Show me an abnormal mountain

Is it abnormal for a mountain to be behind schedule? Today’s mountain, promised as a guest blog in The magical age of 10?, is running a bit late, which is my fault entirely, not the author’s. I should also apologise to other guest writers whose work is in the pipeline: be assured, your excellent contributions are not forgotten. Today’s blogger is Jim Hunter, who has a Master of Social Work degree and has spent most of his life working in the mental health field. A number of his articles have appeared in professional journals, mostly related to psychotherapy, and he writes fiction under the pen-name Jay Edson. He manages a web page, You Are Your Story, for minor attracted adults and those wanting to know more about them.
In the novel, A Galaxy of No-stars (pg. 190) a mother writes to her son who lives separately from her. In an effort to help him sort out a confusing mixture of thoughts and feelings about sex, she shares with him her some of her views on the subject:

Everyone’s got a different landscape. And that’s a good way for it to be. Their ain’t no gay nor straight nor pedo nor bi, and certainly no normal or abnormal, no more than you can say about an ocean or a continent, this one here is normal, and that one is abnormal. Each person is just his or her own landscape which like any landscape is a mixture of things. We just find ourselves among all these hills and forests with all the living things within them, and sometimes we find joy in their beauty and other times we tremble at the dangers that might pop out at us at any moment. To always see the beauty while at the same time never forgetting about the possible dangers – that is the way I think we should live. Beautiful and dangerous are useful words. They define real things that happen to us and around us – things we can know and see. But “normal” and “abnormal” – what use are those terms? When I look around me I don’t see no normal or abnormal. I see beautiful and ugly and loving and hateful and helpful and dangerous – but no normal or abnormal. Those are life-killing words. Those are words narrow people use to try to put life in a little box because it’s too big and unruly for them to accept on its own terms. Normal and abnormal? Pah! Show me an abnormal mountain.

