Does ‘moe’ mean less as Japan moves on?

Many heretics here will be familiar with ロリコン, though probably only when transcribed from Japanese into our alphabet as “lolicon”. Today we are privileged to have a guest blog on the subject by “Peace”, who doesn’t need translations. Peace knows Japanese and has been reading Japanese message boards, news sites, and blogs for some few years now, as well as sites written by English-speaking people living in Japan. He has also translated Japanese fan-made comics and zines. In his early twenties, Peace is a post-grad student, who spends most of his free time either writing fiction or translating comics and short stories. In this blog he describes a shift in Japanese culture, in which an earlier lolicon boom has given way to a related phenomenon, a “moe” boom.

INTRODUCTION
Two of Japan’s most well-known and infamous exports are lolicon and shotacon – erotic art of young girls and boys respectively – and lolicon often takes centre stage in debates concerning cartoon child pornography.  Pressure on Japan to meet global standards for regulating child pornography as well as turmoil from within their own country has transformed lolicon from being perceived as a harmless if strange hobby to what is often now seen as a deviant and perverse interest. Before this decisive cultural shift, Japan had a veritable mainstream “lolicon boom” starting in the late 70s that ended tragically come the 90s.  Though lolicon was toppled from its throne, it rose from the ashes and gained new life in the form of the “moe boom.”
THE RISE AND FALL OF LOLICON
“Lolicon” is short for “Lolita complex,” obviously drawn from Nabokov’s famous novel.  Though it tends to refer to erotic art of young girls or a sexual attraction to young girls, it can also be used as a noun that’s used to refer to one who is sexually attracted to young girls. It first entered the Japanese lexicon with the publication of Russell Trainer’s 1966 book The Lolita Complex; interestingly enough, the term originally applied to the reverse situation, wherein a young girl is attracted to adult males.  The publication of Tatsuhiko Shibusawa’s An Introduction to Girls Collection in 1972 changed the term to its current usage of adults interested in young girls.
The lolicon boom didn’t actually start with manga, as tends to be assumed, but with photo collections of nude girls that became popular throughout the 70s, starting with Kenmochi Katsu’s Nymphet: The Myth of the 12-Year-Old.  Both naturalist and gravure books were sold over the counter in general bookstores and some books sold up to 20 million copies.  As the 80s hit, demand for the books increased, and more than 100 photobooks were released.  However, as time went on, the books became the subject of societal scrutiny, leading to the banning and discontinuation of several series as well as regulatory practices that censored the photos.
At the same time, a new trend began to emerge in the manga and anime community.  Starting with manga by loli-legends Aki Uchiyama and Hideo Azuma, cute, wide-eyed, and childish girls took to the spotlight in sexual stories.  Subjects and situations usually reserved for older women – such as pantyshots, sexual humour, skimpy outfits, nudity, and even sexual activity – were now also in the realm of young girls.  Lolicon-dedicated magazines like Lemon People, Manga Burikko, and Petite Apple Pie began to pop up, and there was a mass outpouring of both amateur and professionally published lolicon art.  It wasn’t just relegated to the underground, either – magazines popular even now such as Weekly Shonen Champion and Animage had lolita works grace their pages.  Even people and corporations now world-renowned for their non-pornographic work were involved; for example, the video game company Enix began life by publishing games made by programming hobbyists, which included the pornographic loli-centered games Lolita Syndrome and Guest Mariko Hashimoto.  Lolicon was a force to be reckoned with, being not only popular but at times profitable.  Shotacon did not have the same kind of media presence; the closest thing was the proliferation of manga that focused on romantic and/or sensual relationships between young boys (and sometimes young boys and grown men) that was mainly consumed by girls and created by women such as Hagio Moto and Takemiya Keiko.
What’s popular is not always accepted and lolicon is no exception, with dissenting voices coming from both within and outside of the community.  Hayao Miyazaki, whose character Clarisse from the movie Castle of Cagliostro was especially popular among the loli community, had the following to say in 1988:

“[My female protagonists] immediately become the lolicon’s playtoys. In a sense, if we want to depict someone who is affirmative to us, we have no choice but to make them as lovely as possible. But now, there are too many people who shamelessly depict [such protagonists] as if they just want [such girls] as pets, and things are escalating more and more.”

At the height of the boom, women’s magazines ran critical and unflattering articles about lolicon, with titles such as “Girls are the victims of lolicon’s desires.”  There was a growing anxiety among the older generation about the newer generation and what the young adults’ preference for fantasy, fiction, and children meant for the future.
Within the manga and anime community, the term “lolicon” became popular among fans, and many wore the title with pride instead of hiding it.  The love of little girls, usually considered to be taboo, almost had its shame lifted by the lolicon boom.  Along with otaku (a word meaning a great or obsessive fan, usually of anime, manga, games, or other pop-culture interests), lolicon were not dangerous, deviant, or abusive to children, but rather just enjoying fantasy – and such fantasy was definitely important to most lolicon.  The magazine Manga Burikko originally featured more realistic sexual art as well as photographs of young and often nude women; however, complaints over the photos and the art resulted in the magazine removing the photos and focusing on manga and pictures that had softer, rounder, and more childlike characters.  One fan complained, “I feel nothing for manga that is simply about penetration or girls being raped;  I psychologically can’t accept it,” while another stated that they “preferred lighter eroticism over erotic-grotesque depictions.”
The fun ended in 1988 when Tsutomu Miyazaki was arrested for kidnapping, murdering, and then molesting the dead bodies of four girls aged four to seven.  After police searched his house and found huge amounts of anime as well as child pornography, he became branded as “The Otaku Murderer.”  The light-hearted and playful words “lolicon” and “otaku” instantly became pejoratives to describe sick-headed individuals who were dangerous or detached from reality, a stigma which still persists to this day.  Soon after his arrest, the non-profit organization CASPAR (Campaign to Stop the Abuse of Asian Children and to Safeguard Their Rights) started up and attempted to regulate pornographic depictions of minors, whether or not they were fictional.  The early 1990s saw a successful movement to ban so-called “harmful manga” and arrest those who sold such obscene material, and the production, distribution, and possession with intent to distribute child pornography containing real children was outlawed in 1999.  Lolicon was driven underground and became relegated to niche fanzines and manga hidden behind doors, and those who called themselves or were branded as “lolicon” were seen as simple perverts.
Legislation of lolicon and child pornography in Japan continues to this day, with the most recent being the criminalization of simple possession of child pornography containing real children in 2014.  The most recent attack on lolicon and other work featuring older but still underage characters was the revision of the Tokyo Metropolitan Ordinance Regarding the Healthy Development of Youths, also known as the “non-existent youth bill.”  In 2010, the metropolitan government submitted an ordinance that would restrict “sexually provocative depictions of fictional characters who appear to be under 18 years of age” as well as work that “features either sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life.”  The vaguely-worded proposal as well as its implications for free speech earned it the ire of the manga and anime industry and praise from the Tokyo Elementary School Parent-Teacher Association and other child-safety organizations.  Many manga artists, both male and female, held press conferences to voice their opposition to the bill and how it threatened the industry. The bill was finally defeated in June of the same year.  Though not everyone who was against the bill is for lolicon, and though “lolicon” is still a word loaded with stigma, such resistance to the bill shows that the manga and anime industry still clings tightly to the concept of freedom of speech for all, and such freedom toward sex and fiction may have been one of the major contributing factors to the lolicon boom.  Despite this, lolicon will never be culturally accepted as it once was due to Japan’s increasing presence in the global public eye as well as pushback from within the country.

MOE MANIA
Not all was lost for those lolicon, though.  In the 90s, a new word began to emerge in the mainstream that described an affection towards young girls: “moe.”  Though there’s no universal theory of how the word came to be or what it fully encompasses, it certainly has the same connotation of feelings toward young girls that were popular among lolicon.  Moe tends to be described as a character that inspires feelings of tenderness, affection, devotion, and excitement within the consumer. It’s a versatile word, able to be applied to girls, boys, and even adults, but the most common application is towards young girls.  So-called “moe” manga and anime tend to be centred around the usually humorous everyday exploits of girls and have often been described simply as “cute girls doing cute things.” What’s missing from moe, and what separates it from lolicon, is the sexuality.  Very light eroticism can be moe, but more heavy sexuality is outside its scope; the commentator Tohru Honda says that the ideal form of moe love is “romantic love.”  Another core component of moe characters is that the consumer wants to protect or nurture their beloved character: for many moe fans, adding sex to the mix tarnishes such love as well as the alluring “innocence” of the character.
Despite its sexual misgivings, moe is a more socially acceptable form of love towards young girls and is more popular than lolicon was in its heyday.  Even with its cutesy designs and mostly kid-friendly stories, moe is still primarily consumed by adults.  Moe manga are usually serialized in magazines targeted towards adult males, and the amount of expensive merchandise produced and sold means that it’s being consumed by those with disposable incomes.  In 2005, the Hamagin Research Institute calculated that the moe industry made over 88 billion yen – about 887 million dollars – and that doesn’t even take into account the massive amount of fanwork that’s produced.
Though lolicon may find solace in moe, there is somewhat of a disconnect between older lolicon and newer moe fans and the way in which they envision their objects of attraction.  Moe fans may see outright sexualization as destroying the “innocence” of girls that they’re obsessed with, while lolicon call the moe fan’s attraction shallow, infantile, or obsessed only with the image of purity or girlishness rather than the image of young girls themselves.  Father of lolicon Hideo Azuma had the following to say about one of the more popular moe anime:

“I watched K-ON! It was empty. It was nothing. The jokes made no sense. It didn’t even have any eroticism, any grotesquerie. Just the mildest, faintest hint of fetishism. Are the people who made it and the people who watch it that unable to cope with reality? It just feels gross…”

It’s in this way that 80s mainstream lolicon could be seen as embracing all sides of an attraction towards young girls, while the moe boom can essentially be seen as a neutered form of its glory days: it strips away the “dangerous” sexuality and leaves us with the “safer” form of purely platonic and aesthetic admiration.  It’s not perfect, and for some such a bastardization of their sexuality is unthinkable; they will instead stay underground with lolicon where they can attempt to be free from society’s standards.  For others, though, it is the perfect situation: they can be a little weird, just a little strange, but will not be labeled as criminals or perverts.  For them, the men and women of moe, this is the only way society has allowed them to live.

