Meet Shakespeare’s hot young boys

My old friend Mike Teare-Williams kindly gives us his second guest blog today, the first being his review last June of Stiff Upper Lip: Secrets, crimes and the schooling of a ruling class, by Alex Renton. Now he is not quite reviewing, exactly, but giving us a flavour of his own MA thesis on boy actors playing female roles in Shakespeare’s plays in the days when they were brand new – hot off the bard’s dripping quill, as it were – and some of the comedies were as torrid as my lurid imagery suggests, full of bawdy gags and seductive acting by barely teenage boys with still unbroken voices: got up in drag they would “come on” to the adult actors in the male parts. Mike’s thesis on these improbable (to the modern mind) provocations has recently been added to Edmund Marlowe’s splendid website Greek Love Through the Ages. So, over to Mike.
 

AS YOU LIKE IT: A BAWDY, NOT BORING, BARD

Shakespeare, sigh — how boring — so many people say?  Long-winded and obscure?  Of course, English has changed over four hundred years and much of what is said upon the stage now flies straight over our heads.  Yet there is one aspect of Shakespeare’s drama that should be forever young and of primary interest to the people of now — to those especially who love young people.  In the playwright’s day, no women were allowed upon the stage, so Shakespeare’s brilliant heroines were played by boys, since only men and boys could then legally perform.
Historical and textual evidence is overwhelming that these boys had unbroken voices and were very young, in order not only to look feminine, but to sound feminine as well.  A case in point of the gulf between modern performances and the original tradition was played out the other day in my seeing a play-bill for a local performance of Romeo and Juliet.  A rather beautiful colourful photograph of the eponymous lovers appeared as an early adult woman and a fully-grown man.  This was not a surprise.  But this is Shakespeare radically re-written.  One could almost say, it is a travesty of the original drama.  In its original form, Romeo was a stripling youth.  Juliet, according to the text itself, in Act 1 Scene iii, in the words of her mother: “She’s not fourteen” and her Nurse: “On Lammas Eve at night she shall be fourteen”. Which makes the idea of even a late teen girl as Juliet absurd.  Much more to the point, this girl was played by a boy and was the subject of the most pointed sexual references and outright bawdry through several of the scenes that follow.
When you also consider that a thirteen-year-old, in the nexus between the sixteenth and the seventeenth centuries, was probably not as physically mature as a thirteen-year-old of now, you may question how such a young and small person could carry such a dramatic role.  We are left with the unavoidable conclusion that the boy of then was actually a much tougher and more mature individual, mentally, than his modern counterpart.  He might have been small, but he must have been a very considerable actor to have been given this role and his relative maturity would not have been in doubt.  Death was everywhere in the streets of London, with dismembered body-parts displayed in prominent places…  Our gentle child would have fought tooth and nail for his place to watch one of the frequent executions.  The bloodier, the better.
Now, established culture has it that to drop the f-word in a child’s presence is to deeply harm that child.  The words ‘attack’, ‘assault’, ‘abuse‘, ‘molest’ and ‘victim’ are used to describe situations and the passive resultants of those situations where no violence is, or ever was, present.  Fathers now no longer go near bathrooms where their own children bathe.  Men are deserting the teaching profession in droves.  Children now are treated like mindless nothings.  Tabula rasa – without intelligence, discernment, curiosity or even the capacity for love.  In all of these things they are deeply denigrated; made less than they truly are?
Very much at odds with these modern views: in the year 2000, I completed an MA thesis at the University of Western Australia.  It was entitled “Representing the Female Character in Three Comedies of William Shakespeare: As You Like It, Twelfth Night and A Midsummer Night’s Dream”.  A horribly long title for a horribly long and complex thesis.  The basis of the whole work was that no female actors were allowed to take the female parts in the drama of those days.
But why was the thesis so long and complex?  The simple truth is that I was under attack from the police and the justice-system and I was fighting to maintain my place as a graduate-student at my university for the entire time that I was researching my work.  Therefore, I had not only to lay out my own strong ideas about the boy actors who took the parts of the women in these plays, but I had constantly to reference and to justify my own beliefs with the evidence of other established scholars.  Surprisingly, essential aid came to me in the really excellent scholarship of a number of radical feminist authors.  Tirelessly – some might say exhaustively – I gave reference to their research, knowing that no-one with half a brain would dare to argue with them!
Needless to say, the journey to the eventual granting of my Master of Arts degree was part adventure, part nightmare; but it was a point of pride with me that I spent six months of my four and a half years of striving, while resident in prison.  So, it should also be pointed out that I was bravely supported throughout my huge endeavour; firstly, by my thesis-supervisor and secondly by the Academic Council of the University of Western Australia.  Brave people indeed, given the subject matter.
Throughout the eighteen years since, I have been taxing my brain on ways to turn this monstrous prolixity into a readable book.  Without any success!  So, what I have done is to prune as many of the tiresome repetitions as I could find and clear up anomalies along the way.  Then, I coined a new and much more honest title.  This being Shakespeare’s Boy Actors and Forbidden Discourse.
The reference to boy actors rather than the girls they represented is deliberate in establishing that Shakespeare in particular, and many other authors of his time, simply made the best of the situation of having to use boys as comedic girls and even sometimes as tragic heroines.  In the case of the former, they based most of the double-meaning jokes on the fact that the girl seen by audiences on the stage was actually a boy and everyone knew it.  Often – as in As You Like It and Twelfth Night – a girl character is required to dress up as a boy for part of the action.  So, in reality, you have a boy playing a girl who then plays a boy, who then reverts to playing a girl, but who then finally morphs into real boy again as the lights go down!
This androgyny in double-reversal, allows for some very pointed crudity.  Yet, at times, a more ethereal androgyne was proposed, characterised by sexual uncertainty of a Neoplatonic sort (see Chapter 2 for what I mean).  Touches of this philosophical aspect exist in A Midsummer Night’s Dream, but it is mainly the schism between the reality of a boy in the first Elizabeth’s reign and a boy of the second Elizabeth’s reign that I meant to highlight. Back then, a boy grew up quickly or he did not grow up at all.  Children who survived infancy and could walk and talk were set to work or were sent to school.  They were protected neither from the knowledge of sex – many of them grew up in one room with their parents – nor from experiencing it.  The point must finally be made that even the most ignorant person in Shakespeare’s age knew that these brilliant young actors were boys.
Most of us now will need Eric Partridge’s Shakespeare’s Bawdy: A Literary & Psychological Essay and a Comprehensive Glossary (London: Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1986 [1947]) simply to have any hope of understanding the crudeness of the bawdry that the characters fire off at bewildering speed throughout the texts that I study, among many others.  What was transparent in the lexis to Elizabethan and Jacobean audiences of four centuries ago is almost completely obscure to us now?
Hence my thesis, which is a decoding of the obscurities and, more to the point, an explanation of the second part of my title. That is to say: Forbidden Discourse.  Why is this discourse now forbidden?  Because it seeks to say that the boy of four centuries ago may not realistically be compared with the boy of now. Then, no boy with an unbroken voice – be he born high or low – was thought to have been harmed or ruined or abused by his taking part in comedic bawdry of the kind that was required by Shakespeare’s very young actors of then.  Though it is historically true that some of the boys went on acting female parts into young manhood; the major part of the evidence is overwhelming that the boy actors of the golden age of Shakespeare were truly boys, in both voice and appearance. Yet an essential part of the forbiddenness of this discourse is that, if you were to try and stage a performance of, particularly, As You Like It or Twelfth Night now – using boys with unbroken voices – the theatre would be closed, and the director would be arrested on the first night.  Yet this is only true if the audience were to understand the jokes!  Me, I think that there would be enough blue-noses in those audiences to close the performance down, were it to be done really well.
Tom O’Carroll asked me to write a guest-blog on my thesis and while this sounds most uncomfortably like blowing my own horn: blow it I will.  Simply because I am committed to the idea that most people in the modern world have no idea about the original tradition of Shakespearian drama.
I must record that, paradoxically, it was the outraged protests of the growing Puritan movement in that age which provided some of the best evidence for the separation of the modern boy from his Renaissance counterpart.  Tracts by such writers as William Prynne, Stephen Gosson and Phillip Stubbes inveighed in extreme terms against not only the action upon the stage, but the perceived immorality that occurred after the performances.  Stage-door Johnnies are not a new invention it would seem and the boys were evidently very popular for themselves, as well as their abilities as actors.  Deuteronomy 22:5 was clarion for the Puritans:

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment,  for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.

Cross-dressing in any form; indeed any pretension of a man, woman or child to appear to be something that he or she was not, was a grievous sin to the Puritans.  One such was Phillip Stubbes who fulminated dramatically in his The Anatomie of Abuses, F.J. Furnivall, ed. (London: New Shakespeare Society, 1877-1879 [London: Richard Jones, 1583]), pp. 144-145.

what smouching & slabbering one of another, what filthie groping and vncleane handling is not practised euery wher in these dauncings? … But, say they, it induceth looue—so I say also—but what looue?  Truely, lustful looue, a venerous looue, such as proceedeth from the stinking pump and lothsome sink of carnall affection and fleshly appetite, and not such as distilleth from the bowels of the hart ingenerat by the spirit of God.

Purple prose indeed, but the fact is that these performances were hugely popular, despite this invective.  Or perhaps even, because of it?  The texts themselves were written with the several different levels of understanding in the audiences in mind.  The cruder humour was for those who stood among the groundlings and there were many Classical allusions to flatter the educated in the sixpenny seats.  Who had the most fun though?  Probably those boy actors themselves!
But the 1640s were approaching and the total – though thankfully temporary – victory of the puritans who were to close all of the theatres.  Then, after years of sub-fusc misery, the Reformation saw the return of the monarchy. Charles II issued a royal patent in 1662 to one William d’Avenant, allowing him to use real women in women’s parts.
The age of the boy actor was then over. Indeed, the age of Shakespeare as he wrote it, was then over. What we see now is Shakespeare transposed. Re-written. Modified.
As I mentioned earlier, the boy of then was almost certainly smaller than the boy of now.  I believe Shakespeare used this to delight in reversing the usual power relationships.  Take the role of Portia, in The Merchant of Venice.  This boy-girl trounces the powerful male figures who must physically have towered over the small, but brilliant figure upon the stage – and it is he who appears triumphant in the end.  The author himself appears as a man fighting for a place for brilliant young women in a world where men would normally dominate?  Yet, in everyone’s full knowledge, Portia is actually a boy; as was the quicksilver Maria in Twelfth Night and the tragic Juliet in Romeo and Juliet.  While the role of Portia is deadly serious, Maria is a tiny grinning devil as she bounces about the stage, bullying the adult actors and causing huge amounts of laughter. A contrasting juxtaposition in terms of physical size and actual power was the name of the game.  I have a theory that this echoed the tiny, though very real person, the woman, who paradoxically held such awesome power upon the throne for most of Shakespeare’s life.  Praise for role-reversals would certainly not have been missed by that highly intelligent sovereign!
Barbed humour, sometimes couched in double, or even treble meanings, dominated the comedies, in particular.  And when you consider the possible gestures that would have been added to the words, it is possible to imagine the riotous belly-laughs among the groundlings in the original Globe Theatre.
When all is said and done, Shakespeare wrote immensely powerful roles for women, which is why the drama still works so very well now. Androgyny in the original double-shifted parts is now merely single-shifted, but Shakespeare still lives and is well-loved by many people and rightly so.
Finally, I had the great good fortune to make the acquaintance of Edmund Marlowe when I wrote to him to praise his wonderful book, Alexander’s Choice.  We exchanged occasional emails thereafter and then I discovered his equally wonderful website at www.greek-love.com and later he suggested that I should send him my thesis for publication on the site.
After scratching around for months, I sent it off and what I call The Monstrous Prolixity now sits on his magnificent site: Greek Love Through the Ages.  It is hard to describe the sheer range of both serious and even humorous knowledge of boy-love that is contained within Edmund’s shining demesne.  Richly illustrated, it is full of articles, titles, references, pointers to so many of the people of the past and present, many of whom I have never heard.  It is like a kindly light that shines on a very dark and depressing night.
Yet Edmund, in his last message to me, said that he is not yet satisfied with his site!  I’ll let you be the judge, but for me, I am honoured to have a place in what I see as his Golden Compendium of Boy Knowledge.
 
 
 
 

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Michael Teare-Williams

Tom, remember my brief piece where I spoke of getting a hundred well-educated, reasonable people in a room?
I think that many of those people would secretly agree with everything you have said, though they wouldn’t dare say so!
Then remember that interview that David Hamilton gave to some US media outlet, years ago, in which he said: “If men don’t love very young girls, why have I sold so many thousands of my photo-essays?”.
You no doubt you remember his wonderful, soft-focus pictures?
The poor man is dead, now — just in time to beat the “Me Too” crowd…
M T-W.

Daniel

>Tom youtube vid interview
Great vid tom mate why should someone who isn’t on the spectrum of offending and have never been sexually abused have the audacity to hate underage interaction especially knowing it has never happened to them what an insult!

Daniel

>youtube vid Tom
ps not to mention people with low age attraction

Daniel

Tom re video
It just proves my theory that people who haven’t been abused or haven’t offended are so new to this world awwww in a way it’s sooooo sweeeet

Daniel

Could it have evolved back from the time we started seeing clothes as an necessity?

