some years ago. On January 3, Musk posted: “Starmer was responsible for the RAPE OF BRITAIN when he was head of Crown Prosecution for 6 years. Starmer must go and he must face charges for his complicity in the worst mass crime in the history of Britain.”

Wow! I am no Starmer fan, but this is one helluva pork pie. It was actually Starmer, as Director of Public Prosecutions, who launched a big crackdown on the “grooming gangs”, which certainly included some genuinely nasty men who exercised coercive control over girls, a theme I explored in a blog at the time. My piece was called “Street grooming: a nut to be cracked?” and I concluded that action was needed but that the state was using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It was a view I expanded on some years later when giving evidence to the IICSA. See paragraphs 64-71, under the subheading “Localised grooming”.

Musk’s totally baseless attack on Starmer wasn’t even the wildest or most vicious of his allegations. He also lashed out at Jess Phillips, the minister for “safeguarding and violence against women and girls” after she declined a request from Oldham Council for a government-led inquiry into “child sexual abuse” (CSA) in the town. He said she “deserves to be in prison” and called her a “rape genocide apologist”. She told the BBC that the lies spread by Musk (though she reportedly used the polite word “disinformation”) was putting her life in danger – which in my view was not an exaggeration when we remember that two MPs have been assassinated in recent years. Tempting as it is to rub our hands in glee at the likes of Starmer and Phillips getting a taste of their own frequent hate speech (towards MAPs), Musk’s irresponsible style is not the answer.

For the full horror movie of Musk’s “awkward gesture”, see this BBC news video clip.

The immediate consequence of his outrageous “disinformation” was less dramatic than bloodshed but more ominous for the quality of our political life, and potentially for the future of democracy. There was panic at the heart of government. Their confidence already shaken after many months of bad press following a faltering start to their new administration six months earlier, the leading figures in Labour must have thought this sustained barrage of abuse from mighty Musk could truly cripple them, driving their traditional supporters in droves towards the populist Right.

So, when Musk said “Jump!”, it was inevitable they would soon answer, “How high?” He repeatedly called for a fresh national statutory inquiry into child sexual exploitation. The government resisted for a nanosecond but then announced a nationwide review of grooming gang evidence and five government-backed local inquiries. Home Secretary Yvette Cooper has announced a new £10m fund, split into two parts, to tackle grooming gangs and CSA. A three-month national audit led by Baroness Louise Casey would examine gang demographics, their victims, and the “cultural drivers” of the crimes. Secondly, a judge, Tom Crowther KC, would assist in the development of several local reviews.

But there have already been many such reviews in quite recent times, including the IICSA one mentioned earlier, costing a vast amount of money to address largely imaginary problems and achieving nothing. As Boris Johnson put it, in one of his rare truthful utterances, it was all money “spaffed up the wall”. Instead of being knocked off course by a malignant psychopath like Musk, Labour would do better to focus on its more thought-out policies, such as the long-overdue attempt to reduce Britain’s massively excessive prison population, through more rehabilitative alternatives. Even this government’s often misplaced impulse to “protect” youth, who actually need more freedom and decent job prospects, will be better served by its new bill to “target people who groom children into criminal activity, including county lines drug dealing or organised robbery” than by raking through the tired old stuff Musk is so exercised over.

The bottom line is that in this country and America the real “protection” we all need is against the likes of Musk and Trump, not by them. Their idea is not democracy as Abraham Lincoln famously proposed it – government of the people, by the people, for the people – but government of the powerful, by the powerful, for the powerful. Note all those billionaires at Trump’s inauguration, the new oligarchs, or plutocrats: Musk, Bezos, Zuckerberg, now worth the thick end of $1 trillion between them and licking their lips at the fat government contracts and sweetheart deals that are bound to be coming their way, along with others for Trump himself: real estate in Gaza, rare earths in Ukraine. Welcome to the new age of robber barons, the new Gilded Age!

BREAKING NEWS: Like I said, things are moving very fast. Late news coming in after writing the last paragraph above: Trump shares “what’s next?” for Gaza AI video on Truth Social. Also: Ukraine official says minerals deal agreed with US.

DAMP SQUIB, OR STRAW IN THE WIND?

BBC Radio 4’s In Dark Corners, series two, focused on a membership list of the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE), which was brought to the attention of journalist and broadcaster Alex Renton after being held by the police for some years, but later passed into private hands.

Renton had hoped his investigation of names and addresses on the list would expose previously undetected “scandal”, but from his point of view the trail disappointingly led nowhere, as he admitted in his final episode.

By that time, there had already been a discussion about the series in the comments here, in which I had said it looked like being a “damp squib”. I was angered to hear Renton unfairly traducing some fine old friends from the 1970s and 80s, but with many of them now dead this was little more than a private concern for me personally.

The only really interesting revelation, for me, was about PIE members I had not known about, who had kept in the background and maybe joined with assumed names. The addresses alone would not have meant much to those of us who were running PIE. We just used them as a mailing list for our publications.

It was only through the media that we discovered ambassador Sir Peter Hayman had been a member, or the spy Geoffrey Prime. And now, from Renton, I found that Viscount Mersey, a hereditary peer, had been another Establishment figure in our ranks, and there was an unnamed former chaplain to the royal household.

Other members, we were told, included authors, academics, musicians, plus distinguished nature film-maker and TV presenter, Christopher Mylne, who worked with David Attenborough among others. Many of the rest had contributed solidly to society, with over 30 teachers, plus social workers, youth workers, military officers, psychologists and doctors – all of whom Renton had given himself the difficult task of presenting as evil, disgusting, horrible people!

Another point of interest is that Renton ended up giving a plug for Heretic TOC, which he described as a busy forum, ominously adding it was a space where, “In some ways PIE, and its ideas, live on”. So, a space he would clearly love to silence – as would Julie Bindel: see below.

But this is not the only MAP-friendly online space, is it? There are quite a lot of others these days, including Mu, where you can find an excellent episode-by-episode summary and critique of In Dark Corners.

Mount Harry, Alex Renton’s childhood home, near Lewes, in Sussex. The father of Old Etonian posh boy Alex was Baron Renton of Mount Harry, more widely known as Tim Renton, a cabinet minister in Margaret Thatcher’s Tory government. Whereas Tim had a proper job, his expensively educated son has sunk to the level of professional victim and vengeance specialist.

 

IT’S CATCHING: JULIE PLUGS HTOC TOO

The lovely Julie Bindel has given a surprise plug on her substack for Heretic TOC. Thanks, sweetheart!

In an item quite rightly slagging off so-called national hero Peter Tatchell (about whom I blogged), she has graciously given me full credit for my assistance and even given a link to HTOC.

She says that in 2015 she was asked by The Times to interview me. I accepted her offer to chat over a very nice nosh in a posh Mayfair brasserie, during which Tatchell’s name came up. She now reports that in a follow-up email I gave her some useful lowdown about his early work, which included public support for child-adult sexual relations that he later denied, along with treacherous denunciation of MAPs, including me. She said her readers might wish to read a news report she co-wrote for the Telegraph newspaper, “which should give you a clear a picture of Tatchell’s child abuse apologism”. Then she puzzlingly added, “I thought it was worth pondering, however, (which is why I am posting a copy of his email [TOC: mine, not Tatchell’s] to me as well as his blog), why it is that Tatchell gets away with espousing these views?”

Why she thinks adding my email and blog details add anything that will help her readers to “ponder” Tatchell’s dodging of cancellation is a mystery. Maybe she just wants to promote my work because she is a secret admirer? However, that theory takes a bit of a tumble when she refers to my “hideous blog”, adding, “The man is utterly grotesque, and I wish him the worst.”

Let’s say her fandom is a work in progress!

COULD HAVE SAVED MYSELF THE BOTHER

After putting out my marathon slog through the major concepts relating to sex and gender last time, I chanced upon a marvellous article that could have saved me much of the trouble. Titled “Do Sex and Gender Have Separate Identities?”, is an academic piece by Gonzalo R. Quintana and James G. Pfaus that says more or less what I did but in considerably greater detail and with much greater authority.

So, I highly recommend it for anyone who wants to explore the issues further. To facilitate this, I here give my own link to the full paper. The best bit is a brilliant diagram. See Figure 2.

 

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Made a page for French sociologist https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Juliette_Rennes , so her work can be more easily found by others. I will word search my comments and see if there’s other valuable stuff I’ve posted about but not archived – Kerry Robinson and her amazing work, for example.

Might I grasp the top rung for a second to ask if anyone here has ever received new reply notifications from HTO’C? Am trying to reply to Mr Ribbon on matters methinksmoist importante, and trying to estimate what number of you revisit threads, I mean conscientiously? Is this vain of me to even ask? I am not sure!

All this puts me in mindstœffe of a certain famous song line, concerning that which “sank beneath your wisdom like a stone” What if, asked both Bill and Ted at once, “wisdom” equals fixed view and “like a stone” equals that which nobody mise en scène has even mentally accounted for yet?

I get notifications that my comments have been published just fine. Never had an issue.

I’ve never got a notification that someone’s replied to me, I don’t think H-TOC works that way. I just look down and see if someone’s replied. That means I might miss replies if they’re far down the comments section, but usually that doesn’t happen…

So, no issues from moi :p

This only answers part of your question, but I’ve been keeping an eye on the thread, awaiting whatever it is you have to say.

Okeee. Let us do it this way then. First I have to ask if you read all of the piece by Pure Invention author Matt Alt that I linked to? (He is US expat in Japan, married to Jap, both produce anime .

Someone who may be of interest: Dr. Ashwini Tambe, Director of the Women’s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies Program, and Professor of History and WGSS at George Washington University.

Thoughtful things:

1). Reckoning with the Silences of #MeToo (2020)

I’m concerned about how #MeToo has advanced a version of public feminism that is, in some ways, out of step with currents in academic feminism.

>Ain’t that the truth! “Out of step” is an understatement!

2.) The Travels and Appeal of the ‘Girl Child’, in Querying Childhood (2024)

My genealogy of the term ‘girl child’ reveals that from its early moorings in the problem of female infanticide, foeticide, and malnutrition, this interest turned a more specific focus on investing in adolescent girls, with an eye towards their reproductive futures.

“Even at four, Lisa Marie already had a presence that could shake a house like Graceland.”

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=620368447705549&set=a.180264568382608

Saw a post on facebook bout a 32 year old with a 20 year old, (big brother) . girl says its creepy . looked at her profile and lo and behold, a rainbow flag! so yes we must stay away from this rainbow it seems to represent bigotry which is what ive been saying for ages

Some LGBTQ people are great and extremely supportive, and most likely have lots of “problematic” fantasies, age gap or otherwise.

Just ignore the one’s who aren’t cool :p

You mean the ones that are maps/agaps. (Age gap attracted people). My new term. Dont know if thatl catch on.. my friends rainbow person. Her gf told me 19 is to young. Shit. If we cant go with leval ppl. May as well go younger ??

yes! and leonardo caprio can join . legal yeah im rushign to much trying to type. well i can go out with a 16 year old over here i would only be called names or beaten up. i can always pretend shes my dauighter??

Her gf told me 19 is to young. Shit. If we cant go with leval ppl. May as well go younger ??

>What’s “leval people”? People on your “level”? No, wait, you meant “legal” people! I figured it out whilst thinking ’bout it!

