No wonder women turn against 'teasing'

We hear much these days about independent India’s soaring economic growth and advanced IT skills. But in the last couple of weeks a much grimmer story has emerged: the sickening gang rape and murder on a bus of a young unnamed woman. Apparently her death came about through evisceration when, after multiple rapes, an iron bar was shoved into her. It is a story which might at first seem of questionable relevance here, concerned as we are with minor attraction and with consensual sex not the atrocious rape and murder of an adult.
Again bearing in mind John Donne’s words that no man is an island, which we had occasion to ponder in relation to the American elementary school massacre last month, the bell tolls for us all at such times: wherever and whenever there is man-made suffering and death we do well to look for any connectedness with our own lives and attitudes, and to challenge ourselves. The expression “man-made” is used advisedly. Indian women have risen to protest in their thousands, setting in train an unprecedented debate about endemic sexual harassment and violence in the country.
When feminists in the West make similar claims we are wary, because we know all too well their capacity to exaggerate: the militants, it sometimes seems, regard any sexual interest shown by a man in a woman outside of a committed relationship as rape, or “abuse”, from sex with a willing adult prostitute to a boss’s mildly flirtatious remarks to a secretary; even in a committed relationship, these hard-liners insist that on every occasion of intimacy the man all but needs to get the woman’s consent signed on a dotted line – a notion bravely challenged by British parliamentarian George Galloway recently in defence of Wikileaks founder Julian Assange.
What India reminds us, though, is that feminists – or simply women – are not always wrong when they complain about male behaviour, and more particularly about patterns of truly horrific physical and sexual abuse. India has long been a patriarchal society, in which the status of women has been so low that wives have been considered little more than adjuncts of their husbands, such that it has been considered fitting for a widow to die when he did. In the ancient custom of Sati (or suttee), formally abolished in 1829, a widow would immolate herself on her husband’s funeral pyre, thus being burnt to death in his cremation. Traditionally, this was supposed to be a voluntary act of devotion on the woman’s part, Sati meaning “good wife”. But extreme social pressure, and even force, sometimes obliged a woman to be a “good wife” in this way.
Echoes of that extreme expression of patriarchy have never fully disappeared: although illegal, Sati still occurs occasionally, the last time as recently as 2008.  Arguably things as getting worse, too, because in the last twenty years or so widow burning has been joined by bride burning: it accounts for a staggering 2,500 deaths per year in the country. A bride is typically doused in kerosene at home by her husband or his family and set alight, due to dissatisfaction over the dowry provided by her family.
An even more widespread, and growing, form of abuse is so-called Eve teasing. The Eve of the Bible tempts Adam with the forbidden fruit, notionally an apple, but also a symbol of sexual desire: not to put too fine a point in it, the temptress is a prick teaser. Indian men in recent decades have perhaps felt more teased than in former times. The modern, professional, educated Indian woman is not confined to wifely duties at home: she travels to work. Her clothes, without being revealing, may be seen as provocative just by being smarter than those of perhaps less well-to-do men she allegedly “teases”: her career success is an affront to their esteem, a sign that women need to be put back in their place i.e. under men’s control. So men feel licensed to take revenge by “teasing” them through sexual harassment in public places. Often this is no worse than wolf-whistling or mild groping, but it can take extremely serious forms, leading to violent rape and worse. So-called “teasing” may include throwing acid in women’s faces.
Such atrocities may seem far away and of little concern to the readers of this blog, who are based predominantly in the most developed and prosperous Anglophone western countries, where women’s rights are relatively well entrenched. But that is the point: as minor-attracted persons we often see feminists as the enemy, not because we want Indian-style patriarchy but because the oft-called “feminazis” frequently seem utterly rabid and unreasonable in their hatred of paedophiles. We feel they do not understand that paedophilia is about love, affection and feelings of nurturance, not about dominance or abuse of power. This misunderstanding can sometimes feel gratuitous and malicious, as though the feminists are just horrible, hateful people.
What we need to understand, though, is where they are coming from. When we see the terrible things that men with patriarchal dominance do to women in societies such as India, we can begin to appreciate their suspicion and passion against us. Susan Brownmiller, in her classic 1975 book Against Our Will: Men, Women, and Rape, pointed out that in times of war women are routinely subjected to rape and every kind of atrocity by men who are simply soldiers – ordinary guys, not necessarily the most extreme psychopaths. If ordinary men can behave so badly, why cannot ordinary paedophiles?
Don’t worry, I am playing devil’s advocate here, not selling out. All I am saying is that we should not be too defensive against feminists. We should criticise their exaggeration in the West of petty grievances. We should not put up with them parlaying loving adult-child encounters into “rape”; but neither should be refuse to acknowledge that power is sometime abused and that not all paedophiles are nice people any more than Norman Normal necessarily is, nor his wife Norma. We should reject the sex-negative aspect of much feminist thinking but embrace its insistence on relations of equality – equal, that is, not in terms of size, or age, or power, but of respect and love.
I’m not done with India and empire yet, though. I’ve decided to make this an imperial trilogy. I started with the “empire” of Heretic TOC. In the third part I aim to return to India and other parts of the British Empire with a somewhat less bleak view than the one presented above.