The biological sciences were furthered by the development of an overarching taxonomy. Kingdoms were subdivided into phyla and on down the line through classes, orders, families, genera and species. Every critter had its place and, while it may not have known who it was and where it fit, the biologist studying it did. Medicine took things a step further. Not only did it develop a taxonomy of diseases, but it added an additional concept: normal. Some physiological conditions were “normal” and others were “abnormal.” That seemed to produce beneficial results, so it was logical to take a similar approach with regard to human behavior. A person might be a schizoid, borderline, or narcissistic personality, or a sociopath, or a manic depressive, etc. In the sexual sphere the human sciences began with a set of categories (and prejudices) that were common in the popular culture, and refined them. In this case people were defined as homosexuals, bisexuals, pedophiles, sadists, masochists, asexuals etc. This provided us with a taxonomy of human beings, some of whom could be designated as normal, and others abnormal. So why might this effort to bring order to a confusing plethora of data be problematic?
Several reasons.
The first has to do with the taxonomy itself. If one draws a 2X2 table with adult or child across the top and male or female across the side, and then fills in the various boxes in accordance with the strength of the attraction a particular person has in each category, we don’t know whether the results from a large population of people will produce clear cut patterns that actually correspond to any of our ordering schemes. There may be, in effect, as many sexual orientations as there are people. I may find both pubescent children of both sexes, and adult women quite attractive; a friend of mine reports that only men and boys are appealing to him; and someone else is attracted only to girls between the ages of 8 and 13. Are we to create new terms for each of these constellations? Perhaps a limited number of patterns really can be identified. However, at this point we have only limited and inconclusive research on this. Blanchard et al. (Sexual Attraction to Others: A Comparison of Two Models of Alloerotic Responding in Men, Arch Sex Behav., 2012, February; 41(1): 13–29.) have made an interesting beginning, but the most their findings would be able to demonstrate is that some patterns may be more common than others. It is almost as though biologists created its taxonomy as an act of pure reason, and then went out to actually look at the plants and animals they were categorizing. It seems probable that the sort of carelessly tacked together taxonomy of sexual types that we presently have is an impediment rather than an aid to research.
For the non-scientist who is just trying to get on with his or her life, the taxonomy can have an additional problem. To become identified with one’s type – I am a hetero, a gay, an asexual, or whatever – could lock a person into just that, rather than the multifaceted person he or she really is. The expectations of one’s friends as well as one’s own self-expectations can become a cage from which it is difficult to escape.
The second concern is that when we are dealing with people who manifest various human desires and behaviors, we are dealings with continuums – not with discreet entities. We all manifest borderline characteristics to one degree or another. Most, if not all people are capable of at least some degree of sexual attraction to children. One study, for example, showed that “20% of the current subjects self-reported pedophilic interest and 26.5% exhibited penile arousal to pedophilic stimuli that equaled or exceeded arousal to adult stimuli.” (Hall, G.C.N., Hirschman, R., Oliver, L.L., Sexual Arousal and Arousability to Pedophilic Stimuli in a Community Sample of Normal Men, Behavior Therapy, 26:4, Autumn 1995, pp.681–694.) One must assume that some degree of arousal is a common occurrence with a much larger segment of the population. Some more and some less. This is not the case with species. We don’t have a continuum of animals, some of which are more foxy than others. Any particular animal either is or is not a fox. It’s a binary kind of thing. The same is true of actual diseases. A person may have a mild case or a bad case of pneumonia, but one either has it or not. Pneumonia does not gradually blend into measles.
The next two questions concern the word normal. “Normal” is a slippery term. Dictionary definitions include, not deviating from a norm, occurring naturally, characterized by average intelligence or development, free from a mental disorder, and falling within a certain range within a normal distribution curve. The connotation of “undesirable” clings to the term in common usage. Is it undesirable to be unusual or not average? If someone is unusually tall or intelligent, they are not “abnormal,” as the term is usually used. A-sexuality appears to be fairly unusual, yet on what basis can we say that it is abnormal? Certainly it is not appropriate to designate a feature of a person’s personality as pathological simply because it varies from the average. The writers of the DSM manual have struggled with this, but have arrived at no universally accepted, and certainly no objective or scientific, criteria for making such a judgment. Because of the slippery nature of the terms “normal,” and “abnormal” there are many situations where it is far from clear what is actually being said when these words are used.
As the debate in a previous DSM revision about whether homosexuality is normal made clear, the criteria by which something is judged to be abnormal are always value laden, and relative to the cultural assumptions of a particular time and place. When the term “normal” is used in a discussion that purports to be scientific, it is generally loaded with less than explicit political and moral agendas. Indeed, it would seem that the most common uses for the term in both the mental health industry and in general discourse is to suppress, demonize and/or marginalize populations that are, in the popular imagination, undesirable; or to deny some aspect of human nature that is common but not currently valued. The word “normal” is a Trojan horse by which unacknowledged judgments with regard to the disgusting, unacceptable and perhaps immoral nature of the category of people being talked about are smuggled into the dialogue. It is, to be brief, generally a term of repression used to smother the natural diversity of life.
In almost all cases there are other terms that can be used that would allow us to say what we mean without such ambiguity. If we say that something is useless, most people would know what we mean. Likewise with such terms as harmful, or ugly, or illegal or immoral (though these last two terms are sometimes confused.) I would grant that the term “immoral” is subject to a variety of definitions, but at least most people would understand that it refers to a violation of a moral principle of some sort. And while “ugly” may be rather subjective, most people would know what you were saying if you used the term. Not so with abnormal. Only the connotation remains constant through most of its shifting denotations: always, it means undesirable, and perhaps disgusting.
Still, perhaps there are “abnormal mountains.” Perhaps mountain-top-mining produces just such a thing. Certainly this kind of mining produces results that are ugly. Few would deny that this mining technique is destructive. I would go so far as to say it is immoral. But abnormal? Hmm. Perhaps so. Perhaps real abnormality is produced when human beings interfere with natural processes in ill-conceived and intrusive ways.

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Cyril

›TO BECOME IDENTIFIED WITH ONE’S TYPE—I AM A HETERO, A GAY, AN ASEXUAL, OR WHATEVER—COULD LOCK A PERSON INTO JUST THAT, RATHER THAN THE MULTIFACETED PERSON HE OR SHE REALLY IS. THE EXPECTATIONS OF ONE’S FRIENDS AS WELL AS ONE’S OWN SELF-EXPECTATIONS CAN BECOME A CAGE FROM WHICH IT IS DIFFICULT TO ESCAPE.‹
That exlanis everything! I have always been wondering why those who fuck in prison are ready to fight when somebody call them gays or homosexuals. Nevertheless, those who are raped in prison are called coofs and faggots even in the case they have never wanted being fucked.
The initiative of giving someone the homosexual rank is taken by heterosexual convicts too, and not because of defense mechanisms against their own repressed homosexuality, but rather to maintain pecking order and to succeed in heterosexual competition.
Alpha males may have sex with either men or women, but thouse who are called homosexuals have no right to sex with women. When somebody is made identify oneself with gay type females will not consider him as a sexual partner and will prefer an alpha male.