***

CHED EVANS CLEARED IN RETRIAL
Back to your resident blogger, and, once again, you heard it here first. Heretic TOC was a front-runner in exposing the absurdity of the Met’s Operation Midland, and has now been vindicated in supporting footballer Ched Evans’ continued claim to innocence after being convicted of rape. See When the law is out of order on rape for the coverage two years ago. Last week the jury at a re-trial brought in a verdict of not guilty.
Not that you’d guess it from the coverage in the mainstream media, where the focus was on the “outrage” felt by anti-rape campaigners, in coverage that strongly (but wrongly) implied the legal system had regressed to “slut-shaming” by allowing evidence to be heard about the alleged victim’s sex life.
While it is a good principle that a complainant’s previous sexual behaviour should not be used to undermine their credibility, which would often be in a one-person’s-word-against-another situation, the howls of protest failed to take into account that this case was different. That is because the woman’s word did not come into it. She never at any point claimed she had been raped.  Yes, she was a prosecution witness because the police decided she must have been raped, but the case was purely circumstantial and unwisely cobbled into a prosecution for misplaced ideological reasons.
Instead of admitting this, the victim-feminism zealots blamed the footballer’s “clever lawyers” for getting their man off on a supposedly dodgy basis.
One of those lawyers was Judy Khan QC, who represented me some 15 years ago at Southwark Crown Court when I was up for importing indecent images. She had less luck in that case, unfortunately. Like Ched Evans I was innocent but found guilty. Unlike Evans, who appealed successfully and went to retrial, I lost my appeal against conviction. By that stage I had run out of entitlement to further Legal Aid and so had no money to keep paying for lawyers, clever or otherwise. Thus I was obliged to present my own case, standing alone before three appeal court judges in the Royal Courts of Justice: a rather daunting experience, I can tell you!
They did at least graciously describe me as “a dedicated enthusiastic and well-researched apologist for what he sees as innocent and non-exploitative pleasure in viewing photographs of juvenile nakedness” before dismissing my legal arguments in a way that struck me as grotesquely rigged: the appeal court does have a reputation for upholding the decisions of the court of first instance if it can fudge a way to do so. But I was so infuriated by their blatant chicanery that I found myself blasting them for it there and then. “This is a travesty of justice!” I hollered, as they filed out of the court. No doubt conscious of their dignity, they remained resolutely deaf and simply kept walking.

BATTLE OVER HENRIQUES REPORT
One of those three judges who ignored my outburst that day (see above item) was Sir Richard Henriques, whose report into the disastrous Metropolitan Police investigation of alleged VIP paedophilia through Operation Midland is expected in a few weeks’ time. But expected by whom? By the Met themselves, certainly. They have already received a draft of the report, but a row has broken out over who else will get to see it, if anyone. The Met have said that “that key findings and recommendations from his independent review would be published” but not the full report. This would “remain private as it would contain confidential and sensitive information”, according to the Daily Telegraph.
The Met’s decision not to publish the full report, which will surely be heavily critical of the police (unless it is as biased as the appeal court ruling in my case), has been the subject of widespread disquiet. It looks as though the head of the Met, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, is trying to cover up his force’s embarrassment over wasting a vast amount of money investigating allegations made by an obvious fantasist – allegations that grievously damaged the reputations of innocent people, including former Home Secretary Lord Brittan, and Lord Bramall, former chief of the defence staff.
Why did the Met do it? Because, as in the Ched Evans case, the authorities were too much under the influence of victimological dogma – in this case the dogma that complainants should always be believed, regardless of how crazy their stories are. This mindless mantra was most egregiously manifested when a senior officer with Operation Midland publicly described the fantasists’ allegations not only as believable, which was ridiculous in itself, but “credible and true“.

NIGHTMARE OF THE LETHAL SURVIVORS
You couldn’t make it up as satire: the top brass of the massive and monstrously dysfunctional child sexual abuse inquiry (IICSA) have been so much at each other’s throats that a relationship counsellor was engaged in a desperate, doomed bid to get them to work together more cooperatively. It looks as though they were driven out of their minds thanks to all the abuse they were getting from the perpetually skrieky, tantrum-throwing, never-endingly demanding so-called abuse survivors’ representatives.
The upshot is that the future of the inquiry looks ever more wobbly. Three heads have rolled already, as successive chairs have failed to satisfy the blood-lust of the undead survivors, and even the fourth occupant of the obviously cursed job, Professor Alexis Jay, now finds herself under vicious attack.
This has all been coming out through evidence given this week to the Commons Home Affairs Committee of the UK parliament. It was on opportunity, duly taken, for Jay to bad-mouth her predecessor as chair, Dame Lowell Goddard. No need for details here. The dirty linen has been washed all over the media like a Hollywood divorce, but with one big difference: the most eye-popping stuff is not the parental squabbling between Jay and Goddard but the ugly sight of the kids kicking lumps out of both of them. Earlier it was Goddard taking flak for packing her bags and abruptly abandoning the family home with just a note left on the fridge. Now Jay is under fire for sensibly trying to tidy up the house a bit by getting the inquiry scaled down to a manageable level. Andrew Lavery, of survivors’ group White Flowers Alba, reportedly said: “Alexis Jay’s position is untenable, her statement is dishonest and disingenuous. She must stand down immediately.” That was fairly typical.

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[…] guest blogger here, the Japonist (hope that’s a reasonably accurate label of convenience!) who writes as “Peace”, reports the start of a new venture called “Kids Club anthologies”, the first such anthology […]

[…] news from IICSA comes not long after the Henriques report, trailed on Heretic TOC last month. Although the full report by retired senior judge Sir Richard Henriques […]

feinmann0

Henriques report: A super comment from KingOfHits website by Pete, helps me understand a little of the psychology that helps foment witch-hunt hysteria …
‘The investigation of ‘Nick’ by the Northumbria police for potentially perverting the course of justice, might be inevitable after Henriques. However deluded and confused he may be (and he strikes me as a rather sad nobody who was ruthlessly exploited by happily defunct Exaro, not to mention a certain Mr Watson and the Met themselves, for nauseatingly self-serving ends), I also think that even madness has ethical limits. Ruining the lives of other people because you want attention, because your life has amounted to nothing in comparison with your dreams, is one such limit.
I suspect that Sir Richard was being judiciously cautious in his language, even though he has dealt a hammer blow to the odiously self-righteous business of fear mongering and witchfinding.
I think one of the reasons that the police went to such preposterous lengths over Nick’s absurd boy-raping/boy-castrating/boy-murdering allegations (which I suspect were quite possibly his private masturbation fantasies) was not immediately obvious. The Henriques position, I understand, is that they were overcompensating for their perceived failures over the Savile affair, an overcompensation that made them unduly gullible.
I must say that I don’t fully buy that explanation. I think we need a psychoanalytic concept: the great French psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan called it “jouissance.” This term is usually translated into English as “enjoyment” but that fails to capture what Lacan had in mind (most of us think of enjoyment as a synonym for pleasure).
Eating a slice of strawberry cake is pleasure. Stuffing your head into the whole gateaux and gorging it till it’s gone is jouissance. Sipping a small glass or two of wine with your evening meal is pleasure, necking the whole bottle and moving on to another 75 litres and draining it is jouissance. Pleasure has inbuilt limits; we feel unpleasure when he have too much or too little of it.
Jouissance is different. It’s pure excess. It shatters the usual distinctions between pleasure and pain, and makes us somewhat deranged.
I think the False Accusation Industry, and its suspiciously willing police servants, have been intoxicated from the outset with jouissance, which in this instance we can take to mean the ecstatic madness of deriving the most intense libidinal kicks out of engineering the destruction of other human beings. For me, this is the libidinal economy of all fascist movements. It leads to moralistic grandstanding and naked gloating over the downfall of perceived (i.e., constructed) social scapegoats.
What strikes me as seismic about the Henriques report, or rather, what we’ve been allowed by our superiors to see of it (even though we paid for it), is its modesty. Like Jonathan King’s suggestion that malfeasance in public office ought to be applicable to individual police officers when they fail to investigate in an ethical, balanced and professional way, it strikes directly at the hidden, jouissance-drenched underbelly of these unhinged witch-hunts.
People often suppose that revolutions grow out of grand gestures and lofty principles. I think they often arise through modest reforms that, wittingly or unwittingly, target these hidden, libido-saturated practices.’

