Heretic TOC gets its mojo back

The year began with a night of doubt and sorrow for Heretic TOC, or rather a somewhat more lingering concern, hinted at briefly on New Year’s Eve in a blog called “Truth, reality and baby elephants”, which spoke in riddles suffused with existential angst.
I said I feared for the blog’s mojo, and by implication my own, but remained silent as to the reason. A couple of months later, though, the Daily Mail let the cat was out of the bag in a story that mentioned my conviction last year for “historic” offences in 1978. Now that the case had been propelled into the public domain, and not in a flattering way, obviously, I felt the time had come to give my side of the story. So I wrote about it in “A rare escape, without bribery or bloodshed”, explaining my good fortune in remaining at liberty despite the present trend towards very long prison sentences.
The reason I left the court a free man, I wrote, is that neither the judge, nor the prosecution, nor crucially even the “victims” themselves, appeared to have seen me as callously “predatory”. Also, the judge emphasised that I was entitled to express my views.
Why, then, would the case leave me feeling Heretic TOC might lose its mojo, putting the blog’s future in doubt? Put simply, I worried that I might find it hard to write honestly, confidently and positively on Kind issues in future without addressing why anyone had wanted to bring a case against me in the first place. The “rare escape” blog gave me the opportunity to do that. With the cat freed from the bag, I too felt liberated from my silence and able to put my side of the story.
Since then, I feel, Heretic TOC has been substantially reinvigorated. The spring and summer months following my personal revelations saw several of what I believe to have been my best ever blogs, notably  “The law, lore and allure of the jungle”, “Latin lovers versus British bum bandits”, “Acceptable danger: the sky is the limit?” and “Willy power and ‘the will to power’”. There have also been some excellent guest blogs, by  David Kennerly, Feinmann (twice), Cyril Galaburda, David, and Peace. Readers’ enthusiasm and engagement seems to have picked up more in the autumn and winter months, with blogs regularly attracting a hundred or more published comments, many of them of a very high standard in terms of richly informative content and cogent argument.
My anxiety at the end of last year that Heretic TOC might not recover its mojo following my narrow escape from prison was of course preceded by a long period in the run-up to the trial when mojo (by which I mean a mix of excitement, interest, energy and enthusiasm) was the least of my problems. The immediate threat was a long stretch behind bars, with a five- or six-year sentence a real possibility. If that had come to pass, Heretic TOC would probably have ceased to exist in terms of fresh contributions by me, although I did have kind offers from guest bloggers and other friends to keep things going if the worst came to the worst.
I had some very generous financial offers, too, at a time when it looked as though I might be faced with heavy legal costs in order to mount a proper defence. In the event, funds were mercifully not needed for this purpose but I was helped with hotel and travel costs for a trial that was held in Wales, hundreds of miles from where I live. Supporters also kindly sponsored my attendance at a classics conference at Edinburgh University in April and the Battle of Ideas debate forum at the Barbican, London, in November, staged by the Institute of Ideas (IOI). The former enabled me to hone up my knowledge of the sexual mores of Ancient Greece, which should come in handy very soon as I hope to be blogging on this theme shortly. The fruits of the IOI event were harvested much more immediately: as regular heretics here will have seen, a good deal of the information and inspiration for my mental health three-parter had its origins in this event.
There was another truly existential threat, too, one that has since receded but not entirely disappeared. In November last year, on the occasion of Heretic TOC’s third anniversary, I blogged under the title “Extremists plot to disrupt ‘distressing’ dissent”, which reported that the UK government was proposing to tackle terrorism by cracking down on the expression of “extremist” views. Depending on how “extremism” was to be defined, this sounded to me like a potentially very serious threat to free speech which could be used to suppress almost any views at odds with mainstream thinking, no matter how non-violent their expression might be. As Simon Calvert, director of Defend Free Speech, said:

Defend Free Speech believes innocent people will fall foul of this unnecessary and dangerous piece of legislation. It will criminalise those who hold unpopular, unfashionable or challenging views. This could include pro- and anti-religious groups, trade unionists, environmental and animal rights activists, critics of UK foreign policy and people campaigning for LGBT rights.

