From fallen ‘angels’ to bare Bear

The big story this time was supposed to have been Bruce Rind’s latest, a fantastic paper that came out a couple of months ago, based on German survey data. It is worth making a song and dance about, with a proper analysis and discussion of its contents.

But that will have to wait until another time. There is no urgency compared to a whole bunch of other stuff that needs a more immediate airing, some of which can be dealt with more briefly. I’ll be highlighting my own news in a moment but decency demands prior mention of the continuing plight in Ecuador of Dutch former MAP activist Marthijn Uittenbogaard and his partner Lesley. As I reported briefly in June in the Comment space, linking to a Dutch newspaper report, the pair have been given 10-year prison terms based on convictions there is good reason to believe are based on false testimony. There is little new to say at the moment except that an appeal is said to be underway, and that Newgon’s page on Marthijn is worth following as updates will likely appear there first.

So, what’s my exciting news then? I have been CANCELLED.

Yes, yes, I know. No big deal bearing in mind that MAPs are being wiped out on a daily basis from social media. But say the Pope invites you to a personal audience. You’re a good Catholic. You’re thrilled. It’s a huge honour. You rock up at the Vatican in your smart new Pope-meeting schmutter, glowing with pride as liveried flunkies usher you into His Holiness’ presence. But instead of being greeted warmly with a blessing, all you get is a blunt rebuff: “You, you ingleesha cunt, you’re fucking EX-a-COMMUNICATED as of righta NOW! So fucka you off, maximo pronto!”

The equivalent, for me, of the Pope on this occasion was a newish academic publishing house of growing repute (having published the work of several Nobel prize winners) who had accepted a chapter of mine back in February for inclusion in a forthcoming book, Ethics in Scientific Research: New Perspectives, being edited by a professor at the University of Belgrade. Publication as a hardback, at £79, was scheduled for late July. I felt this was a major triumph. I do not recall any other case in which an easily identifiable MAP such as myself, who favours sexual self-determination for children and writes under their own name, has been given a prestigious and highly visible platform on which to speak on an equal footing with career scientists.

My chapter was duly published online in March, ahead of the print edition. The title speaks for itself: “Where Angels Fear to Tread: Anxieties over Researching Child Sexuality Must Be Overcome”. I had submitted it at the invitation of the publishers, who cited my earlier paper, “Childhood ‘Innocence’ is Not Ideal: Virtue Ethics and Child–Adult Sex”, as the reason for their interest. This paper, which appeared in 2018 in Sexuality & Culture, has been accessed 56k times – massive for an academic article.

The book’s editor, Miroslav Radenkovic, is a professor of pharmacology and bioethics expert at the University of Belgrade. After reading the submitted chapter, he “wholeheartedly” endorsed my approach, saying I had conducted a “very well prepared and executed analysis”. The chapter proposes ethical grounds for researching child sexuality more extensively and in new ways: instead of research targeted, as in the past, at identifying and eliminating “abnormal” child behaviour, I propose a new paradigm aimed at a more positive and inclusive approach to sexual health – one which would allow for a diversity of sexual and gender expression and (reading between the lines) would not rule out minors’ active interest in older partners.

So far so good. And my newly minted Open Access online chapter began to attract significant interest. The numbers are quite small as yet, but known readers include important figures in the field, including Jenny Walsh, a leading light of sexuality education in Australia, and Steven Angelides, author of The Fear of Child Sexuality. There has also been enthusiastic feedback from people I know personally in academic circles.

Loud and proud: A PIE contingent at London Gay Pride in 1983 proclaims the MAP message with no evident fear of “cancellation” by the movement. Forty years on, how times have changed. Photo: Bob Workman.

So, with all this positivity around, what could possibly go wrong? Bizarrely, I still do not know for sure, because publishers IntechOpen have refused to specify any particular grounds for withdrawing the chapter, a cancellation they announced in the middle of last month. They just left a notice on the chapter’s webpage. As well as announcing the retraction, this notice gives a link to the company’s general policy page on retractions and corrections, where all sorts of possible reasons for withdrawal are listed, such as fraud, plagiarism, etc., plus a catch-all clause covering any practice or act “considered potentially harmful to the scientific community”.