Daniel

>Tom re video
It proves that their legacy will always be poisoners…..

Daniel

>Tom re audacity
that is of course that he has been abused.

Daniel

Tom will you be doing another video?

Daniel

when i ask its not cos i was trying to push you its more to do with the impression the guy gave me near the end, i think i remember him saying at the start of the interview that he wanted to do another.

Daniel

ok fair enough

Ed Chambers

> Mr Grauer : I am one of the very few people in this world who recognize that there’s a veritable civilization-wide Orwellian conspiracy by government agencies, the media, the academia, and various private entities to numb-down and repress healthy human sexuality for the purpose of controlling and socially engineering society in a way that benefits all parties to this conspiracy.
You are definitely not alone, perhaps there are more people who know this than you might imagine, although speaking up about this is a different matter to knowing it.
> Mr O’Carroll : we need to create new ways of living that are as far as possible both practical in modern times (we cannot go back to being hunter-gatherers) and compatible with our inherited instincts.
I could agree with a minimum age for pregnancy, with the world as it is. China, rightly or wrongly, used a one child birth policy for the best part of 40 years, although it was prejudiced in some respects towards certain groups. As I’ve already said, my opinion is that women benefit from waiting until late teens / early twenties for health reasons in this respect. However, encouraging pregnancies at a later age due to these inherent dangers should not be done by raising the age of consent, which I believe is one of the reasons why this is has been done, puritanical feminist mania to one side for a moment. With the relatively higher levels of education available today, not to mention convenient and effective contraception, and the considerable evidence available to us that young people are sexual, can and do enjoy sexual intimacy, what is first required, obviously, is to expose this conspiracy on a global scale and to counter it with sensible solutions that include at least the lowering of the AOC, or it’s abolition.

Daniel

Political parties and advocacy groups[edit]
In May 1974, the Campaign for Homosexual Equality suggested a basic age of consent of 16, but that could be as low as 12 “in cases where a defendant could prove the existence of meaningful consent”.[24][25] The Sexual Law Reform Society proposed in September of that year lowering the age of consent to 14, with the requirement that below the age of 18 the burden of proof that consent for sexual activities between the parties existed would be the responsibility of the older participant.[26]
In March 1976, the National Council for Civil Liberties (NCCL), called for an equal age of consent of 14 in Britain. The submission to the Criminal Law Revision Committee generated extensive newspaper coverage. While the report recognised the merits of abolishing the age of consent, it proposed retaining a prohibition on sex under the age of 14 “as a compromise with public attitudes”,[27] stating that “although it is both logical and consistent with modern knowledge about child development, to suggest that the age of consent should be abolished, we fear that, given the present state of public attitudes on this topic, it will not be politically possible to abolish the age of consent”.[28] They also argued that “childhood sexual experiences, willingly engaged in, with an adult result in no identifiable damage”, and suggested that more harm was caused when the children retold their experiences in court or to the press. The submission was signed by Harriet Harman, who later became leader of the House of Commons and deputy leader of the Labour Party.[29]
The Communist Party of Great Britain lists abolition of age of consent laws among its immediate demands, with the added provision that there be alternate legal methods to protect children from sexual abuse.[30]
In 2000 a committee of twelve teenage girls, set up to advise the UK government on youth issues, recommended that the age of consent be reduced to 12. The website from which the group was recruited conducted a poll of 42,000 girls between the ages of 12 and 16 on the age of consent; 87% agreed that it should be lowered from 16.[31][32][33]

Daniel

Tom>it was from wiki
Tom>i will try me best to remember in future

Ed Chambers

Interesting statistics and info. It’s very telling that advisory committees formed of young people have been ignored. Adults prefer an agenda of ageism to maintain the power inbalance in their favour, regardless of the fact that reaching a certain age should not be any reason to prejudge.
As for your other comment on teenage pregnancy Daniel, it wasn’t long ago that Tom Grauer had provided the opinion (I can’t remember if he backed this up with any scientific paper) that girls are most fertile between 12 and 16. Boys are most fertile between 16 and 20. With that being said, as far as girls are concerned, I think it’s fair to say that they are better off being a little older for child birth, perhaps late teens, early 20’s, but what do I know.
However, this should not be an excuse to raise the age of consent laws accordingly, particularly bearing in mind modern contraception methods. As Tom has said, issues of sex, love, pregnancy etc should be a matter of sex education, and the earlier this starts, the better for all concerned.

Ed Chambers

> This is completely wrong.
Fair enough.

Michael Teare-Williams

Sorry, Tom, no reference, but I have heard that the internal chemistry of early teen girls is usually acidic enough to make them – mostly – infertile.
Yes, 12s do occasionally get pregnant, but it is fourteen and fifteen-year-olds who are more usually the ones to to become pregnant.
Grauer could possibly therefore change that to 14 to 16?
M T-W.

Daniel

>Tom teen pregnancies
are you saying that when human beings are younger they are less likely to be fertile.

Daniel

Fertility from above are from the independent.

Daniel

>Ed Chambers re sex education
i agree

Tom Grauer

TOC WRITES: Long post from Tom Grauer given more prominent position, re-posted by TOC. See TOC’s comment of Apr 17, 2018 @ 09:16.

Daniel

A question for all,do countries with a lower AOC have lower teenage pregnancies compared to those with a higher AOC?

Daniel

True of False?

Daniel

Yes i myself remember being embarrassed about feeling sexual when i was a child and im sure some people on here feel the same when they look back i dont know if you where made to feel that way in your childhood.

Daniel

Tom teen pregnancies>
Child including myself would experiment sexually with out being entitled to the right tools and also the right knowledge to engage intimately in a safe way.

Daniel

Written by Daniel
Topics include Sexual Offending,Sexual Abuse,Pedophile Hunters and how the cycle works.
Some hunters say they have been sexually abused and like many sexual abuse survivors are guilty of repeating the cycle of sexual of abuse in the same way many sex offenders go on to sexually abuse it is a common nonce affliction which means that sexual abuse survivors are nonce’s, we have had something done to us that society believes is not normal but the fact is, that it is normal just like pedophilia and other sexual orientations are normal. It may not be very nice for the outsiders to hear because they are not use to it and haven’t fully come to terms with that reality which in my view makes them primitive’s to the dark side of the sex world and that it is a part of everyday life, and the true sexual abuse survivor likes to hide what is really going on and use other potential true sexual abuse survivors as scapegoats for their own sexual abuse, why do they do that? Because the abuse has to come out in some way and unfortunately because of the outsiders flawed logic,that also makes them nonce’s because their ignorance contributes to that cycle.

Ed Chambers

So, in a nutshell, some paedophile hunters are sex offenders because of abuse that happened when they were young, and they continue the cycle of abuse because society regards this sort of thing as not normal, whereas the reality is to the contrary?

Daniel

Unfortunately yes but i’m open minded.

Daniel

>ed chambers
I dont see how we can rule it out

Daniel

ed chambers> i’m open minded

Ed Chambers

I can see you are open minded Daniel. I like to think that I am, but I am also aware that this is relative. Learning something new everyday is key, trying to look at things from a different perspective. We’re all different.
This is not the case for society and how it regards adult sexual attraction to children, very much labeled as a, b, c, d etc, pigeon holed, and forgotten.
People who are arrogant enough to believe that they can justify the ‘hunting’ of so called ‘paedophiles’ are very much a part of this ignorance. As you say, laws governing offending, obsolete and harmful in general, are very much a spectrum, the same for perceived and actual harm, but this goes unnoticed more often than not.
I agree with you hunters are gatherers of scapegoats they like to bury them along with the truth upside down in the sand with their eyes closed.

Daniel

>ed chambers
some hunters are genuinely angry and want a scapegoat for that anger so it is just pedophile,pedophile,pedophile some people have been abused and wat happened it might have been unpleasant but not the worst experience other survivors have had it a lot worse and cant see that sex offending is a spectrum because they may be to scared to open their eyes and bury the truth in the sand the case with many abused victims “some sex offenders themselves”

Daniel

>ed chambers re sex abuse normal
ppl who have been abused and the offenders dont see the abuse as much of a big deal compared to the rest of society cos they have already live it, the rest of society are so hysterical because to them its like walking on the moon for the first time.

Daniel

This is not my story:
Is it normal for a child to be extremely horny when they are young (around the age of 5 years old)? adult content
When I grew up, I acted out on sexual acts. I played with my best friend, who I ended up rubbing my clit on hers, and I remembered it felt good. I remember I did it to my closest male cousin, and he told me to keep my panties on but I left them off because – – it felt good. Then I acted out more on another girl when I was 9 and did the same as the my best friend when I was 5. Then as I grew older to 11-12 I got my period and stopped fooling around with my cousin.
I was approached from my father in my sophomore year and he came in one morning to kiss me good morning. He was erect as he pressed himself against me. I pressed up on his chest to get him off and old him to stop and don’t.
Was I hypersexual as a kid because I was sexually abused a lot more than I think as a child? I am trying to figure out why I was so sexual and was this normal for a child?

Libertine

I hear in the Rochdale abuse inquiry, They’re reporting that “even sex between boys was seen as normal”…To me, it just shows how abnormal he have become today. Never underestimate the power of the media!

Daniel

>Rochdale Scandal:
thats interesting i dont remember hearing anything like that

Ed Chambers

> Never underestimate the power of the media.
Agreed, however many people fail to understand how it works, and to what end it is employed.

Daniel

because so many men are attracted to younger females, i wonder if it makes older women jealous.

Michael Teare-Williams

Daniel “so many men attracted to younger females” and whether that makes older women jealous?
Forget about young females causing jealousy. I remember being at a party during which we were each sharing pictures of our sons. I remarked that one blond, blue-eyed beauty that a woman showed me was a “handsome fellow’ and she suddenly burst out: “Yes, and I have to spend an hour each morning painting my face and this little rotter gets out of bed looking like that!”.
She was in her cups and was suddenly really angry and several other mothers in the group laughed bitterly. They felt the first woman’s pain and were tipsy enough to admit how envious they were of their children’s natural beauty.
M T-W.

Daniel

>Michael Teare-Williams re women laughing bitterly
How does that make you feel?

Michael Teare-Williams

I felt sorry for those mothers. They lived – still live – in a world in which feminine beauty is everything. Yet their children can come in from the garden, wipe off the mud and there they are: great shining eyes, perfectly smooth, clear skin, silky hair? It is as though the child is mocking the parent?
Even if the kid is not classically beautiful, he or she has these features, while most women must fight to maintain a mere adumbration of such youthful splendour?
M T-W.

Daniel

getting older is a part of live we know its gonna happen just need to except it

Daniel

>Michael re youth
i like the skin its soooo new.

Ed Chambers

I have confronted people on Facebook with this idea, and I agree it is one of the main problems that exist surrounding the topic of minor attraction in general. Needless to say, it was a heretical opinion to have expressed.
Of course, women like to exercise their control over men using their pussy. If we don’t agree with them, they don’t break bread with us.
So, don’t break bread with them. I’d rather fuck my hand, far less trouble, and arguably less effort and more enjoyable.
The problem within this sphere lies with the issue of progeny. This is easily solved by spreading one’s seed around as much as is possible, and moving on as quickly as possible.

Daniel

>spreading seed
yes this is a natural and enjoyable way of expression that has been destroyed by the traditional must stay with one partner till death due us part and the commitment of being a parent,the only good thing about it is that it helps us remember what it is like to be children again and re live those wholesome moments ie: i remember once walking around town with my uncles kids one day and they told me they wanted to go into this sweet shop and as soon as they did that and i went in with them i remember thinking to myself “oh yes this was something i used to do when i was their age and like many enjoyable activities that children enjoy we seem to forget how enjoyable these things are when we become adults and i think its a shame.

SickToDeathofCUCKS!

Update: Putin has shown himself to be a complete and utter CUCK in failing to take aim at French and Britcunt naval vessels, or fucking “platforms” or whatever. This is truly cuckish behaviour which shows what an utter fraud he actually is. Here is what a REAL nationalist would have accomplished in Russia:
1) The investment of money from natural resources into an economy that produces proper things, including cutting edge technology. ( He DOES deserve praise in the intercontinental missile department)
2) As autarkic a system as possible. For when America, and China, would attempt to economically strangle them.
3) The lowering of AOC to 12 and the decriminalisation of all so-called statutory rape.
4) The imprisonment of LGBTers and their filthy feminist allies.
5) The setting up of Lebensborn hotels where designated Alpha males sleep with pubescent girls.
6) The construction of superstructures like moving skyscrapers, great bridges, greenhouses and theatres. Also, high-tech infrastructure.
Sadly, he has FAILED in all these things, and going shirtless on a mule does not make up for it.
Russia is a CUCK state, and has been humiliated by the West. What a joke!
The Soviet Union was a powerful civilisation with an AOC of fourteen, but they gave it all up for American FREEDOM and the opportunity to sell pizza!
Seriously, to go from the president of a fucking superpower to starring in a pizza hut advert!
The ONE thing PUTIN might have done to have restored PRIDE in his fucking nation would have been to drop a tactical nuclear weapon on Berlin or London. He is a CUCK!