And a blog like this.
Well, a lot of water has flowed under the political bridge since then, and with so much happening on the Brexit front, the government has made little visible progress on countering “extremist” views. Theresa May’s new government revived the plan for legislation but an agreed definition of extremism has yet to emerge, and no parliamentary bill has so far been tabled. But in the wake of the Berlin street market attack and a succession, so we are told, of thwarted plots in the UK, May’s government is understandably loath to let go. So, yet again, it all seems to be a matter of wait and see. For recent parliamentary scrutiny see here and here.
The third anniversary blog would have been followed by a fourth last month but I had started my mental health three-parter by then and did not want to interrupt it. So today’s blog has ended up being a sort of late anniversary thing combined with a half-arsed end-of-year 2016 review. Messy, but there we are.
In terms of statistics, the present blog is the 195th in a little over four years since Heretic TOC’s launch. By Christmas Day there had been 8057 published comments, which works out at over 40 comments per blog – a very high figure, especially when taking into account that in the early days I was bringing out a new blog every day. The blogs were typically much shorter then but I nevertheless find myself astonished I could find the time.  As for the number of page hits, on Christmas Day they stood at 121, 915 for the year so far, already exceeding the previous highest total for a full year, which was 2015’s figure, 115,904.
Most visitors to the site in 2016 came from UK and US (fairly equally), followed by (in order) Russia, France, Spain, Germany and the Netherlands; then the next Anglophone country, Australia; then Hungary, Denmark, Canada and Belgium. However, I am told that these particular stats are not very meaningful because some readers will be mailing through proxy servers that bear no relation to where the reader is based. That’s a great shame. Until I heard this, I had been delighted to see that Heretic TOC apparently has readers in such exotic places as  Mongolia, Greenland, Madagascar, Papua New Guinea and many others! Oh, well, one can dream!
Looking forward, what can heretics expect from this site in 2017? As already indicated, I expect to be blogging on Ancient Greece quite soon, and I said a few weeks ago that the transgender theme is high on my list. Beyond that, I have a whole heap of topics lined up, and so do several guest bloggers. Don’t be deterred, though, if you haven’t tried guest blogging before and are wondering whether you should have a go: I am always interested in fresh thoughts from new people.
The only limitations on Heretic TOC’s activities, apart from the still distant threat of curbs on free speech, are a shortage of time and money. As I have mentioned on other occasions, I would love to be spending time on writing books, and articles for academic publications, in addition to time spent on the blog. Right now, though, it just ain’t happening. Probably that is because I am not getting any younger. I still have immense enthusiasm for writing and research, but not the energy to produce at speed. Even just keeping up with an ever rising torrent of relevant new books, research papers, articles, TV documentaries and video presentations has become a full-time job in itself.
The demands made by the core task have become such that even simple maintenance issues can seem tough. For instance, with substantial help from reader “Ronnie”, I was able to make great strides in summarising previous Heretic TOC blogs with a view to more effective searching of the whole corpus of work and to select particular pieces (plus a limited  selection of the best reader comments) for inclusion in a Best of Heretic TOC book, with an e-book edition. Yet I was unable, in the whole of 2016, to complete the summaries or make the selection. Never mind, I hope to get there in the coming year.
Another neglected task is the Blogroll, where there are dead links, and live links to dead sites. If anyone knows of lively, relevant sites that really should be included, please let me know. Meanwhile, I hope I can find time in the next few days, before year’s end, to do a bit of weeding in this little digital flowerbed.
As for money, I don’t have much but you will probably be relieved to hear that Heretic TOC is able to soldier on without appealing for funds at the present time.
I’ll just give a moment for that to sink in. OK, so….
Must be half a mo by now.
Right, time up! Now that you’ve had time to enjoy a moment of relief in peace I will add that the coming year may see an appeal for funds, depending on how much progress is made towards certain tasks, and clarity over any financial commitments they might entail. We’ll see.
Now, in winding up, just a few words reviewing the wider year, beyond this blog. I’m not going to bang on about the horrors of Brexit and Trump, or Syria and the tragedy of the Middle East in general, or the looming perils of climate change, or the seemingly freakish number of celebrity deaths. I’m not even going to mention the appalling 13-year prison sentence imposed on a 101-year-old man in the UK, nor dwell upon how the hitherto strongly-held value of humane treatment of the elderly could be so deliberately and abruptly consigned to the trash can in this case with barely a whisper of protest.
No, I will remain silent on all of that but will just note, briefly, that this was a year in which, like the trashed old geezer in jail, I have arguably been demoted to a lower status. Nothing so obvious or terrible as imprisonment, mercifully. More a sort of gentle passing on downwards towards Boring Old Fart rather than (as I would prefer, obviously!) elevation to Elder Statesman of Kind advocacy.
Why do I say so? I guess it’s the Brexit and Trump thing, mainly. My horrified reaction to these phenomena seems not to be shared by some here, perhaps those of a younger generation. So maybe from now on my opinions will come to seem more and more embarrassingly out of touch as time goes by. I suppose my views might change. I might catch up. Or I might not. Either way, younger heretics will have to decide for themselves whether Heretic TOC continues to be worth reading. I hope so, of course. Again, we’ll see!
Happy New Year!
 
UNSENT LETTERS
Bruce Muirhead, or “B.J. Muirhead” as he publicly presents his name, is a writer and photographer whose thoughtful comments have graced Heretic TOC this year. See for instance what he says here about the ideas of biochemist and controversial parapsychologist Rupert Sheldrake. In another comment accessible from the same link he had occasion to mention Unsent Letters, his own novel.
Among other things, he said the book “is based on many stories told to me, although I did, of course, also draw on my experiences with my first wife – and on my knowledge of girls around 13, resulting from talking to my children’s friends when they were visiting. Interestingly, my second wife attempted to use the first draft to prove that I am a ‘paedophile’ and therefore an unsafe parent for my children.”
Intrigued, I bought a copy of the paperback, although it was the best part of three months later before I got around it reading it, by which time, I confess, I had quite forgotten Bruce’s introductory words, so came to the book with no conscious preconceptions. I was impressed, and decided to review it. A short version of the review appears at the publisher’s website, both for the paperback and the e-book. I gave Unsent Letters a maximum five-star rating on quality grounds but, as I said in the review, that does not mean it is something everyone will want to read, or even every heretic.
By reading my concise review, though, you should be able to get a good idea as to whether this is going to be your cup of tea or not. A fuller version of the review has been posted on a website called  In A Foreign Town, which features Bruce’s poetry and fiction. He also has another website for his photography.
I might just mention a few more biographical details taken from the “About” notes Bruce has posted online:

Earlier in my life I studied philosophy and creative writing at various universities, published a very small amount of poetry, an awful lot of photography criticism in the Courier-Mail newspaper and a few other places, and held a few exhibitions of drawings and paintings, before turning into a full time parent and hiding away for about 12 years.
My aim here, just so you know, is to publish random thoughts, ideas and images and perhaps get some feedback …