And no, don’t go younger. At least, not much younger. Unless you’re getting barely legal teens gunning for you, it’s best to save yourself the emotional pain, the rejection, the harshness from parents and friends. If you’re meeting a 19-year-old who lives on their own, very independent, and wants to date you, then great. But otherwise, probably avoid.

On the other hand, there’s nothing to stop you appreciating a young woman’s beauty! And you can chat, see if you get along, see if she seems receptive. If so, give ’em your number and try setting up a hangout. If not, “meh.” You can’t force a relationship, at least not in the contemporary West. If she’s unhappy or has growing doubts, she’ll leave eventually. Especially if you’re going for young women, who basically every other man who’s not already married or in an LTR, would pay money to spend the night with or even just see nudes of! You’ve got massive competition, so instead of getting upset if things don’t work out, try to relax and just chat to people and see how it goes.

On another note, “age gap attracted people” could catch on. With how obsessed people are by age gap relationships, there will likely be people who increasingly fetishize and eroticize such relationships. They become “exotic,” “special,” something to piss off mommy/daddy/society.

Strange times we live in. My wife was 14 when we met. Her mom let her live with me 2 months after, under one and only one condition: no problems at school. She knew she has no chance stopping it, and she had no reason to even try it. Still together, in our fifties, and loving each other.

Good for you! A beautiful story. The kind that should be shouted from the rooftops, held up as the great and noble ideal society should aspire to: stable, loving, supportive relationships.

That’s what counts. Not something as unchangeable as “age,” or vague as “maturity.”

You could share your story with Marshall Burns, the guy who runs Consenting Juveniles? I don’t know how he’s doing nowadays, but he’s made an effort to collect such stories.

It is “strange times” indeed. My happiest, most wonderful relationship was with someone I met when she was 17. This was lawful and inconspicuous in my case, but we were very far apart in terms of perspective and life experience. She was very childish at the time, which I found slighly concerning but grew to find so sweet and endearing over time. The thought that someone would blindly condemn our wonderful relationship out of hand, and those just as loving and kind but having wider age or “maturity” gaps, disgusts me.

The Antis are sick, IMO. The “hunters” going out and behaving as violent thugs do nothing to impress me. I’ve seen some of the most brain-dead, shameless, disgusting behavior from these “hunter” grifters, often luring men in to messaging a non-existent, barely underage teen who’s not even a “child” by pedo standards.

Every time they’re arrested for being openly violent, having brought the collective image of our species down to the level of wild animals – literal “degeneracy” – is a victory. No “civilized” society should tolerate these pond scum.

With that rant over, do you think your relationship with your wife would’ve happened were you growing up in today’s world, David? Have you and your wife ever reflected on your own relationship in relation to current sensitivities around age gaps?

…rainbow it seems to represent bigotry

Assimilation played a cruel joke. Homosexuals who had previously struggled with the ignorance of the “normative majority” were enslaved by this ignorance, becoming the ones they were fighting against.

Before and since his close association with multi-millionaire MAP Epstein, Trump’s many comments on HOT Lolis include, paraphrased, “If Ivanka wasn’t my own young daughter I’d be dating her.”

https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/17ifsoq/donald_trump_has_petitioned_the_court_to_allow/

Tramp chump Trump TRASHED by Mexico’s Jewish femme Pres Sheinbaum, paraphrased, “Make America free of criminals and sex-offenders. Stop voting them into high-office!”

Pup to Trump, bonus, “Make America Canada’s 11th Province – PUNK!”

Mu has just published a new article on the hypocrisy of America’s obsession with ‘child protection’.

A major purpose of the ‘war on pedophiles’ is supposedly the protection of children. Perhaps the most vociferous aggressors in this regard are the USA and the UK. It is therefore not surprising that, earlier this year, tarty Trump fangirl Anna Paulina Luna (R-Fla) announced she was to re-introduce a set of bills which would, among other things, “mandate the death penalty or life imprisonment for anyone found guilty of ‘producing, distributing, or possessing child pornography”. In this article, we will take a depressing look at MAP oppression in America set against the backdrop of wanton disregard for the well-being of children on its own shores and in the countries whose merciless destruction it actively funds and foments.

https://www.map-union.org/blog/fuck-the-kids-in-every-way-but-that-or-why-america-is-a-hypocritical-monster

Article movedNEW LINK

Tom. does the italicized intro above not veer wantonly off-topic at its conclusion? I’m sorry but my tendention-meter stood right on end! Can I ask Mr Ribbon if he could school me on how including an implicit Israel in the “backdrop” of our piece from the very getgo, will assist us in thinking ways to approach a thing like the abyssal appetite UK & USA have for the Gothic circularity, even singularity, of the CSA narrative? A Gothic circularity that by its nature can have no end, and must continue to devour its limitlessly ref(o)unding source?

Surely what is required for driving any inquiry beyond the further exercising of a fixed view must include as priority some attempt at parsimony? An attempt at that which refuses the evermore burgeoning presuppositions of an established narrative, of which the Israel\Jew/pariah one is the most established of all?

When supposed CFC (sounds like a kind of spray?) must reach for entities (“Palestinian children”) of whom it can have no concrete knowledge at all in order to establish its angle of attack, its purchase on worldly affairs, should we not be asking if this can be real concern? I confess Tom I’m finding it difficult to sort just what is a matter for whom, when all it takes to conveniently quarantine or section our response-ability is the mere fact of various websites being differently located? 

The article deals with the hypocrisy of America’s assumed position of world authority on child protection. It makes sense if you read it. Unfortunately, the article was moved, so perhaps you were unable to read the whole thing. Here it is:

https://www.map-union.org/perspectives/fuck-the-kids-in-every-way-but-that-or-why-america-is-a-hypocritical-monster

I will soon attempt to set up my own resource where I will cover the intersectionality of MAP oppression and other sociopolitical issues.

Uh oh. I have a LOT to add, Mr Ribbon. And I will be an irregular Kunstflieger in my endeavor to stay on-topic, right where spankin’ pappy Tom most needs us to be, even if of course he can’t tell that in advance…(bUt) to prepare you for my wee onslaught, I need y’all to first cop yourselves a goodly load of this here perspective from Japan.

https://open.substack.com/pub/pureinvention/p/boys-vs-girls-japan-vs-america?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=3pkh
w

USA child protection- cutting the penises of babies, jailing teens for sexting, allowing mass shootings in schools.

Is there any good knowledge from this blog… https://maggiemcneill.com/index/subject-index-a-and-b/ has whole section for AoC… age of consent   Ad AbsurdumAs Young As PossibleBait and SwitchDysphemisms GaloreJohn LawStill a ChildThat Was the Week That Was (#47)Too Young To KnowWild Guessing (Part One)Wild Guessing (Part Two) from the The Honest Courtesan I would go through it but I am lighted-headed from blood pressure meds…

Very interesting article. The URL has changed, replace “blog” by “perspectives” in the link.
Despite the objections of some commentators like WJT, discussions of US and Israeli wars is relevant to sexual minorities. For instance, movements for women’s and LGBT rights have an “intersectional” approach, which includes an “anti-colonial” dimension, so in their demonstrations one sees Palestinian flags while pro-Israel groups can be excluded.
This tendency towards “intersectionality” and “inclusion” led to these movements to a virulent opposition to TERFs, who happen to be also the earliest and most virulent anti-MAP feminists.
There is on Mu a guest blog on why the struggle against TERFism is relevant to MAPs: https://www.map-union.org/perspectives/guest-blogs/guest-blog-terfism-or-why-trans-women-should-matter-to-youth-lovers

im that angry i cant even post what i want to say.. i just hope karma can do something.

Yes, it was an extremely upsetting article to write. Going through graphic war footage featuring children was especially horrific. I hated America before, and I hate it even more so having prepared that article.

There will be a lighter version for the UK later this year, hopefully with some input from TOC!

Sex has a fundamentally childishly kinetic aspect and is therefore uniquely suitable for all children. Child protection laws are therefore a forceful (to the point of violence) repression of the child and his or her natural sexual energies. This originated in Protestantism.

Sex has a fundamentally childishly kinetic aspect

> Think you’re on to something there!

So, apropos the initial World Dancing to Trump’s Tune post (never mind this blog dancing to the PruePu(m}p Tune I DIDN’T SAY THAT!) in which fear is expressed that access is being forbidden to important press agencies, I’d like to draw y’all’s attention to this very recent address by PressSec Karoline Leavitt, in which she boldly declares the admin’s all out intent to eliminate the inroads of legacy media and to invite in the world’s “independent journalists, podcasters, social media influencers, and content creators” Now i think that, from any genuinely “heretical” standpoint, this has got to be the good sauce at play, at the very least a crucial hub of discussion from which no person believing s/he knows better than the dominant/default narratives should ever turn away:

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZShLkjfBx/

your thoughts, gentle(wo)men, please..

I enjoy some independent news sources, but one has to be selective. Tucker Carlson is good; Glenn Beck steers too much into fringe right wing lunacy. Infowars has its place. Counterpunch is often very interesting.

For legacy media, Sky News is actually fairly reliable in the UK. Normies find the FT to be dry as sawdust but I enjoy finance. IMO FT is the best paper in the world. Guardian veers into silliness. Times of London is engaging. WSJ very dull, tabloids are comic books.

We surely need a balance of both legacy and independent for the richest potentialities of disseminating events, viewpoints and opinions.

Last edited 7 days ago by Prue

Calls for legal child sex rebound on luminaries of May 68 (The Guardian, 2001)
Informative article, from over 20 years ago!

New organization which may be of interest: Beyond the Plus

Beyond the Plus is an organization for all orientations and identities. […] We believe that the mainstream queer community is too gatekept in who is and isn’t “allowed” to be queer. We rally for the rights of everyone queer, no exceptions. Our main focus is on orientations and identities that aren’t widely accepted, as well as related groups that need liberation, such as MAPs and other paraphiles, otherkin and other transid, and youthlib. We believe that everyone’s attractions and sense of self is valid, and that in order to bring rights for one group of people, we need to stop adding letters to “LGBT” one at a time, and open the flood gates and let everyone queer in.

Beyond the Plus is based in Seattle, WA, United States. This is where we hold our events and where our staff meets to discuss the future of the organization. We also have a significant presence online. This website has a slew of resources, and we have various social media accounts listed at the bottom of the page to follow to get updates and see what’s new.

[Looking to the “staff page,” I recognize two names, one who may like me and one I’m not so sure; the third, I’ve no idea. All the same, I hope they did in-fact get together and have a picnic on Alice Day, and I hope they’re doing well. It’s great to see such dedicated people, doing their bit to improve the world!]

Amnesty International Australia has made a submission to the inquiry into the Online Safety Amendment (Social Media Minimum Age) Bill 2024.

In recent years Amnesty International has documented the harmful impacts of social media on human rights, particularly on the human rights of children and young people. However, social media also allows young people to connect, to learn, and to express themselves. A ban that isolates young people will not meet the government’s objective of improving young people’s lives.

If the Bill passes, social media companies may require all users in Australia to verify their age using biometrics or by uploading documents. This risks the abuse of people’s right to privacy.

>Amnesty International Australia has made a submission to the inquiry into the Online Safety Amendment (Social Media Minimum Age) Bill 2024. If the Bill passes, social media companies may require all users in Australia to verify their age using biometrics or by uploading documents. This risks the abuse of people’s right to privacy.

And all unseen in plain-sight by Amnesty International et al. The horrific Pornography of War & Hate images of kids destroyed and killed, 24/7 approved for all ages in the anti-social Anglo fake so called ‘Family Media’. Plus the anti-social Anglo conflict-culture Worldwide gaming industry.