jedson303

Tom — I’m confused. How did this happen to get sent to me. Not that I mind it. But it seems to be related to a guest editorial I did some years ago. All my best, jim

jedson303

Tom — I didn’t realize that “Pedophilia…” was translated into Russian. That’s fantastic. Maybe people who are outside the English speaking world will be more receptive to our ideas. Jim

Cyril

I’ve translated this blog, but I have no place to publish it, it is banned everywhere: https://www.e-reading.club/book.php?book=1069973

[…] in a wonderful paper by Jim Hunter, who was a guest blogger here at Heretic TOC with a piece called Show me an abnormal mountain back in March. His contribution was very well received and he was also feisty and articulate in the […]

jedson303

“The indictment will appear in the newspaper tomorrow morning. I mention that in order to tell you why I am up at 1:30am. 1:27 to be exact. I want you to know who I am and where I am and maybe even a bit about why I am the person I am. So I will be as precise as possible. Words are an inadequate bridge from my world to yours. Words — strung together into sentences — may convey the idea of the dread I am feeling, or the idea of that hollow sensation in the pit of my stomach, but the dread itself, along with the stomach sensations, falls out along the way, as packages might fall out of a carelessly loaded wagon. They never arrive at your doorstep. Still, words are all I have. ”
The packages falling out along the way reminds me of your missing attachments.
This is part of a story I wrote. This particular part was taken directly from my own experience. I spent 3 1/2 years in the prison in the US. You can check me out on the Internet if you want. I am on the registry. Whatever differences we may have, I think you can rest assured that I am no lover of the system. Also I share your interest in how communication might be possible across chasms of various sorts. And I have a great interest in language — what is can and what it cannot do.
So that is who you are talking to.

Gil Hardwick

Rule of fear . . . that’s the issue.
It’s all supposed to be enlightened prosperous liberal democracy, however else the political power-broking wannabes want to distort the simple fact.
So, this is my question, why such fear, why the dread, in a democracy?
At the end of the day, I guess, why am I being subject to 197/140 blood pressure close to a disabling stroke worrying about all this, destroying my life, all the rest of it? You think you cop it for your supposedly sexual thoughts?
I didn’t start in this because I had a boner (well I did anyway) but because in 1960 my IQ in the NSW state school survey blew the scale. I mean, shit, I’m just a kid.
What really did blow me away, myself, by 13 was the realisation they didn’t give a shit what I was doing in my brain but what I was doing with my cock, I mean, over at the neighbours (well, what he and she were doing with it), and in the outhouse, like back then we didn’t even have sewerage. Now, there’s a huge moment for a pubescent boy.
Later raising boys, taking them out of depressive suicidal black pit crap back to school into university and well-paid jobs.
Western civilisation?
You can extend the argument to Vietnam, Korea, everything before and since.
Read Solzhenitsyn, ‘The First Circle’; Bettelheim, ‘The Informed Heart’; Laing, ‘The Divided Self’, plenty by now . . .
Try to understand something much bigger than yourself.

crucialtruthteller

Why such fear in democracy? Again, I think Chomsky makes sense here (in his political analyst role, not the linguistic one). His analysis shows that there are two conceptions of democracy, first of all. There’s the popularized version with all the propaganda about people being encouraged to participate meaningfully in their democracy, and then there’s the other one, the prevailing one, where privileged elites (i.e. the two factions of the business party, Demoblican and Republicrat) have the meaningful participation (as long as they don’t stray too far, i.e. as presidential hopeful Ross Perot pushed awhile back, i.e. against NAFTA), and the masses whom have to be kept distracted from anything really meaningful.
The set up all based in colonial-type hierarchical assumptions, such as the masses allegedly being forever “incapable” to run their own affairs. An alienated bigotry, basically. One that may well stem from Machiavellian times, continuing today in the form of how Walter Lippmann and similar “gurus of public opinion” thought. And how something some call ‘class warfare’ perpetuates.
And then there’s the phenomenon, which I haven’t seen anyone seriously take on, of each generation of youthful descendants of privilege being forced in various ways to accept these bigoted, alienated assumptions about “the stupid masses”. As I see it, basically, each generation of those groomed to take up the levers of power get run through certain values. They may only see their fellow youth “made examples of” but threats (from family) like “shape up or ship out” to military boarding schools, psychiatric camps, or similar, can wear on even privileged youth.
A few get through the proverbial cracks, such as Gore Vidal. But most take up where the earlier generation left off, and take out their anger on acceptable groups.
The bottom line in all of this? I think we’re living, still, in a very brutal system. The Men With Guns (who kill without much qualm) rule, and the goose-stepping liberals go along because they have no choice. Thus explains their cowardice, at least in the u.s.a., I think.