Ed Chambers

Cuckism is a contemporary phenomenon, and unfortunately this very much comes down to giving women the vote, in turn a result of world scale military conflicts that arouse from petty squabbles.
I agree for the most part with points 3, 4, 5, whereas the other points are less valid, criticisms of a very clever man who has done well to maneuver himself into the position of arguably the strongest leader of the Russian state since Stalin.
With Russia being the largest country on earth, this is a huge undertaking, particularly with China and Japan on the one side, Europe on the other, and an underbelly populated by central asians and the middle east, not to mention the American peninsula over the top.
As for dropping nukes on various parts of europe, I would suggest that it would be a far better idea to drop them over the Greater Persian area. Even better still, for everyone who owns nukes to sober up and return to the non proliferation pacts that the US willingly walked away from.
With that being said, there is much profit to be made in a war with conventional weaponry. If people can refrain from hitting the red button whilst in their subterranean bunkers, it would be great to tear down civilisation a rebuild it after 10 years of meaningless slaughter.
I, for one, am going to enrole on a house building course at my local college in anticipation of a future filled with profit and happiness.

Anon

Russia is to introduce life sentences for convicted paedophiles as well as finally bowing to the demands of femihag NGOs and making possession of child porn a serious criminal offence:
https://www.rt.com/politics/423173-convicted-pedophiles-face-life/

Explorer

I contacted Frank Adamo once again, to learn how his “child porn” court case is going. The last hearing was postponed before and should have been in late March, so I expected to learn a result – and hoped that Frank was acquitted of this stupid and empty charge.
Instead of it, I learned that the hearing was postponed once again. Now it is planned to be in mid-May. Frank hopes that it will happen that time, at last, but now, after these constant date-changes, he can’t be certain.
Probably the prosecution understands how weak the charge is, and want to delay the moment of its failure as long as possible? Or, maybe, the people in prosecution believe that anyone who support child sexuality must be a covert paedosexual – even if such person, like Frank, rejects intergenerational sexual contacts – and, therefore, want to torment him with this constant indeterminacy? I don’t know…

Explorer

Yes, you are probably correct.
Bureaucracy is an ugly phenomenon – now I’m learning it myself by experience; happily, not as an accused person in the legal system, but as a simple corporate cog who have to meet so many stupid formalistic demands that hardly any time for a real, productive work is left… as well as for personal activities. This is the reason for my sad inactivity lately, BTW:
https://www.annabelleigh.net/messages/723797.htm
The one plan of mine that is, for now, is constantly being postponed by me (much like Frank Adamo’s court hearnings by the Italian legal system!) is re-wrting my child liberation essay so it will be longer, richer, and (most importantly) suitable for people not familiar with child liberationist argumentation, and then try my best to persuade the administration of one forum (where I have argued for intergenrational sexuality already) to publish it openly. Well, I will do it… but I can’t say when exactly. Sorry for that. 🙁

Daniel

>Tom
Ive read that you used to be a teacher did you ever teach sex education at all?

Daniel

>Tom sex ed
Did you ever consider it?

Daniel

I have come across this article dont know if any1 knows anything about it
Over in Nederland their is a paedophiles political party who have the express intent to legalise kidsex. The legal age for sex is 12. Already legalised, look it up. The party believes paedophillia is a natural form of human sexuality and evolution. That everybody does or will eventually want children sexually

Daniel

wat a bunch of twats!

Libertine

Was it the freedom and diversity party….They’re long dead in the water sorry to say. I have been reading conversations on my phone from another address, but rather not log in on that phone; I can only get onto this site when wy-fi is turned off. Does this site come under the parental “safeguards”?

Daniel

not sure i was just trolling through fbook and came accross it.

Daniel

Parental safegaurds>
i wouldnt imagine so

Ed Chambers

> Does this site come under parental safeguards….?
Something like that. I have to use TOR or a VPN, depending on what mood I’m in.

Daniel

regarding brexit did any 1 here vote in that election? me personally i make the conscious not to vote because well first off i was busy moving house at the time and also didnt know enough about it and didnt want to be guilty of making the wrong decision.

Libertine

As an old school libertarian, I voted out!

Daniel

hi tom just curious, ive read that you used to be a member of the labour party and i was wondering for ppl in our movement what would be the point in joining any political party in this day and age

Rhys

Well, there had to be a civil war in our Great Britain and Mosley and the British Union of Fascists had to have shot all the socialists, atheists, homosexuals and other Labour garbage.
I support fucking little girls because I like them, but you’re an IRISH (Hail to the garbage of the IRA!) Labour faggot who likes to play with boys’ tails, your race, the SS knew how to treat them.
LONG LIVE FASCISM, GREAT BRITAIN FOR THE BRITS!

Daniel

looks like we have an angry punter here dont know if he want to elaborate.

Ed Chambers

Yes, the English Civil War, best part of over four centuries ago, when Oswald Mosley led the fervent National Socialist Workers Party revolution against all the homosexuals, atheists, socialists and other malfactors.
The noblest of conquests, making sure that the world was free from all Irish people. The greatest of victories, where chicken farmers led the charge against the hordes of child lovers, so Great British men could say that they were truly great….and British.
Where people with Welsh names could forget to take their medication and drool into their cornflakes at breakfast time, dreaming of being an Uber Kommando of the Schutzstaffel.
I believe……in what, I’m not sure….
Sieg Heil!

Michael Teare-Williams

Thank you, Tom!
No, the Irish part of me came from the Isle of Man. As did the drooling into my cornflakes…
Who is this Rhys, guy again?
M T-W.

Daniel

well sed tom mate

Ed Chambers

Lol….did you forget your meds like Rhys?

Daniel

my guess is that chedder man would disagree with those ppl

Daniel

true but i guess im just being selfish and that is a very difficult trap to fall into for ppl in our situation cos at the moment my feelings of emotions are that im feeling down trodden on by the way ive been treated by society and it often makes me think well if society doenst want to care about me including the pollies then why should we do our bit to help them and ever since ive come out with my feelings it has strongly diminished my love for humanity.

Daniel

an easy trap to fall into

Daniel

also wud it be an idea if ppl who have come out of the closet like nigel oldfield,tom eddie ect arrange to live on the same street as each other

Daniel

A scenario of a world with no AOC:
If a child and an adult are in a successful relationship and the child tells you that he/she is ready to have sex with you, but at the same time you feel there is some controversy as to weather or not they are physically ready,then Im sure a gynecologist would be able to help.

Anti-Male sexualism

Per example a Male sexualist: a holocaust21 comment in Tom Grauer blog:
“This spectrum also means that some rapes that carry life sentences now would under my system carry a suspended sentence. If a man has sex with a woman by force and without consent, but doesn’t really injure her, then at most he could be charged for assault which currently often carries suspended sentences. And in my court system being an incel would be an acceptable excuse for the offence and that would lower the sentence further.”
Suspended sentences for sex with a woman by force and without consent he says. Nice.

Ed Chambers

It’s a little bit of a shame to be fair. As I’ve said before, there are some ideas that Grauer and I agree on, but many I don’t. I think any endorsement will go to the man’s head in the same way a shot of cask strength malt whisky will in a 12 year old person. Unfortunately, Evind Berge endorsed the guy, I wonder if he has had second thoughts on this. As HTOC has said, ignore. Denounce if you will, but no more than that. Keep calm, drink tea. Anyone who knows anything can see the guy is suffering from brain bubbles…..

holocaust21

You still haven’t explained how my rape scenario is any worse than assault?

Ed Chambers

Hi Tom. [TOC WRITES: to avoid confusion it looks as though the reference here is to Tom Grauer. But TG has not announced his presence here as far as I am aware.]
It’s good to see you alive and kicking. If you are being sincere in some of your arguments, and not deliberately provocative for the sake of it, I would ask that you think again, certainly on some issues.
For me, I was a fan of your blog, it was brave of you to discuss these things openly. However, there were many things that flew right over my head (on the basis of them being Lucy in the Sky), as things can do for sure, but I don’t think I am alone in this.
I will agree that for the most part, feminism and puritanically based laws and systems of morality have been allowed to go so far as to erode many freedoms, namely the right to speak freely on anything without prejudice, even think freely too. We are living in increasingly Orwellian times, a dystopic nightmare.
I am very critical of laws governing ‘sex offending’, SORs and AOC laws. They do more harm than good. Regret rape, change of mind rape, ‘pissed up’ rape, ‘wanted an orgy, turned into a gang bang’ rape are simply feminism becoming so very obviously malignant, if it were ever benign in the first place (I believe it has been beneficial to some degree, in some respects, certainly in it’s early days, no longer).
To answer your question Tom, to openly advocate for the legalisation of rape, or at least for minimal sentences or cautions for violent sexual assaults is, to me at least, madness, and this certainly includes occasions where ‘no harm was done’. If after the act, said person has enjoyed it, then fine. That still doesn’t make it right. They may not report it accordingly, but that sets an incredibly dangerous precedent in their interpersonal sexual relationships. For me, it’s like spiking someones drink with LSD. Even if they have a good trip, unlikely by all accounts, they didn’t ask for it, didn’t want it, it was not consensual.
I can’t see how I could be wrong on this one, but as always I am willing to listen and learn.

Ed Chambers

Damn….getting confused….for a moment I had thought DAF was holocaust21….my mistake…. :l
Either way, I stand by what I have written here….

holocaust21

Well, that just shows a very different morality. If something turns out good I don’t see how any good can come from inflicting unnecessary punishments?
Anyway, I didn’t say forcefully having sex with someone without their consent was always wonderful. It might be sometimes the subject feels annoyed about it. But it’s not the heinous crime that your feminist mind makes it out to be. It is merely assault, and that means the punishments must be proportionate to the magnitude of the crime that it is.
That said, there’s something to be said about society and a tolerance level of “being bad”. The feminist nightmare wants to annihilate anything that it conceives of as “bad” and the feminists have no distinction of shades of grey, or levels of bad. For the feminists, annoyance is the same as murder. You might remember there was a famous set of children stories “Just William” which largely revolved around a boy being bad. There were also the “Dennis the Menace” comics which again revolved around another boy being bad. Actually there are still Dennis the Menace comics, but he is now no longer a menace due to feminism (see https://j4mb.org.uk/2017/12/28/dennis-the-menace-has-been-castrated/). My point being in our past culture there was something that people saw as kind of OK with someone being moderately bad. Perhaps “liberating” is the term. I guess in some ways being bad opens up a world of adventure, to do things that people tell you not to do. And when you’re a victim of a bad thing, maybe you don’t think it’s funny, but maybe it’s good for you. Gets you out of your comfort zone. Like kids pulling down your pants at school, an act which I’m sure you and the feminists would say is rape and can never be excused. But just 40 years ago would probably have been seen as potentially funny and casual bullying. And for the victim, perhaps it makes them stronger as a person and less snowflake like. So for those reasons I support re-legalising pulling down kids pants in school or “sexual assault” as the law calls it.

bjmuirhead

And thank you Fritz, for your most marvellous distinction between the Dionysian and the Apollonian, first presented in The Birth of Tragedy.
Yeah, me old mate N is either misquoted, or not credited at all for his marvellous ideas. (I’ll bet Bett didn’t mention him.)
Just to explain: I call him me old mate, because we went through high school together, me, myself, and my battered copy of Also Sprach Zarathustra.

bjmuirhead

Good!!
I have seen many a tv show in which he was not credited, so I’m really happy she did.

bjmuirhead

The St Trinian’s girls! Monsters all.

Daniel

>pulling a kids pants down in the classroom: By that logic i got raped by a school girl cos wen i was about 14 a girl on the street that i used to live on with my mum and her now husband pulled my pants down in front of the other kids.

Libertine

The banning of benny hill, cos ‘some women get attacked in parks’, comes to mind. People like that just don’t have a sense of humour.

Daniel

u sed the rape is no different than assault i would have thought that they are all one and the same thing like the holy trinity

Daniel

as far as im aware rape is assault

Daniel

hi ed how r u doin? ive watched the documentary the peado nxt door on youtube and i thought it was very good, the things that wer mentioned wer common sense to me, i assume yourself and ppl like ian mcfadyen but id imagine that they wouldnt be to other ppl who havent had our experience and i was wondering wer i could find the more recent film i paedophile?

Daniel

i have also set up a facebook account and looked you up and i have found a page but cant tell weather or not it is the real you

Ed Chambers

Feel free to wave / message me on facebook. I guess you have to suck it and see. I’m pretty sure there’s only one me the last time I checked.

Daniel

what about a vid that way u can see wat i look like and vice-versa

Ed Chambers

The link to my facebook page is here, in the comments to MTW’s blog…..you first my young fruit…..

Daniel

ed chambers: cant find young fruit but if u check your fb u might find something new.

bjmuirhead

The point about shows like this is that we get a condensed, highly refined version of what may have happened. McF is just as likely to invent his memories as we are. The absolute main points of his story are likely to be true. The rest is almost certainly invention….

Daniel

I guess facts are like agents off the matrix same with pedos, like the great morphous said “they are every one and they are no one”

Daniel

if the whole world was honest about their sexual attraction to kids then we r all paedos and that includes peado hunters themselves

Please people read this!