Consent to Space by 8 or it’s too late!

SeX by Six or your’e in a fix – not yet fucked?

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=122229451772177578&set=gm.2082507842271722&idorvanity=1837762120079630

SeX by Six or your’e in a fix

> No.

> No.

So, SeXy feels by Four wanting more!

Some good news!

Neil Gaiman seeks $500,000 from accuser

Based! Reclaim dat bag!!

Virginia Giuffre, at age 41, has died by suicide. I could be coy and say something like “living a lie takes its toll :p”, but she could well have been dying in hospital after being involved in an unreported bus crash.

Virginia is the woman who claimed Prince Andrew had sex with her when she was 17 – “abused” her – and more broadly that she was “trafficked,” pimped out basically, by Jeffrey Epstein.

The first one I strongly doubt, the second one I don’t. The idea she worked as a massager and glorified prostitute for a hefty wage isn’t surprising, shocking, or unrealistic to me. What is surprising, is the mass panic and conspiracy theories arising after the story made the news.

You heard it here first! The news of her suicide will now make its way over to every media platform imaginable. Expect to see debates, speculation, and eulogies galore!

oh yeh a few people i knew said the P word after that happen .. im not a fan of them anymore… my dad thought he was guilty… in fact far to many people.. so why she kill herself then/ im not to keen on looking it up as soemthign always offends me.. whatever happened it was rather a long time ago, he was about my age? (people calling him a sick old man !)

Yes, the alleged sex would’ve occurred more than 20 years ago.

It is certainly possible that Prince Andrew had *some sort of* sexual contact with Virginia. I’m doubtful, but even if he did, who cares about it beyond the fact that he’d be cheating on his wife if he was married at the time? Having mutually willing sex with a 17-year-old is hardly world ending…

The “pedo” thing is the weirdest, when so far as I can tell, no people before puberty were involved.

As I understand it, Virginia killed herself because she was dying of kidney failure… It has nothing to do with the Royal Family, deceased Jeffrey, or the imprisoned Chislaine.

Conspiracy posters are already pointing to a Tweet she made in 2019 that she wasn’t suicidal, implying that she was killed off. But no, it’s very clear: by 2025, she was dying of kidney failure…

The money she made, the culture of fear, paranoia, and hysteria around sex that she contributed to – none of that could save her from death.

Jeffrey Epstein was a legend and Ghislaine is awesome too. I say this as a moral person. Virginia didn’t deserve to die but she certainly had a wicked streak; Jeffrey was a fairly innocent man, as far as I can tell.

Haha, do you actually think that, or are you memeing us? :p

I just say it as it is: I kowtow to no-one or their absurdly distorted “moral” views. I have no fear to speak my mind on Tom’s generous platform. Epstein was an upstanding financier and global citizen who was cruelly murdered in his cell in a ludicrously silly cover up. Child sex goes on among the world’s élites all the time. The tragedy is that Jeffrey was singled out, and even murdered, by a corrupt (and potentially only middling) authority. Then Prince Andrew was subjected to shocking and horrific treatment, and so was Bill Gates, who even saw his marriage fall apart as a direct result.

i did see a post on quora which said if he did anything it was totally legal in the uk. got 1000 thumbs up. gives you some hope….

Awesome! Reality shining through!

Is the “predator” discourse a particularly American thing? I’m hearing it more from Americans than elsewhere.

It’s so odd to me: I can remember my 15YO peers very willingly and happily seeking out older boyfriends and sex partners. None of us had the language of “predator” or “predatory” then, and none of us thought of these relationships as weird, exploitative, or particularly wrong. They were just a thing.

For me, I never gave it much thought. I thought that, so long as no one’s raping anyone, forcing people to do stuff against their will, it’s all good. That’s what people mean by “consent,” right? It all made sense to me, until I encountered Anti-P discourse and – God help us – the “17-year-old child” discourse.

Everyone trying to overcomplicate sex with their own mental gymnastics…

Certainly, my schoolfriends seemed happy, at least until scandal and panic erupted in one case, and ruined at least two people’s lives over nothing…

My friend at the time, whose unlawful relationship was outside school and so was never reported or made a fuss off, even boasted to me of how great their animalistic sex was. She had scratch marks all down her back, and considered them a badge of honor!

These men were opportunists, certainly, but hardly “predatory.” These weren’t screaming, terrified “children” or people who stayed silent, but incredibly eager and willing students desperate to get some action.

The “predator” discourse is so weird to me. It almost completely denies / ignores the feelings of the younger partner, as if they’re being pounced on, rather than very knowingly wanting, seeking, and finding. “A hostile discourse imposed from outside” is just right, as our dear Tom O said in an interview.

So what of the many people with memories like mine? Do people just retcon them or ignore them? Do they make excuses and exceptions (“it’s different!”)? Selective forgetting? Wilful ignorance? Resolving cognitive dissonance to avoid taboo thoughts / “wrong think”?

Anyway, today I heard this language used, and it felt so, so odd to me… So I came and wrote this! :p

Well if they can make stuff up, then we can call them Nazis right? and not much different from anyone involved in holocaust. or is that too extreme? maybe not…

yeah Matt. Not maybe not, but definitely not. It’s the opposite of extreme, and it’`s paralytically de rigueur Competing for bandwidth on the Holocaust network is like taking one’s pitifully fixed view out for another fun ride in the house of mirrors, and pretending you are able to actually see anything new

extreme? tehnically theres a genocide of SO`s in america.

The Artifice Girl is a 2022 science fictionpsychological thriller written and directed by Franklin Ritch, produced by Aaron B. Koontz and released directly to video on demand (VOD).”The Artifice Girl” stars Tatum Matthews, Sinda Nichols, David Girard, Lance Henriksen, and Franklin Ritch. Agents of a shadowy non-governmental organization discover a revolutionary artificial intelligence (AI) computer program that uses a digital child to catch online PREDATORS. It advances far more rapidly than they could have imagined, posing unforeseen challenges for the relationship between humans and AI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Artifice_Girl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwur0W5PpXE&pp=0gcJCdgAo7VqN5tD

Is the “predator” discourse a particularly American thing? I’m hearing it more from Americans than elsewhere

Yes. Due to the globalist influence of the USA, this victimological newspeak (including the terms “objectification” and “grooming”) began to spread like a contagion, with the help of leftist media and feminists, who seized on it to revive the movement, fueling moral panic in society.

The real groomers are psychotherapists who produce a multitude of quasi-victims so that they come to their confessional and pay, in the hope of being healed from “lifelong sins scars”.

Has anyone watched the recent Netflix series Adolescence? Any thoughts?

There’s been lots of discourse about it lately, so much so that the UK Prime Minister Kier Starmer mentioned it in parliament!

It was brilliant filmmaking! The young actor was absolutely fantastic, giving a bravura performance – in his very FIRST role! I really expected to hate the message, but I didn’t. I also thought that the kid would be portrayed as a monster, though he clearly did a monstrous thing. He wasn’t! Maybe it’s because I’m a boylover (and one who spent five years in the slammer), but I suspect that many viewers reacted as I did, with great sorrow and anguish for what we knew would be his future behind bars. This production took nothing away from that, despite contemporary obligations to focus solely on the victim who, in this case, while tragically murdered, was something of a mixed-bag, herself.

This was a masterpiece and should become an instant classic – and a must-see for any B.L.

A welcome change from Netflix which has otherwise been on a long slide downwards in quality.

Thanks, Tom, it’s been far too long! I’m gratified that you’re continuing to fight the good, if very lonely, fight!

My additional comment about Peter Tatchell will now appear, with your approval, underneath that story. Cheers!

I have to agree with William Costello, currently a PhD student and public speaker who researches self-identified “Incels,” that episode 3 was the best.

The episode focuses on a female psychologist, who the young male protagonist says is “dead pretty.” The tension between the two, arguably a sexual tension, is excellent. There’s an especially tense scene where the boy stands over her, threateningly, menacingly. The boy even mobilizes age norms, invoking his own child-status to mock her for appearing afraid of a kid.

He, like all hetero men – esp. lonely men – just wants a “pretty” woman to be interested in him. He’s desperate for female validation.

The fact she centers him and emphasizes her interest in him, is what makes her especially attractive to this young boy, who is presented as having never known a “pretty” woman’s interest before.

This is undercut by her job, the fact she’s only “interested in him” for work. After he’s opened up to her, been vulnerable and dangerously so, she reveals it’s their last session. He, of course, doesn’t want her interest in him to end; he becomes irate. To me, it mirrors well the grief of a breakup.

Ep. 4, interestingly, sees the Dad’s work van covered with the word “Nonse” (spelt wrongly, with an “s”). “Nonce” is British slang for “pedo,” and this confuses the family (and daughter especially). The boy’s crime has literally nothing to do with pedophilia, age-gap sex, or even sexual activity per se. It’s a sign, an implicit message, that “Noncery” or MAPness, really is the stigma symbol of contemporary times. Instead of writing “murderer,” they write “nonce” – that’s what has the most impact…

I thought it was an amazing short series. We watched it with my wife and both thought it was a best show since Ripley. I had no idea it will become a political topic when we saw it and was surprised when it did. I don’t think authors wanted to make a political statement. BTW, watch Boiling Point movie from the same authors, it is also great.

Yes it has the same style of filming as Boiling Point, which as you say is also great.

Very “real” TV with a focus on situations which are actually possible…

adolescence.. thats a long word for most people ! is it map related? i know theres a 13 year old lad in it. but i assume theres no sex in it. its about knife crime isnt it? so maybe it is relevant, you know, teens do knife crime, so therefore they arent innocent ! remember the bulger killers? 10 years old, and deemed capable and warrant execution! ah, good ol hypocrisy.

If adolescence is a long word for most people, that’s a problem in itself and they need to go back to school. Viva la adult education!! Viva la free education!! An educated society is a better society!

I had someone recently say their were loads of children in the nightclub. They were over 18…. people are beyond ….. thick (uk terminology)

>An educated society is a better society!

No wonder 90%+ kids killing others are unedgukayted Anglos – DOH!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_killers

Generally speaking, violent crime is correlated with poverty, co-morbid with lack of education (since education generally promotes reflexivity and thus empathy). Job losses or significant losses such as relationship breakdown or death of a loved one, can also precipitate crime. Much crime can be linked back to alcohol or drug consumption in some way, since many people turn to these things to cope and feel better during difficult times.

Depends on the type of crime, though. High-level financial crime is a whole ‘nother thing…

Not MAP, but another sick example of grovelling Radio 4th Form oily-eulogizing over Brit oil-painter RAPIST – J.M.W Turner. RAPE not mentioned in the 250th birth celebration ‘Front Row’.

What if he had been a non-rapist benign mere MAP like genius Leonardo?

https://www.isba.org/committees/women/newsletter/2015/02/mrturnerandissuerape

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002b6pd

Last edited 16 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

>Will you now apologise for that, Pup? Will you say sorry to the BBC? No, of course you won’t!