Nada

To avoid the spaghetti effect, here’s my reply to Peace’s comments of Oct 28,2016 @ 23:34:37 and 23:16:29:
Were feminists among the first of those who decried child-adult sexuality? Probably, but only as a pushback to cases of actual and harmful rape and exploitation.
Actual rape, as opposed to rape by the modern feminist standard, was a very serious crime in the 19th century and had been for many centuries. Had those feminists been rationally inclined in these matters, they’d not have found much to complain about. As for exploitation, it was an assumption that young prostitutes were exploited and those working 16-hours days in work houses or mines were not.
Those wanting to justify slavery or Jim Crow laws, which you decry, would probably have been in a far better situation, with regard to evidence, than the feminists seeking to deny others rights. That the latter managed to find common cause with others, and remain popular to this day, is irrelevant as to the truth of the original claims.
In considering the gains or losses of girls, in particular those I’m close to, I prefer the verifiable over the conjectured. The losses are plain to see, as is the suffering. Given my girls are strong, intelligent and fair-minded, they neither favor nor need special treatment when they eventually become women.
As to the differences in income or employment being correlated with skin color, any study, in particular in the soft sciences, will be subject to various sorts of errors, including systematic ones. Why expect perfection and react to only one kind of difference?
If any study shows differences in favor of the “oppressed” (in the simplistic models employed by SJWs), are those tolerable?
The discrimination of “non-oppressed” is a matter of bias and PC, such as hiring procedures designed to favor the “oppressed”.
Regarding the modern feminists, their goals and composition, I admit to ignorance. I’m aware of no test to separate them from their predecessors. Hatred from feminists, however, is nothing new, nor is their meddling in the lives of others, be it by imposition of arbitrary constraints, such as the various forms of consent, or denial of science (including biological differences between the sexes).
With regard to these matters, how do the vast majority of the modern differ? Do they reject the increased age of consent, which feminists and their cronies once imposed on fairly decent societies? Do they favor marriage equality in the older sense, without arbitrary age constraints?
No feminist I’ve met, either in academia or privately, have differed significantly in these matters, nor in the simplistic view that women (mostly themselves) are oppressed by men. As for barriers, they were not so keen to break the most obvious barriers, such as men doing most of the low-paying dangerous jobs or facing inequality in justice.
That they also, mostly, viewed children as parasites, unless they could be made out to be victims of men, and hated the idea of motherhood (or more rarely fatherhood), did nothing to prevent their simplistic ideas from being imposed on children. Not only were children to be denied sexual rights (showing a proud heritage from earlier generations of feminists, denying children were “sexual objects to be used by men”), they were also to be molded into more like the opposite sex, in denial of biological factors. While I love tomboys, I have no desire to force girls into being boys.
Given the historical and present hostility from feminists, I doubt a co-existence between feminists and MAPs would be peaceful.
Based on the damage SJWs did to the atheist community, far larger and stronger than ours, as well as what’s been already attempted by some in our own community, I don’t view them at a positive influence. What do we gain, as a community, by spurious accusations of racism, sexism or homopbobia etc? As most of us strive to maintain anonymity, disclosing traits harms us in a real way, while offering little, but scorn, in return. It comes as no big surprize that SJWs and anti-pedophiles strongly correlate, as the analysis done by SJWs do not admit to pedophiles being actually oppressed!
Regardless of our differences, it’s good that you volunteer to work with children and teens. Based solely on the information you already provided, does the treatment you recieve meet the criteria for discrimination?

Libertine

“That they also, mostly, viewed children as parasites”…This is news to me, Are we talking first-wave feminism here? If so I acknowledge that kids were seen as deviant little adults, But the 1800s was where the concept of ‘innocent child’ came from, So feminists could exploit the child’s new status to sanction men from them.

Libertine

Ah cheers for the clarification…Tom

Libertine

On the subject of Razorfist’s rants about the late MJ on Youtube, Looks like others have taken exception to his lack of research
http://www.mjfacts.com/strange-bedfellows/

Libertine

Looks like that link I shared has generated some more comments, And your book mentioned again!

Explorer

Tom, I just found another perfect candidate for the the inclusion in your blogroll – “Sex Hysteria” blog:
https://sexhysteria.wordpress.com/
This blog is dedicated to a very intelligent and sophisticated – I would even say, quite scholarly, with many useful references to serious research and good polemics provided – discussion of child and adolescent sexuality, sexual education and upbringing, sexual rights and liberties of adults and minors, intergenerational sexuality and scientific inquiry into all of the topics above.
My highest recomendations.

bjmuirhead

Frank can be rather… interesting. I suspect that many of his views (certainly ones expressed to me) may not be in accord with your own. But it is an interesting blog.

LoveNotWar

> ‘Selective’ tomocarroll Oct 29, 2016 @ 08:04:33 Extended:
“Additional to selective ‘child-lover’ heartless mass killer Hitler. Are other self-justifying merciless mass child killers and ‘loving’ family men: Ceasar, Khan, Cromwell, Attila, Napoleon, Stalin, US-NeoCons Nixon & Kissinger, Pol Pot, Thatcher, Reagan, ZioNazis Sharon & Netenyahu, Rwandan Akayesu, Karadžic, Clinton, Bush, Blair, and far too many more to list here.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_convicted_war_criminals
https://www.google.be/search?q=evrything+that+flies+on+anything+that+moves&rlz=1C1SKPL_enBE421&oq=evrything+that+flies+on+anything+that+moves&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.12571j0j9&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide#Means_of_killing

Peace

By the way, for anybody who wants to look into this kind of stuff or delve deeper into a particular artist or magazine, here’s the Japanese for most of the things I discussed:
?????????? – An Introduction to Girls Collection
?????? 12???? – Nymphet: The Myth of the 12-Year Old
Some other famous photobooks are “Petite Fe” by Yoji Ishikawa (“???·??” by ????), “Little Pretenders” by Takao Yamaki (????), and the “Cherry Tomato” series by Junko Kiyooka (“?????” by ????).
???? – Aki Uchiyama (pretty much all of his work is pornographic and may be illegal in your country, so PLEASE search with caution)
????? – Hideo Azuma
??????? – Lemon People
?????? – Manga Burikko
??????·?? – Petite Apple Pie
If you can read Japanese, I also recommend the book “Lolicon” by Takatsuki Yasushi (“????” by ???). Aside from discussing the lolicon boom, it also discusses the psychology surrounding otaku and Japanese society at the time. Miyajima Kagami’s “Girl Love” (“???” by ???) is another pretty good one, though it does dabble a bit too much on kidnapping and rape cases for my liking.

Order

Paolo was a great lover of boys, Salo is the great tribute to the beings he loved, a tribute about eating shit, but a beautiful tribute.comment image
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/02/20/2EFE92D300000578-0-image-a-16_1449088809263.jpg
We can see the Leader and Reich Chancellor Adolf Hitler, another misunderstood girlover, here with girls shown his great love and appreciation for children.. how this man can have hurt a child? No-no
To see more people loving and care of children you an go to your nearest NSPCC center. The first child aged 9 to be declared sex offender this month has prize!

Christian

I have appreciated on this blog some well-thought and informative comments by sensible and intelligent people (some of them are even thanked on my blog for the contents they brought), but I see that more and more people come here not to comment on the topics of blogs, but to find a public wall where to vent their frustrations. First of all, we get the whole crew of self-centred identity politics that I would call “radped”, which is as narrow-minded, sectarian, reactionary and counter-productive as its “radfem” counterpart. Then we start to see crazy racists and neo-fascists who feel alone because currently all existing fascist groups hate MAPs while most MAPs refuse to join the Hebephilic State holy war.
If this goes on, I will leave this comment section definitively, and send you my comments by private email.
For those who think that all girls deserve to be loved, read this:
https://agapeta.wordpress.com/2015/05/04/after-many-years/
https://agapeta.wordpress.com/2015/08/02/settela-the-girl-with-the-headscarf/

Winston Smith

I hope the well-researched guest blog ‘People who live in glass houses…’ hasn’t opened a can of worms Tom, but I am sure the author did not intend so.

Sugarboy

For the benefit of anyone who doesn’t understand Salò, the ”eating shit” scene is an allegory of American culture, that virtually anyone is ready to eat like shit on a sliver plate. And that’s why the young men (no “boys”: the youngest was 17 years) appear disgusted by it, whereas the four tormentors eat it up with gusto. For the record, the “shit” was a mix of chocolate and jam.

The Last Cry of the Defeated Man!

Just a normal scene, really, from before the feminist anti-male brainwashing took over. Frankly, that is about all I’d like to do with boys in this country ( England ). This would have been a normal thing. Death to feminism!
I remember walking with this guy and coming upon three boys playing football. I said to him “Let’s join in”, but he got all nervous and said he didn’t want to. I was annoyed because I wouldn’t have ever offered when on my own. This country is literally hell for those who enjoy the company of young people. Get abroad! I know every boy lover here turns their nose up at the Islamic countries. Well, that’s your loss, frankly, because they are just honest, decent, family people, and the Arab countries are the only place left now where you can just… speak to boys in the street.