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[…] be doing has been long neglected and I feel I really must give myself a chance to catch up. In “Heretic TOC gets its mojo back” late last year, I was honestly able to report that the blog seemed to be going very well after a […]

feinmann0

And another latecomer to the lunatic fringe ball …
“Proposed law would bar adults unaccompanied by children from playgrounds in city parks, which a city councilman said would protect kids from ‘creepy activity’. A proposed law banning lone adults from Los Angeles playgrounds has triggered an outcry from critics who say it would stigmatize single people as pedophiles. Mitch O’Farrell, a city councilman, suggested the ban last month as a way to protect children from ‘creepy activity’. He cited drug dealing and other “disturbing behavior” in or near playgrounds. The law would bar adults unaccompanied by children from entering the playgrounds which dot parks around the city. The council is due to debate the proposal in coming weeks.” theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/02/los-angeles-childless-adults-playground-ban-proposal
LSM I know, has something to say on the topic of being creepy here: consentinghumans.wordpress.com/2015/09/05/on-being-creepy/

feinmann0

It certainly makes a change to see a lead boot on the other foot: non-paedophile adults being discriminated against by the authorities because they pose a risk to kids. Like all inquisitions, you know when the frenzy has reached its climax simply because absolutely no-one is immune from accusation. The real casualty in all of this is society itself.

stephen6000

REPLY TO PEACE ON SEX WORKERS (placed here to avoid thinning effect)
Peace, this is kind of annoying. You’ve done this before – though on a different board, as it happens. You made a very controversial statement and then when challenged, you said you’re not really interested in continuing the conversation! I let it go last time it happened but feel I need to say something about it this time. If you make controversial statements you should be prepared to defend them. In this case, you did, it is true, offer a little further defence, but then you rather rudely gave yourself the last word by saying that you weren’t interested in talking about it any further and setting me some extra reading to do!
Your original statement was very strong. You said (my emphasis):
‘why do many men seem to “need” sex enough to pay for it and THEREFORE treat sex workers not as human beings but instead just as objects[?]’
Your use of the word ‘therefore’ implies that the one thing inevitably follows from the other. But it doesn’t. If I pay a barber to cut my hair, it scarcely follows that I am ‘treating him as an object’. I agree that sex workers are OFTEN disrespected by their clients. It doesn’t mean that it’s inevitable that they will be.

Peace

Continuing a conversation when it’s very obvious that the other side disagrees with my main premise and therefore all of my arguments is a waste of everyone’s time, wouldn’t you agree? Both of the sites I have linked to in my comments contain more information about sex work, if you wish to learn more.
My main point here is that when you pay somebody to, say, cut your hair or mow your law, you are paying them for their services and only their services, without being able to push them past their limits. When you pay sex workers, you are paying for their body. Sex work and non-sex work are two completely different fields of work and cannot be reasonably compared like that. In addition, treating somebody like an object doesn’t have to seem disrespectful to the client in question and they are often disrespectful in ways they don’t see as necessarily “disrespectful.”

A.

Oh, I don’t know…in a lot of cases paying somebody to do a job for you boils down to paying them to do permanent damage, over time, to their body, especially in this day and age of weakening protections for workers. In theory, they can negotiate their limits; in practice, maybe they can’t. Sex workers can and do negotiate limits — we’re going to use a condom, no you may not touch my hair, I spent ages doing it and my time is money — and my understanding is that decriminalisation tends to help them to do this. And anyone who’s ever worked customer service knows that it often involves being paid to smile and be super nice to people who are often horrible to you, which can be pretty degrading and rage-making.
It’s not uncommon for strippers to say that they feel they have all the power in the interaction and are manipulating the men they dance for.
I told a friend off once for saying that the sex worker he’d seen to lose his virginity when he was twenty and couldn’t get laid was selling her body. She isn’t selling it, I said: she still has it afterwards! Just a form of words, I know, but it matters.
I liked this article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/23/prostitution-sex-trade-demand-myth

Peace

When people do non-sexual work for pay, there’s often benefits such as insurance, worker’s comp, etc. which sex workers don’t get. You can’t put “sex worker” down on your taxes, you’re not gonna get worker’s comp if your job lands you an STD, and stigmatization of the field makes it difficult to deal with police and doctors if an incident occurs. Decriminalization underneath the Swedish model also has problems in terms of the fact that places such as brothels probably won’t exist (you don’t wanna go somewhere where the police can just roll up and arrest everybody who isn’t an employee), which means workers will lost out on the advantages a brothel setup might bring such as pooling resources, collective representation, and safety because there can be dedicated security there at all times. In addition, since decriminalization would probably dissuade the “ideal” safe client, you then get the more dangerous people or people will head straight for trafficked people. This is why decriminalization of both worker and client has been brought up as a safer alternative.
Do I think sex work is “sexual enslavement”? No. But I think the current way in which sex work is done could be a lot better. Nobody in the world loves their job every day, and of course you can compare the benefits of sex work to regular work, but I don’t think it’s a 1-to-1 match-up. A lot of sex work is done because the person in question cannot get a job that’s not in the sex industry. There are people who are happy and feel humanized in their sex work, but there’s also people who feel trapped and dehumanized, and policies need to positively affect both of these people. In addition, the fact that people feel like they “need” sex runs through both genders – women paying male sex workers are very likely objectifying these men. Treating somebody as a instrument of sexual pleasure and a commodity and not as a whole human being isn’t cool, no matter the gender.

A.

Hard to disagree with any of this!
Maybe it would be a better world if you could put ‘sex worker’ down on your taxes.

bjmuirhead

Over the years, especially during my twenties and thirties, I knew quite a few prostitutes, mostly through a friend who was a prostitute, back before it was legal where I live. As a young man I used to take a position similar to yours, until I listened to them.
One chose prostitution to achieve a particular financial goal, and by the time I met her, she had a list of properties, residential and commercial, that she rented, and an equally large amount of money. At least one was in it to maintain her drug habit (which she eventually gave up). But not one of the six or so whom I knew felt bad about their work, or felt that they were generally disrespected, although each of them had bad clients at one time or another.
Perhaps it was unique to the brothel where most of them worked, but they were able to reject a client (bad clients forced on you = no workers at your brothel) and those who worked by themselves were very careful.
We’ve all heard horror stories about prostitutes and their clients, but hearing a lot of amusing and downright absurd stories from workers in the field took a lot of my moral views (and destroyed the pedestal totally).
Lastly, and because it seems quite important to me, several of the women I knew had physically disabled clients who were very grateful that they could pay for someone to have sex with them, when it was almost impossible in the world of dating.
I guess what I’m saying is that respect is a matter of behaviour, not an entirely abstract thing where you or I can say that someone is disrespected. The abstract and the experience need to come together, and one person’s disrespect may well be another person’s irrelevance.