But we do not have to look far to see what probably kicked it all off. The very day before the Intech take-down, there was a pile-on against me on Sexnet. As many here will already be aware, this is primarily an expert forum for psychologists, endocrinologists, neuro-scientists, etc., in which most of the invitation-only subscribers are researchers and clinicians, although there has always been a smattering of odd bods – including “specimens” of sexual minorities, such as me, and a few journalists with a specialist interest. The pile-on was dominated not by researchers but by newer feminist members known more for their writing in papers such as the New York Times and the Guardian. They would dearly love to see me kicked off the forum, but support from the moderator, psychologist Prof. Mike Bailey, was very robust. So it seems they went for a softer target: IntechOpen.

Reassuringly, one professor emailed me privately saying “I am sure that the retraction has nothing to do with the quality or ethics of the article itself, but is merely based on some victimological activists contacting them to protest publishing anything written by you. The argument would be that no paedophile can be objective about child sexuality. By the same infernal logic, no victim of CSA can be objective about it, no woman can be objective about women’s issues, no black can be objective about black studies, no gay person can be objective about gay studies, etc.”

Quite. But never mind, there is a silver lining. The paper remains available for free download from ResearchGate, where online readings and downloads are now ticking up nicely. Interest, it seems, has been boosted not diminished by IntechOpen’s precipitate cancellation. In fact there has also been an upturn of interest in my “back catalogue” of academic articles listed at the site, and I am pleased to say I have other new ones in the pipeline.

On a lighter note, my Sexnet battle with the “feminazis”, reminds me that back in June I was approached by Róisín Michaux, a thuggish TERF who writes for a despicable smear sheet called Reduxx. She said she was thinking about starting a podcast and wanted to record a conversation with me on sex education, specifically as regards “the gender identity stuff”, which she felt was “was worrying for parents”.

Why me? Presumably because in an earlier email exchange with her there had been some common ground between us. Like her, and other TERFs, I do feel strongly that the more militant trans activists take their claims to “equality” too far, notably as regards their insistence that big, hairy, muscular “women” with penises should be allowed to compete in women’s athletics. This sort of “equal” rights creates anything but a level playing field. So Michaux was no doubt hoping she could get evidence that even paedos activists are anti-trans (which I am not).

Inspired by the impending Musk-Zuckerberg showdown, I replied saying I had a better idea than a podcast. How about a cage fight instead? I wrote: “As a young, fit, butch dyke (tell me you aren’t!) you’d have no trouble quickly destroying an old-timer like me and it would be far less painful than a conversation with you.”

“Seriously, though,” I added, “the idea of doing a recorded convo for a podcast or whatever is not hugely attractive bearing in mind you must be seeing my role as that of useful idiot. If you want to trying selling it to me somehow by all means give it a go, but it’s not as though I am short of things to do and my energy levels are not what they were.”

She did not “give it a go”. Nor did she reply in any way. No sense of humour, evidently. These attack bitches can dish it out but they can’t take it, can they?

 

LET’S MARCH TO THE 8 MARCH TUNE

Children do consent to sex, in fact, if not in law. You know that. It’s hardly news.

What is news, though, is that the United Nations has woken up to this simple truth in ways that have palpably begun to alarm conservatives this year and should bring cheer to our hearts – as well as renewed determination among us to assert the human rights principle that lies behind the great  awakening in question.

Have you heard of “The 8 March Principles”?

This is a ground-breaking human rights approach to criminal law, the fruit of lengthy deliberations by the International Commission of Jurists (ICJ), put out in a document earlier this year on, you guessed it, 8 March. It is high-powered stuff, developed through a five-year consultative process involving the UN’s Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) along with numerous relevant NGOs and legal experts.

Best of all is Principle 16. This is the one that has frightened the horses. Donald Trump’s Republican rival Senator Marco Rubio was quick to put out a statement that began by saying the UN had “sponsored a report that asserted underage minors can consent to sex with adults”. He reported that he had fired off a letter to the US ambassador to the UN demanding to know “whether the Biden Administration was aware of the report prior to its publication and expressing opposition to providing UN contributions to any initiatives that promote underage sex”.

Was Rubio exaggerating? Judge for yourself. Headed “Consensual sexual conduct”, here is Principle 16 in full:

Consensual sexual conduct, irrespective of the type of sexual activity, the sex/gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression of the people involved or their marital status, may not be criminalized in any circumstances. Consensual same-sex, as well as consensual different-sex sexual relations, or consensual sexual relations with or between trans, non-binary and other gender-diverse people, or outside marriage – whether pre-marital or extramarital – may, therefore, never be criminalized.