The Last Cry of the Defeated Man!

I will say one more thing: Since culture is considered the primary factor which sustain inequalities, Cultural Marxism is opposed to other explanations for inequalities such as religious explanations, individual choices, or genetic factors.
Unlike Marxism which primarily focuses on economic inequalities and economic classes, Cultural Marxism see culture as a main cause for many different kinds of inequalities:
Race (Whites/non-Whites)
Culture (Western/non-Western)
Family (nuclear family/non-nuclear family)
Religion (Christianity/atheism and religious minorities)
Gender (men/women)
Sexual orientation (heterosexual/LGBT)
Cultural Marxism places great emphasis on analyzing, controlling, and changing the popular culture, the popular discourse, the mass media, and the language itself. Seeing culture as often having more or less subconscious influences on people which create and sustain inequalities, Cultural Marxists themselves often try to remove these inequalities by more or less subtle manipulation and censorship of culture.
A term describing such censorship is political correctness where all views on equality that disagree with the Cultural Marxist view are avoided, censored, and punished.
Related to Cultural Marxism are various forms of relativism/subjectivism and denial of the existence of objective knowledge.

bjmuirhead

This discussion has been interesting, as is the post. Partially my interest has been because I know very little about lolicon, although I know quite a few young teenage boys (and one young woman) who love it, along with hentai, and more. None the less, my overall ignorance, coupled with the small amount I have seen, led to my not commenting, despite the fact that cartoons are now recognised as “persons” under law in my part of the world (but, of course, only if they show teenager and younger having some type of sexual relationship, or being sexual).
The idea that a cartoon is a person for purposes of the law under certain conditions seems quite absurd, but it is swallowed wholesale by many people. What is going on, quite obviously, is obfuscation. Of course, this occurs in relation to paedophilia also, where there is much evidence against the popular, generally held cultural views.
Apologies for stating both the obvious, and what most here already know, but my reason for doing so can be found here:
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160105-the-man-who-studies-the-spread-of-ignorance?
Ignorance about sexuality, about sex acts, and about so much else, is pandemic (yes, it is a type of disease in so many ways), and is readily spread. Again, we know this, but I thought it might be useful for some readers here, to have this article, and to search up some work by the mentioned researchers. Google scholar has a massive list for Robert N Proctor, many of them about the inculcation of ignorance (mostly about tobacco), and which I will be reading in order to discover some of the details about the promulgation of ignorance in society.
Gosh, this was a long way of giving a reference.

bjmuirhead

An explanatory quote from Melissa Littlefield, from http://alh.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/2/302.short

Robert Proctor identifies five ways that ignorance is (culturally) produced: “neglect and myopia” (i.e., choosing to ignore or overlook certain information), “extinction” (the loss of information), “secrecy” (hidden information), and “suppression” (i.e., censorship of information) (“Agnotology” 3). Each of these fits under one of three rubrics: “ignorance as native state (or resource), ignorance as lost realm (or selective choice), and ignorance as a deliberately engineered or strategic ploy (or active construct)” (3). The first kind, “native state,” grants ignorance an important and catalytic role in knowledge production; what we do not know prompts us to find answers and do more research. The second, “lost realm,” reflects the fact that knowledge production is selective; what we don’t know is a result of various choices. The
third type of ignorance, “strategic ploy,” encompasses the suppression of knowledge that we once had or the secrecy surrounding knowledge we don’t want to share. Although this is but one possible taxonomy for ignorance, it does reveal that what we do not know is imbricated in a network of sociopolitical, cultural, economic, and strategic constructions.

Of course, one’s ignorance often is revealed. The fact that I’ve only just discovered Proctor’s work is, needless to say, an example of my own ignorance.

bjmuirhead

Yes, indeed. In fact one thing which has bothered me for some time is the quite sharp distinction between the results of research and the clinical practice of psychology. This is instanced in the behaviour and comments of a local psychologist whom I know quite well. He recognises childhood sexuality and behaviour, and is at least vaguely aware of research such as Rind’s, but this awareness (limited, awareness, mind you) is not brought into his clinical work, if I am to believe his comments on his clinical work. This strikes me as both myopia and a loss of knowledge, however culturally induced.

Libertine

Might I add, You should also consider the comfortable lifestyle his job maintains, That should help with the old ‘obfuscation’ 🙂

bjmuirhead

Ah, sadly, he is not highly paid and in private practice. Also, I know him well enough to know that he is genuine in his comments. I cannot say the same about any other psychologist, of course.

Libertine

That reminds me of Dr Sean Gabb, He also has the gift of the Gabb and has criticised punitive child porn laws in the past, Though he seems to draw the line at viewing images, And he’s the sort of person that would not be afraid to go against the grain. Though his views on drink driving have the potential to be catastrophic in my view, and don’t get me started on gun ownership, and this comes from someone that used to wander off with a single barrel shotgun (and sometimes the farmers side-by-side) from the age of fourteen.

bjmuirhead

My answer would be long and even more off topic than other posts, so I’ll leave it unsaid.

Libertine

Shame…We love a good rant on here!

bjmuirhead

I’ve never said this on any blog before, but…LOL

THE LAST CRY OF THE DEFEATED MAN!

Willful Ignorance is LYING! The feminist-bastard authorities, the sick-tyranny that runs our sick society of liars.
They delete the fact that paederasty is the dominant cultural expression of homosexuality. Sick perverts like Stephen Fry ignore Wilde’s pederasty ( he wouldn’t want to know this prancing ponce, this loser, Stephen Fry ) It JUST ABOUT MAKES ME SICK!
They ignore the GREAT history.
This the MODERN FEMINIST WORLD
IT IS OVER
WE ARE THE LAST MEN
WE ARE FINISHED
OVER
Nobody cares what some fag-french professor said forty years ago.
“IF YOU WANT A VISION OF THE FUTURE PICTURE A FEMINIST BOOT STOMPING ON A MAN’S FACE”
THERE IS GOING TO BE NO REVOLUTION! IT IS OVER! SICK!

THE LAST CRY OF THE DEFEATED MAN!

Oh, you are not aware of his past then? Stephen Fry is a “boylover”. I know this for a FACT! I have been told by two people. One I knew in London ( a man in his late fifties who had been to Oxford ) told me that he was “present” at a party in the eighties where a fifteen year old boy was engaged in sexual exploits with a young man. Fry was in that room.

SickToDeathofMisandristLeftists!

CLARIFICATION: When I said he was a “boylover” I meant an unreconstructed faggot type who would love nothing more than to molest a boy. That’s what I meant.
Publish this, please.
He, the sickening bastard, is incapable of love.
PROTECT OUR BOYS FROM THESE GAY RAPISTS!

THE LAST CRY OF THE DEFEATED MAN!

Well, he has participated in a film that showed Oscar Wilde’s sexuality as being entirely androphile in nature. And, for that matter, L.A.D. He went on the Craig Ferguson show to point out that being gay is not the same as being a paedophile, and then used Tchaikovsky as an example of a great gay man. He is deleting the history of boylove and using it in service of his own cause, the gay cause. Tchaikovsky wrote Romeo and Juliet for a fifteen year old boy, and was a boylover in the classical sense. So, yes, he is a genocidal, feminist, misandrist maniac. The fact he was secretly an offender thirty years ago is neither here nor there. The “appropriation” of the culture of the so-called “minor attracted” even as the LGBT movement is at the vanguard of their GENOCIDE is the same as what the National Socialists did the 1930s to the Jewish residents there, a lot of whom considered themselves frankly German, culminating in the Kristallnacht.
Many gay men of a certain age admire Sandel to this day, appropriating it for their own culture. The novel “The Persian Boy” has been praised by bigot Dan Savage.
As for Fry’s tepid criticism, it is WELL KNOWN that a good few of his gay friends have been caught out for their DIRTY behaviour with boys ( mostly around sixteen ) .

Order

Tom, pls can you tell me why all these disgusting pedocrites either homos or heteros are always “ephebophiles”? why they like fucking ‘children’ aged 16 and 17 and at same time try to kill us for advocate to fuck ‘children’ under 15? Who they can know at age how become magically in adults and ok to fuck them? 16, 18, 21, 25?

Order

Pedocrites. Homosexuals are a bunch of sick people by nature. All of them. They love to watching fag-trash like Salo, yeah, that shitty movie defaming fascism and teenlove using boys aged 14 to being raped, forced to eat excrements and beaten almost to death. The director was a serial molester. Diseases. ME NE FREGO! I do not care.

THE LAST CRY OF THE DEFEATED MAN!