Peace

As I stated in another comment, there are both happy and unhappy people in all professions. This is usually for a number of reasons, usually uncontrollable forces such as race, gender, family circumstances, etc. This is why you can see both the “happy hooker” stereotype as well as the “poor person who only got into it for the money” stereotype. I want to help the part of the industry that regularly is dehumanized in various ways by clients and society, and I also want to ask people to think about WHY the sex work industry is needed in the first place.

bjmuirhead

I don’t know where you live, but in many ways, I suspect it is a little better in some parts of Australia, namely those parts where it is legal, e.g., I once knew a brothel owner in Cairns. His sex workers received a wage as well as a percentage of the fee the punter paid. All medical services, condoms, etc, were paid by the brothel owner, and the rest area for the workers, where they took regular breaks, was magnificent. They had a variety of protections, including male staff, panic buttons, and training on how to recognise the external signs of venereal disease.
I also want to ask people to think about WHY the sex work industry is needed in the first place.
This is, perhaps, a more important question, but there are, perhaps, as many answers as there are prostitutes and their customers.
I was going to add to that, but instead, I think I’ll end by saying that the moral point of view you espouse, or seem to espouse, has many adherents. I am not one of them. ‘Nuff said.

stephen6000

Very well put. I entirely agree.

Libertine

Agreed!

stephen6000

‘Continuing a conversation when it’s very obvious that the other side disagrees with my main premise and therefore all of my arguments is a waste of everyone’s time, wouldn’t you agree?’
No, I wouldn’t, because you should be prepared to reconsider your main premise in the light of opposing arguments (as should I mine).
But in fact the situation here is not really like that, since, in point of fact, your earlier response reveals that you actually don’t disagree with me that much. You talk about how it is ‘likely’ that men using the services of sex workers will not value them for their personalities and the fact that ‘Women in sex work TEND to be objectified a lot MORE than women who aren’t in sex work’ and, again, that ‘MANY men looking at sex workers are not seeing them as full human beings’ (my emphasis in each case). So you used just the sort of qualifying words I wanted you to use. It may be, then, that we don;t actually disagree that much, but your earlier, less cautious, way of expressing yourself reflects your ideological bias.

Explorer

Tom, I just found that Newgon didn’t disappear at all – it just changed its name from “newgon.com” to “newgon.net”! So, there is no need to give links to its pontentially changed and re-edited copy from ChildWiki; you can just restore your old blogroll link with the new address. Here are links to Newgon, NewgonWiki, Newgon Blog and Newgon Resource Directory, respectively:
https://www.newgon.net/
https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Main_Page
https://www.newgon.net/blog/
https://www.newgon.net/prd/

Elron

Sugarboy:
“So, if the customer needs it and the woman does it voluntarily, I can’t see anything wrong with it, even though this is undoubtedly not an ideal situation.”
If a moral relativist makes a clever argument and asks ‘who is to say what is wrong and what is right?” it is best to keep the rules hidden from such people so punishment hits them by surprise.
Allowing anything remotely liberal, whether it is lewd dancing, political correct speech, or crude leftist cartoons, or any form of intimate touching without love, signals to observers that there is no consequence to disrespectful and morally inferior behaviour, which in turn contributes to a growing atmosphere of disrespect, inviting all manner of other disrespectful goings on. Before you know it democracy has established itself and hedonists make all the decisions, reducing the quality of life to a state of perpetual dishonour, so that life is not worth living.
The only time disrespect should be allowed to continue is during a short justification process, like a hidden trial, whereby the wrongdoer is left to dig his own grave. Preventative measures including physical disincentives signal to observers that there are serious consequences to disrespect and non-physical forms of violence.
I should add that if girllovers wish to help young girls break free from prostitution and drugs, they should be prepared to face resistance from the victim herself, perhaps lethal violence from the pimp and the dealers and corrupt police officers who will attempt to frame you and send you to prison. Remember, nothing threatens the power structure of the occupation government so much as genuine compassion and a moral conscience.

eqwjqe

Stay strong T.O.C.
CL for life
FREEDOM OR DEATH

feinmann0

Whilst waiting for Dissident to be tempted to answer my question below, I thought I would sound readers out to something that had escaped my attention. My apologies if it was previously discussed on Heretic TOC.
Senate Bill 1322 was signed into law by Gov. Jerry Brown on September 26, 2016. The law decriminalises children and teens – no age limit – who engage in prostitution. So any child under the age of 18, can legally sell their bodies for sex under California law without fear of arrest or prosecution.
The Washington Examiner sees it this way: “This terribly destructive legislation was written and passed by the progressive Democrats who control California’s state government with a two-thirds ‘supermajority.’ To their credit, they are sincere in their belief that decriminalizing underage prostitution is good public policy that will help victims of sex trafficking. Unfortunately, the reality is that the legalization of underage prostitution suffers from the fatal defect endemic to progressive-left policy-making: it ignores experience, common sense and most of all human nature – especially its darker side.
The unintended but predictable consequence of how the real villains – pimps and other traffickers in human misery – will respond to this new law isn’t difficult to foresee. Pimping and pandering will still be against the law whether it involves running adult women or young girls. But legalizing child prostitution will only incentivize the increased exploitation of underage girls. Immunity from arrest means law enforcement can’t interfere with minors engaging in prostitution – which translates into bigger and better cash flow for the pimps. Simply put, more time on the street and less time in jail means more money for pimps, and more victims for them to exploit.”
My view is that it is a small but significant initial step towards combatting State-sponsored abuse of its young, in this case, the persecution of children who have committed sexual ‘offences’.

