Hail, brave warrior, Nigel the Noble!

The proudly defiant motto of former chemistry teacher Nigel Oldfield’s OSC website is “Always winning”. The mission statement is “Enabling the rights, legal entitlements and safety of all, regardless of history”. A glance at the topics covered reveals that minor attraction is clearly a major concern.
It is ironic, then, that the most recent report at OSC is about someone losing, not winning; someone whose rights have not been enabled and who has plainly been unsafe. It is a post telling us about a registered sex offender, injured when he was attacked at work with a hammer, being denied entitlement to workers’ compensation benefits.
Even more ironic is the latest news, which is about Nigel himself. You’ll find it in the Daily Mail but not at OSC. The Mail reported last week that around 100 people gathered outside his home near Rotherham after learning that this “convicted paedophile” had been living in the neighbourhood for 18 months. The mob “smashed down doors and ransacked the rented property before police were alerted and drove the 54-year-old away”, eye-witnesses reportedly said.
In the Mail’s version, unsurprisingly, this violent mob were merely local parents worried about their children. The legitimacy of their action was implicitly endorsed by quoting a local witness:  “The disgrace is not the public disorder but the fact that we were never told this man was living in the area.” The Mail admitted that Nigel had been attacked in the course of a five-hour siege, but played down the violence, saying he had not needed hospital treatment.
According to a detailed report, though, by Bernie Najarian on Boychat, a local freelance photographer tweeted a photo of him with a bloody nose; others reported on social media that Nigel had been seen in the A&E department of a local hospital soon after the fracas. There are hints he may have been hounded while he was there, too, and perhaps attacked a second time.
As for Oldfield the man, Najarian reported that he

“…had never touched a child sexually. He also claimed steadfastly online that he was not a pedophile, based on the clinical definition. Nonetheless, he had earned himself a multi-year membership on the sex offenders’ registry in Britain in 2002, after he’d gone on a spree of depression-fuelled image downloading, 11,000 images in all, of which a handful were considered legally actionable. After doing 15 months of prison time and realizing he was now all but unemployable in the mean streets of de-industrialized Britain, he emerged with the idea that the punishment didn’t fit the crime. He became an online activist and gadfly, sparring with the political leaders of the abuse victim movement and insisting that an image was information, not a person.”