Of course, no apologies now to sorry Beeb or presumptuous TOC with no empathy. For further research into 18th century workplace conditions in London reveal that employer-employee, master-servant, rape was quite common during that time. In fact, female servants were expected to make themselves available to their male masters and other men in the household. These women, like Danby, were poor farmer’s daughters from the countryside who were naive, young and desperate for wages. Although the film director tried to cushion the blow by focusing on Danby’s love for Turner, we need to call it for what it is: rape. And although Turner did not do anything that was out of the ordinary for his time, it does not make it right.

https://www.isba.org/committees/women/newsletter/2015/02/mrturnerandissuerape

Something positive for a change. spoke to a guy last night who said he tries to understand people even pedos . apparently he had fun as a young teen with women three times his age ! so not an anti then… guess he wont judge me if i talked to a 16 year old. alas, most people would.. its very rare i find open minded people.still, i have two friends who are pretty open minded.

Good!

in the past ive spoke to quite a few people who are open minded. but i got carried away and thought everybody was and ive got in trouble for stuff id said as regards, you know…. im not capable of sticking up for myself… oh, one guy did call me N word, so i said you want a fight… he said he wasnt violent. so i just walked off.. he called me names a few times after.. but luckily for me, he moved away…

I came across a video from a Brazilian podcast. I didn’t watch the whole podcast (it’s 3 hours long), but I’ll leave a link with time codes of this moments.

The Brazilian teacher Andrea Vermont told [2:02:00] that 82% of 14-year-old boys and girls (in Brazil) are sexually active, 80% of them do not use condoms. She then told of a case [2:05:30] in which a 13-year-old girl from a prestigious school accidentally became pregnant at a party during an erotic version of “Russian roulette”. The essence of the game was that the girls sat on the boys’ penises until one of them experienced an orgasm. Andrea also mentioned that very often girls engage in anal sex to avoid problems with determining “virginity” during a medical examination.

I personally believe much of that is bullshit. Especially the “Russian roulette” sex play. There was panic years ago about “rainbow parties” where it was claimed that teens were lining up to suck the D with different colored lipstick, thus leaving a rainbow.

Now, I’d love for people to be so fun and open minded, but it’s a very, very, very unlikely situation. Even amongst Kink groups, it’d take lots of organizing and is highly unlikely to occur organically. I saw an article where a teen gal was apparently asked about rainbow parties, and said something to the effect of “Ew, that’s gross why would we do that?” For many it’d be similar with Roulette parties…

I notice you say “prestigious school.” That’s interesting ’cause elite schools are often stereotyped as places of sexual debauchery.

There’s often an implicit attack on one’s moral character, where sex is seen as “bad” or “corrupting,” rather than fun and educational where you learn about yourself and play with social norms.

Also, why would girl’s being having their virginity tested? Is this a Muslim or heavily Christian country? You can test for pregnancy without a hymen examination, so this also sounds weird.

It may be true that lots of 14+ YOs are sexually active (good for them! get in there whilst you can!), but the rest sounds odd… Anyway, thanks for sharing.

Also, why would girl’s being having their virginity tested? Is this a Muslim or heavily Christian country? You can test for pregnancy without a hymen examination, so this also sounds weird.

It’s not about pregnancy. Teenage girls have medical examinations, during which it may become clear that the girl is no longer a virgin. For example, in my country, in this case, doctors are obliged to inform both the parents and the police, in as part of the so-called prevention of CSA.

I notice you say “prestigious school.” That’s interesting ’cause elite schools are often stereotyped as places of sexual debauchery

I just repeated what the woman said. There is a stereotype that minors from poor families are more likely to have sex because of bad upbringing. So it seemed to me that she emphasized that it happened in a prestigious school.

Did i read that brasil has raised the aoc ?? How terriboe. A very christian country which wants to punish oeople for stuff god has no oroblem with ? Okm how high have thet raised it? Im to scared to look it up.

I don’t know if there is any discussion going on there, but I haven’t heard of the age of consent being raised and I haven’t found any news on Google.

thats one of the biggest loads of horse shit ive ever read…. i can only hope whoever made that law gets attacked by an under 18 abroad, see if they think they innocent then….

Even lower-brow level Radio 4th Form, Jonathan Pie sniggers about Beeb MAP Gill and P.I.E.

From 08m.00s: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0029hkx

Man denies damaging BBC’s Eric Gill statue

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyzxy5g2zyo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pie

Last edited 19 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

This is actually some good activism from John Pie. All his stuff is scripted, including this.

He’s deliberately presenting himself as the reasonable one, and his opponents as dumb-ass retards, obsessed with shouting “paedo!” and seeing it everywhere when it doesn’t exist.

Sad if he’s actually being harassed on Twitter, which sounds likely to me. Sounds like he made this as a kind of response to critics. Fair enough. At least he defends Philip Schofield, who’s been unjustly persecuted beyond belief.

Based!

Victor Ronald Salva (born March 29, 1958) is a convicted sex offender, American film director, and screenwriter. The self-described protégé of Francis Ford Coppola, he is best known for writing and directing the horror films Jeepers Creepers (2001), Jeepers Creepers 2 (2003), and Jeepers Creepers 3 (2017).
Salva’s career has been controversial due to his 1988 conviction for sexually abusing Nathan Forrest Winters, the 12-year-old star of his debut feature film Clownhouse (1989), during its production; he also videotaped one of the encounters and was found to possess child pornography, though this was not publicized until 2006. Protests against his films soon followed, including boycotts organized by Winters. Despite this, he has continued to work in the industry and has made the films Powder (1995), Peaceful Warrior (2006), Rosewood Lane (2011), and Dark House (2014).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Salva

The key thread in stories like this, is that they all had key positions and influential careers / positions, before their conviction or scandal.

It’s the young/inexperienced, those in earlier and more insecure positions inside companies and institutions, who are far less able to bounce back if something upsets their career.

There would be an online influencer niche IMO, for Edwards to leverage his knowledge and “access” (whether or not it truly still exists) should he wish or even need to, financially.

When I wrote that comment I had this film director in mind, but also some cases of extremely well-known Japanese manga artists who’ve had great careers following prosecution. The younger, less institutionalized levels of fame artists, fare far worse.

People who lived through Japan’s more liberal era and make big money for their old Japanese companies, https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Nobuhiro_Watsuki and https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Mitsutoshi_Shimabukuro , have their careers intact.

But, I can’t deny that it’s left a huge stain on their legacy, character, and ability to work. Nobuhiro Watsuki, for example, had his manga dropped by Western publishers, whilst in Japan he was able to continue his long-standing, popular series.

I’d reason that it’s mostly cultural attitudes, alongside personal connections built up over years, and a small element of Japanese manga being a male dominated profession at the managerial level.

I mean, I know if I had the power to, I’d keep Watsuki and other’s in work. For me, in a money-based economy, one of the worst punishments is to stop someone from being able to make money. Gotta have that working-class solidarity!

I looked up John King, and he seems pretty cool! Very agentic. He’s not stopped, even after prison. Good for him! From his Wikipedia:

Vile Pervert: The Musical (2008), available for free download, is a 96-minute film in which King plays all 21 parts and presents his version of events surrounding his prosecution. He portrays his viewpoint of the events responsible for his troubles.[137] In one scene King, dressed as Oscar Wilde, sings that there is “nothing wrong with buggering boys”.[137] Rod Liddle in The Spectator called it “a fantastically berserk, bravado performance”.[138]

>usually, once the finger is pointed, there is no coming back, certainly not with a vigorous “bounce”, no matter who you are.

Cept first Post-War Star MAP Ferriday Fireball Killa Lee Lewis. First trashed in May Rockin ’58 by Brit trash tabloids, Weak Yanks fell in line and trashed his U.S. career. But by May ’61 he HIT back in UK charts with “What’d I Say” and on Apr 29 Swingin ’62 Killa BOUNCED back ‘Live’ to short-brain Brits BIG crowd at Newcastle City Hall.

Killa stood UP talked back took no crap off no kinda creep. Killa quote U.S. Showbiz Mag
Variety, Jun ’58, “The press will start a scandal just to sell papers.”

‘Lolita’ was first published in France in Sept 1955 by the Olympia Press and the U.S. in August 1958 by G. P. Putnam’s Sons. Despite initial hesitation, it was not officially banned in the U.S. and became a bestseller. 

May ’93 UK Interview here, from 03m 10s, Killa quote, “No sir she was twelve when I married her..turned 13 about three days later.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqUIcH_McXk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbwpWfixiuY

Last edited 17 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

Jerry Lee Lewis doesn’t seem the best example or inspiration for people to follow or look up to. At least, from a cursory reading of Wikipedia.

His 13YO cousin-wife he married when he was 22, later rebuked him as a cheater and abuser (in the more traditional sense of bad treatment, not the fact of merely having had sexual contact).

I’m sure there’s lots to the story if you go into details, and it’s likely that negative press around their marriage placed great strain on their relationship. But, it’s still no excuse. If you’re going to be in a long term, committed relationship and you’re under heavy criticism from other’s, you either have to suck it up, ignore it and keep going, or break up under the pressure.

As the saying goes “it’s you I’m dating. Not your friends.” The problem is, if the naysayers’ voices are loud enough, persistent enough, impactful enough, or meaningful / significant enough, many relationships won’t survive the pressure. People want to be liked and approved of, or failing that, left alone in peace. That’s tough to navigate if you’re a rock star…

Anyway, treat your partner well or don’t have one: simple! Jerry Lee Lewis is good historical case to explore, but not the best role model or inspiration!

[MODERATOR: Thank you for your lengthy post, APG, but its relevance (if any) to this forum is not well explained. If you wish to post anything else at some later time, please try to get to the point clearly, otherwise your post will risk being deleted as incoherent.]

Just going to say, this study for ‘LAC'(acetyl-L-carnitine) mentioned that the most severe cases of LAC deficiency was in the emotional trauma but no other subgroup of trauma, just saw that maybe it is neuroscience-back ‘Rind confirmation’ of his studies, I don’t know. here is the line of text:

In subjects suffering from MDD, plasma levels of LAC are decreased as compared to age- and sex-matched controls; the degree of LAC deficiency reflected both the severity and age of onset of MDD [51–54]. The lowest levels of LAC in severe clinical phenotypes of treatment resistant depression were also associated with emotional trauma in childhood, but none of the other subscales of the childhood trauma [52]

Won’t link the study but here is the title lol

The neuropsychopharmacology of acetyl-L-carnitine (LAC): basic, translational and therapeutic implications

Rind (ie financial and food insecurity,authoritarian parenting as factors and vectors of harm inductors) many studies showing all those as compounded factors….

FI and ACEs are consistently related. Prevention study interventions should be designed to address FI and problems stemming from ACEs. Filling knowledge gaps regarding the relationship between ACEs and FI is critical for designing nutrition interventions that promote food security, prevent the occurrence of ACEs, and improve health outcomes among vulnerable populations with high ACEs. -Food insecurity and adverse childhood experiences: a systematic review

and

For the Poor, Does Attentional Bias or Worry Explain the Relationship between Financial Stressors and Poor Cognitive Performance? 

yes im talking about 18 year olds as its kinda relevant as it shows how big the problem is with liking younger folk. i am a map? well, the psychiatric guy did threaten to break my legs, so i guess ! but sure i will be looking at legal but frowned upon teens in the clubs….

AI Child Porn Will Probably Save Real Children
Long article by Aella, a famous amateur sex researcher. I hope she will not get too much hate over it:

https://aella.substack.com/p/ai-child-porn-will-probably-save

Aella is based!