Order

But is it only legal for the minor or also for the guy that hires the services?

Libertine

Fuck No! it seems to be the same as in Sweden: Selling sex in not illegal, Only buying it is….and of course, its the men that are on the receiving end of mostly feminist legislation.

Peace

Maybe men are on the receiving end because a large amount of them commodify women? Male sex workers exist, but at far less frequency than female sex workers, which perhaps says something about the way that men view women and how they view sex.
Speaking as a feminist, there are indeed problems with the Swedish system of decriminalization, mostly because it doesn’t do anything to address problems concerning safety, police relations, etc. Complete decriminalization for both workers and clients has been suggested as a safer alternative, but has not been implemented anywhere and still does nothing to take care of prejudices against sex workers that often stop them from getting help (you can check out a good overview of this discussion here: https://genderate.wordpress.com/2016/02/21/why-the-nordic-model-sucks/). Of course, the problem with comparing such systems with the one implemented in California is that the sexual exploitation of adults and of children differs greatly and so research done into the Swedish system may not match up 1-to-1 with the reality of California. Hopefully police will look into the effects of the legislation and find a way to keep everyone safe.

Libertine

“which perhaps says something about the way that men view women and how they view sex”
For me, its not about ‘how I view women’, I just need physical sex once in a while; The feel of real flesh as apposed to what you cannot touch on a screen.

Peace

My comment on how a lot of men seem to see women wasn’t exactly directed toward anyone, but I guess your comment can bring about another point: why do many men seem to “need” sex enough to pay for it and therefore treat sex workers not as human beings but instead just as objects through which to fulfill their desires? Sex work is one of those areas of work with lots of problems, not least of all the reason it exists in the first place, but I guess that’s a conversation for a different place.

stephen6000

‘…why do many men seem to “need” sex enough to pay for it and therefore treat sex workers not as human beings but instead just as objects’
That’s a non-sequitur. The one doesn’t follow from the other.

Peace

If a man “needs” sex, then it’s likely he’s not paying a sex worker for her personality; he’s paying her for her body and to use or look at her body as he pleases. Women in sex work tend to be objectified a lot more than women who aren’t in sex work, so it’s not a stretch to say that many men looking at sex workers are not seeing them as full human beings. Anyway, this conversation has little to do with the original topic, so I’m not really interested in continuing it. If you want more information about the effects of sex work, I’d recommend checking out the Sex Workers Project (http://sexworkersproject.org/).

Sugarboy

Peace, this objectification does exist in all kinds of employment relationships: the boss needs your performance, and you need the salary (you did not take the job because you like the boss). One of my friends, who from time to time paid visit to massage parlours, once got a crush on a prostitute from Spain who worked there and asked her to marry him. She answered that she already had a boyfriend and had made him believe that she came to our country in the summer in order to work as a baby sitter. So, if the customer needs it and the woman does it voluntarily, I can’t see anything wrong with it, even though this is undoubtedly not an ideal situation.

bjmuirhead

I have to agree with you about that, Libertine.

A.

Thanks, didn’t know this. Encouraging news.

bjmuirhead

If only they had decriminalised consensual sex between minors who were not selling their bodies. Now, that would be something.

feinmann0

A topic that I touched on in the two blogs I (and A) put together last year was the poisonous lies spread by the sexual abuse industry concerning the magnitude of child sexual abuse. The magnitude of the problem of underage child prostitution quoted by the usual suspects appears to have suffered a very similar distortion, at least in the US. The following from NAASCA:
“There, feminists, religious zealots, the well-intentioned, law enforcement, and social-service bureaucrats pilloried the online classified” ads “business for peddling ‘100,000 to 300,000’ underage prostitutes annually. Those same numbers had already inspired terrified politicians, who let loose hundreds of millions of dollars in the past decade to prohibitionists bent on ending the world’s oldest profession.
Village Voice Media recently spent two months researching the truth behind underage sex trafficking. We looked at law enforcement data, first examining the arrests for juvenile prostitution in the nation’s 37 largest cities over a decade. To the extent that underage prostitution exists, it primarily exists in those large cities; however, police records show that there were only 8,263 arrests across America for child prostitution during the most recent decade. That’s 827 arrests per year.”

Explorer

Tom, here is another suggestion for your blogroll list – ChildWiki, a Wikipedia-style free encyclopedia written from “child liberation” perspective. it contains a lot of material concerning children’s rights and liberties, including sexual ones. Its authors are friendly to intergenerational sexuality:
http://childwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
And – most importantly – it hosts a full copy of NewgonWiki, which I considered to be lost (can you imagine what a pleasant surprise was to found it again!):
http://childwiki.org/wiki/Category:Official_Encyclopedia
So, Tom, even if you’ll decide that ChildWiki as such is not a suitable blogroll candidate, you will probably still re-post a blogroll link to a NewgonWiki, now in a “reborn” state. Or, if you’ll accept ChildWiki in general as a blogroll list participant, you may provide two separate links: one to ChildWiki itself and another to a new NewgonWiki.
P.S. I want to add, however, that there is no guarantee that the NewgonWiki content remained exactly the same as it once was: it is, apparently, as free for re-editing by ChildWiki authors as the rest of encyclopedia.