The Boychat report also linked to a 2012 edition of Jon Gaunt’s shock-jock phone-in radio show, on which Nigel was interviewed at some length. I listened to it. His handling of Gaunt’s baiting was nothing if not feisty. By no means would I endorse all that Nigel said. Nevertheless, I found myself warming to his you’re-not-gonna-bully-me combativeness. This pugnacious style, this “always winning” attitude, in the teeth of our many defeats as heretics in these terrible times, strikes me as admirable and inspiring.
And never was it more ballsy than in his reported reaction to the mob gathered at his home. Did he make himself scarce? Did he get the hell out of it or lock himself in the bathroom, as most of us would surely have tried to do?
No way! He came out fighting! Wielding “a length of wood”, presumably to defend himself, he sallied forth, taunting the crowd! Inevitably, he was then attacked; but even that failed to shut him up.  A witness was reported as saying “He must be used to getting a beating because I could hear him shouting ‘is that all you’ve got?’ ”
Is that all you’ve got! Incredible!!
While it may not be the most original retort, and definitely not a wise one, it is an undeniably plucky thing to say when you stand alone against a bunch of thugs who could pile in and kick your head off at any second.  So hail, brave warrior, Nigel the Noble!
According to Telegraph blogger Mic Wright, OSC  stands for Online Sex Offenders Community. He and others have dismissed it as a one-man band rather than any sort of community, with Wright himself saying “even some paedophiles consider him an embarrassment”. Likewise, the UK & Ireland database, an Anti site “profiling crimes against children”, badmouths him, saying “On GirlChat, he tries to portray himself as an expert on a wide variety of topics, but even his fellow paedophiles view him with disdain and contempt. His website, instead of being the scholarly repository of intellectual material he seems to think it is, is a tabloid style, narcissistic representation of what a crazed individual this man really is.”
I have no idea whether regulars on GirlChat would agree with this. As for the OSC website, it seems to comprise mainly links rather than blogs. Can mere links be “narcissistic”? Am I missing something?  Heretic TOC would not usually feature such a hostile opinion from a dubious source. As I have praised Nigel as brave, though – and it will take a lot of persuasion to shift me from that view – I feel I should make it clear my judgment is made in the full knowledge that other heretics may be less impressed.
I’d be interested to hear what you think. And Nigel, if you are reading this, by all means speak up for yourself here.
Actually, I have emailed him a couple of times in the last week without receiving any reply so far, just to ask how he is feeling after all this turmoil and to see if he needs any help. Getting a safe new place to live will doubtless be his top priority. It would be understandable if he has neither the time nor the taste for further public engagement just now. I do hope he is getting some sort of official help, if he needs it, for re-housing.
Of all people, I would be particularly remiss if I did not to show concern and offer assistance. Why me? Because only a month ago Nigel generously offered me a safe house – or what seemed a safe one at that time – after I had been subjected to a storm of online abuse and threats following my appearance on the Australian version of 60 Minutes.
Chief shit stirrer on that occasion was the odious arsonist, child-tormentor and self-righteous anti-paedophile sting artist Stinson Hunter. He and Chris Wittwer, who runs the UK & Ireland database linked above, both helped orchestrate the heat put on Nigel. In Wittwer’s case, according to Bernie Najarian’s report, this extended to “working closely with mob members stalking Oldfield” and posting a photograph of him in hospital. This was on the Saturday morning, following the fracas on Friday afternoon, which suggests he may have been kept in A&E overnight. If so, the Mail’s claim that he had not needed hospital treatment would seem wide of the mark. Najarian describes Wittwer as “the UK’s best known old-school anti-pedo vigilante”.
I should perhaps conclude by adding that after my solicitor returned from holiday a couple of days ago, I emailed him as to the practicability and wisdom of asking the police to investigate the online threats made against me. I referred to Nigel’s case as well, pointing out how online hostility, seemingly remote and ineffectual, can quickly lead to something much more serious once an address is in play. I expect to discuss the matter with him shortly.
Oh, yes, one more thing. I mentioned 60 Minutes. When I blogged about it in Pummelling the human face of paedophilia, I described the interview as a PR disaster, saying “I swear to shun the intoxicating liquor of publicity for ever – or at least until the next tempting but illusory opportunity comes along to promote an alternative narrative in the mainstream media.”
However, I am not so sure now that it was a disaster. Yes, it was a terrible interview. Yes, there was massive blowback, with intense hostility on the social media. Yes, many of those who watched the show would have been massively confirmed in their belief that we heretics are monsters.
On the other hand, most viewers of a sensationalist show like that would have already been entrenched in such a view. There was never going to be a chance of converting them, so no harm was done. As for the small open-minded minority who may have seen it, plus others who may have heard about the fuss without even viewing the programme, it seems there may be another story to tell.
The evidence is that since 60 Minutes aired, Heretic TOC has consistently become a much more visited site. Hits on the site have jumped up from an average of 200 per day last year to over 300 so far this year. On four consecutive days immediately after the broadcast, there were over 1000 hits per day, peaking at 1685 on 20 July. Most of these hits, I presume, were antis coming along to be disgusted. After getting their fix of nausea – or boredom when they couldn’t find anything very scandalous! – they didn’t return. For the last three weeks, though, hits have been running at nearly 500 per day. So this is beginning to look like a permanent rise of interest in Heretic TOC for which the only explanation (apart from an excellent recent guest blog by Lensman!) appears to be the exposure on Australian TV. OK, some of it will be antis, some could be cops, although the latter have presumably long been a presence.
My guess is that the attention has attracted the curiously open-minded along with the antis, plus sympathisers previously unaware of Heretic TOC’s existence. The old adage that no publicity is bad publicity may not be so far from the mark after all.

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[…] TOC ran a piece about him in 2015 titled Hail, brave warrior, Nigel the Noble! It will be plain enough from that article as to why he attracted vigilante ire and why I found his […]

Pete

Hi Tom, I recently had the honour, yes honour, to meet Nigel in person.
If there was anyone more wrongly maligned I would be surprised. What I found was a sort of gentle giant (he is tall and very strong, beating me at arm wrestling and told me about his martial arts training). He is no coward! And in the recent sting at his new home, he stayed indoors to protect his vulnerable partner. Yes, a grown woman!
Is he a narcissist? Not in a grandiose way, because such over-estimate their intelligence. Nigel *is* highly intelligent, well educated and trained in many things. And he knows it! Talking to him I found informative and inspiring, with no hint of those narcissistic smirks such show.
Nigel has become the punch bag for the sexual neuroses and psychoses of those who haven’t come to terms with their own minor attraction. They ‘deflect’ and ‘project’ on him.
In time, we will rewrite the story of Dr Nigel Oldfield. And I expect tens of thousands will hold their heads in shame for their disgusting lies about him.
Nigel, I salute you…

omnipolitics16

Damn Nigel, you are one insane individual. I only got info from evil unveiled about this guy, what did he do to make him have the term arrogant in the kind community? Also, what do you think of the site evil unveiled tom?

omnipolitics16

Dang, all well I can wait.

therealosc

Insane in a world of lunatics can be an advantage 😉

omnipolitics16

That is definitely true, especially when some of the lunatics are delusional.