The MAP Movement has been kidnapped by psychopaths:
On Tom Grauer’s blog in “Reflections on Admittance Into Our Movement” (No link):
“So, what are our “extreme” principles? My own position is the following: a true Male Sexualist is any man who seeks to 100% legalize male sexuality. The AOC should be zero (0), child pornography should be legal, child prostitution should be legal, non-consensual sex should be legal, and generally “sex crime” legislation should be abolished. Also, being completely opposed to Puritanism and to Feminism, we want all laws and all social norms that benefit women at the expense of men to be abolished, and all of civilization — which we men have created and which we alone maintain — should be structured (or re-structured) in a way that absolutely serves our interests.”
“Regarding the second point, again I completely agree: there should be no “sex crime” legislation. I am personally against the existence of a law that says “it is forbidden for a man to sexually force himself on a woman.” I believe that there can be laws dealing with the violation of property rights, and women should be considered the property of their fathers or husbands.”
“I believe that “consent” (or lack thereof) should have nothing to do with whether or not a sex act is right.”
This isn’t trolling, it’s a 100% serious post. Either we act quickly or they will end up absorbing the MAP movement in this Islamism mixed with maculinism altogether.
This lunatics are like a cult that calls “puritanical-feminist” anyone who does not believe that a woman should marry against her will and be beaten every night by her husband and an 8-year-old girl who is not already married should be brutally raped in the street. THIS IS SICK! THIS IS NOT THE MAP MOVEMENT! LET’S STOP THIS MONSTERS NOW!
Please, people, let’s join together to get rid of these horrible medieval-minded and criminal beings of the MAP movement once and for all.

Nada

The AOC should be zero (0), child pornography should be legal, child prostitution should be legal, non-consensual sex should be legal, and generally “sex crime” legislation should be abolished.
This is certainly better than the status quo in Norway.
The calls for legal reform should be seen in the proper context – one where sex, no matter how desired, is defined as “rape”.
Rather than, by way of quote-mining, call for the condemnation of those few non-MAPs brave enough to semi-openly stand up for MAPs, why doesn’t the OP submit his own principles, and let others judge if they are much better than Grauer’s or Berge’s?

Ed Chambers

> The calls for legal reform should be seen in the proper context – one where sex, no matter how desired, is defined as “rape”.
If that is true, and I have my doubts, then arguing the pendulum should swing from one extreme to the other is another way of painting the scenario black and white, instead of searching for the right balance in a grey area.
> The AOC should be zero (0), child pornography should be legal, child prostitution should be legal, non-consensual sex should be legal, and generally “sex crime” legislation should be abolished.
Whilst I agree that the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of puritanical feminism, fielding such an extreme view as a means to try to reverse this is counter productive. Whilst I think AOC laws should be abolished with a view to enabling greater education for all on consensual sexual relationships (including those of an intergenerational nature), advocating for the legalisation of non consensual sex is, at the very least, provocative, as is the same for trying to legalise child prostitution. Decriminalising inter-generational relationships very much depends on them being consensual, and it is fair to say with certainty that any instance of child prostitution will be a result of coercion and exploitation.
Possession of child pornography should be decriminalised, whereas the production of such material should be adjudicated according to whether or not it was made using coercion or was consensual as part of a loving relationship. Child nudity is less complicated, as this type of pornography could be produced on a basis of consent with monetary reward.
I can only think that your frustrations with the status quo are pushing you towards an agenda that will single you out to be far more extreme than radical, and viewed as far less than credible.

Daniel

i wonder which is at least the most paedo friendly country in the world does any 1 know?

Ed Chambers

I know

Daniel

???

Christian

A quote of the good old Abraham Lincoln:
I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves, it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly, those who desire it for others. When I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.
Statement to an Indiana Regiment passing through Washington (17 March 1865); The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln Volume VIII
PS. Tom, please moderate comments waiting since several days…

Daniel

does any 1 have a website link for MAPs

Ed Chambers

See my comment below Daniel. A pedo, not so long back, was given a three year sentence for handing out the actual address…..to an undercover LEA….

Daniel

i agree with you that the social norms that patronise and paint women as being fragile creatures sucks and needs to be changed, and from your messege you are obviously any an angry and rejected human being and it is a shame you have been treated the way u have been and i remember reading about a man called elliott roger who felt the same way and wen he died my sympathy really went out to him and i hope (if there is such a thing) that he is happy in heaven with the angels.

Daniel

yes u r absolutely right tom and i agree that what he did was wrong but there is a lot of evidence to suggest that social exclusion is a huge problem for a lot of young men in this world and like many angry incels or socially inept ppl in our society it can unfortunately make a lot of young ppl take the law into their own hands and i think as a society that we need to do more to try to include these young men into a more diverse social circle in order to make them feel happier in themselves and help them to feel less isolated, more confident which i believe will reduce that aggression and less likely to commit these kind of acts

Hypersonic

Amos Yee is being censored again. Some of his pro-pedo videos were removed from his YouTube channel, and all of his videos were demonetized. Now his YouTube account is frozen for two weeks. I am really disappointed right now.

galileo1439

He should get on d.tube or bitchute. The blockchain video sites are where everyone is going now after being censored on youtube. Youtube is basically dead.

Hypersonic

How long until they get censored on those platforms too? There is no freedom of speech. Even 8chan won’t let us have our community; the /younglove/ board was deleted.

Ed Chambers

You are right of course….as far as the clear net is concerned. Our future lies on The Onion Router. Safety in layers. Ignore the LEA, media and other fools. The index board is nigh on impenetrable now, and all forums and sites are slowly increasing in numbers again after, admittedly, a difficult winter. Soon, V3 TOR will have had it’s bugs ironed out and such technology is the key to our freedom, at least for now.
It is recommended that you use TAILS to access TOR. For those who already know what these are, great! For those that don’t, TAILS is The Amnesiac Incognito Live System : https://tails.boum.org/. TOR is The Onion Router : https://www.torproject.org/.
It is recommended that one uses TAILS, which has TOR browser bundle incorporated into it. This is, among other reasons, primarily because most modern chips / chipsets have a hidden operating system called MINIX (https://www.zdnet.com/article/minix-intels-hidden-in-chip-operating-system/) buried in their archetecture I am no expert on this, but it is as insecure as Woody Allen on acid and not good news. So, running TOR on Windows is NOT secure, even if you have a bridge / no logs VPN configured correctly : https://thatoneprivacysite.net/vpn-comparison-chart/.
Keep your software updated! Many sites accessible through TOR will not be if you are not up to date!
What I would urge every MAP to remember is that we are very much the thought criminals that society thinks deserve no quarter, no mercy, and we can very much be bullied, demonised, isolated and denied without any recall to justice or human rights. Henceforth, we need to unite and make use of this technology.
As I have said before, use TOR (preferably on TAILS) browser, search with DuckDuckGo to find the dark net search engine ‘notEvil’. From there, if you try a few suitable search phrases, you will find the index board for our community. I can’t list it here, but don’t give up. It’s easy enough to find.
I would very much like to see HTOC blog and notable others there, it is something I hope to discuss and take further……
Like Youtube, Twitter and Facebook et al, the clear net is dead.
Long live the The Onion Router….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)

Safety tips for modern MAPs

POST DELETED.
[TOC WRITES: I have just been informed that the advice which appeared briefly in this space is incorrect and should be ignored.]

Daniel

i am sure they will be back like the terminator lol
there is that many of us out there we will never stop and if the jo public dont like it then tuff

bjmuirhead

Unfortunately, Michael Teare-Williams, your thesis is not available through he UWA repository.
Is there some reason why it is not available there, or have yoiu just not bothered to upload it?
I ask because I refer to have y own pdf which I can either annotate or print.

Michael Teare-Williams

Thank you for asking that question, BJM!
In 2,000, when I submitted my thesis, it was printed and bound in (I think) 4 hard-copies. I kept one and one stayed in the university for assessment. Two other copies were sent out to other university markers, who assessed them and then sent back their individual annotated copies in time.
The consensus of their “grades” and my university, decided whether I received my MA; or whether major corrections or re-writes were necessary. My output survived with a couple of minor corrections required, so I was asked to submit two final hard-copies to the university. These two copies were bound and one was installed in the library and one bound copy was given to me to keep.
My copy is still in my home — unless the weevils have eaten it since last I looked — but when I went down to my university to check on the copyright situation recently — prior to my big re-write — I was told by the librarian that they couldn’t find it…
I took a deep breath and swallowed hard. Were theses not supposed to be kept forever, I asked? The charming and very helpful librarian was rather evasive and said that theses were now submitted in ebook form, so no hard-copies were kept!
This obviously did NOT answer my question and I could perhaps have made a fuss, but then I thought this pleasant person was most certainly not guilty of having “misplaced”, or worse still, having simply burnt my work, so I thanked her and walked away with a clear conscience.
As far as I was concerned, I could certainly publish — and I damned well would!
IF you want to read it, it’s on greek-love.com but if you REALLY want a copy of what I call THE MONSTROUS PROLIXITY, I can send it to you as an MS Word document. All I need is an email address.
Good question. Thanks for your input! M T-W.

bjmuirhead

Wow! And: I’m a tad surprised that they lost it. Libraries usually are much more careful with their copies.But, it also isn’t the first time a library has lost a thesis. But at least you got there; while I was working on my MA, I was thrown in the academic deep end, crashed and burned, and refused to do their required re-write. A long, tedious story…
Yes, I do much prefer a copy I can annotate and print, and it looks like a good read. (Ex-academic philosopher talking.)
If your don’t mind Tom, could you pass my email on to MT-W?

bjmuirhead

Thanks. I’m not really feeling like having it too easy to find. (Laugh here.)

bjmuirhead

Yes, it is true that when I comment off the top of my head, I frequently talk nonsense, especially first thing in the morning. Now, at night, I may be talking nonsense again.
I stand by my comments on the experience of pain, however; or: I think I do. But, I didn’t intend to say that we should believe the “victim”; I intended only that we should accept their account of their pain, which may have little or nothing to do with what actually happened.
“That something happened and that I experience pain” is an interesting idea. That something happened can be questioned, challenged, and proven correct or not. An account of emotional pain, however, is not something which can be verified, falsified, and so on. Indeed, an account of emotional pain may have nothing to do with what was supposed to have occurred.
I hope this has clarified what I intended when I said we should accept a person’s account of their pain—not a person’s account of “abuse”, as such.
Yeah,maybe I’m talking ongoing nonsense. Wouldn’t be the first time, and won’t be the last.
(I feel as though I am digging a deeper hole, but let the hole be dug.)

bjmuirhead

P.S., love the poem.

Daniel

I hope Adam Johnson is keeping his spirits up

Ed Chambers

Adam is a nice guy. Intelligent. & I think there is very little that one could teach the guy on topic. I think he’ll be ok, but as of yet he’s failed to see how important he is.

Daniel

so do u think that adam johnson is someone that we can work with wen he gets out

Ed Chambers

I barely know the guy to comment any further, aside from I’ve already said. I wish him all the best though, no matter what his situation is. I believe his email address is listed here in the comments sections to my guest blog if you wish to communicate with him.

bjmuirhead

>>>>>>Some alleged victims need no encouragement, being all too willing to spin a tissue of lies about their “living hell”, “flashbacks” and so forth, as we know from cases where the incident itself was proven to be a fabrication.
Yes, unfortunately this is true, but the distinction had to be made, even if i made it a bit too strongly, because there are people out there who are quite genuine about what they say about their pain. And, of course, there are those who minimise it.

Daniel

for me the pain of the abuse wasnt massive even though i was manipulated and tricked into wat was done, and at the time i knew in my mind that it didnt feel right but i thought it was right, and i think that is cos i had and to some extent still have communication difficulties because of my autism and the reason i thought it was ok is cos i didnt have any education in how relationships work and i also had difficulty interacting with other ppl (and it was even more difficult for me to interact with other children) cos i also lacked the social skills need to and just assumed that wat was going on was normal cos i saw ppl in films doing the sort of things that this man was doing to me.

Daniel

the worst thing i can think of is knowing ppl hate u and not fully understanding why but wen one does figure it out, it doesnt make everything better, but it definitely helps makes the situation that one is in a lot less worse, i have found

Explorer

Sadly, Russell a.k.a. Nucklear ProtoStunt has recently deleted his blog:
https://nucklearonline.wordpress.com/
I don’t know why he did that… Russell, if you read this – can you respond and tell us why you made such decision? If you are willing, of course.

Michael Teare-Williams

Thank you, Tom, Lovelace’s words entirely fit the situation of a person feeling him/herself alone in a world of danger and hatred.
I was incredibly lucky while in prison. I had my thesis to fill my days with reading and writing and the ordering of my thoughts. As well, I had the support of my family, friends and my university.
It was very hard to say “Yes, no, three bags full…” to those silly counsellors, but while I was being given “strategies for correcting my skewed thoughts” I was in a parallel world involving hawthorn hedges on sunny days and – I’ll say no more…
In fairness, it is possible to say that the Prison Service in Western Australia was trying hard to reform itself at that time. They were signing on younger, better educated men who encouraged education and the arts and replaced many of the thuggish bullies among the “officers” who had previously given our prisons their bad name.
On the other hand, I have no idea if they are still doing this BS counselling. They probably are…
M T-W.

Ed Chambers

In response to Thought Police (below) as well as Tom’s quote (above) :
In a number of ways, ‘1984’ kept me sane over the years. It is my favourite film (Hurt / Burton) / book. I guess it could be said that we are all a minority of one, in the purest sense. Of the many writings in the book that stayed with me, this one stood out more so :
‘Being in a minority, even in a minority of one, did not make you mad. There was truth and there was untruth, and if you clung to the truth even against the whole world, you were not mad.’