With respect to the enforcement of criminal law, any prescribed minimum age of consent to sex must be applied in a non-discriminatory manner. Enforcement may not be linked to the sex/gender of participants or age of consent to marriage.

Moreover, sexual conduct involving persons below the domestically prescribed minimum age of consent to sex may be consensual in fact, if not in law. In this context, the enforcement of criminal law should reflect the rights and capacity of persons under 18 years of age to make decisions about engaging in consensual sexual conduct and their right to be heard in matters concerning them. Pursuant to their evolving capacities and progressive autonomy, persons under 18 years of age should participate in decisions affecting them, with due regard to their age, maturity and best interests, and with specific attention to non-discrimination guarantees.

Consensual sex, we read, may not be criminalized in any circumstances. If they had meant to exclude children below any particular ages of consent they would have said so. Abolition of age of consent laws is not proposed but it is asserted that, despite what these laws stipulate, law enforcement should “reflect the rights and capacity” of minors “to make decisions about engaging in consensual conduct”. They do not say only if the conduct is solitary masturbation of oneself, or sex with another minor. There are no such caveats. There is nothing to invalidate a child’s decision to have sex with a consenting adult. And there is no specification that the child would lack the necessary “capacity” unless they had reached a certain age. Thus, much would depend on how “capacity” is interpreted, but I see nothing here to suggest that Rubio is fundamentally wrong.

Some MAP activists have already started running with this, and I hope there will be many more. Prominent among those taking up the challenge has been a new star (new to me at least) on the pro-MAP scene, Master Seaman Jessica Silva of the Royal Canadian Navy.

In connection with June’s Pride festivities, she reportedly commented on her social media page: “Pride is for everyone and every sexuality is valid and every experience is valid. MAP rights are human rights and MAP is a legitimate part of the queer community and culture.” When challenged with the view that children cannot consent, she shot back smartly by citing the 8 March Principles.

Jessica, I am sure I speak for all at HTOC in saying, “We salute you!”

And a notable contribution has reached me from activist Steve Carson, who describes himself as a MAP and an advocate for a more rational understanding of human sexuality. He has written a rather good essay on consent. It does not mention the 8 March Principles but could easily have been inspired by them, as it puts kids’ de facto ability to consent at the front and centre of his clearly presented argument. Encouraging signs!

 

WILL THERAPY SET YOU FREE?

As close followers of the Comments space will recollect, Heretic TOC has been approached by a team of researchers in Germany who are seeking participants for a MAP-focused online questionnaire they have put out.

Briefly, the questionnaire is for MAPs who have undergone “any kind of treatment or therapy” in connection with their sexual orientation and have dropped out of doing so for some reason. The stated aim is to explore why they have dropped out, in order to “identify approaches to tailor treatment services more closely to the needs of MAPs”. The researchers emphasise that “It is explicitly not our position that all MAPs need therapy or require treatment”.

Along with a link to the survey itself, the researchers furnished me with an introductory Letter to Participants and a more detailed formal statement, Rationale for the Proposed Study. I read these items and completed the survey myself, in order to get a full appreciation of the questions asked, and the experience of answering them. I published the relevant links and invited readers’ feedback, without making any recommendations as to whether I felt participation was a good idea or not.

Feedback was duly received. In my view, readers made a number of good points, with some support for the survey but also a lot of scepticism as to the value of therapy for MAPs even in any “improved” therapy style that research might lead to. My own feeling is broadly that it is hard to see therapy being of benefit to radical, self-confident MAPs who know how to stay out of trouble. But we are not all like that. Others may take a completely different view, and for their benefit I have decided to take this matter “above the line” i.e. to publicise the research in the main blog space rather than just the Comments.

All you need to do to take part in the survey is to go to the survey link. This starts with all the participation information you need, which may help you decide whether you want to take part.

The four-strong team of researchers are led by Dr Stephan Mühlig, Professor of Clinical Psychology and Psychotherapy at the University of Technology, Chemnitz.

The Karl Marx Monument in Chemnitz, Saxony, which was part of the former Communist state of East Germany, when the city was known as Karl-Marx-Stadt. Chemnitz is be the European Capital of Culture of 2025.