jedson303

Gil —
The issue I am raising is not a matter of disagreement about ideas. As far as that goes, I share your rage against Western Civilization. There there is much you say that I agree with, and even where I don’t, I have no problem with having a knock down and drag out argument. My point is about process. It is about what makes dialogue productive. I believe that there is one basic rule that needs to be observed. It is important to attack ideas, but not people. When this principle is repeatedly violated conversation descends quickly to a level of bar room talk — with a lot more pontificating than listening, and with personal attacks and defense taking the place of picking arguments apart. And people who in fact may have a lot to contribute, leave the room.
jedson

Gil Hardwick

#WTF!!???

Gil Hardwick

Having slept on this, I am thinking that a bit of technical stuff on Internet communication protocol might help. Hopefully too, some grasp of why semiotics in so important to anthropology, and why clarity and identity are important to me personally.
Person A is talking locally to person B about something present and direct, for example. Their sentences are not only grammatically correct – containing subject and predicate – they are also semantically accessible – the things their words denote are available right there.
Posting something to the Internet, especially to an audience from a different culture around the other side of the planet, the relation between words and what the words denote is lost. The easy flow of banter locally between close friends and colleagues no longer works as a communicative medium.
It’s like an email to somebody referring to an attached file, but when the email arrives there is no attachment, or a different attachment, yes?
On the Internet, to ask somebody from an entirely different part of the world what do they mean, where is your meaning, is technically akin to saying to them, I have your email but where is your attachment?
But worse, police lurk all over the place trying to lead the unsuspecting into some sort of admission, no matter what other meaning said police invent and attach to the ‘admission’, and then go raid their house and arrest them.
Anyone wants to be friends with someone whose house was in fact raided thus, and spent six months in prison in the outcome, in this environment especially dealing with these issues we are here to discuss, please do come out and identify yourself as a friend, say what you mean, and mean what you say.

jedson303

Gil
” just shit dribbling from dull-eyed people’s mouths, for another degree in Literature and English, including this time linguistics, semantics, semiotics, media, theatre and performance, ”
I’m sorry, but I don’t think this is a fair portrayal either of dangeroustruthteller’s post or his identity. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you.
jedson

Gil Hardwick

My comment, Jim, is not a portrayal of anything of ‘dangeroustruthteller’ whatsoever.
I have no idea what his identity might be, and cannot until he or she or it comes out and identifies him/her/itself to me. I accept no responsibility whatsoever for anonymous people on the Internet presuming to claim some right to polite conversation.
To your concern, my comment is a reliable encapsulation of years of sadly repeated experience, persistently repeated, of returning to the West from living among people whose conversation sparkles with interest, clarity of expression, joy; people for whom correcting a child’s manners and their syntax and grammar is as routine as teaching them to wipe their bottom and wash their hands after they’ve been to the toilet.
People among whom children’s beauty and sexuality brings bright smiles and real hope for the future, in stark contrast to the uniformly depressive ugliness on return to ‘civilisation’.
Frankly, I consider it way past time Westerners were as thoroughly criticised for their self-righteous sloth as they are for their reactive self-victimised violence, and not least their refusal to even consider much less respect the fact that the Other might even have a point of view much less a gift with language.
So, first cab off the rank, how about we all stop taking every little thing so very personally all the time, get a grip and with it a life, and just maybe (we can only hope), try to work together to reintroduce beauty into this world.
To me it is all new flower buds poking their way up through the shit heap, the new plant rudely and unapologetically shoving aside the dessicated turd on its journey toward the sky, seeking light. That to me is truly revolutionary. Read Lao-tzu.

crucialtruthteller

Interesting line of thinking, everyone!
The reality, as I see it, is that these social science hypesters (and their zombie cadres) are playing a vital role in neo-colonial deployments. So there need not be much or any substance. They get paid, well, and in Western cult-ure that’s the clincher.
And they’re merely the second (or third) wave of invader aggression after the outright terrorism, er, war or “police action” (known, on the latter, very long to be fraudulent; William Blum’s write-up of illegal/fraudulent CIA interventions the world over is one example for the skeptics).
The Natives know the drill (especially today); it’s only the doctrinal adherents who come over via the likes of the “peace corps” or similar barely cammoflauged Western-centric groups, who have not been able to see reality –surrounded as they remain in the aggressor narrative. Anyone recall the film “At Play In The Fields of the Lord”? The same thing as any “peace corps”, but with the routine fundamentalist religion twist.
For the skeptics (and believers):
yes, it appears that working on projects such as well-building and helping with agriculture are benign. But the context not allowed to be explored is that these nations have been “under the thumb” of the so-called “benevolent” nation, their infrastructure laid waste, and their autonomy sacked. Thus the appearance and illusion to the greenhorn idealist (especially those coming right out of college), that such people are “not up to par” as far as rational care to themselves and their people!