Daniel

Edward do u think it is time more ppl with our attraction/sex offenders need to come forward and do u think that more will be less afraid of doing so due to the amount of ppl being stung by hunters (not that i agree with the ppl trying to talk to children online) but those of us who dont or are not currently offending and dont want to reoffend will come out within say the next 10 years or so.

Daniel

re the counsellors: you cant sit down with them and tell them how u really feel i tried that once and she wouldn’t even go into it as soon as a mentioned the words AOC she just shut the conversation right away and told me that i just couldn’t
have it (discussing aoc laws) and her face just screwed up and i was literately waiting for the burning torches and kkk crosses, there was NO rational or reasonable discussion or anything that i would expect from a so called professional person at all so in the end i just sent her a text messege basically telling her to fuck off and stick her counselling up her ass, however i have had a thought since and that is that paedophiles and ex offenders should run their own counselling services.

Ed Chambers

Regarding Daniel’s first comment :
In society at the moment, people on the whole simply want to bury minor attraction, so that they don’t have to worry / think about it. To a greater extent this approach is largely accepted, or at least allowed to carry on without impediment. This can be seen most recently with DDOS attacks on Virped for instance, but these types of things have been going on for a while now, both on the clearnet and TOR. (I digress briefly, but it’d be interesting to know for sure whether the source of these DDOS attacks are from antiMAP thugs or from the ‘pro consent’ MAP community…..) There is no reasonable discussion in the public domain regarding minor attraction, AOC and child sexuality and this is a bad development for many reasons, not least because of the effects on personal liberties and freedom of speech. I genuinely feel sorry for children growing up in a world in which they are infantilised and condescended to on the basis of the age they are.
My only advice to MAPs / people talking to children online is to play the hunters at their own game. For sure, it’s likely that we only hear about the successful stings the tools make, not ones where they get messed around and made to look like fools. It is another idea I have to do exactly this with these dole wallers who have nothing better to do with their time, but as with all of the ideas I have, without people willing to come in with me on such projects, it makes it very difficult to do on my own. I’d be quite happy to turn up at a sting and go toe to toe with them but that would be a waste of time.
I can’t ask for MAPs to come forward, perhaps I have no right to do that. It’s a very dangerous thing to do. With that being said, if you count the number of people registered as sex offenders, and more importantly those who are paedophillic, there would be a considerable number. It is very much a dream like scenario to have all MAPs, offenders or otherwise, unite. As George Orwell wrote in his book ‘1984’, regarding the nature of power and the proletariat (I paraphrase) :
Until they became conscious, they would not rebel.
Until they rebelled, they would not become conscious.
It would be an idea to contact those on the SOR and ask them to participate. Strength in numbers etc. I would be very happy to be a part of such a movement, but again, it’s something I would struggle to do on my own, at least at the moment. Nevertheless, there is the future…..
In reply to Daniel’s second comment :
When I first came out to a woman back in 2001, I had not thought it through. It was a thoroughly bad idea but I really needed help and advice at that time. With that being said, she didn’t report me to the authorities, however she did tell everyone she knew. For many years, I thought she had done me a favour, as she organised an appointment with a consultant psychiatrist, with whom she had had numerous dealings with. After all, we are classified as being mentally ill. Going to that appointment was another very bad idea, after which it’s fair to say I not only shot myself in both feet, but effectively blown them off with a large caliber weapon.
I have survived against pretty tall odds, and up until very recently had believed the Projekt Prevention Dunkelfeld was the way forward. I had even tried to settle in Berlin to attend. However, after reading the PPD, it is a thoroughly oppressive regime. In a nutshell the core principle upon which it is based is this : no child would ever want to have / experience sexual intimacy with an adult.
Of course this is true sometimes, utter bollocks at others. It very much depends on the person and situation. It is easier for society to paint the picture with black and white paint.
If you are aware of StopSo and StopItNow in the UK, one only has to read the name to understand where they are coming from. Nothing to do with helping people, considering love and relationships. It’s all about following the law. I wanted to talk about so many things with Juliet Greyson and the Nazi she referred me to for therapy, but as you have written Daniel, it is pointless to try. These rule crazy bitches are only interested in Victory and Salvation….or to the rest of us, Sieg Heil.
As for running our own counselling services, pretty much as Tom has said. It is needed, but needs to be completely independant. Any officially related service is always going to be constrained by mandatory reporting laws, which are more unhelpful than constructive. If people want help and advice regarding child pornography addiction or with regards to a relationship with a child that, for example, may be getting out of hand, they need to be able to talk it through without prejudice and without the threat of mandatory reporting.
As regards FUMA, I dont’ know enough about it, but I think it’s a cul-de-sac if they are trying to influence conventional therapy for MAPs to turn towards a less regulated scenario. We should very much be looking to developing our own therapy for MAPs, with our own moral code, outside of what society deems right or wrong. Virped is simply an appeasement to society with self abasement as default. Their associations with the likes of Cantor, StopItNow, StopSO and ATSA are testament to this. I very much want to help MAPs through issues, but again this is only possible by our kind turning inward and doing this for ourselves.
I’m very interested to learn of Dr Frans Gieles. For sure we should be moving in this direction, but therapists will be unable / unwilling to accept this line of thought, as it begins to question the AOC laws and immorality of intergenerational relationships, which is a BIG no no….

Ed Chambers

If I might add, it is an idea, bearing in mind we are ‘mentally ill’ (according to the DSM) for MAPs to go to their Doctors and inform them of being paedophillic. Nothing more. If one happens to be caught offending at a later date, one can always highlight the lack of therapy in court and sue the NHS…..it’s something that I have thought about a great deal over the years…..

Daniel

so just to confirm does maps stand multidisciplinary association for psychedelic studies? and do you have an email address so i can talk to u more privately cos there a some other things i would like to ask without any unwanted readers.

Daniel

also wat does SOR stand for

Daniel

we might be able to talk on skype which is also something i would like to do with tom wen he has time.

Ed Chambers

I don’t use skype. My facebook profile is linked to in the comments here, we can use messenger if you like. SOR is sex offender registry, something very similar to the lists the Nazis used. MAPs means ‘Mums are preferable single’.

Ed Chambers

Ahhh…that’s where I’ve been going wrong. For sure, learn something new everyday or there’s something wrong…..I think a glossary of terms is a v good idea…..

Daniel

the reason i asked if it meant multi ect is cos i did a google search and that is wer i got it from i couldnt find anything like you (tom) or ed has said

Daniel

i agree that heretic toc shoud have FAQ section

Ed Chambers

Lol, so you did :
http://www.maps.org/

Daniel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWgZ-KQ3M3A
in this film the counsellor says that “pedophilia is not a sickness lets be absolutely sure” it is so sad watching this.

Daniel

wen it comes to any projects that you do does that involve going to any political conferences or some kind of official research being done at universities or any other places like that ppl like myself could attend

Daniel

ed in order to contact people on the sor do u have a web link

Peter Herman

Notwithstanding that your imprisonment, Tom, was definitely not a pleasant experience, not everyone who is imprisoned is capable of keeping a sane mind. There are many egregious situations of incarceration, including solitary confinement and constant physical threats that drive some to suicide or, barring that, make them compliant and slavish. J.K. Rawlings in her Harry Potter stories invented characters called “dementors” which would very much describe guards and/or gang members in US prisons. I knew at least one man who had his neck sliced so as to be marked as a “child molester.” If a prison situation is not terribly oppressive, then yes, one’s mind might still be free.

Daniel

the worst thing i can think of is knowing ppl hate u and not fully understanding why but wen one does figure it out, it doesnt make everything better, but it definitely helps makes the situation that one is in a lot less worse, i have found

Ed Chambers

In reply to Daniel’s comment below :
If one looks at the history of demonification of a demographic, gender, ‘race’ etc, there are many easy examples to take a look at. Perhaps the easiest and most notable, certainly of recent times, is to observe once more how National Socialist Germany tried to destroy the Jewish people and culture.
There are many ways one can look at this, but essentially the state of Germany at that time benefited from this in many ways. Having a common enemy, particularly one that existed within the country, united the people and turned their attention away from the political struggles and activities of the ‘ruling class’ at that time, as well as the depression and economic struggles of the country on the whole. Taking away the businesses, wealth, rights of anyone Jewish and sending them into work / death camps created wealth by means of asset stripping as well as the inevitable space for new business for people regarded as acceptable by the state. This all coupled with military mobilisation and industrialisation etc etc
In recent times, the state wishes to control the population in a progressive way that appears to be in the name of a just cause. The start of such a process is to twist the meanings of words, and in our case the word ‘pedophile’. Whilst those of us educated in this sphere will know it means ‘child lover’, the media have allowed to twist this so it means ‘child rapist’. Anyone who now identifies as being romantically and sexually attracted to children will struggle to do so openly without attracting the unwanted attention of LEA and SJW. We see a similar operation here to the media machine of the NSDAP. All intergenerational relationships are regarded as abusive and contrary to dogmatic and over zealous legislation, and Dr’s and medical professionals are paid to lie regarding the truth about human sexuality, regarding adult sexual attraction to children as a mental illness, regardless of the history of such things in civilisation.
Any person over the age of 18 showing the slightest sign of sexual attraction to people under the same age are regarded as deviant criminals intent on harming the ‘innocent and pure child’, very much in the same fashion that Jewish men were intent on deflowering the purity of Aryan women.
Unbeknown to many who have not been educated to ignore the mis / disinformation of the mass media as it exists today, society in general is being led up the garden path on many things, not just on pedophilia, but in general, to name a few, the democratic process, freedom of speech, police rights, drug laws etc.
‘Pedophile hunters’, whilst being nothing of the sort, are simply hooligans who have essentially been allowed to target a demographic with unmitigated persecution, harrassment and unlawful acts. They are fools who have know real idea about what and who a pedophile is, but enjoy the right to target them legitimately without realising that in some fashion they could well end up the target to similar persecution in the future.
Social media is very much key to this behaviour, effectively being a medium for the outsourcing by the governments of the world for a form of mass censorship / indoctrination. By portraying the ‘devil’ in the newspapers and on tv, platforms such as Facebook and Twitter then enforce this with a like / dislike / report / banning procedure that makes heroes out of hooligans and criminals out of decent people who have a differing sexuality. Consequently our sexual interests are portrayed as less human, and harmful in all scenarios of their manifestation.
One should consider that education systems of the world now cater for 11+ years of indoctrination, producing more meat for the machine. People on the whole can’t see that they are setting themselves up for a big fall, undermining their own future rights to freedom of speech and expression, based on a moral compass born of puritanism that developed as a means to prevent children born out of wedlock, and as some means to curtail sexually transmitted disease, something that no doubt would’ve been a great benefit before antibiotics and condoms.
As MTW alluded to in his comments here, we are living in the age of the thought police, and ‘peophile hunters’ are nothing more than fools observing the two minutes hate :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KeX5OZr0A4

Daniel

girl lover lindsey ashford has a similar view and i have to agree completely the way our attraction is approached in the same way as homosexuality was approach and i also get the impression that dr james cantor feels the same way but wont admit it cos he’s worried about career suicide

Daniel
Ed Chambers

I used to believe otherwise Daniel, that we are ill, abusive child rapists intent on diabolical harm….you know….all of the fecal matter egested by the media. I even went for help that wasn’t there, as a result of believing this nonsense. It’s something that I’d happily bring to light if I ever got the knock at the door, I would expose the lies, hypocrisy and tackle them head on.
Many will confirm that it has produced a new industry in the form of CSA, with mental health professionals, victims / survivors who otherwise would still look positively on such experiences and vigilantes building a name for themselves by acting illegally in so many ways, the media reinforcing the straw house that would fall in people were allowed to speak up without being cut down by the SJW / blame industry.
As for James Cantor, he is arguably the biggest hypocrite of all in the sphere, and regardless what the man’s true thoughts and feelings on the matter are, you are right : it would be career suicide to ever admit to believing anything other than the government / socio dogma on the issues. Despite his own homosexuality, and the history of persecution of his kind, he continues to profit from the demonisation of something that is human, and if allowed to manifest on a basis of consent, both harmless and beneficial.
I doubt the man has any scruples in this regard, bearing in mind the guy is obviously intelligent enough to understand the wider sphere and history of the topic.
Governments around the world like to control peoples’ thoughts and behaviours by highlighting the bad in any scenario thought to lead to a way of life less than morally acceptable in the eyes of the closed minded individual. Hence, the situation is very much a part of the ‘War on…’ mentality, namely Terror, Drugs, Pedophiles. Demonise the subject matter : All terrorists are murdering thugs. All drugs are harmful and rot your brain & body. And all pedophiles violently rape innocent children.
It is a grey area, like everything else in life : one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. One man’s drug is another man’s poison. Sometimes a person enjoys sex, at other times they do not, regardless of age.
The only thing I would continue to advocate for in lieu of any therapeutical practice on topic would be counselling for MAPs who erroneously but understandable believe the shyster politicians and journalists and their oral fecal ejections, AND therapy for people that ACTUALLY want to drive around raping and murdering children. People like (in the UK) Mark Bridger, Ian Huntley, Roy Whiting, Ian Brady et al should’ve been in therapy addressing their needs a long time before they did what they did. However, the mandatory reporting laws and wild west journalism put a stop to that possibility ever happening.
Instead we now have witch doctors like Juliet Greyson, Sarah Goode et al professing that ALL sexual interactions between ‘adults’ and ‘children’ are harmful, and very much so at that, and all MAPs should come forward for ‘help’. The only issue being that mandatory reporting laws stop a great many people discussing the very things that they would need to discuss in this ‘helpful therapy’.
Lucking fudicrous.