Teleiophile Slayer

For all they defend pedophilia but then also defend this aberration called “teleiophilia”: The adultophilia and sex between adults is an aberration and a disease, the worst mistake a person can make in their life.
Sex between adults causes impotence and mental disorders, AIDS, herpes and hepatitis is spread only through human rodents called “teleiophiles”.
Pedophilia and hebephilia are the only effective cure to this disease, the adultophiles lie about that hebepedophilia is bad, the only goal is to turn all humans into adultophiles rodents to better manage them and enslave the human race whole.
In my humble opinion, sex between adults should be punished by death. The adultophiles are the demons of the Bible, God hates teleiophiles. That is why religious people are prone to pedophilia, religion is our salvation, loyalty to a new religion to crush teleiophilic garbage!
All people what hate your pedophilia are adultophiles! Never forget that!

Christian

My own joke is that gynephilia (sexuality directed towards adult women) is such a dangerous thing that it should never be left to men, it should rather be reserved to women and children.
Look what gynephilic men do: in a French investigation about sexual harassment in public transport, 100% of interviewed women declared having experienced at least once some form of sexual harassment (or assault) in public transport. Guess by whom? By gynephiles!

Teleiophile Hunter

Gynephiles women are probably just as dangerous as men, in fact adultophile lesbianism is one of the causes of the paedo-hysteria, this is because women are generally less aggressive than men, but are based more on manipulation, feminism (the worst ideology since Nazism) has castrated the pedosexual man and woman, which is a type of sexual assault.
Is also suspicious that 100% were harassed, there are certainly count the factor that women hate men, 100% sure of them also thought that a pedophile has watched his daughter sexually or attempted to rape her, but undoubtedly a most rapes occur by profligate adultophiles, not pedophiles or hebephiles in no doubt about that.
Simply: Love exists only between an adult and a child, until the world does not understand this the human species does not cease to be a form of inferior sexual animal.

Bernard K.

Hey Christian, I think you’re wrong, the attraction for women is gynephilia, girls age 12 are women, and aged ten or nine is the same too, no? The attraction for adults is adultophilia (or teleiophilia, a strange word, by the way), I do like women, especially girls but sometimes adult women too, but I am attracted ONLY to her femininity (ie, the “woman” part ), not their adulthood.
Most straight men (and society in general) is adultophile, does not like “women” will actually attract only the adulthood but exclusively in heterosexual way, there is no gynephilia “love of women”, if the girl is 13 or 14 years (a woman) they do not like because it’s not full grown, in contrast to me if I like it, that’s the difference. Gynephilia is not adultophilia.

Christian

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androphilia_and_gynephilia
Magnus Hirschfeld defined androphilia as attraction to male adults, to distinguish it from ephebophilia, the latter including Greek-style boy-love. Several scientists use androphilia and gynephilia for attraction to adult males and females respectively. Some say “egalitarian androphilia” for man-man love, distinct from man-boy love. I would call attraction to young girls korephilia, and attraction to little girls thygatrophilia. Anyway the “philia” suffix is conceptually inappropriate, since in Greek it means dispassionate friendship between equals (i.e., liking buddies). The correct Greek words are “storge” for natural love (such as nurturing), “eros” for sexual or romantic love, and “agape” for religious devotion. And indeed Krafft-Ebing said “paedophilia erotica” because he did not want to say “pederasty”, which people conflate with homosexuality. For more details, see my comments on Lensman’s blog article “18 common misconceptions about paedophiles & paedophilia”:
https://consentinghumans.wordpress.com/2015/08/14/18-common-misconceptions-about-paedophiles-paedophilia/

Christian

As I said, read the comments to the above-mentioned blog article by Lensman (who claims to be a thygaterast). I will not repeat it here.
When words are very inadequate to express ideas, you need to invent new words, like thygatrostorge, thygaterast, korestorge and korerast, much more precise than “pedophile” or “hebephile” or “girl-lover”.

EEthanic

Dear Christian, please remember that words, to be accepted and used have to embody some elements of elegance and, more importantly, flow and ease of pronunciation.
Perhaps (nay, granted that) words such as ‘thygatrostorge’, ‘thygaterast’, ‘ korestorge’ and ‘korerast’ are precise. There is, however, little chance that they would be accepted anywhere other than in very dry academic circles. And academic writings generally stay in academia, with little to no impact outside.
If we want to effect change we have to use language (more) accessible to the general public.

EEthanic

A friend of mine remarked, while we were looking at some 14-16 yo girls, ” they’re too young for me!”
Talking about being set in your ways….

Bernard K.

Yeah! but is normal, It is these people that you’re referring to are adultophiles, ONLY likes adults, not women or men, ONLY adults, but I like women, young girls are women too, those people who does not like minors are imbeciles.
No one is too young to love.
Youth is better.

Bernard K.