Gil Hardwick

Thanks for this, and your reference to the work of Héctor Eduardo Babenco. Yes, ‘At Play in the Fields of the Lord’ is a critically important film.
I would refer you also to his consummately great ‘Pixote – A lei do mais fraco’, 1981, which translates literally as ‘Child – The law of the weakest one’.

Gil Hardwick

Just to clarify my position, let me say that I am not here to be liked, to find people to agree with me, to join some crusade someone might think I am on, against somebody else entirely.
Sorry, I side with noone; not even myself most times.
If anything, I much prefer that people argue with me, disagree hopefully roundly with me, critically deconstruct my current position (as I do myself), do their own homework; develop their own awareness, their thoughts and ideas.
That’s the idea, isn’t it?
[TOC: Yes, that’s pretty much the idea as I see it, not that I always agree with you, Gil. In fact, I wish I had more time to debate with you and others in these comments.]

willistina556

Further to the Liverpool UK, 1930s – 1990s great girl-pedo, loved by all.
In WW2 he was a Military Medal-winner for ‘Exemplary Bravery’ in Monty’s 8th Army/Desert Rats. That’s the same Field Marshal Viscount Bernard Montgomery Of El Alamein, now with proud 10ft statue opposite Downing Street by Britain’s War Memorial Cenotaph.
That’s the same postwar Monty, boy-lover great paedophile, loved by all.

willistina556

Experienced Gil The Great as ever, makes the right points, about our wrong times.
The centuries (not decades) old awful Anglo matriarchy cums from mentally weak men made worse by endless psycho guilt-trips placed upon them by merciless devious dames. A recent-past perfect example, is the 1950s young Grantham Hag Thatcher run riot all over her hapless hubby millionaire Denis allowing the bitch cart-blanche to become a Tory tart in ’59; and the rest as they say, is history.
While also not wanting to return to brutal-male stereotypes, of the type asked by a fawning dutiful wife, “Do you really love me?”
“Luvs ya ? Course I luvs ya – I fucks ya, don’t I ?”
There is a happy balance to struck, which sadly the historically hapless, unbalanced Anglos are unlikely to find in the forseeable future.
And on all statistical evidence, not least very current CEOP sources about web C.P. the vast majority objects of desire/objet d’art? are girls not boys.
A 1930s accurate anecdote related to one personally, was of a 20-something great ped/girl-magnet approached by an angry mum, “I’ve heard that you play with little girls in your house, and that my little girl is excluded.”
“No missus, I don’t exclude anyone;”
“Well make sure that you don’t. Cos i know about men like you. You get what you want, and then you leave them all alone;”
” No missus. I never leave them all alone !”
Meanwhile, did y’all guess right about the raving/Right/Wrong-un Old Bullshit/Bailey Judge trashing two victims of sooo familiar Anglo Sex-Fascism?
The year 1898, convicted to 2-years with hard labour, Wilde & Roberts.
The good news is that just 69 (a good number) years later Anglo Gay-21+ was made U.K. OK, and eventually in Y2K equalised to 16+. Anglo adult-Gay now so OK, it’s almost mandaTory!
‘Anglo balance’ ? Another myth in their own overlong lunchtime, in deep De Nile, away with The Pharaohs.

Mike

I tire of this kind of politically motivated research. It is shot down by the same old arguments time and again, but the ‘research’ just keeps popping up.
1. The choice of subject population is always suspect, because the subject population is identified by political means (even when the population is self-selected or identified). For example: what a ‘pedophile’ is in one culture or legal jurisdiction isn’t constant. This is doubly true in this case, because not only is a ‘pedophile’ a socially determined concept, but the object of his affections is as well. The assumption of what is a child is dependent on culture and jurisdiction.
2. The “Theory” behind the research question always implies a binary assumption (which is never appropriate to human populations). In this case it assumes every human is either ‘normal’ or ‘pedophile’, and pedophiles are always different than ‘normal’ people. (This ties into point one. Binary assumptions are political tools.)
3. The ‘unpublished’ research behind the published research will always undermine the conclusion. For example: how many different criteria were investigated and rejected because it didn’t provide the desired conclusion (the normal people and pedophiles are somehow fundamentally different). How many different aspects of the human brain were compared before they found one that displayed a measurable difference? If you take a small population for testing, probability demands you’ll eventually find a difference between that cohort and the control population. This is one of the great weaknesses of statistical analysis, however many in the field of psychology and even biology have difficulty with mathematical theory.
These three critiques can be relied on to shoot down the vast majority of bio/social research that so conveniently confirms current cultural and political prejudices.