Daniel

on sexuality i think cantor is right about neural wiring in the brain that help trigger responses in ones sexuality hetro,ephebphile,homo ect itsnt that just a part of human revolution?

Daniel

sorry evolution

anon

Ephebophilia doesn’t exist, it’s like being attracted to 20-year-olds. a guy named theantifeminist.com wrotes: “there is no such thing as ephebophilia. It’s a made up term used by confused young males with poor social awareness who have swallowed the feminist lie that most men don’t find young teen girls sexually attractive.”

Daniel

anon: according to the professionals people it does.

Ed Chambers

The ‘professionals’ are paid to endorse certain viewpoints in society. Hence, we see the erroneous theme, for example, upon which the therapy at the Dunkelfeld Projekt in Germany (which I’ve heard is now failing / in danger of losing it’s funding) is based, ie all intergenerational relationships are harmful and abusive by default, and that no person below the age of consent would ever wish to have any sort of intimate encounter with someone above the AOC.
Don’t be fooled by the nonsense that the likes of Cantor and Goode regurgitate. It is a smoke screen for a society bent on narrowing human behaviours, thoughts and freedom of speech.

Daniel

im not saying that our wiring is wrong im saying that it is different in the same way as i mentioned above.

Daniel

i agree with you about endorsement

Daniel

afraid i dont know much about MAPs but will look into it

Ed Chambers

Now that is interesting Daniel….

Daniel

Donald Trump likes a bit of controversy i wonder wat he would think?

warbling j turpitude

I’m sad Ed that you so easily lump all these together, I really am. I mean of course the ‘discourses’ (such as they are) variously informing views of the illegal drug world, reportage on terrorism, and all pop talk of paedophiles. Last time I checked all present-day terrorists were indeed murdering thugs, if religiously transported ones, and I wonder very much what alternative way of understanding such people you could now direct our attention to? I suppose that obviously really existing drug cartels could share the same discursively-strewn stage as “paedophile rings”, but only in the hive-mind of those for whom one nice media bite is as good as another – am I right so far? These last two both partake in the rotten fruits of prohibitionism for sure, but my question is, do you really believe that the talk of one can shine reflective light of any kind on the other? Yes, even for us lot, who usually give new meaning to ‘sous le radar’ even as we speak?
In case this is not the can of worms the doctor ordered, may I prescribe some music? I came upon this, and boy does this dude seem to mean it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0N8F21QBwk

Daniel

very catching

Christian

He first sang it in the band The Lovin’ Spoonful, in their album Do You Believe in Magic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b53EbA1NBRk

Michael Teare-Williams

“…the hive-mind of those for whom one nice media bite is as good as another”(!)
Dear Warbling, I wish I’d said that! You’re absolutely right and my previous remarks about the Thought Police, The New Puritan Age and the way things are going generally, may be seen to circulate around that good expression and several others that you made in your piece.
Yes, do we get angry at the cold, pragmatic b****** who is simply jumping on the populist band-wagon; or do we reserve our dislike for the raving looney who truly DOES believe that all paedosexuals are murdering-rapists?
Either way, the media will take a bet both ways and police will go on doing what they do… I mean, both of these ORGANS have to feed their kids, don’t they?
M T-W.

Daniel

Michael who are the Thought Police?

Michael Teare-Williams

Tom, when I read 1984, years ago, it might have been expected to depress me. I was, in fact, still struggling with my existence as a paedosexual. But it was the opposite, I realised that one great truth came out of my reading this strange book. Which was, that apart from extreme, illegal and very cruel chemical and/or electrical methods, no-one can mess with your dreams, thoughts, or your imagination?
No-one can ever tell you what to think, in fact. Your mind is the last great realm of freedom and it has no limits at all.
M T-W.

Daniel

Thats very interesting to me might consider give my two cents about that at some point

Michael Teare-Williams

Those who seek to say that only their grey, standardised, centralised viewpoint is correct?
WE miscreants who DARE to argue from a different perspective are not only a nuisance, but we are dangerous?
Mr and Mrs Milk-toast on the outside — but with bloody big, nasty teeth!
M T-W.

Ed Chambers

Thanks for the tune warbler.
I’s okay to disagree. I think it’s fair to say that media outlets are heavily influenced and controlled by the government system all over the world, very much so even in so called ‘Liberal Democracies of the West’. The truth is only simply a point of view, and if a government can maintain a general sense of reality for the populous in a country using tv and newspapers, they will do so, rightly wrongly, morally sound or otherwise. People are easier to handle that way if this ‘harmony’ exists. Topics to do with terrorism, drugs and paedophilia are very much reported in a negative or certain light so I think it’s fair to group them together to demonstrate this bias. When do you ever hear of the good terrorist who carried out their duties without killing anyone? The happy drug dude who works hard to cater for his family? And the pedophile that works in a primary school but ‘doesn’t diddle the kids’? I am sure these people exist, based on the law of averages, and my opinion that there is no black and white, only grey areas, but we will never know of these stories in the press.
As far as terrorism is concerned, at the moment it’s very much an ISIS theme isn’t it, with all the sauce on the side. With that being said, it wasn’t too long ago when the IRA were the scum of the earth, and they kept fighting until they had the promise of a say in a shared parliament etc (imo Ireland should be ONE country and in no part British). They had a cause, they fought for it, were willing to lay down their lives for it, and I respect that. I don’t condone the loss of life, but that was from both sides. If you were in Ireland, I suspect the sympathies were with the IRA on the whole (in the press), and vice versa if one was British.
Touching back on the IS issues in the middle east, that’s best part of 4000 miles away from us, and for the most part we only have western biased media to rely on for information, and this invariably tends to try and affect us in a way that denigrates all IS as blood loving criminals who have no respect for human life. If one looks at the history of the middle east, it’s tricky to say the least. However, one only has to go back to the so called Gulf conquests of Bush Snr and Dubya to understand that a large part of why ISIS came to fruition in the first place was the larger geographical area being royally rogered in the name of WMD that were never found, oil and gas exploitation, and nation building using (for the most part) corrupt US companies. When you refer to modern day terrorists as murdering thugs, would you include the British and US armed forces in that, or is what they do ok because the politicians give them a mandate that is ‘legitimate’? So, certainly in respect to the issue of Islamic fundamentalism in the middle east, one could understand the backlash in this respect. I maintain that one man’s terrorist, is another man’s freedom fighter.
As for a war on drugs, if people want to buy drugs that is their business. The governments of the world should decriminalise drugs, subject all substances to quality control, and tax it. There would be far less deaths owing to better gear, better understanding of the cultures of people who use drugs of their choice, far less profits (if any at all) for people operating on the black market, and people who would otherwise be regarded as deviant malfactors helped to live good lives whilst snorting their snout of choice.
My views on intergenerational relationships and child sexuality have been extrapolated here on Tom’s blog, even if my views continue to evolve.
In answer to your question Mr T, it’s very much a reflection on how society chooses to paint finely nuanced scenarios and behaviours as black and white, without giving them the space for unbiased discussion that these things merit. I think these three topics all shine equally bright in this respect. One can look at one topic and find many similarities with the two others regarding how society in general will always promote ‘the’ way to consider this topic with all other considerations cast aside.

Ed Chambers

Ps whatever happened to Lynsey Ashford? Any news anyone? Would be interesting to know…..I am in the planning stages of a project and keen to learn of reliable people who are, like me, of not afraid of going against the grain…..

Daniel

do u want 2 be an out like nigel oldfield

Daniel

according to evil unvailed he (ashford) was working with tod nickerson raising money for some childrens charity (cant remember wat it was) and wen the charity found out they had the attraction sent them the money back another missed opportunity to help children being abused, which is a contradiction in wat they claim to support in my book.

Ed Chambers

I’ve seen Lynsey’s interviews, I thought he did well and remained well composed for the most part under some difficult questioning. I also read about his work with Todd Nickerson, although this was some time ago now.
As for being like Nigel Oldfield, not quite. I think you’ll find my history on the MAP scene is only quite recent, but nevertheless I don’t need to be like anyone, it speaks for itself. Perhaps you should look through Tom’s blogs, they are educational and informative, and not so long back he very kindly published a guest blog of mine :
https://tomocarroll.wordpress.com/2018/01/01/a-wild-ride-towards-self-acceptance/
Alternatively you could visit my facebook page, for now my only, skeletal, presence on social media :
https://www.facebook.com/ed.chambers.3194
I was a member of Virped over a year before Todd jumped on the gravy train, at which point the seeds of disillusionment had already been sown after my first television appearance.
Anyway, what goes around comes around.

Daniel

yes ive watched the ch4 documentary today and i bet it was difficult for you and the survivor to get together and im glad u both got on as well as you both did.

Libertine

Lindsay Ashford was on a documentary in 2008 with Dr Tanya Byron called ‘Am I normal’, That was the first pro-pedo talk that I had heard; It seemed radical, But as you said, he was composed. But as for her, she was unprofessional and emotive, but what do you expect. I remember in his other interviews that he was a world traveller, And he’d been to south America etc, So he could be anywhere. He did say that he may stop his activism.

Daniel

is there a website for MAP scene u sed

Libertine

There is here.

Ed Chambers

….a very good place to start and continue. There are also a number of forums best accessed via / based on TOR….use a VPN and TOR / TAILS…..you will find the index board via a search engine called ‘Not Evil’. Pretty sure I can’t name the index board here for a variety of reasons…..the community is strong….

bjmuirhead

I have (finally) watched The Paedophile Next Door. As a documentary, it certainly plays to the party line, and I have to add that I don’t think I’ve heard anyone quite so shallowly stupid as Sarah Goode.It’s been interesting reading youir comments and post, but any more comment needs another watch of the doco and another read of your post.

Ed Chambers

Also in response to Daniel’s comment about meeting McFadyen :
I met Goode only once. She didn’t say much but had a barely concealed look of horror and bemusement in her eyes. Maybe horror is a strong word but I make my point. I had to check that my brains were not leaking from my nose, and I checked my arm pits for body odour in case I ponged. No. It was because I am pedo.
I actually felt sorry for Ian McFadyen, not because he regarded himself as having been abused all those many times, but because he had very much been taken in by the SJW’s, particularly so after the release. There were a couple of things that struck me as odd about the man. Firstly, he said that ‘ten years ago he’d’ve probably tried to kill me’. This puzzled me as I’d never harmed him in anyway. If he did try, he’d probably bite off a lot more than he could chew and would almost inevitably choke on it. It was a difficult meeting, but if I’d offered the ponce out on camera, which is not my style, things would’ve bombed like a Stuka….obviously….
The other thing that I have thought about from time to time is of all those occasions he had sex with those men, did he honestly not enjoy it each and every time? Whilst I sat on the bench with him and chatted, I could imagine him enjoying at least a few of the occasions. Why else would he then go on to make a career out of it? For sure, some of it must’ve been difficult to handle at times. No doubt he does have nightmares. Don’t we all (?).
As for Sarah Forsythe, I did feel genuinely sorry for her. She was too upset by her interview with Humphries to meet me. However, I also wondered how much of her story / feelings about what happened to her was influenced by therapists and police officers. She went on to work in the sex industry, so again, I beg to ask, were there never any occasions when she didn’t enjoy the attentions of her father, or working in Amsterdam?
I only bring this to light as I simply do not believe, as far as multiple occurrences are concerned at least, that black and white exist. We will never know, as even if either of these protagonists did disclose enjoyment, it’ll never be aired.

bjmuirhead

To begin with McFadyen and Forsythe: We have no choice, as far as I can see, but to accept what they now say. They may well have enjoyed some of the contact, but that is not how they remember it.
This isn’t necessarily a good thing, but that is what we are left with in the absence of their “abusers”.
For me, this comes down to a matter of how much did they know about sex at the time? Did they play with themselves and/or others besides the adults? Were they really as powerless as they now believe that they were? Did they actually enjoy at least some of the contact, and now feel a deep, lasting guilt?
These, and other questions, are unlikely to be answered, except in our imagination, though suicide suggests bad things about the events—and that is the way the “public” will take it.
Lastly, his statement that he would have wanted to kill you ten years ago. You suggest that you don’t know why, but of course you do: to him, you were/are the living instantiation of all that had caused his pain. And, I repeat, his pain is not something we have the right to question, especially when we remember Hume’s comment that it is not unreasonable to prefer the destruction of the world to the pain of stubbinig our big toe. (Something like that.) His pain is something he has to deal with, whether it is justified or not. That he only says that he would have wanted to kill you suggests that he is dealing with his pain slowly, but effectively.
And, in respect of both of them, we don’t know that we have the whole story, because we do not know what parts of their stories they may have held back.
Erring on the side of caution is best here, because we all know that there are men and women who do properly abuse children in most unpleasant ways.

bjmuirhead

Damn. Apologies for the spaghetti, without sauce.