Interesting, though curiously Gynephilia here instead it appears as attraction to femininity rather than to female adulthood: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gynephilia
And then how would you call a person who does not like adults (like “Pedophobia” is the dislike for children) but sometimes is attracted by some adult women who have qualities that attract to him? I really only like 1 out of 1000 women, however I like 7 out of 10 girls, especially pubertal. And also I made clear that I detest adults in every way, but as I said, some women I find attractive (a gem among rocks, I guess). I didn’t sound this very attracted to adulthood, right?

mr pedo-man

I first saw Mr Oldfield on Newsnight in 2007, He was a breath of fresh air, Don’t think they will be inviting him back any time soon! Reading about the mob attack, One women said “he uses the same bus as my children” That’s a potent reminder how irrational people have become.
By no means would I endorse all that Nigel said….TOC, To save going through the video again, What issue do you part company? What about the clinical definition; Those that are also attracted to adults, But still possess paedophilia, are arguably still paedophiles?

TOMAPITV

TY all,
Must be brief 🙂
Working from here, for now 🙂
Nigel.
http://onlymapinthevillage.blogspot.com

TOMAPINTV

Tis me Tom,
TY folks.
Just controlling my PAYG smartphone use … and the library I use, is poor service, for paid access !!! …nice folk though.
Survival priorities, presently 🙂
Nigel

lensman

>”It is a post telling us about a registered sex offender, injured when he was attacked at work with a hammer, being denied entitlement to workers’ compensation benefits.”
I read of this story with disbelief – it looks like we’re edging our way towards a situation where anyone with a propensity for violence merely has to attack someone whose name is on the registry, or claim they suspected someone of being a paedophile, for them to be let off and for the violence to sanctioned by society.
The same goes for the disgraceful actions of the mob towards Nigel Oldfield.
One paper, I can’t remember which, used the term ‘hate-mob’ to describe the, well, hate mob. They didn’t like that. Twitter became briefly alight with indignation as the self-righteous supporters of the pogrom baulked at what they saw when a mirror was held up to them.
The ‘Radio interview – Chris wittwer & convicted paedo Nigel Oldfield’ starts off nastily, especially the presenter’s intro, but Nigel Oldfield does well in getting his points across despite the interviewer doing his best to derail him.
If he’s reading this I wish Nigel all the best, and wish him to know that his work and campaigning is valued.
>”So this is beginning to look like a permanent rise of interest in Heretic TOC for which the only explanation (apart from an excellent recent guest blog by Lensman!) appears to be the exposure on Australian TV.”
Thanks for the kind words regarding my guest blog, Tom. But I can’t help thinking my guest blog must have played a significant part in scaring off the antis who came her looking for something moist and salacious, and also a lot of the tldr-crowd!

Hypersonic

I am disappointed that you are have not written about Paul Christiano. So what if you didn’t know him. You wrote about that lunatic Stinson Hunter.
Paul’s story is the best example for why the sex offender registry and CP laws need to be eliminated. He was one in a million, and I am not just saying that because he was my best friend. He was incredibly talented, but the laws ruined his life. Here is his documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-9aZHCUM40
People will probably tell me to get over it, but I won’t. I am not going to stop until these laws are eliminated. Fuck this world.

Hypersonic

Cool. Where is sexnet located? All I see are links to pornographic web sites. Anyway, it is still sad that he didn’t get much publicity. For as talented as he was, his story should have been shown on CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc.

TOMAPINTV

I am not 🙁
Nigel

TOMAPITV

I expect I am not virtuous enough 😉
Nigel

Bloom

Membership is at the whim of sexnettenführer Prof. J. Michael Bailey, who nurtures a diverse bunch of sexologists and perverts. Dr James Cantor figures prominently among the latter.

EEthanic

This does not sound like an entirely wholesome conglomeration.

A.

I assume you heard about Father Michael Ingram? For anyone who doesn’t know, Ingram killed himself in 2000 at age 68. He was a Dominican priest and child counsellor who wrote a study of man-boy relationships. At the time of his suicide he was awaiting sentencing for sexual offences committed in the 1970s against six boys aged 9-12. The sex had happened on camping holidays and at a holiday home Ingram had set up for deprived children. Ingram lingered in the hospital for two weeks before he died.

A.