One of few people in a position to be remotely honest in the public sphere. That’s who you need on your side, MAPs! Hot, rich, OnlyFans gals! :p

Fragment is on a roll with yet another interview!

https://fstube.net/w/4Tz6VjekVaDVJcMib4Xqw7

[Around 35 mins, research not separating rape from willing cases is brought up, but it isn’t mentioned for ages that there is in-fact research on willing cases. You discuss Rind, which is great, but you could also name drop others easily without losing much time or traction.

Paul Okami, Allie Kilpatrick, Terry Leahy, and most recently the journal issue “Restoring Intergenerational Dynamics to Queer History,” especially Amanda Littauer’s incredible article on “Queer Girls and Intergen Lesbianism”. If you are unfamiliar, search Newgon and you will find summaries of them all. They’re glorious papers, and will fill your heart with joy similar to Hoko Horii’s blessings upon this world.

On Rind: good to bring up, but the Rind team’s study was a meta-analysis of over 50-studies. So it wasn’t just one study! By saying “one study,” you unintentionally downplay its significance! There’s a reason the Antis of the day were afraid!

Also, this interviewer is 19, and frankly knows fuck all about the subject. In an ideal world, he wouldn’t be debating with a whole lot of “I don’t fuckin’ know!” under his belt. Could’ve at least done a cursory glance of google scholar beforehand! Bro didn’t even know who Piaget was! Psychology and child development 101, and yet he speaks about “brain development” with authority!

1 hour in was best bit: talking about iatrogenic / social harm.]

Good stuff, Frag.

Still not quite where I want to be, but I definitely felt much stronger than in the previous interview, controlling the framing a lot more. I really liked my opening, not running from “did you move to Japan for the AoC” but instead saying basically that “if I’m right, then doing so would have been an act of seeking political refuge”. Most antis haven’t even considered the “what if I’m wrong” scenario, so I liked starting with that to seed some doubt.

I could’ve been more precise with my references to studies, for sure. But in these discussions where the other side has literally nothing, I’m not sure if it even matters. He called me out on “anecdotes” when his “evidence” was “I’ve talked to like 4 people about this and my girlfriend experienced CSA”.

But unless I have someone come and approach me wanting a discussion I think I’m done for the time being. My pre-prison legacy should hopefully be enough to tide the community over for 2 years. Hopefully this stuff stays in circulation without being forgotten. Hopefully it’ll give some others the knowledge and the courage to do similar stuff.

After the MrGirl interview the biggest compliment on his discord was “this guy is so smart and well read, so it makes me sad that he comes to different conclusions to me”. They still see me as the “wrong” one, but knowing that my beliefs can be backed up, and strongly, does make them question, even just a little.

A propos Japan, there is currently a mention of a new study by Philip Tromovitch (one of Rind’s colleagues) on Boychat:

https://www.boychat.org/messages/1640273.htm

Warning: long, but hopefully positive post, incoming! :p

On a second listening, I very much agree you did great a leading and framing the conversation.

The whole discussion was a much better back and forth than with Mr. Girl. I first listened led in bed, a charming Fraggy voice whisking me away to dreamland, so I was halfway between wake and asleep and not in the best mood / headspace when I commented. I was a bit harsh towards him, who seemed pretty authentic in fairness, and yourself who’s doing his best and far more than most “activists” will do.

You did great. We are often our own worst critics. I see on MU that you’re quite hard on yourself over what you didn’t say. Instead of what you can’t change, let’s focus on what you did and can do! Try not to beat yourself up over your performance here, especially when it was so good!

We can all improve, wish things had gone differently, or do things differently in the future. But we are where we are. We can’t change the past, as much as we’d like to.

You did great, here and elsewhere. I don’t have an account on Pedi, but I do read your posts. Your contributions over a sustained and relatively short period, have been immense. It shows just how much one person can get done if they’re dedicated. You’ve learnt so much, got medicated for bi-polar which seems to have significantly improved your life, and done much reflection and soul searching.

It might not mean much coming from some randomer online, but there seem to be some silver linings in this situation. Other than what I’ve just mentioned, it sounds like you’ve finally been able to open up to your wife, and will thus be able to live more honestly in the future. A very big deal for your life partner and, at the very least, the mother of your children.

I know it’s likely scary, worrying, or at least unpleasant to think about. But though you may well get a suspended sentence, your life isn’t over if you do get a prison sentence. If this does become the case, and you’d like any of us to write letters to you, please give a mailing address to someone you trust. That could be myself, Tom O’Carroll, Jim, and Matthewyoung, who are IMO the most trustworthy people whom I know you know.

If Peter Melzer were still alive, who you’ve posted about, he’d have written to you. He considered it a form of activism, and kept up letter writing campaigns until his dying day. I am sure some of us would want to write you, so just know that it’s a possibility if you’re interested.

You’ll do fine regardless, IMO. I’ve met multiple people who’ve come out of prison, and whilst most would rather avoid jail altogether, there are positives and silver linings.

I know people who enjoyed having a regular routine, for example, or not having to worry much about money. The possibility for education, study, and building lasting relationships / friendships as well. Some people discover whole new skills, careers and jobs whilst inside. In the UK, Tom O’Carroll studied philosophy with the Open University…

You’re a smart, nice guy, so you’ll no doubt make friends and find ways to entertain yourself.

It’s not all brutal, nasty bastards: you’re not in a California federal prison where they only hire sadists. Many people there will be just like you: pretty chill and easy to be around.

I know a MAP who’s life actually improved after prison, believe it or not. He was open minded, took basic, free / cheap education courses out of boredom, found he enjoyed coding and entered into a much more lucrative career than would’ve been the case beforehand. He also parents from a distance over Zoom / Wattsapp, so if it comes to that, just know it can be done!

FYI: a piece of advice you’ll hear a lot, is to change your name after your conviction is spent. This has helped my friend a lot, and if you’re allowed to, is a very sensible move to make. He liked his old name, but changing it makes his life so much easier.

Remember, not everyone has to know everything about you. And you’re not some monster for having a conviction: good friends of mine have convictions and they’re the most loyal, decent people you’ll find! They just had a hard life, a rough patch, just like you…

But they got through it, and you’ll get through it too. Incarcerated or not, you can still live a great life, find fun things to do, etc. From who I know of, not being privy to your person life beyond public posts: your mother’s there to support you, your wife and daughter, and all of us here certainly wish only the best for you.

I know I’ve said something similar before, but I can say confidently, invoking the hundreds of people who’ve listened to you, the silent people who read your posts and hear your words but don’t speak up for fear, anxiety, or a whole host of other reasons: we’re all rooting for you…

Hi Tom I have a question for you, now I know that you would not recommend anyone holding up a banner with The Paedophile Information Exchange written on it (due to the potential hostile reaction that someone might face) today in protest against the mistreatment that many of us either or have claimed to have been subjected to in todays society but do you regret the existence of P.I.E or do you think it was something that needed to happen?

…under the rising influence of carceral feminism. Feminism from the 70s to the mid 80s was not sexophobic.

Didn’t we have a similar chance round about 2018 when a number of people in the UK (including myself) and in the US had a go as well? but it didn’t seem to last very long for some reason, now I believe that activism re homosexuality was a thing in the 70s but other than that I can’t see why we didn’t last as long as P.I.E did maybe others here might have an idea as to where we went wrong on the 21st century?

Just bumped into a videowithsomeone calledsadie sink defending age gap between 18 and 30. Oh wow the bigotry in the coments ! Are people really this evil? Are these thesame people who wave rainbow flags and saying they are open minded and love is love ? It seems so. The will to live shrinks….

I recently saw a rainbow person call a man who wanted to meet boys from 18 to 22 a “pedophile”. According to this eminence, boys of that age are very manipulable and, if a man seeks them out, it will be because he wants to abuse them. That’s the way rainbow people are. I want nothing to do with them, zero contact.

Other than that, there seems to be a tendency in society lately to criminalize mature men who prefer to have contact with older young men. Perhaps it is not enough to treat pedophiles as witches or Jews and we need to broaden the targets. The stupidity and wickedness of people knows no bounds.

Last edited 22 days ago by ConfusedMan

the irony people used to think that gays wanted to abuse. see 1950s PSA america! yeh but we cant say anything about that flag can we? if we cant like overage people then what hope is there? my friend and her girlfriend are rainbow people. my friend kinda understands where im coming from but her gf says 19 is too young (this is before i even spoke to the girl, as if im going to jump on them?) along with my nephew not letting me speak to girl he knew as creepy and the barmaid when i asked about new barmaid she saidshes 18 that would be weird am i a map? i like girls from *& years to, um 30 ish.

HTOC, MU, and others not on official Wiki current list?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pedophile_advocacy_organizations

Last edited 22 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

Being on that Wikipedia list is not exactly a priority. Mu likes coverage that publicizes our cause, even when critical, but this list simply states basic facts in a condemnatory tone without providing links to the actual websites or talking points of the organizations in question. I see little benefit in having us listed there.

The current ongoing journal debate between Harper and Salter (their replies to one another are already available via Sage) could potentially inject a lot of information about present day MAP organizations into the WP:RS sphere. In other words, material Wikipedia considers to be “reliable” and quotable.

If that blows out into a full Rind-scale controversy via a snowball effect, I could see both the abovementioned article, and the other article on pedophile advocacy in general, being restructured, updated and possibly renamed, in which case there might be more of a case for being listed there.

The parents, concerned about their son’s prospects for future happiness and sexual function without a penis, took him to Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore in early 1967 to see John Money,[10] a psychologist who was developing a reputation as a pioneer in the field of sexual development and gender identity, based on his work with intersex patients.[11]

Money was a prominent proponent of the “theory of gender neutrality”—that gender identity developed primarily as a result of social learning from early childhood and that it could be changed with the appropriate behavioural interventions.[12] The Reimers had seen Money being interviewed in February 1967 on the Canadian news program This Hour Has Seven Days, during which he discussed his theories about gender.[13] At that time, surgical construction of the vagina was more advanced than construction of the penis, and Money believed that Reimer would be happiest in adulthood living as a woman with functioning genitalia.[14][15] Money and the Hopkins family team persuaded the baby’s parents that sex reassignment surgery would be in Reimer’s best interest.[16] At the age of 22 months, David underwent a bilateral orchiectomy, in which his testes were surgically removed and a rudimentary vulva was constructed by genital plastic surgery.[17] David was reassigned to be raised as female and given the name Brenda (similar to his birth name, “Bruce”).[18] Psychological support for the reassignment and surgery was provided by[19] John Money, who continued to see Reimer annually[20] for consultations and to assess the outcome.[21] This reassignment was considered an especially important test case[22] of the social learning concept of gender identity for two reasons: first, Reimer’s identical twin brother, Brian, made an ideal control because the brothers shared genes, family environments, and the intrauterine environment; second, this was reputed to be the first reassignment and reconstruction performed on a male infant who had no abnormality of prenatal or early postnatal sexual differentiation.[1]

Forced “sexual rehearsal”
Money reported on Reimer’s progress as the “John/Joan case”, describing apparently successful female gender development, even after David informed his father at age 14 that he had always felt that he was a boy, bringing the experiment to an end.[23]
According to John Colapinto, who published a biography of Reimer in 2001, the sessions with Money included what Money called “childhood sexual rehearsal play”.[24] Money theorized that reproductive behaviour formed the foundation of gender, and that “play at thrusting movements and copulation” was a key aspect of gender development in all primates. Starting at age six, according to Brian, the twins were forced to act out sexual acts, with David playing the female role—Money made David get down on all fours, and Brian was forced to “come up behind [him] and place his crotch against [his] buttocks”. Money also forced David, in another sexual position, to have his “legs spread” with Brian on top. On “at least one occasion” Money took a photograph of the two children doing these activities.[24]
When either child resisted these activities, Money would get angry. Both David and Brian recall that Money was mild-mannered around their parents, but ill-tempered when alone with them. When they resisted inspecting each other’s genitals, Money got very aggressive. David says, “He told me to take my clothes off, and I just did not do it. I just stood there. And he screamed, ‘Now!’ Louder than that. I thought he was going to give me a whupping. So I took my clothes off and stood there shaking.”[24]
Money’s rationale for these various treatments was his belief that “childhood ‘sexual rehearsal play'” was important for a “healthy adult gender identity”.[24] Both David and Brian were traumatized[24][25] with Brian speaking about it “only with the greatest emotional turmoil”, and David unwilling to speak about the details publicly, although his wife, Jane Fontane, stated that David had privately told her the same story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

See also Hermaphrodite Herculine BarbinGenital modification and mutilationHistory of intersex surgeryNature versus nurturePenectomyEunuch

Last edited 23 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

>My late friend Richard Green knew Money well and liked the guy. I think he would have sussed out a bully.