Thought Pasolini had been a pederast in the Classical sense. The so-called LGBT encyclopedia is a prime example of the cultural appropriation of boylove for the perverted androphile cause:
While openly gay from the very start of his career (thanks to a gay sex scandal that sent him packing from his provincial hometown to live and work in Rome), Pasolini rarely dealt with homosexuality in his movies.
The subject is featured prominently in Teorema (1968), where Terence Stamp’s mysterious God-like visitor seduces the son and father of an upper-middle-class family; passingly in Arabian Nights (1974), in an idyll between a king and a commoner that ends in death; and, most darkly of all, in Salò, or The 120 Days of Sodom (1975), his infamous rendition of the Marquis de Sade’s compendium of sexual horrors.[30]
Actually, the relationships he had were with boys, as noted earlier in the wikipedia article itself.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dmUIBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=pier+pasolini+teacher+ramuscello&source=bl&ots=b-yAXAaNmc&sig=kwvdXIzdq0sv5UCFLEzPZyb0-tg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwihks7bv_3PAhUOOsAKHS11DrMQ6AEIKzAB#v=onepage&q=ramuscello&f=false

Order

Perhaps these classic pederasts had to leave homosexuality and declared solely pederasts, so they had never been used and appropiated by same-age zealots. If they wanted to be part of the mainstream, now fuck them.
Leave the past, has died, you think the hebephiles does not pass the same with the straights? They do not ‘clean’ an Elvis or Bowie, I don’t know, perhaps the 99% of heterosexual men? Now I go to enjoy another shitty weekend.

Sugarboy

Here we can see Pasolini playing football with some boys in 1960:
FOR PHOTO SEE ABOVE: tomocarroll COMMENT OF
Oct 28, 2016 @ 21:10:44
(As for those who state that Pasolini was a “molester”, I recommend them to read his books and poetry, instead of Daily Mirror and Human Stupidity…)
[Tom, can you put the picture into my message so that it can be seen directly without clicking on the link? I don’t know how to do that].
TOC: COLUMN TOO NARROW. SEE PHOTO ABOVE.

leonard sisyphus mann

I’ve missed some really interesting exchanges here and it feels a little late to join in.
But on the subject of Stephen Fry – he made an incendiary edition in the second series of his light radio chat show ‘Saturday Night Fry’ back in (I think) the late 1980s, with Brian Sewell as one of his guests, in which he deals with ‘Moral Panics’. He excoriates hysterical attitudes towards child sexuality and paedophilia in a manner that would have him tarred and feathered today. Sewell is even more radical, drawing the line only at intimacy with ‘babes in arms’.
Interestingly all episodes of SNF are available on youtube – except this one! And it seems that there are no BBC recordings available of this second series of SNF. It seems that all involved want the existence of this episode forgotten.
As it happens I’ve got a copy of this ‘moral panics’ episode. You can download it here – it’s worth a listen and reveals something of Fry’s (and Sewell’s) true thoughts on the issues of child sexuality and paedophilia:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ba3uoizcfx9ken8/Saturday%20Night%20Fry%20-%20%28Talk%20Show%29%20-%20S01%20-%20E07%20-%20Moral%20Panic.mp3?dl=0

bjmuirhead

Thanks for that. I’ve heard about this episode before, but never had a copy. Looking forward to some listening.

HA!

Thank you! This will DESTROY Fry!

SickToDeathofMisandristLeftists!

In the end the bastard press never picked this up. shame. i would have enjoyed his suicide.
by the way, o carroll, fry only goes along with the trends to seem popular edgy and cool. he has changed his tone completely so please stop sucking his dick.
he is a trash entertainer of the english middle classes.

Order

Are you and Tom aware of this too? You know that the Greeks you love put their willies in some child slaves ass too? that’s Greek love? sodomite children? Feminists hate pederasts for this. And they hate pedophiles for having sex with prepubescent children. All of you support it and all of you want to do, do not lie. I try to defend pedophiles, but it’s fuck hard, ok?

bjmuirhead

Yes, and public discourse seems to be poisoned more every day, and all using the tactics described by Proctor. Unfortunately I haven’t got a clue what we need to change this. By which I mean: we who would change it do not have the power and money to effect the necessary changes.

Dissident

The idea that a cartoon is a person for purposes of the law under certain conditions seems quite absurd, but it is swallowed wholesale by many people. What is going on, quite obviously, is obfuscation.
Hi, bjmuirhead. I’ve always conjectured that the reason the absurd notion of a cartoon character being treated as a real person under the law but only when it comes to sexual activity is swallowed so readily by so many people is not because they seriously believe the cartoon child is somehow “harmed” by the activity, but rather as viewing this as a disrespectful assault upon what any depiction of a child represents to Western culture. The Innocent Child is a very sacrosanct paradigm that is revered as something holy and pure despite manifesting in an entirely secular manner. If you depict sexual acts even with a mere fictitious representation of a child, you are nevertheless guilty in the eyes of our culture for violating a very sacred paradigm. This is akin to making equivalent depictions of the Virgin Mary in a devoutly Catholic society. In such a society, depicting a painted or CGI generated image of the Blessed Mother involved in sexual acts would be seen as a violation of a religious icon of purity much as the iconic image of The Child serves in our society on a secular level. And we all know that the religious foundation of Western culture’s secular ideology considers sexuality to be a taint on conceptions of “purity” and “innocence.”
As some pundits might say in defense of these laws if you happen to point out the logical fact that no real child is involved in the cartoon depictions: “It’s just the principle of the matter, mate!”

bjmuirhead

Dissident, I think you are correct, but only partially so. This situation is more complex and nuanced, I suspect, beginning with the sex-negativity of the majority of Western cultures, and the consequent uneasy relationship many have with their own bodies and sexuality.
This deep, cultural discomfort extends to images, thoughts, and even the most innocent of behaviours, and especially to children who do not restrain their physicality and eroticism. I am using eroticism in a very general sense, not in a sexual sense, to mean simple love and joy of life and their bodies. Nearly everyone finds this attractive, and enjoys being around it, but the uneasy sexuality many have relates this to paedophilia and then, by category error, to cartoons of children being sexy. (I hasten to add that non-paedophiles and paedophiles alike enjoy this same aspect of children. Why wouldn’t a non-paedophile worry about this and extend it beyond real children. Anyway, back to what I’m trying to say in answer.)
Moreover, because of the belief that if someone likes looking at such images, then they are likely to go out and perform the pictured acts, the result is a type of ex parte victimisation of children. This comes straight from feminism (I am thinking of Catharine MacKinnon, Andrea Dworkin and Susan Griffiths), where the claim has been made that the simple act of taking a photograph of a woman, even if she gives consent, is an act of oppression and assault. (The patriarchy is strong. sic.) This is to say that it can be a cartoon, of any style, and it will victimise children, even though they are not present. Also, and of course, mere looking at a woman or a child can be sexual assault. (I believe that in America, men have been charged with rape, and convicted, without ever meeting or touching the women concerned.) It is easy, therefore, to place cartoons of sexy children (doing or not doing sexual things) into the category of child pornography.
And, of course, it is a moral issue generally. Finkelhor, (http://dx.doi.org/10.1300/J082v20n01_18) as we all know, maintained that

…the prohibition on adut-child sexual contact is primarily a moral issue. While empirical findings have some relevance they are not the final arbiter. The social judgement that slavery is reprehensible would not have been challenged by empirical findings that some slaves felt positively about being a slave (as some undoubtedly did) or even benefited from it. […] Some types of social relationships violate deeply held values and principles in our culture about equality and self-determination. Sex between adults and children is one of them. Evidence that certain children have positive experiences does not challenge these values, which have deep roots in our worldview.

In respect of children, Finkelhor’s view has been expanded, via various types of hysterical news reports and articles, to include cartoons, and sitting in the park while children are present and playing.
But, the reason I quoted Finkelhor is because he is wrong: empirical evidence, (aka, how the majority of people really behave and react), is moral evidence in that it challenges those moral principles and ethical views which are majority held. It especially challenges those moral and ethical views which have been codified into law. The obvious response must be the strengthening of those laws by those who first promoted them, and by those who maintain them. (Of course, the law, as Oliver said, is an ass.)
These are only some of the things I can think of immediately that need to be included in your view so that it entertains all of the possible reasons why cartoons of children fucking are treated as persons under the law. To repeat myself, which I am sure I do quite often, I agree with you, but let’s add in a few things.

bjmuirhead

Yes, I knew I shouldn’t have put that in, the minute I couldn’t find the reference. As for MacKinnon, et. al., I suspect they have had a greater affect (effect?) than is generally realised.
Unfortunately I cannot be bothered unpacking my books (moving house soon) to check if the reference is in one of Mackinnon”s texts, although it may have been an electronic text, I am not sure. (This is why I prefer printed material—I all too often lose electronic records.)

stephen6000

Yes, and to add to this, Finkelhor was wrong because it is empirically FALSE that people ever give informed consent to slavery. He may he been confused by the fact that people do sometimes agree to put themselves in the SERVICE of others (without recompense) but that is totally different from agreeing to put yourself in a position where another person is entitled to over-ride every one of your wishes because they own you..
Pedant’s corner: it was Mr Bumble who said the law is an ass, ,not Oliver!

bjmuirhead

Indeed, I sit corrected, because I cannot be bothered standing. It is somewhat annoying to discover that the reference I was given so long ago is incorrect, but better to learn. Pedantry accepted gratefully.
As for your other point, yes. Some slaves may claim to be happy, but even if they were “genuinely happy” to be a slave, it would be self-deception. I cannot imagine anyone volunteering to be a slave, unless it was to escapt something even more horrible.