It is perhaps worth adding that as part of my short email correspondence with team member Alina Göpel, I gave her a link to a paper of mine published years ago by ATSA, on the very subject the survey is investigating. Titled “What to do with the entrenched client: A paedophilic entrenched client’s view”, it details my own feelings about unsuccessful therapy undertaken while I was on a period of post-release licence after serving a prison sentence. The paper appeared in ATSA Forum and the full text is here.

Ms Göpel, a Master’s student, replied that she was “very interested” in reading about my experience. She said she had done an internship in a German prison. She had not observed such negative reactions as I reported, but she said, “I can understand your unhappiness regarding the attitude with which you were treated”. She also added, “Also in German programs, we have been confronted with a number of critical arguments regarding their form of treatment and  about the intentions behind such programs.”

“We found your insights to be very educative,” she said, but she hoped I would “understand the point where we’re coming from as well”.

I hope I do understand where they are coming from; but it is where they are going to that is of more concern. I don’t mean this research team, who are simply fact finding. Rather, our concern should be over where therapy itself is heading. As will be widely understood here, treatment programs, especially those in forensic settings, tend to be grounded in cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) and run in an inflexible, authoritarian, “by the book” style. It is interesting to note that even in relatively benign settings aimed at addressing non-sexual problems, the downside of CBT appears at last to be coming into focus in public discourse. One swallow doesn’t make a summer, but a recent piece in UnHerd (a lively place for spotting signs of the times) may be indicative. Titled “Why CBT won’t set you free: Therapy isn’t making us any happier”, it is by Nina Lyon, who writes on psychology and philosophy. Recommended.

 

WHEN IS A CHILD RAPIST NOT A CHILD RAPIST?

When he’s a drag artist protected by the warm embrace of the LGBT community it seems, aided and abetted by gay-friendly media, police forces keen to promote a pro-diversity image, nightclub owners unwilling to let go of a popular act, and event-space managers such as the prestigious Tate Britain, hosting Drag Queen Story Hour for nursery age kids.

Staggeringly, a man has just been convicted of a public order offence, described by a judge as “hate speech”, for protesting outside a Story Hour performance room at the Tate – not just against the performance itself but more significantly against the drag performer’s  earlier support for another drag queen who had a conviction for child rape. The media and judicial sympathy in this case seemed to be not just for drag queens in general (OK, that’s great) but also for something far more dubious: they appeared to be hell-bent on silencing a protestor who, whatever we may think of him, was actually telling the truth about a matter of legitimate public interest.

Admittedly, one has to suspect that the “rape” may not have been a real one, but a consensual affair that could plausibly be seen as a gay relationship between roughly “equal” partners, given that the “rapist” and the “victim” had both been teenagers at the time, the younger of the two having been 14. Piecing things together from an old news report, it looks as though the older boy (Darren Sewell, who later changed his name to Darren Moore) could have been as young as 17, hence a minor himself. There had been four counts of “rape”, from which we can infer that this had not been a single violent assault, but more likely an ongoing relationship.

The late Darren Moore: the man, and the drag act.

However, these mitigating circumstances are largely conjectural (I have been unable to find a report of the original rape case online) and would not have been known to most of the people who were so keen to deny the protestor’s freedom of speech. Instead, they were prepared to sweep under the carpet what might truly have been a horrible crime simply because it is unfashionable to hold trans people to account for their behaviour, no matter how bad that behaviour might have been.

That, in my old-fashioned view is wrong. Truth, and the freedom to express inconvenient truths, should trump the grubby expediency of identity politics any day, even when it favours MAPs. But I was never any good at politics, so I guess I would say that, wouldn’t I?

Anyway, that’s the downside, but it must be admitted that this single case provides compelling evidence for the extraordinary power of intersectional solidarity between a wide range of sexual minorities if they can plausibly present themselves as on the right side of the gender revolution. Some of us have taken it for granted that a “P” will never be added as a new ingredient to the LGBT+ alphabet soup, but this rallying of support for a “child rapist” reminds us that we can never say never with certainty.

The Tate Britain case is just the latest development in a more complex story with a very tragic side (the “child rapist” was murdered earlier this year, in an all too real “hate” crime) that need not be foregrounded here. However, the backstory shows in spectacular fashion just how improbably popular Darren Moore had become as drag artist Crystal Couture, despite his youthful labelling as a “nonce” offender. See, for instance, news stories: here and here. Also, The Spectator carried a comment piece along somewhat similar lines to my own, albeit from a more conservative position.