Maybe ‘authoritarian’ more than ‘bully’. Kids can be mentally-emotionally ‘abused’ by strict adult authoritarians. Not least when ordered to act out intimate behaviors with another child, nowadays surely ‘Abuse’? E.G. “Abuser Money, retro struck-off! Much money awarded to ‘MeToo’ victims, survivors and families.”

Trust me, I’m not a doctor.

Last edited 23 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

I would largely second Tom’s comment. I never got the chance to meet John Money, but the few I’ve met who did speak of him positively.

But, he was also well known as resenting criticism, and it is possible he was short-tempered with these boys, not always jovial and patient as is expected of contemporary sensibilities.

John Money famously had a fued with Milton Diamond, throwing a punch at him at a conference over Diamond’s published criticism of his work. I recall Richard Green writing that he and Money were distant for some years over criticism of his work, but reunited later on.

I wrote a page on Money where I tried to put the Reimer case in perspective: https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/John_Money

I wrote:

Money is often associated with and criticized for his involvement with David Reimer, a Canadian man born male but raised as a girl after his penis was severely injured during a botched circumcision in infancy. Money performed sex-reassignment surgery on Reimer and oversaw his case. He felt this was a success, and other scholars including Vern Bullough and Richard Green feel his actions were appropriate and justified in context.[1] However, Reimer himself was later unhappy in life and eventually killed himself.[2]

Money is also claimed to have instructed and/or forced Reimer and his brother to strip naked for genital inspections and engage in sex play together when they were 6 years old. In “at least one occasion” Money is claimed to have taken a photograph of the two children performing these acts, though we are unaware if any such photo has ever been produced as evidence.

More broadly, we must bear in mind that both Money, Reimer, and many other people involved are now dead. We are arguing over interpretations of history, and there are now tons of journalists, writers and researchers who have a vested interest in monstering John Money.

He has become a kind of scapegoat used to attack the Transgender movement. Reimer’s suicide is held up as a reason to rubbish the idea of tolerating or accepting gender non-conformity in childhood. And, perhaps, used as a Trojan horse to undermine the whole idea of transness and gender transition itself.

Needless to say, I approach all of these claims with skepticism, and err on the side of caution in the belief and knowledge that most people do what they think is right, kind and proper. In the case of a medical doctor who performed pioneering procedures, made huge contributions to knowledge, and defended the Hippocratic Oath against the law which turned Doctors into agents of the State (mandated reporting), I believe John Money thought he wasn’t doing any harm. I doubt he was a Saint, but everything I’ve read of him gives me reason to believe he thought he was acting in people’s best interests, going on information and ideas available to him at the time.

Of course, I’m not currently a Youtuber and cannot produce glossy, highly edited videos with spooky music like many conservative channels featuring Dr. Miriam Grossman can, so it doesn’t matter much what I think at present. They will persuade the masses.

But, FWIW, that’s my perspective.

RIP John Money; RIP David Reimer.

Well put, as per usual, Prue.

In context of that time, 6yr olds were mostly to be (ob)seen not heard. And this pup at 6 endured an unwanted anal examination by holiday home child-care staff asking if my toilet paper was red when wiped, I replied “Yes” and they went into full ‘protection’ mode with vaseline and medication. Later, rightly reported to my parents who then informed them that I was color blind and hardly knew red from brown. So some other kid was bloody sick but neglected while I was healthy and unnecessarily ‘abused’.

Last edited 22 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

Further to earlier informed comments and enquiries. On two small boys not ‘consenting’ therefore ‘victims’ of sexual activities severely demanded by an overbearing adult male, also photographing those non-consensual activities.

Surely, here at HTOC of all places the glaring omission is ‘Empathy’?

Last edited 22 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

Facts as described, do include

[MOD: Sources, please, if you’re going to make strong allegations against individuals.]

>[MOD: Sources, please, if you’re going to make strong allegations against individuals.]

Strong observations respected in most robust academia. Or will accurately negative comments on the turncoat coward Tatchell be cancelled too?

[MOD: Negative comment by me on Tatchell was unimpeachably sourced to the man’s own published words, dug out from an old periodical in the British Library. Anyone in doubt can check this from the blog in question, where a facsimile of the key article is reproduced: https://heretictoc.com/2021/06/21/gilt-is-stripped-from-saint-peters-halo/%5D

This pup’s ‘money’ is always on the evidence.

[MOD: But you do not give any! If you did, I would run it.]

Last edited 20 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

This made me LOL

this pup at 6 endured an unwanted anal examination

Sounds wild. Sorry to hear it.

Just been suspended from Quora. you will never guess why? The first amendment needs to be applied EVERYWHERE . NOW

Below, I posted MAP activist Fragment’s interview alongside his mother. Now, he has been “interrogated” as the title puts it, by none other than Max Karson, better known as Mr. Girl. Famous for a positive review of Netflix’s movie Cuties, in which he said the girls’ (particularly “the blonde one”) were “hot,” Mr. Girl is known for his engagement with sensitive topics.

You can listen to the audio of Fragment and Mr. Girl on Freespeechtube: https://fstube.net/w/mr65XF5wBrygg4VGjAccb5

I made notes whilst listening, and read the ongoing discussion thread on MAP Union. FWIW, my thoughts most align with PorcelainLark’s comment on page 2.

Overall, you did brilliant, Frag. Wonderfully. Very proud of you.

I listened at 1.5x speed, so I didn’t get as much silence / dead air as on normal speed. But, “letting it hang” is one of Mr. Girl’s debate tactics, and you navigated it beautifully. I think you feel it went badly bc it didn’t end on a strong note, and the tone of the whole convo was negative: being grilled and called a “predator” for an hour. You kept your cool and remained articulate regardless.

To respond to Mr. Girl a bit:

  • He’s right about parents’ “justified paranoia,” but ofc you’re trying to argue that they should listen to their son / daughter and find out how they feel first, find out if they’ve been forced into sex they did not want, and not react hysterically or angrily to the young person’s disclosure. In a better world, they’d already know about, and be able to speak about intergen relationships openly, as was the case in the Netherlands not so long ago. You’d just be known as their older boyfriend / girlfriend. He asks how people would meet ust the same as adults meet – in school, out ‘n’ about, or online.
  • There’s power differences in all relationships. Power differences don’t invalidate a relationship. They don’t make you care about each other less, love or fancy less. You can still be kind and have good times. And that “power” can be useful (more money and resources to take a sex partner out somewhere, for instance). It’s about how power is used…
  • He brought up teacher-student sex. I wrote a debate guide for this with good quotes you might find revealing and helpful. Also, he snuck it in, but no, there’s nothing wrong with a 25-year-old student dating a teacher. Adults can consent, and children can too! If you’re dating a teacher who gives you better grades for sexual favors, that’s the problem, not the mutually willing sexual contact itself!
  • Related, there’s no “contradiction” around 47 mins – young people can “consent” (say yes, I want this, yes that feels good, yes I fancy him / her, etc.), and do all the time despite legal and social strictures. I was a horny 11-year-old desperate to shag my teacher! That’s not uncommon or unusual, and by 13-16 it was an everyday talking point, esp. amongst the male students. You can even find scholarship on the “sexual harassment” of schoolteachers by the students, that’s how crazy horny some young people are! So no, Mr. Girl, 13 and 16 year olds may be different in age and developmental sexual maturity, but they both have sexual feelings and desires, the capacity to say “yes” or “no,” to walk, talk, fight, love and have sex, all the same. Every person is different, and he’s trying to flatten that difference into an image of what all 13-year-olds are like, when no two people are the same…
  • You did well, Frag, to navigate him trying to pin you down to a “yes/no” binary, often saying “it’s more complex” or following up your response asap. This is good; don’t let them pin you down.
  • The “lacking empathy” claim at the start is odd: you certainly don’t lack insight!
  • The past shows us different ways of doing things are possible, which is why early gay scholars would often appeal to ancient Greece in their arguments for social change from the 1950s on. He tried to stop you from bringing up other societies and past examples, because it upsets him.
  • Past societies like the Dutch model, show just how unnecessary all the moral panic and hysteria is, just how functional and normal these mutually willing relationships have been and could be. And, by implication, how much harm and damage the Antis have been complicit in. That’s why people are so upset: it resolves the cognitive dissonance. They know they’re destroying innocent people’s lives, ruining their kids’ childhood by trampling over their wishes and telling them they’ve been “raped” and “abused” from consensual sex, undermining their sense of agency and reason and mental confidence itself. Confusing the shit out of them, involving them in lengthy and emotional court trials, inflating the seriousness of a handjob to world-ending proportions.
  • When parents are watching other parents, not wanting to feel like a “bad mother” (or father) – when social media chatter can make or break you – it becomes so much easier to go along with things the way they are. The social and personal costs to questioning any part of the age taboo / age apartheid can be immense, as Mr. Girl himself has experienced…
  • You started discussing research, which I felt you could’ve expanded on, but he cut you off and made it difficult at this point and many others, so you did well and said enough anyways.
  • He kept saying “it’s illegal for a reason,” appealing to current social norms. Thank god you called him out with your “recency bias” comment! I mean, come on, is Mr. Girl about to tell us that blacks were slaves, gays should be pariahs and forced into therapy, women can’t have bank accounts, etc., “for a reason,” rather than interrogating that reason? What do you think most 13-year-olds don’t know that makes them unable to consent, Mr. Girl? If it’s just about law, then could Brazillian young people “consent” before their age of consent was increased recently?

>If it’s just about law, then could Brazillian young people “consent” before their age of consent was increased recently?
For a moment i froze reading this. I though i did miss something because Brazil’s age of consent is 14 since 1940.
An interesting fact, is that the legislator at that time think that consider people of 14 incapable for consent to sex was “hypocritically abstract reality” and that it was a contemporary fact that people at such age have at least some knowledge related to the sexual life. Sounds like at that time people understand lack of consent as complete inscience of sexual facts, while today people are always casting a doubt about imbalances of power and knowledge and responding to this with the framework of victimization.

Nothing wrong with 15 year old dating teacher. although the authorities will make sure the girl suffers. see video on fstube. im down as ephebofreedomfighter

Prue thoughts on second-watch!

You can respond to his “you like the vulnerability of kids” argument, by saying that you’d in fact love a world where the young were highly educated about sex and sexual diversity, were super knowledgeable, articulate and agentic. Had lots of freedom and independence, similar to young people from the 1960s and past eras.