Libertine

You may find this video interesting ‘Tom’..I have not watched all of it yet, So reserve judgement; he is a bit of a connoisseur when it comes to Metal bands, And obviously a fan of the late MJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pnoQqlygQs

Order

You’re a good man, Tom.

THE LAST CRY OF THE DEFEATED MAN!

He’s a typical cocksucker! His whole demeanour with his swearing. He’s another product of the declining past forty years. Pathetic bourgeois losers like Stephen Fry who are so trendy and “socialist” when they sit around in a 1st World Country living off the labour of millions around the world.
They can afford to swear. They know nothing of the decline in standards in the less affluent parts of town. READ PETER HITCHENS for the TRUTH!
They are sickening scum. He should have a shotgun placed in his mouth just for those very sunglasses he’s wearing, the squalid cunt.
NOW: We NEED to reaffirm the culture, tradition, mother and father.

Order

Parents hate boyfuckers, girlfuckers and teenfukers, as they would find you with her son, they would hang and dismember you. The shit you propose is useless. Parents are the biggest piece of shit of the entire human race.

Libertine

They think if a ‘pedo’ touches their child, The kid will self-destruct, especially by those non-family members of course; Maybe for some, there is a projection of envy, I bet if you strapped one of those ‘child protection’ workers down in front of images of naked kids, Their penile blood-flow would be off the chart!

Dissident

You know I read your book, Tom, and rest assured the day will come–however distant from the present that may or may not be–when it’s lauded as the definitive study of this aspect of Jackson’s life.

bjmuirhead

Question to TOC: Is the book on paper? I’d love to buy if it’s on paper, but as I print all pdfs in order to ready them, one that size would remain unprinted and unread.

bjmuirhead

Gotta laugh. I was looking at Book Depository, where I normally purchase, and it wasn’t there. Thanks for the link.

stephen6000

So it’s back on Amazon? Hadn’t it been withdrawn because Jackson fans made a big fuss? I’m pleased if Amazon had a change of heart. Or am I getting my facts confused?

stephen6000

Thanks for the clarification, Tom.

Order

It’s like when you read that right-wing funny propaganda, first going well until it says something against “sex with teens”.. first he says “it’s ok to break unjust laws, I free to see what I want” and then “I personally have no problem with people who have just an attraction to children or those in their early teens and never act on it.” ok so he can break the law, and I do not. I suppose “early teens are real children and too young, it’s molestation is need to be punished by law!” bah I think it has been a bit like Rudolf Hess, a law-breaker (and enforcer of laws at the same time) who masturbated compulsively. Porn is the nectar of the ignorant I see. Sorry guys I can NOT stand with people with double standards. I’m a damn fascistic but I admit it, I do not justified by the “justice”, “this is not the same” and things like that.

Jigsy

Would you be so kind to elucidate on this?

Libertine

On the subject of Loli-lyrics…BABYMETAL KARATE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvD3CHA48pA

Order

With one of them I would be happy. Yes, two of the chicks are 17, but if it’s barely adult, it’s enough barely for me!

Order

Since this post is about the subject of inmoral hate against attraction to young girls in works, here goes another TRUTH demonstrating that feminism is the worst tumor of humanity:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue
TL;DR Jealous women (Aka feminist old hags) who hate men who like to enjoy attractive adolescents even in fiction works. No more, no less.
So if anyone still has not assumed that feminism is the enemy 1 # of humanity please jump from a window.

stephen6000

I shall not be jumping, Order. Some feminists are definitely sympathetic to our cause — Judith Levine and Camille Paglia come to mind. Tarring all feminists with the same brush is like saying that all MAPs are bad people because of the bad behaviour of a minority of them.

Order

You have said, minority, feminists are at 99% hostile, even some “pro-sex radicals.” And being MAP is a sexual condition, being a feminist is a moral conviction. And although they support the MAP, which is good about feminism? equality? a delirium that weakens us as a civilization. Nor do I see any of these radicals speak against the majority of age (the real source of problem), it seems that the new religion is to assume adulthood at 18. (I can be wrong)
The rights of women have always been here, why they have to fight? rights are to be equivalent to man (not equal) to be feminine, to be a mother, feminists hate that, and hate gender roles, hierarchy, strength, all which makes that we are not living in mud houses. Feminism, in all its forms, are statism and fascism, they want that the state to control your life, instead of religion or natural laws, but feminists are more clever than the fascists, they realized to is better to degenerating people and give them a life of meaningless sex than to sexually repressing them (compare 1984 vs Brave New World)

stephen6000

The trouble with you, Order, is you’re just against too many things.

Order

I could tell you why I hate everything, but you’re ready to it? A warning, It is not something that ordinary mortals can handle.

stephen6000

I have a reasonably strong stomach and I’m always ready to listen.

Order

Ok, per example If you had to choose which you prefer? wikipedia, rationalwiki, consevapedia or metapedia? I prefer metapedia and afther removing the stupid hatred of minor-Attracted most support that way of thinking, so is logical that I shun everything this society has to offer, especially their equality-for-all myth. Others just hate me, but I also hate his philosophy too. I’m extreme right maybe? maybe not, but socialist and liberal certainly I’m not.
Also apart to politics, I am a (for lack of a better word) A racialist pantheistic, so I care that each person does in his private life, because as an sexual pantheistic I think we are not people with our individual bodies, but what you do in your bed in private then affects me, physically, mentally or spiritually, not only in racial aspect like the others ignorants nazis thinks.
In the sexual aspect (the most important aspect of life) we are one, because we are the same species, so we must go in unison, and eradicate perversions and control sexual life, yes, it is arbitrary, put limits but is the price of sexual purity, maybe I’m a sexual totalitarist? a religious fundamentalist? I do not know, just know that what you do in private affects me then in some form, after much searching I believe pantheism is a certain logical religion, we are all connected, so is logical to do not allow others to tarnish my purity. While not taint me I’m ok with everyone.

stephen6000

Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that your animosity to almost everything was rooted in some traumatic experiences you had had, in which case I was curious to know what they were. What you’re actually talking about is less personal things.

Order

Well.. talking about intimate things is not easy, and what I say is based on personal experiences, and traumatic in many ways… that’s why I hate humanity, is something intimate and personal, the other post is just the philosophical part. Also counts as traumatic experience being raped every day by feminists too? Imagine that one dictator prohibits sex and marriage, it is probably he would be killed by an angry mob, sex and intimacy is something we need to live, and to me this “people” rape me by forcing me to only have sex (or simply have an girlfriend) with girls over 18. Of course, all of you already know this issue.
And Is VERY hard to say this… You know what is live with unintended experiences and not knowing whether they are true or product of your mind (even this own day)? that’s why I oppose sex before puberty (and other things) because I have my own reasons, not because I’m an hypocritical anti-feminist who advocate teensex but hate those who like prepubescents (like many) just to remain a bit better at society.

Peace

The idea that child-adult sexuality is inherently dangerous is not an idea or conspiracy that’s pushed solely by feminists – it is an idea that is shared the world hereover by feminists, non-feminists, men, women, teenagers, adults, and everything in between. I am a feminist, and I wish for girls and women to be able to safely express their sexuality (straight, gay, MAP, or otherwise) and for them to be protected from sexual exploitation and rape – these two ideas are not in conflict with each other.
There are indeed problems within feminism, from TERFs to radical feminism to a lack of focus on WOC to violent misandry, but it would be silly to assume that such a large movement is entirely cohesive in its ways and ideas. We MAPs share the same space as Virtuous Pedophiles, a group which many commenters here have expressed disdain for, but we are often placed together by a few ideas and life experiences which we share – it’s the same with radical feminists and plain ol’ everyday feminists.

Order

It must be a conspiracy of David Icke size, because even me thinks child-sex is inherently dangerous (not adult-sex, the age of partner is irrelevant to damage). I was speaking of hatred of the ‘adolescentsexuality’ (for lack of a better word), you can see a reasonable difference between adolescents and adults? I do not, put in google some like ‘Miss Teen’ to see the non-difference, no thoughtful person can see bad or wrong to like / sex with adolescents if him also see ok sex with adults, only poor drugged people of the kind who are using avatars of Black Panthers on Twitter or a purple fist with the symbol of Venus. These people who oppose adolescent-adult sex are mentally ill, looking out there and you find some dissociative disorder at least they have it for sure.
See this: http://whiteresister.com/images/whiteprideblackpride.jpgcomment image
I don’t like these feminist/equality people, that’s what happens. I’m racialist pantheistic, what matters to me is the salvation of the species not the individual wishes.
Therefore I support sex from puberty because it is a natural right (made by nature) and good for our species development and health. I simply do not believe in your kind of freedom and rights made by man (or ‘womyn’).
Oh well I suppose I just hate feminism because I just dislike birth control pills.. (One mania I have) baka of me.. =_=

Libertine

We can argue the toss over when a child becomes ‘sexually awakened’, I have mentioned to you before about the occurrence of adrenarche, That occurs before puberty. But maybe arguing for childhood sexual rights at puberty is the better idea; Lets face it, Not many people have heard of adrenarche, But most laymen are well aware of puberty. Though It may not be easy to tell if a kid has just started puberty, You could just go by the average-age rule of thumb, Lets see what others think.