Gil Hardwick

I wouldn’t call it ‘research’, Mike. I know few who do, beyond a few undergrads and their wannabe political masters.
It is nothing more than theory, yes derived ultimately from statistical modelling, imported into Sociology and Criminology from Psychology where such things are assumed ‘within the discipline’ a priori.
Even in Psych 100 they will tell you that (and become extremely irate with you and mark you down the moment you query such presumption).
For my part, better to know the theory than have it sneak up on you . . .

Gil Hardwick

It might (no, WILL) help to remember too that until the 1930s or thereabouts ‘Psychology’ was taught in Departments of Moral and Mental Philosophy.
At UWA for one, the name of the department was not changed to Psychology until about 1937, and then only under sustained legal challenge from the medical profession forcing it to seek some sort of scientific credibility, which it did as we know in statistics.
It has been bullshit regurgitated ever since.

jedson303

Interesting point about “decorum” Gil. In the 50’s, as stuffy as those times were, there was more individual freedom in many ways than there is now because if you weren’t “in your face” with someone about something, they tended to leave you alone. Spying on people, measuring them, entrapping them, micro-managing them, and various other ways of getting into other people’s business seem to be on the rise. I wonder whether in part, at least, this has to do with applying technological principles and procedures to human reality.

Gil Hardwick

No, I don’t think it has anything to do with technology, but with previously mass industrial working class people facing the prospect of post-industrial society, ‘information society’, and wanting to find something ‘useful’ to do with their now ‘free time’.
So they created whole new industries for themselves, in ‘environmental protection’. ‘community safety’, ‘child protection’; lush jobs for themselves on taxpayer dollars.
Almost in afterthought they realised they had to come up with some sort of justification for spending so much of other people’s money with no tangible return on the investment. So they created new monsters to protect us from.
Check out their conferences over the past 20-odd years, download and read their papers. You can see who they are, track their movements and activities especially through the university world system, as Tom does here occasionally.
It is nothing more or less than politics gone completely mad.
BTW, I never thought the 1950s were stuffy, or the 60s, or especially the 70s. Yes, we were all going through hard times from two wars and depression, and a lot more, but there was optimism and common cause.
That was a time when a boy could get a blow job and people would grin and say, Lucky bastard, good on you, mate. What he’d get from some was, You dirty little shit, put that thing back in your pocket and behave yourself!
Well, at worst, I know for a fact that some of us got a good larruping, here in Australia anyway, but still, that was about it.

Chuck

Gil, On March 5, you said:
No, I don’t think it has anything to do with technology, but with previously mass industrial working class people facing the prospect of post-industrial society, ‘information society’, and wanting to find something ‘useful’ to do with their now ‘free time’

Well, that’s interesting, to blame it all on the “working class”. Wow. I can only agree on a part of that, the part where middle managers are some semblance of a part of this group…and a stretch, there. Namely, those viewed by the managers and owners as having some value (say, a union leader that has to be “brought over”) and thus is manipulatively fashioned into a sort of manager (really, a decoy for the upper management). Only too soon to take the proverbial fall, regardless.
Pardon my possible “cognitive dissonance” if i’m not making a whole lotta sense here to everyond, but at least i’m trying! (Loving the comment from another about “words being an inadequate bridge, from my world to yours”!)
What i see is that college grads in the early 1970s started seeing: Lots of new funding on certain topics, heralded by such superficial ‘liberal’ polytricksters as Walter Mondale (source i read it from came from http://www.cchr.org but i haven’t been able to find it since; also, a fellow activist backed this up. If anyone knows where the cchr text is, please share!). Rollback was heralded as the New Cure-All for the authoritarians-that-be, and the always pliant liberals went along in lockstep (definitely fearful of daring where those radicals whom were “made examples of” dared).