I always think of the John Betjeman poem ‘Shattered Image’ (here under S-H: http://spcoll.library.uvic.ca/Digit/Betjeman/webcon/wholeweb/framconc.htm). The sad irony is that things are so much worse now than when he wrote it, e.g. note “the maximum two years”.

lensman

That’s a very beautiful and moving video.
I’d read of Paul Christiano’s death and felt saddened and angered by it – but watching the video has made aware just what a special person he was and what a talent he had. So much that is beautiful and crazy and funny. So much Truth, especially when he talks about Art.
The reversed clip of him walking backwards over a crowded footbridge (20:42) whilst he says in the voice-over “being a member of possibly the most stigmatised population on the planet for the past 11 years has rudely awakened me to how susceptible people are to hype and hysteria, and how rarely people are challenged to think for themselves” embodies so much of my own experience.
I dare say the haters and those who wish to condemn to a life-sentence those who are ‘guilty’ of what at worst should be a minor violation, will self-righteously count his death as a ‘scalp’.
But they are the ones that have ultimately ‘lost’ – Christiano, despite society’s efforts, created and embodied beauty and meaning, the mob merely excretes hatred and sits self-satisfied in the ever-deeping slurry of its ignorance.

A.

I hadn’t heard of your friend but I was impressed and moved by this video. I’m very sorry for your loss.
Searching for Paul Christiano’s name, I found the Sex Offender Suicides blog: on-suicides-deaths.blogspot.com/

A.

Here’s an article featuring excerpts from an interview with Paul Christiano: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/14/local/la-me-pedophiles-20130115

Dissident

I give the author of this article kudos for trying very hard to be open-minded. It rises far above the typical stuff you see, and it seems to represent a type of change in the approach to this subject that is gradually occurring in non-conservative media perception regarding this topic.
There are a few fallacies still listed, however, such as the one claiming that virtually all pedophiles (or hebephiles, I’m guessing) are male. You could find out otherwise if you actually bothered to move beyond the clinical studies and visit the few public forums, usually the ones dedicated to GL. Female adult attraction to minors is simply often overlooked and ignored because at the present time, women with this attraction base in the general population have refused to be the subject of interviews. One of them whom I was friends with confided in me that this is because they benefit from their lack of publicity, since unlike men, women are more or less left alone and can carry on close relationships with younger people (mostly girls, it seems) free of the type of suspicion that is directed at men to prevent them from forming close friendships with underagers. This explains why so many female GLer’s I have known were very adamant about avoiding relatively objective studies conducted by the growing number of researchers seeking discourse with MAPs in the general population outside of forensic and clinical groups. If we went to get any number of female MAPs into the general discourse then this concern of theirs needs to be addressed.
This article also typically quotes much from Cantor’s rather dubious studies without mentioning how controversial he and his close associates are, and the media frenzy that went on due to so many of their colleagues disagreeing with them when they were in charge of updating the most recent edition of the DSM. I do appreciate the author citing Dr. Fred Berlin’s quote, of course. I’ve also read many other statistics that have made it clear that more than just half of situational child molesters who commit genuine acts of assault against children or young adolescents are not preferentially attracted to them, but what the author did say was at least on the right track according to legitimate studies. This 2013 article shows that hope is on the horizon, and Paul did the community proud by being a part of it.

A.

I quite agree, as usual! Though I must say I am a bit taken aback and dispirited to read of this refusal to participate in interviews (you have a much wider circle of MAP acquaintance than I’ve ever had). I would jump at the chance to be in an (anonymous) study. My kind certainly benefits from the lack of publicity — no-one looks askance at a scoutmistress, but plenty do at scoutmasters — but I feel that is distinctly unfair…
I would also very tentatively suggest that the same phenomenon that makes more women than men identify as bisexual and fewer as exclusively gay is at work here. When the third Harry Potter movie came out I knew lots of twenty-something women who — always with no men present — said they found young Dan Radcliffe very attractive. IMDB tells me that during filming he was aged thirteen years seven months to fourteen years six months. He went through puberty on the early side, so he looked a bit older than his age, but the same cannot be said of Jean-Baptiste Maunier, twelve and a half during the filming of Les Choristes and likewise an object of attraction for many young women I knew. But all of these women had plenty of relationships with men: they simply had a bit of a hebephile streak, rather than being out-and-out hebephiles.
I’ve also noticed that there are few women on BoyChat and GirlChat, but that women are a substantial minority on Paraphilias Forums. I would, again tentatively, put that down to 1.) the hair-raisingly misogynist comments BoyChatters in particular sometimes come out with and, more significantly, 2.) female guilt about being MAP, due to women’s on-average greater awareness of sexual violence and to a sense of deep unnaturalness because women’s feelings for children are supposed to be motherly and ‘pure’.

A.

PS Frits Bernard did an interview with a young female GL, and Monica Pieterse and Susan Goode each managed to round up a couple of female MAPs to interview. Not all is bleak with regard to my sex’s participation in research… [TOC adds: Susan Goode?? or Sarah?]

A.

Sarah Goode is she of Understanding and Addressing Adult Sexual Attraction to Minors, right? She had fifty-six respondents to her questionnaire, two female.