 

COMPLAINANT COULDN’T BEAR BARE BEAR

I see that star BBC presenter Stephen Nolan is in hot water. The Irish News reported this week that Nolan sent unsolicited sexual images of a potential guest to staff on his radio and television shows some years ago. According to a follow-up in The Guardian:

The guest was Stephen Bear, a Celebrity Big Brother winner wanted by Nolan for his TV show. “I want Bear!” Nolan wrote in one message, saying in another: “If I don’t get Bear tomorrow night, I’m sending more Bear photos.”

One recipient of the images, which showed Bear’s penis, said they were “beyond the pale” in an internal complaint to the BBC, according to the Irish News.

The Guardian solemnly adds that Nolan succeeded in landing Bear for his show in 2016, during which both men stripped to their underwear for “a segment on modelling”.

Look out, there’s a complainant about! The two Stephens, Bear (the slim one) and Nolan (the bear-sized one) strut their stuff in a TV “modelling” sequence.

Whatever the excuse, the show must have been hilarious. See photo. Nolan is clearly “a bit of a lad”. With a body like his you need guts in every sense to run such an item, and indeed to risk the ire of humour-challenged colleagues and our equally po-faced modern media by sending the dick pick, even in the year just before #MeToo.

I always thought he was one of the BBC’s bravest. I don’t watch his shows but I know he was brave enough to invite me as a guest on his TV show some years ago. Talks with his researchers had gone well over the course of several weeks only for the item to be knocked on the head. The BBC’s top brass, I learned, had told Nolan they would not let him do it: too controversial. They felt the corporation should not give the MAP cause “the oxygen of publicity”.

 

DID HE JUMP OR WAS HE PUSHED?

Some heretics will have seen a post by “Scotusbaby” on Boychat reporting that Jacob Breslow has quit his job as an academic at the London School of Economics (LSE). Dr Breslow himself put out a press statement. I would just remind everyone of the Heretic TOC blog last year in which significant background to this latest development was given an airing.

Breslow said that he left because of harassment, which he understands to be “to be part of a broader movement against the field of gender studies, and against trans rights and dignity”.

Did he jump, or was he pushed officially? His statement mentions “LSE’s independent investigation exonerating me”. It is possible that despite this exoneration he was pushed gently; or, rather, encouraged to jump with the help of an undisclosed financial incentive to do so. It would be odd to abandon an attractive academic position, now styling himself an “Independent Scholar and Researcher”, without having won any means to support himself in such a career.

There was a follow-up report earlier this month in Times Higher Education. The article does not speculate or show sign of inquiry into any official pressure, but does give the following as context:

Dr Breslow has been on leave after his involvement with Mermaids, a transgender youth support charity, was highlighted by The Times in October,  which also found he had attended a symposium organised by B4U-ACT, which promotes services and resources “for self-identified individuals…who are sexually attracted to children and desire such assistance”, according to its website.

 

 

 

5 3 votes
Article Rating
Subscribe
Notify of
guest

312 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
ThisWreckage

This trans person was disgusted by the action taken by Mermaids. Dr Breslow was a trustee of this charity, and when that Times piece appeared, Mermaids promptly ‘persuaded’ him to resign. Not because anything he did was unlawful, but merely because, in attending that B4U-ACT symposium (and bear in mind that B4U-ACT is an anti-contact organisation) Dr Breslow was bringing the charity into disrepute and, as the Times piece implied, a source of risk to the young trans people that Mermaids supports. The cowardice that the charity displayed was disgraceful. I wrote to them expressing this, solely from the point of view of a trans person but received no reply.

matt

Just bumped into an article about some celebrity in Ireland being accused of defiling a 16 year old.. Tom, you are part Irish, why is the AOC in Ireland so high??

matt

hm. i dont like long articles, really. But surely its a bit out of date? (the law) even northern ireland lowered it to 16 not long ago as it was 17 too. Its actually one of the highest in europe!

Leonerd

Moreover, Ireland is so religious that legal condom sales were allowed for the first time only in 1978, according to wikipedia

matt

if its that religious, surely God has no problem with anyone having sex with someone who can procreate?

Prue

Made page for deceased academic who penned some brilliantly detailed studies of historical pederasts. May be of interest to some of you: https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Will_H._L._Ogrinc

Prue

Interesting story. even if odd and indicative of P stigma/hysteria, from Tasmania of all places.