Explorer

Some additional thoughts about ChildWiki: it, with all its benefits, defends some ideas that a bit… eh… too wild and harsh even for an anarchist like me! For example, take idea that kids should be allowed to consume as much alchogol as they want, and “natural selection” should be let to work in an unrestrained fashion by allowing a few juvenile drinkers to destroy themselves and die young before they can procreate:
http://childwiki.org/wiki/Right_to_possess_and_consume_alcohol
Such reckless and ruthless “Social Darwinist” ideas are NOT what I want to be actualised in society! So, Tom, be wise in deciding whether to put ChildWiki in your blogroll or not… Now, after reading some of its articles, I’m not that enthusiastic.
Yet, NewgonWiki still may be put in a blogroll, even if without general ChildWiki link…

Christian

Even weirder: children’s right to own weapons:
http://childwiki.org/wiki/Gun_ownership_rights
However I found many interesting things in this Wiki, in particular 3 essays by Dissident.

Libertine

Funny you should mention that ‘Christian’, I owned a shotgun at fourteen.
People often use the fact that kids are not permitted to smoke and drink etc to argue against intergenerational sex, as I’m sure you and other readers are wee aware.

Christian

I never owned a weapon, but at 14 I got drunk from cheap wine in a bar in Corsica; wine had few taxes there, and young people were allowed to drink.

Order

I just saw a discussion of people talking about pokemon nostalgia saying things like “childhood nostalgia? that having 12 years does not make you adult” that is the typical of an ignorant, another who is a poor boy or girl alienated by society saying “I am teen not adult” but the worst is one that said this insanity: “childhood for me is basically 7-19” child until 19!!!???
These people are crazy, clinically this is a collective psychosis, they are crazy a sane being can not believe these things, psychology has killed the heads of these people
Since puberty you are adult, if you feel a child or “teen” or “adolescent” you are a mentally ill I am sorry, I like adults, I was an adult since I hav 13, I enough of this absurdity
some truth: The world will never accept that a kid can consent, kids are kids and can not be with adults, but only to play and study and be with kids of their age, you do not lie youself, we can only get adults but as long as they are biologically as I say not at 18 or 19 as say these “normie” freaks sorry all

Libertine

Just thought I’d share this, For those that haven’t seen it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPtEWA2BzZQ

Explorer

A quick thought for a new blogroll candidate: BJ Muirhead’s blog (which you have already mentioned in your post). It contains not only photography, but also a lot of high-quality articles concerning intergenrational sexuality, such as these…
https://bjmuirhead.wordpress.com/2016/10/09/childhood-sexual-rights/
https://bjmuirhead.wordpress.com/2016/09/14/informed-consent-and-children/
https://bjmuirhead.wordpress.com/2016/03/01/nakedness-of-children-the-text/
https://bjmuirhead.wordpress.com/2015/05/13/who-is-looking/
…as well as some articles about problems of (meta-)ethics:
https://bjmuirhead.wordpress.com/2016/04/06/bread-and-circuses/
https://bjmuirhead.wordpress.com/2016/03/31/advances-in-morality/
In my opinion, BJ is a wonderful candidate for a your blogroll. Do you agree?

bjmuirhead

Explorer, I am a little astounded that you would suggest this, so much so that I haven’t known what to say, except that I am happy you have enjoyed reading my work. In fact, I went back and re-read some of the posts you linked here; I was a little disappointed by some, and though “I must revise .”
Mind you, I will be happy to be in the blogroll should Tom decide to put me there.
I guess I had better get to work and put some more essays/thoughts up there.

Explorer

Don’t be too humble, BJ – your work is of high quality! And your somewhat anxious attitude to it, and desire to revise many of the stuff you have written, it quite common for me, too… yet, when my writing is being praised by notably intelligent and knowledable people, I’m again reminded that my texts are better accepted by others than by myself! 😉

bjmuirhead

Thanks Explorer, the compliment is appreciated. But, believe me, I only worry about work which hasn’t been well written, or thoroughly enough researched; though I am now convinced that research is less important than thinking. (I have to think that because I have neither the energy nor the money to keep up with it—not all research can be freely obtained, after all.

Dissident

A belated congrats to you for another year of Heretic TOC, Tom! I’m sure you know that I feel much as Christian, Lensman, A, and other regular commentators/contributors do: Heretic TOC is not losing its relevance, and you are not “out of touch” for your views. There are certain aspects of social justice that never go out of style, and let’s not forget that you’re of an era that once took these matters far more seriously than the post-1970s world which younger readers and participants grew up in. They are used to seeing the Left in its weakest form, rather than its full fighting power during the Civil Rights era; hysteria and moral panic as a norm, rather than a climate with a more nuanced and sensible approach to compare it to; and an era where kids have all but vanished from public sight, rather than a world where they played freely and interacted zealously with the world outside their doors.
There are certain things from the past that deserve to be forever placed in the dustbin of history, of course, but there are other things left behind that seriously need to be recovered, brushed off, and given a far better lease on life. It’s very important that “old farts” (I always hated that term!) like you have a notion of a world that could be different and much better than the world we now live in. You know the possibility of beneficial change is real, not merely “pie in the sky” or fanciful theory as so many younger intellectuals are conditioned to believe. The same thing is evident with Christian and Lensmen on their own blogs. It’s not only the Kind community that needs you more than ever, but I make no exaggeration when I say the entire world does, as well… whether they currently know it or not.

bjmuirhead

That is an incredibly interesting show, which I will have to listen to again as I was disturbed several times while listening.
It leaves us question begging as to how any of us are to tell a story about our beliefs which will, at least, begin altering the views of those opposed to our views. To some small extent you seem to have achieved something like thiswith your work, especially if we are to believe Bailey’s review of Dangerous Liasons (Here, for those who do not know it: http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/articles/MJOCarrollReview.pdf
But very few people are willing to populate their conceptual space (the style and content of their thinking) with ideas which do not naturally belong in that space.
In a personal sense the question is: would I have believed children possess a sexuality and are willing to explore it, if I had not done so as a child? Or if I didn’t remember my experiences? Or if I chose to deny them because I’ve been told children don’t experience sexual pleasure? (Or some other variation of that.) We all, I believe, have questions such as this, which we need to explore. Obviously, most people are unwilling to make that change, i.e., to admit something which does not naturally belong into their thinking and beliefs.
Needless to say, I am not outstandingly different in this regard, and have areas of great blindness in my own life.
So, again, how do we tell a story that can enter opposing spaces and perhaps change them? This is an answer I really would like to have, not least because of my views on sex/uality; it would be of great use with other issues also.
Having ranted a little, thanks for your review Tom, and for mentioning it here. I am well pleased, even if I don’t quite agree with all that you say.