Dissident

Thank you for another good reply, A, and also for being actively vocal as a female MAP. Much of what you said makes sense, and adds much to the puzzle as to why so many researchers – and the general public, for that matter – are mistakenly convinced that pedophilia and hebephilia are virtually exclusive to males.
Your observation regarding fellow women who confide in the company of a few trusted peers that seem to have “a bit of a hebephile” streak seems to explain quite well the difference between a genuine hebephile and a typical teleiophile: the latter can be attracted to even young adolescents, who are essentially young adults, but they lack the preferential attraction to pubescents & young adolescents compared to peers or young adults; or a significant attraction to pubescents & young adolescents that routinely equals their attraction to peers, both of which characterize the genuine hebephile.
The misogyny you report seeing from male MAPs, particularly among male BLer’s, is quite unfortunate, and points out how MAPs as a whole are every bit as vulnerable to embracing bigotry and ignorance as any other group, something we must ever be mindful of. I think much of the reason you see such attitudes from certain male MAPs is out of anger at society’s expectations that they find women in their specific age group as the ideal romantic partner for them. This form of bigotry and resentment, alas, too often works both ways.
As a male heterosexual hebephile who is also attracted to young adult women but not women in my age group (I’m in my 40s), I can speak from experience that resentment towards older women can spring from the fact that so many of them express anger towards us for not finding them attractive, and their interconnected jealousy towards younger women and girls. For instance, about a year ago I was enjoying flirtations in a coffee shop with a younger woman of legal age who was the friend of a long time female friend of mine who is much closer to my age (we have never been romantically inclined towards each other, btw, which I think is important to mention), and I was really upset and disheartened when my long-time friend very rudely and very openly did everything in her power to sabotage the flirting and to convince her friend to lose interest in me, including repeatedly pointing out my age to her and exaggerating it (and even after the young woman told her that didn’t bother her). And that from a close friend of over 18 years that knows perfectly well that I’m not in any way predatory in my behavior towards young women, nor a bad person.
This, of course, does not in any way justify male MAPs being resentful of all older women, and I’ve often had many older women as valued friends. I simply point it out as an explanation as to why such antipathy towards older women is sometimes expressed by male MAPs. I think both groups need to get past their reasons for resenting each other and come to understand that hatred and bigotry are wrong no matter who it’s directed against.
As for the two additional reasons you gave for why so many female MAPs may be quiet even among this community: 1) It’s unfortunate that our society claims a deep-seated connection between adult attraction to minors and sexual violence, and I wish everyone could get past that; 2) Yes, the cultural stereotype of women being inherently nurturing and parental minded towards children is doubtless a societal factor that causes no end of internal conflict among many female MAPs, which is really something that we need to address; one can be very nurturing and caring without being “pure” in a sexual sense.

mr pedo-man

” one can be very nurturing and caring without being “pure” in a sexual sense”
Indeed..Often when I read blogs about paedophilia (which are usually inadvertently including hebephilia),… They will say there’s some cross wiring in the brains of paedophiles, Where instead of a natural nurturing response to kids, Its replaced with sexual urges: And as you say, why is it not possible to have both. Is it a natural human response to be nurturing to kids, as prehistoric man?…Maybe the same way male Lions are with the cubs of a rival?

sugarboy

Actually, John Money (probably the last non-hooker researcher in the field of sexuality), spoke of pedophilia as “an overflow of parental pairbonding into erotic pair bonding”.

A.

I’ve also seen it suggested that most non-CLs have, to a greater or lesser extent, an affectionate, nurturing, nostalgic response to kids, and CLs have that plus sexual attraction, so it’s a kind of double whammy.

A.

Replying up here so it doesn’t turn into spaghetti. Yeah, a lot of middle-aged women are upset that men their own age often no longer find them attractive. By and large they still find men their own age attractive, and it hurts to be rejected. It also hurts to be written off and made invisible because you’re no longer a hot young thing, and it’s maddening to be considered unsexual just when you finally feel full of sexual confidence and ready to let go in bed without worrying about how you’re being perceived. Also a lot of women feel, quite correctly, that it was not only time but also pregnancy, child-bearing and child-rearing that made them lose their looks, and that’s quite bitter-making: “I take that physical battering, I do all that work without much help and without the work being considered really valuable, I sacrifice my career and am considered just a dumb mother, and now I’m not sexy any more.”
Mind you, there is the cougar phenomenon. And even some GLs have very wide AOAs: I’ve seen listed 3-50, 6-45, 7-45. There was even a guy on Paraphilias Forums who appeared to be a hebeteleiogerontophile: he liked girls and women 11-70, he said, and occasionally older than 70 and as young as 9. Within that range he had no preference: a 12-year-old and a 66-year-old could be equally attractive to him. He also was attracted to trans women and a very few men.
I think a lot of BLs also have little contact with women. If you work in IT and devote your weekends to coaching under-12 boys’ soccer and your relationship with your sister is a bit strained because she’s always had vague suspicions about you, you just aren’t rubbing shoulders with many women, and it’s easier to develop misogynist attitudes. Also, some paedophiles, whether boy-lovers or girl-lovers, are actively repulsed by adult bodies, especially women’s, and that can easily turn into general dislike because humans are dumb like that. This is not to deny that MAPs in general have very legitimate reasons to be angry at certain strands within feminism.