Inquest hears Tasmania Police officer Paul Reynolds was facing child exploitation claims before suicide

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-22/tas-police-inquest-hears-child-sex-abuse-claims-paul-reynolds/101682344

Prue

https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(23)00111-7/fulltext

Decline in Independent Activity as a Cause of Decline in Children’s Mental Well-being: Summary of the Evidence (Journal of Pediactrics), Sep. 2023.

It is no secret that rates of anxiety and depression among school-aged children and teens in the US are at an all-time high. Recognizing this, the American Academy of Pediatrics, American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, and Children’s Hospital Association issued, in 2021, a joint statement to the Biden administration that child and adolescent mental health be declared a “national emergency.”

From the article:

Our thesis is that a primary cause of the rise in mental disorders is a decline over decades in opportunities for children and teens to play, roam, and engage in other activities independent of direct oversight and control by adults. […]

Rutherford analyzed hundreds of articles and advice columns about childrearing that appeared in popular magazines from the early 20th century onward. She found that earlier articles portrayed a world in which children spent much time with other children away from adults, walked or biked to school alone or with friends from as young as age 5 years, contributed meaningfully through chores to the household economy, and by age 11 or 12 years often had part-time jobs, such as babysitting and paper routes, performed without direct adult oversight. Over time, however, beginning in the 1960s and accelerating in the 1980s, the implicit understanding shifted from that of children as competent, responsible, and resilient to the opposite, as advice focused increasingly on children’s needs for supervision and protection. Rutherford noted, as have other reviewers, that in some respects—such as freedom to choose what they wear or eat—children have gained autonomy over the decades. What has declined specifically is children’s freedom to engage in activities that involve some degree of risk and personal responsibility away from adults.

Books on the history of childhood in America have likewise documented the decline of both free play and children’s independent, responsible contributions to family and community.”

Cyril

There is a video on Telegram where children are beating and peeing on a man that was molesting them.

[MODERATOR: This looks fake to me. I see no good reason for posting the links Cyril has given.]

Cyril

Why fake? What may be the reason of videos fabrication on a Telegram channel?

Warbling J Turpitude

On the other hand, if these are really and truly ‘children” doing the beating and peeing, not teens, then it could just as well be a Japanese anime fantasy. The best hentai artists are all too adept at gleefully and graphically portraying such scenarios as we imbibe/internalize from the relentless onrush of media’s default sensationalist discourse…(i could of course, link to examples, but this here’s a family blog)

PS anyone here got on Bluesky yet? The sire is supposedly still in Beta, and one goes on a waitlist to join. So far it’s been about three weeks since i submitted my request!

Last edited 4 months ago by Warbling J Turpitude
Cyril

Consciousness is discovered in the newborn babies:

Does it mean that toddlers are able to consent?

Leonerd

Just as always, this means that toddlers, like any people, react with a smile and laughter to pleasant actions or with screaming and crying to unpleasant and painful ones, with the significant difference that older children additionaly can demand continuation in a vulgar form and offer erotic options if they are pleased and start swearing if they are not pleased, or call for help if they are hurt and scared.

Prue

I have just realized that no one has commented about Jacob Breslow here! A short segment about him makes up the end of this blog post.

Well, we probably all said most of what we had to say in Tom’s previous blog about Breslow. But, for what it’s worth: I suspect it was a mix of jumping and being pushed. (I.e. pushed through active or passive hostility from other staff or the uni administration, nasty emails, and maybe even hostile students or randos coming to campus to harras him either at his office or by those taking his classes, since universities are after all public buildings).

Ironically, I think he would and may fare better in his native America. Situating his work within the sphere of social justice will do more for his job prospects in America, where (in my view) I see Americans as having a lot more rigid “us vs them”, “with us or against us”, “looking after our people [I.e. supporters]” buddy-buddy culture.

Whatever the case, I hope he can keep going and find a lucrative role outside of LSE. Breslow’s blog showed a genuine intellectual curiosity with sensitive topics, and I think he’s perfect for the role of both student and then, as he became, lecturer. He appears to me as an obviously decent, kind and inquisitive person.

His writings are shamelessly partisan and front his ideological leanings, which I dislike a tad even whilst I agree w/ the underlying ethical impulse, and think a very privileged position that other’s would be unable to do (taking an affirmative approach on the issue of, say, positively experienced age-gap sex). However, he does not seem hell bent on advocating cancel culture, so he may well be and appears to me to be “one of the good ones”…

And although I think some of his writing is way too jargon heavy and wordy, I’d rather him have a uni job and be able to get paid to teach, publish and take on PhDs, than some Anti like David Pilgrim (blegh!)