DSM

Oft noted, earlier and elsewhere in ‘other spaces’ yet for some illogical reason still ignored on logical KindPed HOT blogs disrespectfully tabloid tagged ‘NonceHubs’.
The only viable and obvious BIG FREE space to take on, attack and trash, or Christ-like ‘convert’, the antis is the peoples’ free-for-all forum YouTube.
Where no nonce is blocked or banned unless proactively inciting CRIME. (Tho YT’s typical Anglo admin HYPOCRITES self-justifying in denial often ignore blatant HATE CRIME and racist or religious incitements while banning some candid pro-Peds merely suggesting a Global equal-AOC of say, 13.)
Yet, YT’s BIG battlefields, bar-rooms, back alleys, and bearpits are the Shakeyesque ‘breaches’, where ‘Bish Bash Bosh’ tabloid Trumpf-like streetfighting pro Peds WIN!
E.G. recently on YT (tags disguised).
Anti: “Give me just one night in a cell with one of these pedo Kray creeps.”
Anti-anti Tina: “If u were alone in a cell with Golden Boy lover Ronnie Kray, he’d rip yer head off and shit down Ur neck for breakfast!”
Pro-ped: “Awesome Tina.”
Not pretty, not strictly logical Capn, but no further response from any Antis in the only language that totalitarian tabloid mass mind raped antis understand.
Further ‘winning’ samples to follow for followers of YT the free-for-all peoples’ forum. Where millions of ant-like antis can run but never hide from pro-ped logical FACTS dispensed in totalitarian tabloid SUNspeak – ‘Bish Bash Bosh’ the only language they truly understand.
So, sharpen yer spear-like smears, sign up, pile in, jump on, join the anti-trashing fun from which they can never recover – just psychoLOGICALLY progress.
Quote High Anglo scribe Shakey, “Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more..summon up the sinews, imitate the action of the tiger!”

Libertine

“legal videos have fallen foul of objection”
Or what about me; My comments are still around, But first I was banned on YT, Then from Google, Yet nothing illegal, all the videos shared were from YT itself. I think I got removed be a dedicated pedofinder gang who go around reporting anything remotely paedophilic.

Christian

A few years ago, I heard from Iranian political opponents that some of their videos showing unrest in Iran had been deleted from YouTube under the pretext of “copyright violation”. They suspected that it was agents of the Iranian dictatorship who complained of “copyright violation”.

bjmuirhead

What can I say?
Firstly, I suppose, I’m sorry you got lumped with the books; but I also am happy to know that I will be buying it from you when I get around to having the spare cash. (Christmas, kids, and all that.)
In respect of the problem of how to get people to change their mind… The difficulty is that it is not facts which matter. It is the story in which the facts are embedded which matters. Hence, academics can tell the truth, sometimes, but run the risk of losing their jobs, etc., because the dominant cultural narrative doesn’t want to know those facts. So I guess my real question is:How does one infiltrate the dominant narrative and present the facts in a fashion which will be acceptable. Clearly, your work has not been acceptable, but nor was it presented as a part of the dominant narrative.
As absurd as it sounds, I believe that there has to be an answer to this, but perhaps what it requires is for children to talk up about their sexuality… but I have no idea how this would be possible, or if it is possible. Pages like http://consentingjuveniles.com/ may be the beginning of such an answer, but this may be mere optimism on my part.

bjmuirhead

Now that is an offer I cant refuse. I’ll be in touch for the details and with my details… and thank you!

Elron

Dissident: I have been in the WN camp,
thanks to heretic toc i really woke up and saw how dumb so called white nationalists are
They actually wasting 90% of their resources drawing mohammad fucking a prepubescent girl or whining about how Muslims treat fags and how Nazis don’t like pedophilia?
Lefties probably say paedophilia:the radical case and mein kampf are the same but according to WN and paedophobes like girls must be “white genocide”
well read the gay history and make your own mind
for example when kinds call lgbters for apes and pigs, they are right
i must be honest and say it took me a bit time before I changed my mind and agreed on the things heretic toc says.. i agree with heretics in almost everything .. except the part about homosexuality and gender roles
Occident has been in constant war for four decades, with endless tragedies in infinitely many families in infinitely many years. Of which the most arduous wars were lay down on the kinds by the Western countries. This latest Russia, followed by the United States.
Both of which used Paedophilia as a political playground.
The consequence is severe damage to the naturalness on the population. Ability to respect the other have been harmed. Both the adult and the child. Where then is the child as the nearest and weakest who easily is the victim in the end. When child rights organizations from the Western world will come rushing in with their cry for children’s protection and the like …. Should they direct their accusations against their own governments shown cynicism in relation to the Kind people …!

feinmann0

Hey Dissident, I was surprised you had nothing to say on the topic of child pornography in the previous blog. I recall you had quite a lot to say about the subject back in 2011 here: https://cpexplosion.wordpress.com/2011/01/26/should-cp-continue-to-be-illegal/#more-161, if indeed it was you. I would be interested to hear your thoughts six years on.