From what I’ve gathered on forums, MAPs tend to love the idea that a young person is knowledgeable, clearly wanting, and initiates: they’d prefer that be the case overall. It’s weird that Mr. Girl argues that “helplessness” is what’s found attractive.

I’m glad you framed broad, hostile social responses as “extreme.” Also, calling Japan “progressive” in some respects, bringing up relaxed intergen public baths, was good framing.

Mr. Girl can’t seem to fathom that you’re facing potential jail time and deportation over what he sees as a small, insignificant age gap. But for the rest of us, it comes across clearly that your judgement was impaired due to mania and bipolar disorder. You come across as an unfortunate individual who’d never acted this way in his entire career so far, meaning it was out of character for you.

“For you to watch them grow, it implies they’re underdeveloped.”

> Everyone changes over time, and it’s a wonderful thing to see if you’ve had a big part in a positive change for someone. This can happen at any age, but is most evident with people who lack experience, who tend to be young. Also, yes, you have a sexual preference for people in an earlier stage of sexual maturity, no shit. “Underdeveloped” to Mr. Girl and me, perhaps, but to you I’d guess they’re juuuust right? A stunning lack of empathy from Mr. Girl here…

I was somewhat surprised you didn’t name drop Norman Douglas, when mentioning that you could have a lifelong friendship with a former sexual partner. It’s an example where this occurred, with letters from the former boys themselves to evidence their feelings.

The fact you say you’d rather a loved boy go on to have normal hetero relations, have his own family etc., fits with the evolutionary/adaptive thesis that sees MAPs as preparing the young for their future sexual life. I’m thinking of Azande “Boy Wives” and the Sambia in New Guinea. The latter of which, like Japan in recent times which you mentioned, has seen its tolerant and relaxed approach to age and sex fall to the wayside under the pressure and influence of the West. Especially America, the evil empire.

“You lose the empathy when you rationalize it”
> NO YOU DO NOT! Keep explaining, keep pointing out hypocrisy, keep making them think!

He’s trying to resist empathy, thinking what it’d be like if his sexuality was outlawed and subject to the same scrutiny where you can’t even talk to a potential romantic / sexual interest without coming under suspicion.

The irony is, that after #MeToo and Man vs. Bear, heterosexual men have started to come under immense scrutiny, being widely cast as “dangerous” and “predatory.”

The reality is that many people may want to have sex with you, but don’t want to rape you.

Finally, let’s be clear: an argument can be self-serving, but that doesn’t make it wrong or incorrect.

I’ve met gay scholars who conducted research with very self-serving, “oh, that’s convenient, gayness is totally normal then” research, even during the 1980s when it was still dangerous to publish on. The fact of something being convenient for you to believe or find, doesn’t make the findings false or arguments incorrect. I don’t care about your identity, I care if you make good arguments, cite credible sources, etc., not if you’re gay, straight, or whatever.

Again, you did great Frag.

Mr. Girl’s finale, posturing that you should “stay away from kids for the rest of your life,” may sound good to him and other Antis, but reflects again a lack of empathy.

Telling a teacher who loved their job and has only ever known working with children, to never be around them again, is frankly ridiculous and asking a lot. It reflects the hysteria that MAPs are on the prowl, ready to grab the next kid they see on the street, rather than the reality that you had to be suffering from mania to slip up and break the law after at least 10 years of teaching with no issues.

It’s good that MAPs aren’t all the “predator” discourse makes them out to be, because it’s nyon impossible to avoid children and young people in daily life. A more constructive response would consider what kind of roles you might be good at and enjoy that, since you may not be allowed to, don’t involve working with legally defined minors.

Your priority now, may well be to focus on strategies to secure a non-custodial (non-prison) sentence, which thankfully your lawyer is apparently keen to work on.

Good luck Frag. Keep going. Keep being your lovely self.

..his “you like the vulnerability of kids” argument…

This “argument” ruined the interview for me. Only sadists are attracted to vulnerability. This point was an attempt to play on the misunderstanding of attraction in the eyes of the antis, for whom it will look “logical”. MAPs, like most people, are attracted by a set of phenotypes and behavior patterns, and not by illegality and prohibition. Just because minors would be more autonomous wouldn’t make them any less attractive.

To counter these manipulations, it is necessary to emphasize and illustrate that openness and awareness will increase the safety and get better the mental health of minors, who will not have to experience pressure from authoritative adults and services

Thanks for the support, Prue.

The interview I did yesterday was much better.

A less experienced interviewer, asking nothing unexpected.

Plus I was able to implement some of the things I’d reflected on after my interview with Max.

My prison sentence will very likely begin in the summer. I’m glad to have been able to leave something of a legacy to the community before then.

Thanks for the support, Prue.

> Always xoxo

During World War Two, the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands turned three teenage girls into fierce resistance fighters. Truus Oversteegen, Freddie Oversteegen and Hannie Schaft have been remembered for their technique of luring collaborators into the forest for them to be executed.

Two teenage girls killed nazis during WWII. now of course they are completely incapable according to USA, etc!!

the attempt here to characterize “adult supremacy” straight off the bat by the “genocide against children in Gaza” is not only the most tendentious thing i’ve read all week but word up to TO’C that we can only pretend now to section all these things into appropriate topic-zones when in fact they have long become one.giant intersectional clusterf**k with Israel at its heart from which no conscientious intellect may any longer get out of argument-jail free..

I personally think that acknowledging that young people have sex with one another regularly is important, and I think *some* currently illegal arrangements like a 16 year old having sex with a 20 year old might in some specific situations be non-traumatizing, empowering, and not wrong.

-Dr. Devon Price, in a comment under his article ‘Abolish Age’ (linked below).

Bro’s flying close to the sun. He’s being honest and authentic online – a very bold move!

This is how it starts, Devon. You start noticing one spot of bullshit, and you start seeing it everywhere. Stay in relative obscurity, don’t record yourself talking about it, and you’ll be fine. If anyone wants to comment on his Substack articles, I reckon he could be nudged into further heretical thought. At least, he might actually read and politely respond to things you say; he’s currently very open-minded, it seems.

Asking him if he’s heard of X, what he thinks on Y, is probably the best approach.

Learning about kids being placed on the sex offender’s register, being charged as creators and distributors of CP, creators of “self-generated abuse material” for taking their own nudes, would break his brain with how ridiculous it is. Simultaneously ‘innocent’ whilst knowingly sexual, he’d definitely like Kerry Robinson’s work. If you sprinkle in mentions of pro-c “indigenous” cultures, via Stevi Jackson (appeal to his feminist sensibilities), the Trobriands, or Gilbert Herdt’s semen-drinking-makes-you-a-man Sambia people, there’s a high chance you’ll plant the seed for further heretical thinking. He’s halfway there already.

Abolish Age – Every person deserves both freedom and support — no matter how long they’ve been alive (Substack, April 7, 2025).

Interact with Minors – Video Version (Substack, April 3, 2025). Also on Freespeechtube: https://fstube.net/w/54WFzrf73Sev67LkmoMrjv

Someone’s been having heretical thoughts!

Devon Price is an American social psychologist, blogger, and author focusing on autism. He is best known for his books, Unmasking Autism: Discovering the New Faces of Neurodiversity and Laziness Does Not Exist, as well as for publishing shorter pieces on Medium and Psychology Today. Wikipedia

Last edited 27 days ago by Prue

Tom I don’t know if you have read Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World (I have not but am aware of various lines about a dystopian future) — It came up in a video conversation and some lines were quoted regarding kids being sexually promiscuous in Huxley’s book, doesn’t sound much of a dystopia regarding that unlike age-apartheid today. In this article the writer discusses how despite Huxley seeing a highly sexual society as negative — distract/control through hedonism. it can be liberating too. Also mentioned is a book by Marge Piercy — Woman On The Edge Of Time.
https://confluence.gallatin.nyu.edu/sections/research/sexual-liberation-as-a-characteristic-of-utopia

There’s nothing dystopian about sex with children. It’s the sweetest and most innocent thing in the world. It’s pure joy.

A new lot of ganja?

Love to see “age apartheid” being used here!

Child Bride of Short Creek is a 1981 American made-for-televisiondrama film written by Joyce Eliason, starring Christopher Atkins, Diane Lane, Conrad Bain, Helen Hunt and Dee Wallace. The film is a dramatization.

Loosely based upon the 1953 Short Creek raid that had occurred in Colorado City, Arizona, and Hildale, Utah, United States. Collectively known as “Short Creek,” a community of members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a group that practices child marriage and polygamy.

Recalls WAY backwoods cuntry-folk song, “Cripple Creek gals half-grown, jump ohn a man like a dawg ohn a bone.”

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=Child+Bride+of+Short+Creek

https://www.amazon.com/Child-Bride-Short-Christopher-Atkins/dp/B077697MNC

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=youtube+child+bride+of+short+creek

MAP podcast Little Nicky, interviews the Australian MAP activist Fragment, alongside his supportive mother. Watch and listen on Freespeechtube:

https://fstube.net/w/xd1o7ctj2s51v97EVZhwHs

Very interesting. Thanks, Prue.

Another interesting interview with Fragment, by MrGirl. I don’t think it went well. Definitely worth listening – food for thoughts:

https://mrgirl.substack.com/p/interview-with-the-child-molester

Thanks, I’ve commented above about this. What dya think didn’t go well? Could Frag have done much differently, under the circumstances?

Best ~

No, I think Frag did well, but the overall feeling of mine is that it didn’t went well irrespective of that.

MrGirl raised some valid points. Even I, as a MAP (a paedophile, actually), without any time pressure, listening while mowing the lawn, have found some of the MrGirl questions very challenging and difficult to answer or argue with.

Now imagine a regular person listening. Although it was not the conclusion of the interview, I can see people coming out of it with a clear view: “Hell yeah, all pedos are predators.”

Am I a predator? No, I am not. That’s why I think everyone should listen to this, think about it, and learn from it. It is not common that we are allowed to express our views to public, so when get the chance, we rather be prepared.

Benjamin Doyle: Unclear if Green MP returning to Parliament soon after threats, New Zealand Herald (April 6th, 2025).

Doyle hasn’t been at Parliament since social media posts they shared to a private Instagram account – called “biblebeltbussy” – prior to becoming an MP resurfaced and began circulating widely online.

New Zealand’s first non-binary MP, Doyle shared posts of his son, including a photo of a fatherly kiss on the lips, to his “Bussy” account. “Bussy” means “Boy Pussy,” often used by Femboys, Trans, and gender non-conforming people online. Broadly, it has nothing to do with MAPs, but because his posts involved a real and unambiguous “boy” the connection is being made.

The fact he used a snail emoji on the post kissing his son, has also been perceived as signaling to the MAP community.

Yes, there’s a semi conspiracy theory about the snail emoji, which is funny bc if you shout loudy enough as the Antis do, MAPs will pick up on it like a self fulfilling prophecy. I guess what I’m saying is, snails are based…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Doyle

The classical Age of Reason was 7, knowing basic right from wrong.

F.B. Kid sussed SeX at six.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3022320251266966&set=a.177774789054874

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup

>The classical Age of Reason was 7, knowing basic right from wrong…to lie, cheat, steal, kill.

While for 4-centuries ongoing Worldwide the so called ‘adult’ anti-social Anglo Fascists still don’t deliver those basics. History’s worst still perversely posing as ‘World Best’ – WTF?!