Breslow is a cool dude who got targeted by bigots with a clear agenda to cancel dissenters and further associate MAPs and Trans politics. Although I don’t deny and don’t think it’s an issue that Trans identifying MAPs do in-fact exist, the controversy was largely disingenuous bullshit considering most of his transgression seems to be speaking at B4U-ACT, with a paper whose full contents we are not privy too.

For spending so many years working diligently to become an academic, I have mad respect for Breslow. He should be very proud of all he’s achieved, for taking children’s “queer desires” seriously, and for all the marginalized people he’s stood up for…

Stolas

Description of a movie called No Dogs Allowed that’s apparently going to be shown in Cannes and at smaller film festivals in March 2024:

“Gabo is 15 years old and discovers that he has pedophile tendencies. In order to finally be able to talk to someone about his preference, he becomes friends with the much older Dave, who is also a pedophile. Dave, on the other hand, benefits from meeting Gabo; after all, he can now live out his sexual fantasies with the boy. But when Dave is arrested for alleged sexual contact with minors, Gabo is faced with a dilemma: Should he testify against his mentor, even if he runs the risk of having to reveal his own secret?”

https://www.filmstarts.de/kritiken/317223.html

https://www.schiwagofilm.de/project/nodogsallowed/

Apparently, the story is heavily based on the real experiences of a pedo teen who the scriptwriter talked with. Still, seems to me like it’s going to be a rather prejudiced movie.

Prue

From your description, this sounds like a plot which attempts to complicate simplistic images of MAPs as “dirty old men” [itself a demeaning and ageist stereotype for men as they age], by introducing the idea of MAP / pedophilic young people. Most researchers seem to agree that people typically become most aware of their sexual attraction patterns by adolescence, and the same appears true of MAPs who will be getting older but finding they remain significantly attracted to their younger peers. So yes, it sounds good to that extent. Not going to put too much stock in 1 film, but it’s better than a hate screed!

It’s a bit annoying that the term “pedophile” gets thrown around with no qualifiers. A non exclusive Pedophile with a 15YO, sure. Or an exclusive individual w/ a pre pubescent looking 15YO. But, otherwise, it’s muddying the waters and contributing to the hysteria to keep up the charade that anyone attracted to someone from the ages of, say, 14-17, is defacto a “pedophile”. They’re likely not, and the label is not helpful. In that sense, media which contribute to “concept creep” and expansive definitions are part of the problem, even if they may have good aspects.

I know we can’t have everything we wish for all the time, obviously(!), but emphasizing non exclusive vs exclusive attraction is an important step forward IMO. Not even just for MAPs but everyone honestly…

All that is to say: good find! Sounds interesting and I hope it’ll go some ways towards planting the seeds, of changing hearts and minds.

Prue

https://wegotthiscovered.com/social-media/what-happened-to-tiktok-star-inquisitor-his-death-on-tiktok-live-explained/

https://www.gfinityesports.com/gaming-news/cod-cosplayer-inquisitor-ghost-tiktok-live-suicide/

A 200k sub count TikTok cosplayer allegedly hanged himself on stream, while broadcasting to thousands. He had been dogged by claims of ‘grooming’ a minor, after a new editor he had hired (female) turned out to be a 17YO who, in messages w/ her boyfriend, conspired to bait him into flirtatious conversation to then harass him as a ‘groomer’. Seemingly, they took some twisted enjoyment from this… After weeks of intense backlash against him, in a now removed by Tiktok post, he hanged himself…

Whether this is true or not i don’t know, but i remember seeing messages that were posted publicly, talking about setting him up…

The consequence of the “17YO child” bs, pedo panic and the gap between social medias and real-life, being acted out on normies for public spectacle…
Not as crazy as the wild case of https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Eleanor_Williams perhaps, but still messed up all the same. Some ppl need to get off social media and get a life !

Prue

She’s also on Newgon wiki! I’d know, because I was so shocked by the story that I *just had* to make a page on her: https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Eleanor_Williams

[A severly disturbed woman I think we all hope we never meet the likes of…]

Cyril

Bad news, Tom.