Libertine

Just to correct myself, Stating what should be blindingly obvious — You can tell the onset of puberty in girls when they get they’re first menarche…When I wrote that last comment, I had boys on the brain!
Because I find both young males and females attractive, It can depend on who I may see during the events of the day, Sometimes, I may pass a hot girl or woman (god forbid)! Or a nice looking adolescent or pubescent boy, Ii may think about them later…I will make the most of it, Before actual ‘thought’ becomes a crime.
Here is an ignorant quote from Morrissey:””I see no difference between eating animals and paedophilia. They are both rape, violence, murder. If I’m introduced to anyone who eats beings, I walk away.”

Order

Libertine, think I must say a things, if not its impossible that any person understand what I say, is that I am truly sorry for the pedosexuals, I really do not hate them, I myself am attracted to prepubescent at least 7, 8 or so, in fact I think that pedophilia is something most nearly 80% of healthy humans, not 1% as psychiatrists say. I hate to seem a discriminator in the grounds of sexuality like many other hebephiles I myself criticize the child abuse hysteria, but my world must follow some guidelines, is not the liberated world of these people, it is a world who drinks from a quasi-religious sentiment, where hebephilia is natural for the kind of world I want, like the socialists and libertarians MAPs want a world whether communal or liberal where children have a sexuality in society/private property, in mine world would be a dark enlightened, feudal, totalistic, militarist, mystical theocracy where equality is abhorred especially in the age of partners, but also puberty (i.e adolescence) is considered the actual first and most important age of the person, therefore also as I said puberty is true stage of life, not only the ability to reproduce, if that happens it is because are young adults. that’s why. Just look at the name, your libertine (freedom, pleasure, freethinking) and order (hierarchy, sacrifice, power, even ‘religious order’) is the opposite, it’s funny.
And that guy is imbecile, I myself complaint meat consumption to be part of the culture of death (not only humans like churches complain), as I denounce the genocide advocates of MAPs. But remember that the word pedophile has lost all meaning, and no one knows to what they refer in many cases.

Peace

This is a little late, but you seem to fundamentally misunderstand what the “pride” is phrases like “black pride” or “female pride” means. It does not mean “I am proud to be black, period”; it means “I am proud to be black and survive in a world which is constantly racist towards me, dismissive of my views, and which is on average more difficult to live in due to my skin color alone.” The phrase “white pride” does not carry the same significance due to the lack of systematic racism and societal discrimination against white people, and in fact “white pride” almost always only comes up in opposition to “black pride.” You can see this in the recent BLM movement, where white people are quick to say “White lives matter!” or “All lives matter!”
You believe that sexual activity from puberty is natural, yet most of the world sees it as “deviant,” “different,” or “not the norm.” Would you take pride in standing up for yourself and what you believe are your rights? Would you like to change people’s minds about what is “normal” or “right”? It is the same basic idea with POC, women, and LGBT people – in a society which deems them as second-class or not normal, they fight to have their voices heard and fight for their right to exist without being discriminated against.

Order

Really they live worse mainly because of their skin color? or will be more for his mental condition, intelligence or genetic predisposition?
See much articles about it, is a MAP web, not a nazi one:
http://human-stupidity.com/race
Of course you never can admit that the white race is MINORITY in their own country, and is systematically ethnically eliminated (genocide) thanks to the promotion of white racial self-hatred. I have nothing mistaken. Because you (and people of your liberal ideology) do not care about your own race, you do not believe that women and men and races are different not equal and need to complement each other, or gender roles and heterosexuality it’s natural and not a evolutionary misfit like LGTBers and “libertated” women? As I will convince you this is good?
Ah no, ok, races do not exist, and not is good to keep them different, that’s about crazy Nazis. In 2150 No more beautiful redheads or Japanese girls (or boys) but a most-brown mixture with the more unpleasant features. We are not equal and do not deserve the same rights. And some are superiors and other inferiors in many aspects, japaneses like to be more white (like all J-idols are most-white), we would like be (even) more inteligent as japaneses, blacks are generally less inteligent, inequality is natural.

Peace

I apologize, I didn’t realize I was speaking with a literal white supremacist. Since your mind is made up, I do admit that my comment will very likely be in complete vain, but I’d still like to reply for the benefit of anybody reading.
Yes, they do live worse due to their skin color alone. Did you know that job applicants with white sounding names have a 50 percent better chance of being called back for an interview than their counterparts with black-sounding names, even when all qualifications are the same? Or that the lightest-skinned immigrants to the United States make as much as 15 percent more than the darkest, even when the immigrants in question have the same level of education, experience and measured productivity? The difference in how lighter-skinned black people and darker-skinned black people are treated is startling.
I recommend taking a look at Tim Wise’s article that discusses and gives links to a huge number of blatantly racist going-ons in the US: http://www.timwise.org/2010/07/black-powers-gonna-git-you-sucka-right-wing-paranoia-and-the-rhetoric-of-modern-racism/
If we’re going by numbers alone, white people are in the majority with around 77% of the US population being white (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/table/PST045215/00). That seems like a pretty high percent for a race that’s apparently facing “genocide.” I do not hate my own race, and in fact I love being white because it means I don’t have to face an unrelenting amount of racism and discrimination.

Nada

the lightest-skinned immigrants to the United States make as much as 15 percent more than the darkest
Not much of difference, I’d say. Does such a pattern necessarily hold outside of the US, in other nations, cultures or eras? If so, should lighter-skinned people necessarily be penalized? Need everyone, in a general sense, be make equivalent to everyone else? Are no differences between people tolerable?
As for not facing discrimination, good for you, (so far!) as a individual. I’ve been denied jobs, despite being better qualified due to my sex, skin color and ethnicity. If my pedophilia become known, I expect to be fired immediately and virtually blacklisted. Tom may consider it less than brave to only speak here under the cover of pseudoanonymity, but it’s a compromise I have to make currently. Others depends on me.
I need not mention the obvious sexism male pedophiles face, in particular those working with children. I’d gladly pay 15% of my meager income to escape the very discrimination SJWs gladly support.
As an admitted feminist, do you support such such sexism?
I’m somewhat spoiled having few SJWs invade my current online homes. Despite our ideological differences, I’m thankful to my fellow MAPs for daring to stand up against them.

Peace

You may say that 15% of a difference isn’t that much, but any difference that’s above 0% is too much. I’m a US citizen and so can only speak for the US in terms of racism and other forms of discrimination, but I must ask: in what ways are lighter-skinned citizens being penalized?
In addition, you do realize that a large amount of modern feminists support breaking down barriers for both genders? Though MRAs are loathe to admit it, feminists fight for many if not most of the same things they do. Radfems may hate men, but a small portion of a movement does not fully represent a movement. The thought that women are naturally more inclined to be mothering and more caring for children – the main reason why most elementary school teachers and volunteers are female – is not a female or feminist invention. Men are often pushed, by other men and the assumption that women will take care of the kids, to only focus on work or supporting the family through monetary means alone instead of on spending time with his kids. With feminism, stifling and traditional gender roles and stereotypes can be broken down. This means that women will not be seen as more fitting to raise and nurture children than men are, and men will not be seen as less fitting to raise and nurture children than women are. When men and women are seen as equals in terms of caring for children, I believe the thought that men must have an ulterior motive for wanting to be near children will disappear. Feminists and MAPs can peacefully co-exist, and in fact should try to do so. I believe “SJWs” should be present in the MAP community so that MAPs who are of color, gay, trans, or female can feel comfortable and be able to discuss things with fellow MAPs.
I’m a male pedophile who volunteers with children and teenagers, and yeah, I get the weird looks, the double-takes, the questions, the insinuations. I’ve sent in applications to plenty of places that have never given me a second look. Sometimes I’m the only adult male on the whole team. However, I still volunteer and fight through that because I wish for the kids I work with to have a strong male role model and I wish to empower kids of every race, religion, gender, and sexuality. I dunno, I don’t think that’s a bad goal.

Nada

The idea that child-adult sexuality is inherently dangerous is not an idea or conspiracy that’s pushed solely by feminists
Butler and her ilk, feminists, did campaign to strip girls of the rights in the 19th century. The self-proclaimed feminists among MAPs rarely admit as much before starting their predictable apology for feminism. Do you support throwing girls under the bus to advance the “rights” of some few women?
As my girls suffer, due to such feminist policies, I see no reason to support feminism.
It would be akin to a white lover of blacks supporting Apartheid.

Peace

I said “pushed solely by feminists,” not “created by feminists.” Were feminists among the first of those who decried child-adult sexuality? Probably, but only as a pushback to cases of actual and harmful rape and exploitation. When people see all child-adult sexuality as rape, then it’s very easy to oppose it; if I personally believed that such sexuality was inherently harmful, then I would also oppose it.
In addition, the opinion of those from over 200 years ago does not always correspond with the opinions of those from today. White people created Jim Crow laws back in the 19th century, but guess what? Tons upon tons of white people now know that such laws were dehumanizing and would oppose them now.
Your girls likely gain more from feminism than you think, even if it’s in ways that aren’t readily apparent.