willistina556

‘Norms’, then and now?
Guess the date, lives and crimes, only slightly adjusted for today’s ‘norms’.
Old Bailey, Justice Wills: ” (Names redacted). The crimes of which you have been convicted are so bad that one has to put stern restraint upon one’s self to prevent one’s self from describing, in language which I would rather not use, the sentiments which must rise in the breast of every man of honour who has heard the details of these two horrible trials. That the jury has arrived at a correct verdict in this case I cannot persuade myself to entertain a shadow of a doubt; and I hope, at all events, that those who sometimes imagine that a judge is half-hearted in the cause of decency and morality because he takes care no prejudice shall enter into the case, may see that it is consistent at least with the utmost sense of indignation at the horrible charges brought home to both of you.
It is no use for me to address you. People who can do these things must be dead to all sense of shame, and one cannot hope to produce any effect upon them. It is the worst case I have ever tried. that you, (name redacted), kept a kind of young male brothel it is impossible to doubt. And that you, (name redacted) have been the centre of a circle of extensive corruption of the most hideous kind among young people, it is equally impossible to doubt.
I shall, under the circumstances, be expected to pass the severest sentence that the law allows. In my judgment it is totally inadequate for a case such as this. The sentence of the Court is that each of you be imprisoned for 12 years.”

AlexP

Diabetes and hypertension are graded conditions that are defined in terms of arbitrary cut-offs, and species exist as continua both across time and across geographical areas.

jedson303

A good point. But I think there is a difference. Blood pressure and sugar content in the blood are both on a continuum in the sense that there can be more or less of the condition. Then at a more or less arbitrary cut-off point we can say this person has hypertension or diabetes. But hypertension is not on a continuum with diabetes. They may interact, but they are distinct conditions. It does not seem to me that this kind of distinctness obtains in terms that are used to define presumed social/behavioral/emotional patterns such as “borderline personality” or “pedophilia.”

Gil Hardwick

Good piece, from someone who knows something of theory.
It helps to gain perspective on the way things are around the other side of the planet, where in Australia the overwhelming issue remains concerned with the stolen generations, forgotten Australians, lost children of the empire – hundreds of thousands of children abducted, poorly educated and dumped out here in the colonies to fend for themselves.
Placing things back into context; the reason I did anthropology and history not psychology, it becomes clear that those who love children, know how to treat children, and nurture and raise children, are angels not demons.
I have written previously that a paedophile is a mother’s best friend, except back then they weren’t being labelled ‘paedophile’ but ‘friend’ – Johnnie’s friend.
Not long ago mothers were lining up to have their son sponsored by such a friend. It was girls who were missing out; thus 1960s ‘women’s liberation’.
That was when there was such a thing as privacy, and something else called decorum in public. These days we have gross invasion of privacy, yet oddly at the same time ‘coming out’ – speaking openly of matters that are not only private but nobody else’s business.
I remain interested to know the reason, beyond bureaucratic late-modernist insanity and its post-modernist corollary; the rise of the ugly, the immoral, the unhappy and the dumb-arse stupid, all intent on skewing ‘the norm’ so badly it has become pathological.

Gil Hardwick

Just to add here, while I am thinking about it, what appears to have been forgotten in all this is that the UK, US, Australia and New Zealand among others, are what are known as Common Law countries.
Unlike Europe where they retain the inquisitional system, in these countries legal proceedings are conducted under an adversarial system. That means, any person accused of anything at all has a right to face his accuser, a right to due process in being heard, a right to a fair trial, a right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt, and not least a right to have a judge presiding whose job it is to protect those rights.
These new sociological ‘norms’ have no founding in law, are not admissible as evidence in court, and have no empirical existence in the real world. They are theoretical constructs, sociological, or worse political. How on earth people managed to become persuaded that they are no longer a sovereign human being merely a ‘class of person’ subject to some theorising or other, is beyond me.
Yet the Americans fully believe apparently that their constitution is primary, when it is no. The English bog down in perpetual scandal believing that something they call ‘decency’ is primary, when it is not. The rest appear to believe that we are subject to some ‘norm’, when we are not. ‘Morality’ doesn’t even appear on the radar.
In short, anyone has anything to say to someone else, about them, say it to their face and allow them a chance to reply, or shut the fuck up. That is the sole legal principle under which we all live.
Good article, Jim, happy to see this issue raised here. Glad to find out who you are finally.