Again, over many years now we here at Sniffy Dog have learned to expect nothing better from the Land of the Potty Pom. That’s the way they are, afflicted with what Pope John Paul II aptly described as The English Disease. Better, we think, to quarantine the place, sort themselves out finally, learn to look after their own children and their own people finally instead of exporting their woes continually to the colonies where we have to put things back in order, extract their heads out of their arse, teach them to behave, to conduct themselves as passingly civil human beings, and avoid being infected by them in the process.

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[…] rape in India is a particularly horrific phenomenon right now, as registered in Heretic TOC’s “No wonder women turn against ‘teasing’”. But the cause will not be helped by Mission Creep that extends to wiping out – or trying to […]

[…] over a year ago, in January 2013, Heretic TOC ran a blog called No wonder women turn against ‘teasing’. A few days ago a carefully argued, information-rich, 1,300-word comment in response, complete with […]

willistina556

Chronologically corrected, on Gandhi’s still fair assessment.
We actually include the Brit Empire and legacy where their Bullshit never sets, within, “ barbaric, superstitious, or religioso irrational belief systems ”.

Kit Marlowe

The paedophile-complex in Britain is deserving of a slightly more balanced treatment than GH gives it – colonial shoulder-chips aside, it is really worth asking why paedophilia has become, as Andrew O’Hagen recently put it, “our chosen national nightmare.” With the best will in the world, I don’t think flailing out at the “English disease” – a term that long predates Pope John Paul, but is usually taken to refer to football hooliganism – is going to get us any closer to the answer to that question (though one very influential Australian press-baron certainly must bear some responsibility for it!).
As far as India goes, I must strongly disagree with an above poster. The problem is not simply “barbaric, superstitious, or religioso irrational belief systems” – indeed, this assumption seems to me to exemplify the worst sort of colonial arrogance sometimes predicated of the British. India’s problem, to paraphrase an Indian commentator speaking recently, is that the ‘traditional’ values system (which was often borderline-matriarchal, at least in the private realm) has been uprooted both by colonialism and by the whirlwind of global capitalism. Yet at the same time, ‘modern’ values imported from the West (including Western-style feminism) have largely failed to take root in Indian culture. India is not ‘backward,’ but trapped betwixt and between. The same problem can be seen elsewhere – in Russia, for example – but perhaps nowhere as spectacularly as in India. For that the British must certainly carry some blame, though the self-appointed heirs of the Raj, above all the ardent modernisers and nationalists in the INC, must also bear some responsibility.

Kit Marlowe

And an afterthought about suttee – that rather rare but spectacular expression of Indian cultural difference that so horrified the battle-hardened henchmen of the Raj and so fascinated purveyors of the exotic Orient. Although the Raj tried very hard to stamp out suttee completely, there is some evidence that it became more common rather than less during the course of the 19th century, at least in Bengal. The reasons for this are much disputed, but some historians believe that the British exploitation of caste distinctions hardened these identities, and made suttee a more socially prestigious act than it had been previously. So operates the law of unintended consequences – well-meaning Westerners take note.

Gil Hardwick

Battle-hardened henchmen of the Raj? Henchmen perhaps, but hardly battle-hardened, except against entire villages of men, women and children who happened to be in the way of the global land grab.
Somewhat bemused that the Brits were likwise “so horrified” in the aftermath of Hitler in Europe, we out here can only imagine because Hitler dared to do in Europe to Europeans, among “the civilised”, what they themselves had been doing globally to Others for the entire century previous . . . and then some . . . in India “stamping out suttee”, in the Americas “putting an end to slavery”, in Australia and elsewhere “clearing land for agriculture” . . .
All “well-meaning” of course . . . with “unintended consequences” of course . . . merely “reaping the whirlwind of global capitalism”, what?
Pip, pip, old chap, jolly good show, we’ll show these savages a bit of John Bull tenacity, Hurrah, Hurrah! The King is dead, God save the King!

Gil Hardwick

. . . damned insolent savages . . . damned ingrates . . . filthy uncivilised wretches . . . don’t they know it’s “for their own good” . . .