If you ever needed more evidence that neotenous women, who tend to be young, are generally found most attractive and are not always over the magic line of age 18, check out the TikTok/Insta dance group the “Bop House.”

It’s a bit like a kinky house, but for social media follows and easy money, rather than exploring or fulfilling sexual fetishes. As know your meme puts it,

The Bop House is a content house consisting of several prominent OnlyFans creators, including Sophie Rain, Aishah Sofey, Summer Xiris, Camilla Araujo, Julia Filippo, Alina Rose, Ava Reyess and Joy Mei.

An editorial tells us that after its founding in Dec 2024, by Sophie Rain who made over $40 million from OnlyFans at age 19 in 1 year, it quickly gained millions of views. The group mostly upload cute, silly, clean and attractive, but in no way nude, dance and lip-dub videos. However, they went through controversy after they considered including Piper Rockelle in the house, a TikToker with over 12 million followers, who was 17-years-old at the time.

She did make a well-known, short (as they tend to be), cute TikTok dance with a few of them (seen in the middle here, with Sophie Rain to her right). Due to the drama, one member cried on video and quit, but the narrative was that Piper did not in fact join the group.

The House reportedly made over $10 million a month at one point. So, in reality, Piper and other young women will just wait till they’re 18 to get involved, practicing their dancing, makeup, camera angles in the meantime.

>If you ever needed more evidence that neotenous women, who tend to be young, are generally found most attractive and are not always over the magic line of age 18, check out the TikTok/Insta dance group the “Bop House.”

Channel 4’s, 1982 MiniPops programme began attracting criticism from commentators in the British media for the portrayal of children in this manner.[4] One caller on Channel 4’s Right to Reply programme stated, “Minipops should be called MiniWhores. Are you people out of your mind?”[3][5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minipops

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=JFG67rSxHAM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcCO5LvPfTg&pp=0gcJCfcAhR29_xXO

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup

The “Miniwhores” comment is funny, but a TV show from the 80s doesn’t signify clear popularity like an OnlyFans creator making $40 million in 1 year at 19. And then linking up with other, similar creators who’ve all got millions of followers, all conspicuously around 17-21 years old.

You could look at the ratings for MiniPops to estimate its popularity, but I doubt they’re comparable to Sophie Rain and the like.

There may well be pre-pubescent child stars or models who have millions of followers on TikTok and Insta, I wouldn’t know, but I strongly doubt there’s many.

People of 14, 15, 16 and 17, sure. But pre-pubescents… not so much.

In my view, “paedophilia” in the clinical sense is unusual, non-normative. I just don’t believe that we should be nasty to people over it.

For parents who are concerned, just be mindful of the company your children keep. The constant panic and fearmongering is way OTT.

The panic would be unnecessary, except for the fact it’s become a highly successful political tool, to stoke backlash against sexual and gender diversity. Libsoftiktok, etc.

Building up an association between drag performers and pedophilia, for instance, which led to the Club Q shooting.

Posting on the daily every time an LGBTQ+ person falls foul of the age taboo, transgressed age apartheid.

Anyway, a fascinating historical note from you. I’d never heard of MiniPops before, so thanks for posting.

Readers may wish to note the French sociologist Juliette Rennes, who has published some thoughtful and useful articles.

“The History of Sexual Norms: The Hold of Age and Gender” (2015 ), https://journals.openedition.org/cliowgh//1018

“Unpacking Age as a Category” (2019), https://shs.cairn.info/journal-revue-francaise-de-sociologie-2019-2-page-257?lang=en

Excerpt from the latter:

Although the hegemonic association of “age” with chronological age seems obvious now, it is not systematically involved in age-based discrimination and has not always existed. In France, after the Villiers-Cotterêts ruling (1539), which made it compulsory to keep records of baptisms “which record the date and hour of birth, which will serve to prove the legal majority or minority of the person,” one of the first administrative uses of the date of birth was for families to control the marriage of their underage children.

A 1579 ruling considered unions involving a minor (at the time a woman under twenty-five and/or a man under thirty), as “abduction” when the marriage was concluded without parental consent (Doyon 2007). But it was at the end of the eighteenth century, when registering newborns at birth became more systematic, that the use of the date of birth became one of the main tools for managing, recording, controlling, and protecting members of the nation

“Multiples of 7 were considered important as a signifier of maturity”

>Interesting, because there’s currently a dictum going round: “half your age plus 7.” As google assist puts it, using its horrible therapy language:

The “half your age plus seven” rule is a guideline used to determine the minimum socially acceptable age for a dating partner. According to this rule, a person should not date anyone younger than half their age plus seven years, which helps to set boundaries for age differences in relationships.

It’s often invoked as an implicit rule or guide for age-gap dating. Psychology today wrote about it, and tons of news articles, comments, and creators discuss and give their takes on it. Personally, I don’t care about age gaps: you can be 70 dating an 18-year-old for all I care. What I care about is if you’re happy together, and treat each other well. That’s what’s most important.

‘half your age plus 7’. Also known as ‘bollocks’

Absolute bollocks indeed!

“Multiples of 7 were considered important as a signifier of maturity”

IMO this makes some sense. It allows us to rethink age periods and their connection with socio-biological context and chronophilia. Pedophilia (0-6); Hebephilia (7-14); Ephebophilia (15-21).

Hmm… maybe, Harlan.

In my understanding, paedophiles tend to be drawn to children who are pre-pubescent or perhaps early pubescent. Those who can very much walk and talk, be good conversation partners, etc. Wasn’t the average age preference in the Wilson and Cox PIE study something like 10 or 11 years?

Whatever the case, infancy to 6 years is way too small a cut off, and is now often separated from pedophilia under the label of nepiophilia. I think that’s accurate and important.

Tom O’Carroll himself (speaking as if you’re not here lol), starts in his 1980 book by saying that paedophilic attraction to infants is extremely rare. To my knowledge, that is the case. There may well be feelings of tenderness and care in the way most people feel towards babies, but the sexual feeling towards them is lacking.

So, I’m not so sure about the reclassification you’re suggesting, though I like your willingness to question and rethink established categories. I personally think the major psychologists, Michael Seto and the like, are meaningfully accurate in how they divide up the chronophilias.

(Though, I view Nepi, Hebe, and Epeb, and Mesophilia as controversial categories, and would strongly advocate against pathologizing any of them. These aren’t mental illnesses, just erotic preferences which relate to sexual maturity and social tendencies).

The org European Digital Rights (EDRi), has found that “80% of children in the EU say that they would not feel comfortable & safe being politically active or exploring their sexuality if authorities were able to monitor their digital communications on the basis of finding child abuse material.”

Their project “Stop Scanning Me,” advocates against “the EU’s proposed Child Sexual Abuse Regulation (CSAR),” and sounds a valuable, important org and project to be aware of…

Another bit of BREAKING NEWS!!!

Virginia Giuffre, the woman who accused Prince Andrew of having sex with her when she was 17-years-old, after she was brought to him (“trafficked”) by Jeffrey Epstien, has now gone viral for being in a car crash. After securing an estimated $12-14 million settlement from her Prince Andrew suit, she’s now a 41-year-old mother of three, who recently broke a restraining order, and is believed to have divorced her husband last year. In her latest drama, she posted a photo of her face, battered and bruised, appearing to be in a hospital, with a caption saying she’s got “4 days” to live.

At first I thought some variation of “he’s finally done it and bumped her off!” But the plot gets thicker than that!!! There’s reason to believe she was lying, bringing with it a new flurry of backlash and criticism of her credibility!

To quote from an incredible Daily Beast article:

One friend of Andrew’s told The Daily Beast: “There is no sense of satisfaction on the duke’s part at Giuffre’s disgrace. If anything it has brought back the sadness the entire family feel that this woman, who he always maintained was a fantasist, was allowed to ruin his life. The whole family are completely unsurprised that her alarmist post turned out to be a fabrication.”

Giuffre now says that an Instagram post in which she claimed she only had four days to live after being involved in a horrific bus crash was inaccurate. The Jeffrey Epstein victim’s admission came after police in Western Australia, where she now lives, told The Daily Beast that the only bus crash they could find on their systems in the relevant dates was not serious and had resulted in no injuries.

Some other great quotes:

Andrew paid Giuffre a reported $14 million in 2022 to settle a lawsuit she brought against him […] one source told The Daily Beast, […] “He has been quite adamant from day one that he never met her and certainly never had sex with her. Someone capable of lying about being four days from death is quite capable of lying about their interaction with him.”

One of Andrew’s most prominent public supporters in the Giuffre case, the royal writer and YouTuber Lady Colin Campbell, told The Daily Beast: “Virginia Giuffre has lied, lied, and lied again and repeatedly been caught in those lies, not least by Alan Dershowitz, who forced her to retract her wild claims about him. She is utterly unreliable and has accused figures from Bill Clinton to Ehud Barak of having had sex with her.“ […]

“I invite her to sue me, because then I will have a chance to cross examine her in a witness box.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/guess-how-prince-andrew-feels-about-the-latest-virginia-giuffre-news/

Moral of the story: never settle.

I dont really blame him due to the horrors of the us ‘justice’. System….

BREAKING NEWS!!! Russell Brand, comedian turned political commentator, has been charged (but not convicted) of historic rape and sexual assault charges. This means he will have to appear in UK court, which is set to happen in May this year…

There was a large amount of media coverage about “allegations” not so long ago, which included the apparent fact of his past sexual relationship with a 16-year-old female high school student. (This is legal, but frowned upon in the UK)… Now, these allegations, who has consistently denied he has ever engaged in “non-consensual activity,” have turned into court trials.

His short Youtube response is here: https://youtube.com/shorts/ifvM69HrGAQ?si=Pcektcys2kveuB7w

As he puts it,

“When I was young and single, before I had my wife and family […] I was a fool […] I was a drug addict, a sex addict, and an imbecile. But what I never was, was a rapist.”

Personally, I highly suspect that’s true. He is probably, guilty of what scholars would call “bad sex,” but I strongly doubt he has ever forced someone into sexual activity.

The problem is legal codes for “rape” and “sexual assault” have expanded, so he may well struggle to avoid prosecution. He has likely had sex with many drunk, high, and young women, whose capacity to meaningfully agree (or consent) to sex, will now come into question. He has probably been very pushy, so there may well be a charge of “sexual assault” in his future. On the other hand, these activities are alleged to have occured around 20 or more years ago, so cases may get thrown out for lack of evidence.

(I’m aware of the typo here, btw. Wouldn’t let me edit it after posting. You’ll just have to ignore it, and you’ll get the message anyways).

‘Raise the AOC’ didn’t help Stead who ‘went down’ on the Titanic. Cunnilingus on an inanimate ship still not a crime?

Quote Anglo-Irish hedonist Gay Victorian victim visionary Wilde, 1891,”The 4th Estate is now the only estate, it has eaten up the other three. The Lords Spiritual say nothing, the Lords Temporal have nothing to say, and the Commons has nothing to say and says it! We are DOMINATED by journalism.”

Bonus Wilde quote, “Aubrey Beardsley’s publisher (Leonard Smithers) loves all children except boys.”

HOT Loli MAP Smithers was notorious for posting a slogan at his bookshop in Bond Street reading “Smut is cheap today”. One of his hobbies was “deflowering little girls”, about which Brit-wit Wilde also said, “He loves first editions.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Smithers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decadent_movement

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup
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