dangeroustruthteller

Gil, I wish to reply to this:
“I remain interested to know the reason, beyond bureaucratic late-modernist insanity and its post-modernist corollary; the rise of the ugly, the immoral, the unhappy and the dumb-arse stupid, all intent on skewing ‘the norm’ so badly it has become pathological.”
Maybe my response will fit into your ideas about post-modern or such, I don’t know…but I’ve spent a lot of time analyzing what happened, and the best thing that I came up with closely connects with Noam Chomsky’s analysis of what he called “Rollback”; basically, “conservative values” and their “backlash” against the autonomy (from authority) and participation-seeking of diverse groups, once blocked entirely out, with the democracy they’d been led to believe they had (at least as kids, attentions hooked into the indoctrination system).
So far, I haven’t seen any better analysis. The only thing that tries to get close is usually a superficial liberal approach, say something along the lines of a Michael Parenti (author, i.e. Make Believe Media).
You read analysts like Christopher Simpson (Science of Coercion) and things get clearer. There’s now a science dedicated to restrictive protection of established insanity, and keeping “the rabble” distracted and on a steady diet of “bread and circuses”.
I happen to think the game seeks to bring back the peasantized mind, while building up those who get to have privilege for awhile. Just looking through the Western media (tho I’m most familiar with north america), where stories are systematically published WITHOUT CONTEXTS, WITHOUT empathy and thinking being pushed. That’s a tell-tale sign, right there.
As far as the pathology of it all? The bottom line might just be about The Men With Guns, but I don’t know. I do know that wars continue being created (often out of lies, i.e. Iraq) and aggressions steady in all ways, despite so many in the world apparently dissenting. The thing of it is, all this insanity has been going on a long time. And now there’s no other group that’s so easy to (yet) attack. They need us so bad that the commissarial (heh) reaction of intensity in denying our side of the truth is definitely a symptom of the bigger picture.
Find this hard to read? I do note that a lot of “well educated” people cannot think “too far” beyond the corrals Given them by the academic Oz establishment… Better to blame it all on the “stupid masses”, “human nature”, and the usual b.s. of a society falling down, babylon style.
My two cents.
[TOC: Four cents! NB This is over 400 words; please aim to keep to 200. Thanks.]

Gil Hardwick

We have skirted around this already. WillsTina is onto it.
Why Chomsky? Because he is a linguist; tut tut, not cunning but erudite and profound.
For my part, moving back and forth between cultures as a field ethnographer, becoming over the years very acutely aware of shifts in meaning in traversing spaces between one and another – diverse Aboriginal Australias especially, but also China and South East Asia – across multilingual multicultural socially diverse landscapes.
I mean, penis cults, totemic pussy, 11-12-13 year-old ritual gang-bangs, epic ballads, poetic magnificence of the first order; happy smiling faces!
Back again to university, seriously pissed off now with the persistently lifeless Anglophone monolingual monocultural monotony that never says anything, just shit dribbling from dull-eyed people’s mouths, for another degree in Literature and English, including this time linguistics, semantics, semiotics, media, theatre and performance, more gender and sexuality this time very body oriented – sensory semantics of the human body.
Just say, for a moment, that the ‘rules of debate’ are to be set aside, not out of contempt for due process merely put in abeyance until the adversary, the proponent, the protagonist, the congenital shit dribbler, starts talking a modicum of sense finally, else we walk.
I mean, being totally ignored is the last thing they want; it really fucks their strategy. That’s when they start ranting again about satanic cults and rape and ritual canibalism.

jedson303

Well, it was a good four cents. I think this is the kind of analysis that we need. Tom is probably right about the need to limit length, but it is difficult. Anyhow, let me add a distinction. There certainly can be no question about the use of technology for furthering propaganda and suppressing freedom on a variety of fronts. It happens, big time. What is more difficult is to look at the issue of technology itself as a force for the suppression of, external control of, and alienation from what is most human is us. Jacques Ellul argues, and I think rightly so, that when it is applied to human reality technology is inherently anti-democratic and alienating in its very nature. It is, after all, about prediction and control.
jedson

Gil Hardwick

Also Ivan Illich, Tools for Conviviality. 1973.

willistina556

Frenzied ‘flattening’, is an archetypal disturbed, fascist, absolutist, and puritan trait.
Irrationally overcompensating while seeking an unattainable supposed ‘perfection’.
Commonly described in, ‘polishing a pearl until nothing remains’, ‘throwing the baby out with the bathwater’, ‘shelling a walnut with a sledghammer’, or ‘swatting a fly on a baby’s head, with a hammer.’
Independent On Sunday, 13 December 1992 by Neal Ascherson:
“Damn The Children When The Devil Must Be Found !” ‘And still all over Europe stood the horrible nurses itching to boil their children. Only his verses perhaps could stop them .”
I thought of those lines last Monday night, as I watched Panorama’s television account of the Orkney ‘Satanic abuse’ scandal. They come from W H Auden’s poem ‘Voltaire at Ferney’, which is about the defence of humanity against superstitious madness. Panorama played an audiotape: a 6 yr old girl screaming tearful denials to three adult interrogators.
“He did so put his dickie in your fanny” they insisted.
She screamed again… ” NO ! ”

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