Gil Hardwick

@Kit, and it’s nice to see people using their (assuming much perhaps) real names, but the ‘colonial shoulder chips’ is quite a lot more than chips on the shoulder.
We struggle yet with the Anglophone media, generations of children beaten out of their own langauge into ‘speaking English’ not to learn anything of any relevance or importance merely it seems to pass on the slander and gossip, not only out here in the colonies but in remnant Wales and Scotland, Inuit Canada, Indigenous Australia, everywhere.
Challenge me on these matters, no problemo, not as personal attack merely to clear the air finally, get the facts in order, grasp the genealogy and history of all this stuff . . .
. . . and not least to my mind restore healthy relationships between human generations, positive body image, and unashamed, rewarding sensual and sexual expression.
Without the guns and the puritanical cruelty and subservience and . . .

willistina556

2-points, unstated here, about arrogant macho-made gender huge imbalance, and global Anglo arrogance.
1. In the ‘macho’ still patriarchal entire sub-continent of greater India; and until recently also China and other barbaric, superstitious, or religioso irrational belief systems. Boy babes are highly valued, cherished and spoilt, girl infants hardly at all and are often destroyed at birth or soon afterwards. Leading now to a huge gender imbalance where increasingly desperate males cannot now normally court females, and frustratedly resort to violence.
2. As ever, Gil, also rightly nails the psychologically failed arrogant Anglos, with their proven perverse subtext, ‘We Know Best’ ? Since their post-Reformation prime role-model, ‘macho’ psycho schizo serial killer Henry V111 Tudor’s break-schizm from Rome. They are history’s most devious, manipulative, self-justifying heirachy, believing they do-no-wrong. While exploiting the globe in self-justifying, profiteering self-made ‘Wars On Scapegoats’. Leaving a catalogue of crimes-against-humanity far too long to list here. And with self-made mantra, “God Is My Right !” Deliverd with Bible, Bullets, & Bullshit. Always Bullshit ! In an Empire where the Bullshit never sets.
We leave with 1947 Indian peaceful protest leader Gandhi’s wisdom responding to the last Anglo Viceroy Mountbatten in India (Prince Charle’s uncle wrongly done for by rightly resentful Irish in their own country).
Mountbatten, paraphrased, “Mr Gandhi, after 150 years of our rule now ending, what do you think of English culture ?”
Mahatma Gandhi, “I think it would be a good idea.”

Gil Hardwick

Before we go off on grand Asiatic conspiracies, it helps to grasp that India has a population of 1.2 billions, of which over 30% live below the global poverty line of US$1.25 per day.
I keep wondering that we are not given more detail on the event in India, of the caste relationships at play, only that a girl on a bus was raped and mutilated by a gang of men, thrown out and left for dead, and later died.
The rape incidence in India is around 15,000 a year, giving a risk of 1:80,000 per annum compared to the US 1:1,625 the UK 1:775. One might argue that in the US and UK rape is more reliably reported, except that reporting has not led to any reduction. What’s the point?
Let’s have a look too at one David Icke, who claims that not only Jimmy Savile but the British government, the Royal Family, and the aristocracy at large, are riddled with reptilian blood, with Satanists, Paedophiles, Necrophiles; that the Illuminati are processing food now deliberately intended to short circuit our ‘inner computers’, to have us believe that the ‘dream’ we are being fed by them is ‘reality’.
That’s what I mean about the disease spreading around the planet, fuelled by conspiracists, media hysterics, and the downright loopy.

peterhoo

It would be nice to believe that those who have spoken so strongly about your views (sadly, only focused on attack) will come and read your latest post. You make it very clear you are not anti-woman or anti-feminist. You are strong in your concern for human suffering and an opposition to rape. A very informed position to adopt.

Empirical

We should keep in mind that not all women are malignant radical feminists, and a few – Nathan, Levine, Clancy et al. – have been at least to some degree supportive of consensual sexually expressed boy/older male relationships.

Gil Hardwick

An afterthought, lest I be again misquoted, nowhere have I disparaged women or any of the female sex, of masculine or feminine stripe, nor indeed men or any male of the feminine stripe or otherwise, only ever ideologically driven ad hominem dismissal of any who disagree with someone, or differ from them, or chose another path, or march to a different drum, as Other.
The contradiction inherent in feminism is its dismissal of the male as inately violent, aggressive, rapine and exploitative of the female, moderated over decades of bitter arguing to accede to female children, and much later male children, leaving still today the adult male – sans queers, gays, whoever – to leave the ordinary Joe, the happily hetero guy, as the arch villain of all villains, and worse when from time to time hanging around kids, having a great time, his secretive, manipulative, ‘something else’.
I mean, get a grip. Why Joe? Could be anybody. If we are going to have universal rights, let those rights be universal. As somebody else wrote somewhere, hey, there’s nobody here but us chickens.
Way back then we were all talking liberation, skinny dipping, burning bras and draft cards, hell iconoclastic times to be alive. I mean, #WTF?, as they say.

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