Libertine

These moral panics always happen after some isolated, yet horrific occurrence, Whether its ‘Mark Dutroux’, In Belgium, Or Spain’s raising of the age of consent from 13 to 16, After an adult murdered the minor that he was in a relationship with. The age of consent in Spain was 13 for a long time, To respect the cultural traditions of their gypsy community .
Here is a blast from an alien era “she’s jailbait, and I just can’t wait”…love it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaieV5FaoNs

Order

It is not the reason, it is the excuse, as the assassination of German diplomat by a Jew who led Nazis to their justification of the Kristallnacht. Two adult kills their adult partner every day on average and only in Spain (official numbers), is an epidemic, there are so many murders of adults who do not even bother nobody think about them except feminists, you’ve seen the statistics of domestic violence not only against women but against men? the women against women as well. A week ago some adults raped several adult women in Spain in one of their national holidays of pathethic animal abuse. Rapist include police officer. Search in google.All day dozens of people kill their adult partners in all the world. They are vulnerable because they are toxic relationships in nature. There are also many toxic relations and killings among teenagers.
sorry this rant Libertine but I hate that shit of jailbait’m sick of that people remember about going to jail, stop laugh at yourselves, gays never say that is their homosexuality is hangbait. there is not a moment that not remind us that it is illegal, which is persecuted, we’ll rot in jail, even this post on lolicon is about this, enough! I want to be happy.

Order

Sorry if offended you before, but some are very hyperemotional by all the hatred and persecution (for many many years) against us in every aspect, clearly that you take it otherwise, I respect.

Libertine

No problem…I get days like that, But sometimes taking the piss is quite cathartic. its funny, In the News they are going to start pardoning homosexuals who fell foul of the law, When homosexuality was still illegal before 1967. Would they be in such a rush to pardon a man who had a homosexual affair with someone who just turned sixteen, suppose they would have to.
Maybe one day Tom O’Carroll will be pardoned, But none of us will hold our breath!

feinmann0

And whilst on the topic of pardoning Tom O’Carroll, I hear that the fake sheik has today been jailed for perverting the course of justice and that he is ‘a very frightened man’ … ‘not expecting to be the most welcome inmate’: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3858660/Fake-sheikh-Mazher-Mahmood-jailed-15-months.html The article mentions that: ‘The Crown Prosecution Service has dropped a number of live cases in the wake of the Tulisa trial and has identified a total of 42 past cases with 72 defendants involving Mahmood.’ Do you intend to pursue Mazher Mahmood or News UK in a civil claim Tom?

Order

I do not know who the hell should care what pardoning or not pardon a society or state. We only obey his laws (at least me) for fear of vicious reprisals, State bodies are an organized mafia, a cult, everything that makes the state, is usually what makes a cult. obey the laws, pay taxes.
And pardon homosexuality? interesting concept because… The Gays Are Our Misfortune!
Thanks them and feminist (GENDER FASCIST-SOCIALIST)lesbians they are now the alpha-plus (social researchers and in mental profession lesbian radfems) alphas (norm lesbian) and betas (gays), then always mediocre gammas (straights) and in the bottom the repulsive delta (for some reason +16 ephebophle and non-mainstrean queers) and beast-like infrahuman Epsilon (pedophiles and hebephiles) this is the new social hierarchy, adds meaningless sex and meaningless life and you have today’s society. To Love girls, boys and teens is the worst for them. Ok. To Hell With Them!

HeydrichOfBoylove

Dan Savage’s lover was 16 when he started with him. One of Savage’s shows is with a “pedo” shrink expert. Savage got off on a “technicality” – so now he says, “thank god, I’m not a pedo”. Right. The interview can be downloaded in MP3 format somewhere, I think.

For The Children

‘JAILBAIT’ penned by Motorhead’s, Ian ‘Lemmy’ Kilmister, ‘Fast’ Eddie Clarke Phil ‘Philthy Animal’ Taylor, for their 27 Oct 1980 issued iconic album, ‘ACE OF SPADES’* (*Highest card in the pack, like ‘Hi Card’ high risk Lolis in the sack).
Hey baby you ‘re a sweet young thing,
Still tied to mommy ‘s apron strings,
I don ‘t even dare to ask your age,
It ‘s enough to know you ‘re here backstage,
You ‘re jailbait, and I just can ‘t wait,
Jailbait baby come on
One look baby, all I need,
My decision made at lightning speed,
I don ‘t even want to know your name,
It ‘s enough to know you feel the same,
You ‘re jailbait, and I just can ‘t wait,
Jailbait baby come on
Hey babe you know you look so fine,
Send shivers up and down my spine,
I don ‘t care about our different ages,
I ‘m an open book with well thumbed pages,
You ‘re jailbait, and I just can ‘t wait,
Jailbait baby come on
And, ‘Moe’ HOT lyrics ‘n’ licks ’bout ever cunt-raversial Hell Raisin’ HOT Rockin’ Rollin’ Lolis*. (*2015 FTC Web-tagged, ‘All The Rage, Under Age – The New Rock n Roll!’)
Plus HOT Lynx fer Cool Cats ‘n’ y’all wicked Wikipaedophiles:
1937, ‘Good Morning Little Schoolgirl’ penned ‘n’ cut by John Lee ‘Sonny Boy’ Williamson.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Morning,_School_Girl
1958, ‘Sweet Little Rock & Roller’ penned ‘n’ cut by Charles Edward ‘Chuck’ Berry’ – ‘appropriately’ on his 1959 album ‘Chuck Berry Is On Top’.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Berry_Is_on_Top
1968, ‘Young Girl’ penned by Jerry Fuller for Gary Puckett & The Union Gap.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Girl_(song)
1980, ‘Don’t Stand So Close To Me’ penned by Gordon Matthew Thomas ‘Sting’ Sumner CBE, for his band ‘The Police’.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Stand_So_Close_to_Me
1994, ‘So Young’, penned by Rolling Stones Mick Jagger & Keith Richards for their, er, “7 Inch” CD ‘Out Of Tears’ track 5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_Tears
Plus, not fergettin’ yer iconic HOT Rockin’ Lolis cuntraversially posed on BIG Rock albums:
1969, ‘Blind Faith’ eponymous by, er, Blind Faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Faith_(Blind_Faith_album)
1976, ‘Virgin Killer’ by The Scorpions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Killer

Order

Well I see Lemmy just enjoy Nazi-esque uniforms… when I could get the iron cross of Hebe too?
Hey For The Children a thing You forgot this song! I listened in my earliest days when I realized about my attraction, because I don’t knew more songs about that.
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/o/oingo+boingo/little+girls_20102778.html

Peace

For anybody who wants loli-lyrics straight from Japan, the heavy metal band Fast Draw had a song simply titled “Lolita Complex” on their 1987 album, the lyrics of which I’ve taken the liberty of translating:
“I lo-lo-love unripe fruit
I’m tired of mature women!
Fight! Fight! Take off that school uniform
Fight! Fight! Tear away those printed panties
I lo-lo-love small breasts
I cry out, ‘I’m getting bigger’
Fight! Fight! From top to bottom
Fight! Fight! Restlessly licking and licking
I lo-lo-love whiteboard girls
Drool flowing from my smiling mouth
Fight! Fight! With an open stride
Fight! Fight! The goal has entered my sight
Lolita complex
Old man’s pink sigh
Lolita complex
Pink sigh paradise”
The only other Japanese song I can think of off the top of my head that has loli-lyrics is a Maximum the Hormone song called “Chuu Chuu Lovely,” which includes the lyrics:
“A college student would be good, a high-schooler would be good, a middle-school student would also be good
An elementary-schooler would be good, especially if they’re tantalizing, even a kindergartner would be fine”

Christian
Winston Smith
Order

Adolf ‘Jimmy Savile’ Hitler too, their groupie Eva Braun had only 17 at time… these stupid germanic rockstar pedos …

Order

I think there is a difference between enjoy sensual drawings of anime young girls, and being a lolicon or moe of these. I like girls in real life, I do not want to devote my life to nonexistent beings, but this post get me back memories when I was a young lolicon, getting back to those simpler and more pleasant old times looking anime girls, in fact from little girls to late teens… no problem. but now I would not go lower from nubiless, or whatever thing that I said in my broken syntax (i have no idea too!?).
There are some anime characters of pubescent girls who are great, not lolicon but from mature histories, and really touch your soul, you love them as if they were real, with children is more difficult because even in real life they are already fairly flat (pun intended)
This post however is not really about lolicon, is more than about the suppression of normal men taste for young girls, but adapted to the Asian world and the Japanese in particular, and managed by a satanic pact of feminists and old conservatives, and sealed by leftists, homosexualist and the new right, i.e Nazis (national-SOCIALISTS).
“At the height of the boom, women’s magazines ran critical and unflattering articles about lolicon, with titles such as “Girls are the victims of lolicon’s desires.” > but what a bunch of victimist maniacal hags are the feminists!!
Un-PC ALERT: MAPs are the victims of feminist’s jealous desires!!
“praise from the Tokyo Elementary School Parent-Teacher Association and other child-safety organizations.” > Conservatives Nazis here playing the game with her feminist friends, as the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact !! Why?? well, remember: parents are parasites, need vampirize their own children, they do not allow it to others!
Warning: Final Hate Speech: now the manga and anime is dominated by the LGTB plague, once removed the boylove and girlove have free way for their feminist virus! taste for young girls and boys is an ideology to overthrow his wicked world!

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