Michael Teare-Williams

Daniel, I believe that you have hit the nail on its head with that expression ‘career suicide’!
When I was first arrested in 1993, I struggled with the idea of rational people living in a mad, paedophobic society. I KNEW they were out there! They still are?
Yet, in ‘93, I thought that, if you were to get a hundred of those reasonable, balanced, educated people in a room and extoll your views on paedosexuality, then ask them if they agreed with even ONE of your ideas, there would be a deafening silence.
Why? Well, for ordinary citizens, agreeing with A SINGLE heretical idea would be social suicide.
For a medical professional, the same act would be professional suicide.
You’re absolutely right, Cantor simply cannot recant!
Horrible pun, sorry! M T-W.

Daniel

hundreds of thousands in the same boat mate

Ed Chambers

You’re right Michael, the Cant won’t recant, but I wish he’d decant…..

Dissident

Too many people, unfortunately, believe that you must cater to the orthodoxy and, to some extent, tell them what they want to hear rather than try to change what they want to hear, in order to foster progress. This is the tactic adopted by Virped, and it’s problematic to say the least, since whatever progress it may allow comes with a hefty price tag on it.

Ed Chambers

Well said, I discovered this the hard way. Virped sold out when their philosophy was created, an appeasement of similar fashion to the likes of Macmillan with Hitler.

Ed Chambers

Maybe…probably…rightly or wrongly (I suppose the latter), I thought this was the case, according to ‘The Darkest Hour’….

Ed Chambers

Lol….that’s the one……..

Ed Chambers

I had also written ‘ground hopefully opening up beneath me’ inside ‘greater than, less than’ symbols but it appears that does not work….

Michael Teare-Williams

Well said, Ed Chambers!
You have managed to comment on most of the things that I have raged about, but in a much more graceful and balanced manner.
The dreaded Thought Police are going great guns in Australia, as you may know from items of international news. It is a great place to live, if you can take the summer humidity and Oz certainly looks after its military veterans, for which I’m very thankful.
Having said that, nearly all of the really bad things that happen in the US will eventually happen here. Except their gun-laws!
M T-W.

Ed Chambers

> Graceful and balanced
Thanks! This is progress, something I have been working on. In the past I’ve been somewhat like a bull in a fight.
I’d like to visit Oz one day, although I am not sure they would let me in. Canadian officials only let me in after grilling me for half and hour, and that was after they’d phoned my sponsor.
I was a fan of Casey Stoner whilst he was still racing on two wheels, as well as the legend who is Mick Doohan.
Back on topic, you are right MTW. The prospect of social / career suicide is a sad phenomena, explained by the herd mentality, very much the reason why civilisation finds itself in a bit of a pickle on so many fronts.
I am very much against child abuse, however, I’m pro intergenerational relationships. As all of the latter have been labelled under the former, people have been blindsided into thinking black and white.

Michael Teare-Williams

Motorbikes! I’m sure that Shakespeare’s boys would have loved them! M T-W.

E.

Tom Grauer speaks about BoyLove:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odE3204AkPw

Christian

Again, Tom Grauer shows himself a selfish man, only preoccupied with the interests (sexual or otherwise) of people of his kind, that is, ephebophilic heterosexual adult males; similarly, on his now-defunct blog, he defended rape and sexual slavery, assuming of course that the victims are female (he would not want to be raped or enslaved himself).
On his YouTube channel, through several videos he tells that the CIA, with the help of the Mossad and Shin Beth, wants to assassinate him for his “male sexualist” views. Really, if the CIA wanted to kill him, it would just do it without telling him in advance.
He thinks himself an important person, like a leader of a movement.
For all his “male sexualist” talk, he fails to denounce the main harm done to male sexuality in his own country: all Israeli infant boys are circumcised, without their consent, of course.
He is a crackpot, and nobody should promote his talks.

Nada

Again, Tom Grauer shows himself a selfish man, only preoccupied with the interests (sexual or otherwise) of people of his kind,
In that department, he can’t hold a candle to the likes of Dan Savage.
So why pretend otherwise?
he fails to denounce the main harm done to male sexuality
Assumes, without evidence, that circumcision is more harmful to male sexuality than the restrictions, targeted by Grauer, which boys did not consent to having rammed down their throats from a very early age.

Dissident

Did you, perchance, try to sneak in a bawdy pun there, Nada?

Daniel

my attraction between 12 and 20 (only minor attraction at 10) and my idea of a date would be (apart from the phsyical) to go to fredricks ice cream parlor and eat loads of ice cream play on the swing at the park, play with eeyore and be friends forever cos grown ups suck they are boring.

Daniel

lol

Daniel

drop dead fread was a great film a relationship should be just like that

Daniel

“its time to play burglars real burglars”

Tom Grauer

Stop lying. I 100% denounce circumcision.

Explorer

Daily Antifeminist is back, now on YouTube? Well, let’s see for how long he will remain there until being banned (which, I suspect, is very likely, if not almost inevitable)…

Ed Chambers

Tom Grauer has some very good points to make from time to time, but he has a bad habit of clouding this by mixing it with a substantial measure of detritus. For me, I find it hard to keep track of whether or not he’s being genuine and sincere, or provocative and troll like. He does not serve himself well in this respect, or any of the causes he claims to supports. I look forward to a time when he can prove himself consistent, clear and sincere. With all this being said, it is good to see him alive and well.
Thanks for the guest blog MTW, I can’t say I was ever a fan of Shakespeare, as one tends to need to have some degree of education in his work to understand it’s value, and whilst the man who taught me English was also a very good Rugby coach, I thought he was a cock spanner when it came to extolling the virtues of the baird.
I like some of the Hollywood interpretations of his work, whether or not this is a good thing I don’t know. Maybe it’s something I will become more interested in as time goes by and the grey hairs become ever more numerous.
I can see how the historical culture of boys playing female roles is of particular interest to boylovers….

Michael Teare-Williams

Dear Ed Chambers,
There are thousands of different interpretations of Shakespeare and most of them are valid and if people enjoy them then, why should I complain?
But you are right: the original all-male tradition is of major interest to boy-lovers; but should be as well to people who love the study of the in-between, the androgyne, and the magic that could happen on the Elizabethan stage. It wasn’t just bawdry. There was sheer fun and deep mystery and much love. The boys were known by name and were enthusiastically followed.
The example of Saloman Pavy, who died when he was just thirteen is a case in point. He was so hugely famous that he eulogised by Ben Jonson, no less.
I am tolerant to the modern tradition in the same way that I view English itself as a constantly evolving language. Even though my own method of expression might seem old-fashioned and impossibly stuffy, this is mainly because I am 80!
Yet I have no objection to modern methods of expression and have very much enjoyed watching William Shakespeare’s history plays in film form over the years.
By the way, I love that expression ‘cock spanner’! Hey-hee!
M T-W.

Libertine

Did you once call yourself ‘Linca’ in the blogosphere?

Michael Teare-Williams

No, never heard of Linca, sorry… M T-W.

Daniel

damm right, i was sexually abused as a child and even i can see how much the age of consent is a waste of time but sadly our politicans are making money from our survival of the thickest, i didnt like being abused but like most children i was a sexual being and should have had the right to sexual/intermate relationship with a partner of my choice who i was sexually attracted to and also should have had the propper education in order to make that decision and the choice to vote would of also help build up my self confidance

Michael Teare-Williams

You are quite right, Daniel. In my rush to condemn the puritanical, moral-reactionary cretins, I do sometimes forget about the kids who do receive unwelcome, or even violent attention. They should have a voice?
I suggest that, in a world where far greater latitude was given to THEIR volition, they would have? A boy or a girl who could say yes, could also say NO?
OK, the violent ‘takers’ are never going to listen, but for most reasonable people; the idea that every kid has a mind of her/his own will be a lesson in restraint and condign behaviour SHOULD follow?
As I have said elsewhere: at my boarding grammar school, sex between boys was easy to come by, so rape was redundant. In my years there, only one senior boy actually forced a junior boy and he, the senior boy, was beaten up so severely that he had to leave.
M T-W.

Daniel

you dont need to feel bad mate yes at the time it was horrible but it was 18 years ago and no longer feel any real trauma and its not like i was exposed to long term abuse and i have no desire to sensationlise it because i feel that i would be insulting victims who have had it a lot worse than me and unfortunatly we do have or should i say legally considered victims who try to make out that they are traumatised when it was consensual (not very pc thing to say but true) and they absolutly piss me off and im happy to say as a genuine case i am not one of those people.

Michael Teare-Williams

Yes, Daniel, it grieves me to say so, but I agree that there are a great many people out there who are crying ‘rape’ and I suggest that they are primarily hoping for money, where no real harm was done.
I mean, if your life is not going well, it is so easy to blame a childhood sexual happening for everything that has gone wrong? And there are legions of ‘victimologists’ out there to cheer the ‘victim’ on?
As well as the police… For them, successful convictions mean promotion. Truth? What’s that?
All this leaves the genuine victim as devalued coin? Very sad.
M T-W.

Daniel

well sed

Dissident

Agreed!

Ed Chambers

Daniel, I’m sorry you were abused as a child, but I’m more happy for you that you have been able and determined not to let this spoil your life. Many people are not able to get past this abuse, or let society stigmatise them with prejudice for life.
I met a woman a couple of years ago in Barcelona, whilst I was in exile, and she had been irrevocably damaged as a result of being violently raped on a number of occasions between the age of 6 and 12. It broke my heart to see the results of this. It is very sad, but what is equally sad, perhaps more so, is that those young people who experience events they regard as positive are pressured and brain washed into believing that what has occurred has been abusive. This are both crimes in my view, but society only recognises the former as such.
Of course, society will press forward to make sure every inter-generational encounter of a sexual nature is painted in the worst light, abusive and damaging but of course they are not, in much the same way as our kind are painted to be violent abusers of children, who hang around streets near schools, and wear dirty mackintosh over coats.
Glad you are doing ok now.

Daniel

i understand your sympathetic intentions but im not on here for sympathy votes im here to face the reality of the dark side of the sex world and how some ppl are effected worse than others and unlike some paedophile hunters and some vigilanties, i want to look outside the box and look at abuse on the level of severity and how we need to look at how to protect children from that kind of abuse

Ed Chambers

Whilst you are not here for sympathy, something I had never alluded to in anyway, anyone who was genuinely abused (ie someone not coerced by a therapist or police psychologist into believing any positive sexual relationship was abusive) has my sympathy. Like it or not, it is as it is.
> unlike some paedophile hunters and some vigilanties, i want to look outside the box and look at abuse on the level of severity and how we need to look at how to protect children from that kind of abuse
It’s a brave thing to think outside the box these days, so that’s great….however….does this mean you are a paedophile hunter / vigilante…..?

Daniel

no, i am someone who has been abused who knows the score

Daniel

i see helping survivors as like if two men wer in hospital and one had a broken arm and the other was critical which patient would u treat 1st

Daniel

(the harmful abuse

Daniel

i think that some hunters do it cos they really think they are helping to abolish sexual offending and others see it as an entertainment industry

Daniel

As well as intermacy i think that children should have the legal and democratic right to vote or at least deserve the right to some kind of fair trial in the voting process because ie my younger reletives (ages 12 to 15) are very good at maths in fact a million time better then me so with the right education and as long as they put the effort to do the research who they believe will represent them well would that be a bad idea

Michael Teare-Williams

Yes indeed, Daniel!
Political responses from competent, though very young voters might put a rocket up the a**** of some of the fat, comfortable pollies who currently infest our parliaments.
Perhaps they might think twice about continually buying votes by increasing prison sentences — just so Mr Milktoast MP can be re-elected?
Kids will have the sense to see what they are doing, even if no-one else does?
M T-W.

Jack

>>medical research is clear that although the physical size of a boy of four centuries ago was less, actual history will demonstrate that this mental maturity must have been much greater than his modern equivalent
I’ve always wondered about this. It’s well reported that boys used to hit puberty two or three years later, and you’re suggesting something that’s never been made clear. That a boy’s overall physical development was in sync with this later puberty. I’ve sometimes speculated that the rather big strapping lads appearing on the ancient Greek vases may have been at an earlier stage of sexual development – ie, a boy we may recognise as 16 in overall physical proportions, is in fact only just starting puberty. But you seem to be suggesting the overall physical and sexual development would be in sync, while his mental development leaps ahead…it’s interesting that the post-Industrial Revolution approach to adolescence – stuffing it in a sock and letting it moulder on into the early thirties – was supposedly designed to allow greater mental development through education. Signs right now are that we have it totally arse about.
Cleopatra…
“…I shall see
Some squeaking Cleopatra boy my greatness
I’ th’ posture of a whore.”
— this remains one of my favourite lines in Shakespeare. Many poets have done fine things with the peerless word “boy”, but of course the Bard once again takes the prize, creating a startling, outrageous, hilarious, touching little psychodrama of global proportions. But, Cleopatra, what a role! The best modern tip I’ve ever heard for the role of Cleopatra is Tina Turner…but Tina as a cocksure 16 year old boy? You can ALMOST see it.
I’ve seen some vids of Shakespeare productions put on at the recreated Globe Theatre – and watching the demure, modern audiences respectfully standing about – it provokes one into attempting to imagine the huge ENERGY that must have been present in that wild unruly Elizabethan shack – energy the actors had to both feed off, collar, and return… one needs a Shakespearean imagination to do it justice.
The greatness of Shakespeare’s female characters has always been recognised – but he also wrote for his actors. So were these great female leads written in spite of the boys playing the roles (as modern productions make explicit), or, if JZ Eglinton is right and the sonnets were directed to a boy actor, was the master-mistress of his passion part of the impetus behind the unparalleled universality of his imagination…maybe he rode that boy-rocket to eternity where he dealt the eternal forms like playing cards at a bawdy poker night.
I’ve always enjoyed pondering such things, so your thesis was quite a treasure trove. I don’t mean to twist the knife, but…sheesh, you do have the material for a fine general-public book, fiction or non-fiction.