Dissident

I fully understand why older women may develop such feelings, A, and believe me, I do sympathize with them. After all, many men know full well what it’s like to be rejected, and though I look much younger than my age (I can pass for late 20s), I’ve often been rejected by younger women once they find out my actual age, and sometimes only for that reason (“I’m attracted to you, or I was, but I feel ‘weird’ dating someone who is actually my father’s age”). So it’s not like men in general, let alone male MAPs, do not fully empathize with the pain of being rejected, not to mention the fear of growing older, something that is probably even more terrifying to MAPs (at least hebephiles) than to teleiophile women.
But here’s the thing all groups of people need to ask themselves: Is hatred or bitter anger ever productive emotions that lead to beneficial conclusions? Is attacking or demonizing any single group of people because their preferences may remind you of the reason you feel you’re getting rejected ever a good solution to your problem? And perhaps most importantly is this question: Is it beneficial to anyone concerned at the end of the day if you attempt to manipulate a combination of the law and cultural values so as to effectively force people belonging to a certain group to settle for you because they have little to no other choice?
I’ve faced something similar when I’ve met attractive young women who were lesbians and thus didn’t reciprocate the attraction for that reason. I did feel angry and disappointed in such cases, no doubt, but I fully understand that people do not choose whom they are attracted or not attracted to. This is now largely understood in regards to gender attraction, but is still poorly understood when it comes to chrono-attraction. It’s disheartening to have my character demonized and end up accused of choosing to date younger women because I think they are “easier to control,” that older women are universally “assertive” and thus scare “bad” and “controlling” men like me away, etc. This is all rationalizing and very hurtfully untrue. To top it all off, if I did give into such pressure and dated older women, as I’ve tried to before, I would not be a good or fulfilling romantic partner for them on any level. It’s to everyone’s advantage when individuals who are not attracted to them do not attempt to date them, and considerably more productive to seek out people who are attracted to you than to attack those who are not.
To end this diatribe and preserve some degree of brevity, I’ll mention this: again, I fully empathize with how older women feel about being rejected. But I do not feel sorry for them because throughout my entire life I have rarely seen single older women fail to find men, including in some cases much younger men, who are attracted to them. I cannot speak for the amount of teleiophile men who may lose attraction for women in their age group once they become older, but I do not frequently see older men leaving long-time partners in the same age group if they are still in love with each other, and I have most certainly not lived a sheltered life. I honestly believe that some of these older women drive men in their age group away with bitter and jaded attitudes rather than failing good looks, since the majority of people in society seem to prefer individuals in their own age group. I do agree with much of what you said, of course, A, and I don’t mean to imply that I think you were making these accusations; I just wanted to explain this side of the perspective (okay, and maybe vent a bit too, sorry).

A.

“So it’s not like men in general, let alone male MAPs, do not fully empathize with the pain of being rejected…” Well, of course, and indeed it would be unfair to imply that men in general don’t get hit with it worse, because they’re still generally expected to do much of the initiating, though that’s changing. I’m simply a bit prickly on this subject because I am tired of hearing “Those awful women, they turn into shrieking harpies when they lose their ability to manipulate with their feminine wiles!” from assorted BLs. (One guy appeared to have parted company with reality altogether when he suggested that women are bitter, and therefore hostile to BLs, because they know they’ll never be as beautiful as pubescent boys. I am as sure as I can reasonably be that for most women that is not the case, not in this culture anyway.) But I didn’t mean to be prickly *at you*, because you’d never say anything of the sort; sorry if I came across that way.
I have known a fair few women who for whatever reason find themselves single at mid-life, can’t get a look-in with men their own age and are advised by one and all to date much older men, which they find deeply frustrating. On the other hand I have also met a woman who in middle age took up with a man twenty years younger. The relationship appears still to be going strong.
The “they’re looking for power and control” idea falls down the moment one takes a look at any good study of MAPs. For instance, one guy studied by Sarah Goode said, “As I grew older, I became increasingly nostalgic for girls as equals, with the physical confidence they had as pre-adolescents.” Lots of CLs, including me, take children seriously as people and treasure moments when we’re included by them as equals. Indeed the only power-and-control comment I have ever heard or read from an MAP was from a woman, interviewed for Marina Knopf’s study Sexual Contacts Between Women and Children: the woman in question said that she fantasised about giving oral sex to girls 10 and up and liked the feeling of power this gave her. And that’s it: the sum total of everything along those lines that I’ve ever turned up, in all my reading and discussion.
I don’t think this power-and-control notion is being plucked *entirely* from thin air. There are indeed people who date younger people, perhaps especially men who date younger women, partly because they’re good-looking and energetic and partly because they’re easier to impress, even, in some cases, manipulate. But that’s way up there age-wise, in the field of teleiophilia and adult relationships. We’re talking about guys who like girls and women in their thirties, twenties and later teens and for various reasons, benign and otherwise, consistently decide to go for the lower extreme of the range. Someone whose sexual orientation is to pubescent girls is a very different kind of person in a very different kind of situation. It’s like suggesting homosexuals pursue same-sex relationships because they don’t want the bother of having to relate to the opposite sex. We all know that’s not true. Yes, there are some bisexual women who have only lesbian relationships because they find them easier and more pleasant, but that’s different! I find these groundless assertions frustrating; it must be very, very much worse for you.