DSM

New Year Honours!
Arise, Sir ToC of Heretic!
Soon to be gonged Lord ToC of KindPeds!
Bonus, ‘Guilty’ plea from Adulto-GROOMED KindPed, “Your Honour. She offered her honour so I honoured her offer, and all night long I was on her and off her.”

Libertine

Congratulations, Tom, Just keep up the crusade!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhhDbaah9DQ

A.

Depends which young people you’re talking to I suppose…the ones I’ve spoken to seem pretty furious about Brexit and Trump, which I find encouraging.
Happy anniversary, and long may you continue writing!

Christian

The fact that you have political disagreements with younger readers does not mean a conflict of generation, hence your relegation to the status of “retired leader” on the ground of being “out of touch with modern reality.” You have to take account of two facts, a general one and a peculiar one.
First, generally people in any community—including heretics—hold diverse opinions on a variety of subjects, and it does not depend much on age. I can see that with my colleagues or my family. The only hypothesis that I would make is statistical: on average, more young people (<25yo) than older ones seem to have radical views (and "radical" can go in various directions).
Second, you are rather old, so statistically you will often be older than the people with whom you talk. This can lead to a false impression that the difference of opinion you notice correlates with age difference, even if opinions are in fact randomly distributed with respect to age.
HTOC remains important, by the quality and information contents not only of the posts (regular as well as invited), but also of comments.

leonard sisyphus mann

A late happy anniversary to HereticTOC.
I’d bought HereticTOC a bottle of bubbly and a big box of chocolates for its anniversary – but when there was no ‘birthday blog’ I was, with great regret, obliged to eat the chocolates and drink the champagne all by myself, before they, ahem, went off… 😉
>” I guess it’s the Brexit and Trump thing, mainly. My horrified reaction to these phenomena seems not to be shared by some here, perhaps those of a younger generation.”
Sam Harris’s latest podcast is a brilliant and chilling interview with the ex chess grandmaster Garry Kasparov.
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/the-putin-question

“In this episode of the Waking Up podcast, Sam Harris speaks with Garry Kasparov about the problem of waning American power, the rise of Putin, the coming presidency of Donald Trump, computer chess, the future of artificial intelligence, and other topics.”

He makes clear to what extent both Trump and Brexit, and their supporters, were manipulated by powerful disinformation campaigns on the part of Putin.
>“So maybe from now on my opinions will come to seem more and more embarrassingly out of touch as time goes by.”
Maybe today we need more ‘out of touch people’ than every before – now that identity politics, Russian disinformation, the ‘left’ defending dark-age superstitious barbarity, climate change denial – all fuelled by dishonest self-interest, manipulation and faith-based delusion – have created a world where the epithet ‘post-truth’ seems fitting.
If valuing evidence, truth, reason, humanity and the Enlightenment project makes one into an old Fart then (turn me gaseous and point me to the nearest arsehole!) – I’ll be as defiantly proud at being a fart as I am proud to be a paedophile.

DavHow

Well it certainly isn’t Tinkerbell !

DavHow

Hi Tom
Looking forward to your next posting especially as it centers on Ancient Greece, a subject close to my heart.
Happy New Year 🙂
David

DSM

Fer Anglo Witch-Hunted White Witch-Doc ToC.
Powerful magic spell, charm, or hex. ‘Mojo’, first known Caucasian use, 1926. Probably of African origin akin to Fulani moco’o medicine man.
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVu79MmZY9loAF24PxQt.;_ylc=X1MDMjExNDcwMDU1OQRfcgMyBGZyA3locy1pYmEtMQRncHJpZANZajRvTDVlalRNV3VVTzAxNzJlY3NBBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwM5BG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMwBHBxc3RyAwRwcXN0cmwDMARxc3RybAM0BHF1ZXJ5A21vam8EdF9zdG1wAzE0ODMxMjU0NjM-?p=mojo&fr2=sb-top&hspart=iba&hsimp=yhs-1&type=xdds_5338_CRW_BE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Got_My_Mojo_Working
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmjrTcYMqBM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP0crYPCHV0

Yohann

Happy New Year !
“Brexit and Trump … My horrified reaction to these phenomena seems not to be shared by some here, perhaps those of a younger generation. So maybe from now on my opinions will come to seem more and more embarrassingly out of touch as time goes by.”
I’d just like to clarify this.
Concerning Trump, feminism, Serbia, and I assume Syria etc… I don’t think you’re out of touch at all. You certainly don’t deserve being called an “old fart”. Just the opposite. One may think that your position is entirely congruent with the dominant narrative of our time. Of course being opposed to this narrative on a certain point doesn’t mean you have to contradict everything, be an outcast, an all-out heretic. But it should certainly foster doubt on all the consensual topics you(perhaps) don’t know much about apart from what you read in the mainstream media.
In the name of doubt, it might be better not to express strong feelings on topics that cannot be discussed in depth here. Otherwise, I think your readers might be embarrassed by a “batch” of opinions some of them well argued in detail (even if they disagree) and others expressed in passing as if , by the magic of a kind bond, kind people couldn’t be expected to think differently – wouldn’t it be wicked ?
I will end up paying hommage to your open-mindedness and courage. It will make you bear with me after those few cheeky remarks…
PS I’m not young, high middle-aged.

stephen6000

Congratulations, Tom, on surviving another year!
On the 13-year sentence for the 103-year-old man. I suspect a lot of people would have thought it was a bit harsh until they saw the word ‘paedophile’ and read of ‘sexual assaults’ and so on. If only there was a way of ensuring accuracy in the media and a general recognition that just because something’s been said in court -even under oath – it doesn’t mean it’s true.

stephen6000

Just to clarify – though Tom probably knew what I meant – I was congratulating him on the fact that his blog had survived another year in a hostile environment – not on the fact that HE had survived another year!

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