Michael Teare-Williams

Thank you again, Jack!
Several points that you make about the relative size and maturity of the Renaissance boy are valid. I am simply using guesswork in saying that both the standards of nutrition and the generally accepted later onset of puberty would probably have ensured a smaller 14 or 16-year-old boy than his modern counterpart. Yet I do accept that the later-onset puberty idea has been challenged. Even so, it is my own gut-feeling that these young people would have appeared very small when acting surrounded by the adult male actors in the troupe. This juxtaposition of size/power, or size/brilliance being explained, above, and one of the authors favourite dramatic devices.
And yes, it was the ‘squeaking Cleopatra boy’ that first hit me in the face at school! Then later, reading the attempts of the editors of the various editions of the play, in their sometimes awkward efforts to explain what is, in the modern view, an impossibly opaque remark. In fact, it is metatheatrical comment in its purist form. You could say, William himself was causing his boy actor to so faithfully represent a tragic queen before her death, in mourning the possible future lampooning of her earthly, regal dignity by a boy whose voice was just about to change. I must die, she she cries, but must I be be mocked, thereafter?
M T-W.

Jack

>>This juxtaposition of size/power, or size/brilliance being explained, above, and one of the authors favourite dramatic devices.
Yes, so is it odd he never explored the beautiful boy persona in his plays? Kept him safely tucked away in the sonnets and pastorals. Where’s William Shakespeare’s Hadrian and Antinous? Even the business of keeping it within the bounds of acceptability would have been a spur, I’d have thought – and surely another area where he could have outdone Christopher Marlowe.
There are some nice boy moments in Shakespeare – Brutus and Lucius in Julius Caesar, Hubert and Arthur in King John, etc., but they’re always exercises in Victorian sentimentality rather than the more vigorous pyrotechnics underlying the sonnets or Venus and Adonis – a phenomenon that, one suspects, wasn’t unknown in Elizabethan life (particularly the theater).
Why wasn’t Friar Lawrence man enough to engage with Romeo’s wild and whirling passions, rather than playing the dithering handmaiden to a needless tragedy?
It seems Shakespeare wasn’t inspired to explore the great mythological drama of the beautiful boy in his plays, and I reckon the reason would be more artistic than societal.

Michael Teare-Williams

I think the answer is, Jack, that Shakespeare saw the boy in his plays as a maddening, yet funny androgyne, and possibly based each character upon the nature of his real young actors; while his poetic boy was a real person, whom he also knew well outside the theatre? The figure in Sonnet 126: “O thou my lovely boy”, tore at his heart; while Maria from Twelfth Night and several other comedic examples. were meant mainly to cause laughter and devilment?
It is certain that his plays were his bread and butter; while his poetry was what he was most serious about. Maybe the “lovely boy” was one of his apprentice actors, so there we would have the cross-over between the sacred and the profane, to coin a phrase!
Shakespeare was a married man with children of his own, like me, but then so are so many of our ilk. Yet clear in my mind is that the great poet also loved boys in a tender, smiling way — the gamin/gamine of his plays — and that real boy outside the theatre?
Just a theory, mind! M T-W.

Jack

I’ve scoured the internet for Shakespeare productions featuring boys, but, alas, they don’t exist. Certainly, Mike, your thesis is the next best thing. The descriptions of the subtle – as well as vulgar – riffing on gender, androgynous beauty, etc. were quite magnificent – I’d always suspected I missed half the jokes – now I realise I missed three-quarters! In the hands of an expert boy, sex and gender and beauty start to blur like some over-excited quantum phenomenon, irresolvable until randomly fixed by an avid observer’s gaze. And the portrait you painted of a typical boy star of the time – for me, that was the highlight: it finally added some meat to what had formerly been a fairly vague hint of a bone…
What about in a play like Othello? Would an older boy be expected to take on such a demanding and serious role? (Although I think Desdemona is supposed to be quite young, around 14?) I’ve often thought a talented boy actor in that role would make it as unbearable as it would be unmissable. And instead of the mercurial androgynous humour, there would instead be an unavoidable undercurrent of Greek love – particularly as the boys are so well known as boys.
I wish today’s Puritans would at least fulminate like Phillip Stubbes – goddamn! it’s hard not to get a little hot and bothered reading his stuff – My kingdom for a lothsome sink of carnall affection! Instead today we get the bloodless sterile drone of technocratic jargon – not a boot in the face forever but an endlessly boring dentist drill.
It’s interesting that once females are allowed on the stage, boys seem automatically to exit (pursued by a bitch?). Why couldn’t both productions have prospered? It’s almost as though without a valid excuse, an imposed structure, it quickly becomes unseemly or unacceptable for boys to dress up as women. From tribal culture on, societies have generally recognised the need to create deliberately demarcated spaces dedicated to the unique talents of boys. Of course, that was in dark old days when savages apparently believed it was a good thing if a boy became a man.

Michael Teare-Williams

Thank you, Jack!
Addressing Desdemona, it is tempting to think that an older boy took such a tragic role. And perhaps Cleopatra? Yet, as I point out, medical research is clear that although the physical size of a boy of four centuries ago was less, actual history will demonstrate that this mental maturity must have been much greater than his modern equivalent? So, a 16-year-old Elizabethan boy could have been that Desdemona, that Cleopatra, that dramatic Portia — and could shone like a jewel among the towering men upon the stage?
And yes, we are now in the second Puritan Age. Well said. M T-W.

Daniel

Michael wat do u mean be second in “puritan age”

Michael Teare-Williams

Daniel, the first Puritan Age was, historically, after the Parliamentary Army under Oliver Cromwell defeated the Royalists in the late 1640s and eventually executed Charles the First. There followed several years that are variously known as the Interregnum, or the Republic, during which there was no theatre and very little singing and dancing. Plain dress and strict church-going was rigidly enforced. Permissible sex was man, woman, missionary-position — and God help anyone who thought or acted differently…
When I say that that the Second Puritan Age has arrived, I say that many of the characteristics of the first exist in the second. The drive absolutely to control action and even thought in the individual. Censorship, consisting of heavy punishments for people possessing images, even imaginative art-works and self-composed stories are seen as a form of heresy and are subject to the law and therefore punishment.
During the 90s, I was denigrated in court for having written to a friend that “…we are now ten years past 1984 and still we have no Thought Police”. I was, of course, commenting on George Orwell’s dystopian, prophetic novel, 1984. The bloody-minded police and the prosecutor wanted the court to see how wicked I was, just for having THOUGHTS that did not conform to their sub-fusc orthodoxy. Happily, the judge very smartly put them right and damned them for trying to condemn me for my thoughts, rather than my actions, but it struck me then how utterly constrained anyone with half a brain is in this age if he or she is also sexually unorthodox.
M T-W.

Daniel

yes i have a rough idea of who the puratians wer and i get it now,

Peter Herman

Are you trying to turn us on?

Michael Teare-Williams

Perhaps, Peter!
Anything to remove the modern custom of simply ignoring the all-male tradition. Even some of the highest profile scholars and performers of our age simply find it convenient to ignore the age and gender, therefore the physical stature of Shakespeare’s women.
I do grant that the original custom would be impossible to reproduce in these morally-fragile times, but scholars write huge books of Shakespeare and barely mention the boys — or the the difference the lack of them now makes in our modern versions of the poet’s plays.
M T-W.

Peter Herman

A Cross-Dressing Story
Years ago I worked as a counselor of young teenage boys in a social work oriented camp. Counselors were paid extra to attend seminars on becoming social workers. Thank goodness I never became one.
The novelty of this camp was that the campers were to plan and design their own activities. This was not quite the reality.
One day, word from above was that there was to be a campfire around an international theme. The boys from various bunks were to choose a nationality and design costumes around their chosen land. Somewhat cynically, the young teens in my group, absolutely not influenced by me, chose Hawaii with hula skirts as their costumes. When the camp’s director heard about that particular choice he immediately nixed it. I protested that, traditionally, Hawaiian men did indeed wear hula skirts, but the social work imbued director insisted that the boys’ sexual identities were still too fragile to don anything appearing feminine.
This was before LGBT and all that. I suppose the boys in my charge were spared becoming namby pambies and have become truly masculine men. Unfortunately, bullshit mental health notions on sexuality to this day still pass as science.

Michael Teare-Williams

I shore up your exasperation with such concerns, Peter. When I was in the prison, the entirely unqualified counsellors of the Sex Offender Treatment Programme were still teaching: ‘paedophilia is learned behaviour’!
Did I say teaching? Neither of these females had so much as a diploma in anything, let alone a degree. Yet they had the power to pontificate to a group of ten men, three of whom had university degrees… The nonsense those women spouted and they didn’t even have the sense to delete their references — many of which were dated from 40s and 50s USA.
Not that I mean to imply that references from the UK or Australia in those dim dark ages would have been any more enlightened. From my point of view, their offence was that they were lecturing me on something they clearly knew nothing about. On the other hand, I had lived with my feelings and thoughts since I had been fourteen
Their implacable power lay in the fact that they could bar a person’s parole. Which, at that time, consisted of a third of that person’s total sentence. In my case, that wasn’t much, but in the cases of some of my ‘classmates’ it added up to years in prison.
As for the views of those counsellors, this savours of much that is dodgy about people who rely on psychobabble rather than common sense? Those kids would almost certainly have had some riotous fun in hula skirts — and perhaps the odd individual might have found himself/herself in their rather wild personae? A sort of truth-finding epiphany? How could that be wrong?
M T-W.

sean

÷÷÷Those kids would almost certainly have had some riotous fun in hula skirts — and perhaps the odd individual might have found himself/herself in their rather wild personae? ÷÷
oh that is so exactly true!

Daniel

michael you sed that the people in the treatment programmes told u it was a learned behavior how long ago was that and to me sounds like a contridiction cos according to loose women they are telling the media that ppl “dont choose to be like this” and i am refaering to the youtube video wer tom has suggested robots of children

Michael Teare-Williams

Daniel, this was in 1998. An absurdly late time for such an silly notion?
The people in the group were patronised in the same way that children are patronised. It was almost as though they wanted simply annoy us, but our ‘lecturers’ were so earnest that it turned out as simply sad, boring and very annoying.
As I said before, they had the power to with-hold our parole, so we all simply agreed with everything they said!
M T-W.

Daniel

and yet another god knows how many other potentionally abuse children left with no wer to go just gos to show no gives a shit about real child abuse including the general public themselves and that includes the pollies that make a fortune from it

Daniel

Hi tom just wondering if you got my new email/messege

Michael Teare-Williams

Dear Tom,
We mainly did sketches from Shakespeare — short excepts — that really were very close to the original tradition. Though I have no idea what was in the minds of our masters/mistresses as far as the old all-male custom was concerned; I can remember a lot of back-stage tension and excitement.
Did I subliminally hoists aboard my feelings for the original all-male tradition from these experiences? Probably. I can remember our brilliant English teacher telling us that boys had indeed taken the women’s parts, so we all of us went it those plays with our eyes wide open and it was obvious that a lot of fun was to be had.
Me, I was rather glad to be too plain to be chosen to play a girl, and too tall. I also had a lousy memory for lines, so I ended up shifting scenery and peeping up the ‘girls’ skirts — some of whom had me completely confused — but in the best possible way!
Yet mainly I owe my sensitivity to the lexis in the plays to moving around the country after my restless mother. I was enrolled in private, and then state schools and was surrounded by a dozen different local dialects. Some of the words, or their cognates, simply translated themselves for me in my later studies of the great poet.
Thank you Tom, for your input. M T-W.

Michael Teare-Williams

At my first (day) grammar school, I had a stroke of great good fortune. My teacher was one Mr Wilson — aka ‘sir’. He was as mad as a cut-snake, as we say in OZ, but a completely inspirational teacher. It wasn’t until years later that I began to read his books and discovered that this madman’s published name was Anthony Burgess.
At my second (boarding) grammar school, my teacher was also brilliant. I’ll call her Mrs Crow to protect her identity! She was tiny, yet she could walk into a classroom full of huge, spotty youths and achieve absolute order in seconds.
Some feat. In this, she was an echo of the first Elizabeth, perhaps? Which was at least partly responsible for me thinking of the relatively small heroines who dominated the stages of the Elizabethan age. After all, the boys with unbroken voices who played the girls in our sketches were always juniors and the other players were always older and much bigger.
The custom was, at that ancient school, that when you wished to speak, you didn’t raise your hand, you rose from your seat. When asking questions about the plays we were doing, Mrs Crow said ‘Sit down Williams’ so often that Sit-down Williams became my nick-name until I left to join the R.A.F…
As I said, by some mysterious means, I had the de-code to those obscurities and I delighted in them.
M T-W.

Jack

>>was knocked out by Earthly Powers.
I think there’s a law that one isn’t allowed to mention Earthly Powers without quoting its justly famous first sentence…
“It was the afternoon of my eighty-first birthday, and I was in bed with my catamite when Ali announced that the archbishop had come to see me.”

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