A.

Forgot to mention: a lot of women feel very guilty about their sexual feelings during breastfeeding, especially if the baby is a boy.

His name is SHAME

Could you provide evidence, please.

Nada

Well, pedophilia remains in both the DSM and ICD classifications. The latter can be used to diagnose hebephiles too.
Regarding hope on the horizon, I’d welcome input from others on what this hope consists of and associated probabilities.
My own, probably overly optimistic estimates.
Probability that within 50 years
pedophilia is removed from the classification of illnesses: 0.1%
a specific test for some form of minor attraction is developed: 2%
such a test will be used as a method for genocide: 50%
some Western nation will reduce the age of consent: 1%
such a reduction will split the MAP community, analogous to BLers
being excluded from the wider homosexual movement: 99%
the increasing centralization and censorship of the Internet makes it virtually impossible for MAPs to discuss minor attraction and related issues: 95%

Dissident

Hello, Hypersonic, and great to see you here. I’m sure you can imagine how much Paul’s suicide has affected me. I respected the man deeply, not only as a greatly talented member of his vocation, but as the terrifically caring and sensitive human being that he was. This is indeed a supreme tragedy and terrible loss not only for our community, but for the world of artistic dancing, not to mention the world in general. He had so much potential that was denied him simply because he looked at “forbidden” pictures and had the “wrong” thoughts while looking at them.
I fully understand your pain and anger, and this tragedy has reinforced my determination to never accept these laws as serving any type of “greater good.” The devastation of Paul’s life long before he felt the need to take it by his own hands, along with a similar situation faced by many other undoubtedly good people, make it abundantly clear that laws which force individuals like Paul into becoming sacrificial lambs for some bogus ideology to protect the “image” of the Innocent Child do not serve the cause of justice or protect any group of people. All they do is destroy truly innocent lives. Though I will never allow myself to become so embittered that I step outside the law or give into the same type of hatred that ruined Paul’s life (he wouldn’t have wanted me to do either), as far as I’m concerned, his blood is on the hands of the industry that promotes this type of hatred and ignorance. Everyone, including the children themselves and good people like Paul whose lives were needlessly ruined, deserve much better.

Hypersonic

I knew that you met him at least a couple times in person at the B4U-ACT workshops. I am wondering if you have any more information about Paul that I don’t know about. If you are still interested in talking to me on Skype, my username is still the same. However, I noticed that you never use your old Skype name any more.
It is really shocking that he killed himself, since I just talked to him over the phone about a week before it happened. I knew he was facing years in prison; I was aware of his legal situation. There is no way I am going to get over this. This makes me feel even more terrified to leave my house.

Dissident

At this point in time, Hypersonic, you are likely have as much info about Paul as I do, since all I know about is what I’ve seen in articles that were discussed on GC. I do need to visit LifeLine again to talk about this, as it’s really affected me. If you still visit their forum and chat rooms we can talk and commiserate there. As for Skype, I haven’t used my old account in ages, but I’ve been meaning to return to LifeLine. Other than that, I’ve been extremely busy, and mostly gravitating between here and GC for my communications with my fellow MAPs. It was good to see you again, even if it was under these circumstances.
I think Paul’s suicide was such a shock to us because he was careful not to hint in any way to anyone that he was planning it, since he knew we would all do our utmost to stop him if we suspected he was making such plans; it seems he had completely made up his mind and didn’t want any intervention from the many people who cared about him, including his friends in our community 🙁

Hypersonic

I knew a little more than just a few articles and GC. He may have given me a hint that he was going to kill himself. He said he bought street drugs, but I didn’t know he was going to use it to kill himself. He said he was just using them to take the edge off. I also talked to his mother on the phone.
Anyway, I will never return to LifeLine, GC, or any other CL community because I have separated myself from them. They didn’t treat me well, and clearly I am too different.

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