PhD Grace Icenogle &al. has informed the US Suprime court that minors cannot control themselves before age 18 and cannot think logically as well as adults do before age 16:

if ‘cognitive capacity reached adult levels around age 16’ why do children study at school? They aren’t able to learn anything before the age of 16, are they? None should be able to read and write before 16th year of life.

Leonerd

minors cannot control themselves before age 18…

They can and could before, but adults have deprived them of their former autonomy and are preventing them from gaining it.

…and cannot think logically as well as adults do before age 16

well, adults think so logically that they killed each other because of they believe in other gods, has other nationality, other skin color and other orientation. According to her, it turns out that “well-developed adult logic” forced them to keep other adults in slavery, forced adult Nazis and Soviet communists to persecute and send adults and children to hard labor camps. Not so long ago, this same special logic explained to adults that homosexuality and transgenderism are a “mental disorder” that can be cured with electric shock. Then suddenly they all realized that it was a big mistake and misconception. So maybe it’s not a matter of the “special adult logic”, but of ordinary human obscurantism, which takes different forms and finds different scapegoats ?

Last edited 4 months ago by Leonerd
matt

Um so why they driving cars then? and how did that moron get a phd?

Joel

Nice new article that you may have missed, referencing and summarizing interesting books. Well worth reading:

Child sexuality and interdependent agency in sexuality education texts for Swedish preschool practitioners 1969−2021: three discourses on children’s sexual play

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14681811.2023.2261382

Prue

A well referenced, brief page made for: https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Theo_Sandfort

Quai
Prue

Quick page made for https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Thore_Langfeldt
[So I can get it out the way, and while I’m on a roll / before I forget…]

And a prev page, more amusing with a few memes to boot, with: https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Vaush

Prue

Made pages for the very refreshingly “real” past scholarship of https://www.newgon.net/wiki/LeRoy_G._Schultz

And the more complex but very based: https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Gisela_Bleibtreu-Ehrenberg

Cyril

The government of Grenada admits that children are able to consent and to obstruct a trial to save MAPs, so changes to the Constitution are demanded to allow trials in a ‘complainant’s’/defendant’s absence:

while the law states that a person under the age of 16 cannot give consent to sexual interactions/intercourse, there are times when consent is given before the age of 16. This is usually the case when a child is in a consensual relationship with the accused. In a case like this, the child will refuse to speak up against the defendant, which can become counterproductive.

HappyHumpingPup

In 1979, ‘Home Office advisers argued that the age of consent be lowered from 16 to 14 and called for a dramatic reduction in statutory punishments for “consensual” sex with girls as young as 12, according to an internal 1979 research study obtained by the Guardian.’ 

We are told: ‘The authors of the study from the Home Office research unit suggested the overall age of consent be lowered so that “sexual behaviour with a girl over the age of 13 (the average age of puberty) is not criminal, provided that she was clearly as aware of what she was doing, and its implication as might be expected of a girl of 16”. Roy Walmsley and Karen White, the authors of the home Office booklet Sexual Offences, Consent and Sentencing, argued that many girls reach puberty before their tenth birthday and may not only want sex but initiate it themselves.’ How lovely, I just wonder where those authors are now? Ah, the 70s, when people in the Home Office thought girls of 13 should be fair game. 

And let’s not forget the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) was gaining some traction among the idiotic and stupid. The Guardian: ‘PIE had been campaigning for the removal of any age of consent, arguing that a child of four should be able to communicate verbally and that at ten the majority of children can communicate their consent or otherwise to a sexual act.’

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/arguments-to-lower-the-age-of-consent-are-naive-and-dangerous/

HappyHumpingPup

20th Century Bold MAP’S pro-active HOT Lolis as young as four, often communicated non-verbally. By mischievous groping, or apeing what they eagerly ogled daily in ‘Family Media’ E.G. ‘Lolling’ on the living room rug, legs splayed, squeeze-tight panties flashing like a Page-3 Girl, while ‘boldly’ smiling at ‘victim’ Bold MAP. And, neo-Victorian 21st Century mild ‘Family Media’ is mocked by PhonePornInTheirPockets Generation-Sext as young as four, or five.

https://parents-together.org/survey-finds-kids-are-exposed-to-sexting-far-younger-than-you-probably-think/

HappyHumpingPup

‘Family Media’ Page-3 link to bare bear fat-nappy Nolan’s Radio 5 £ie$ pal Tony Livesey. Earlier career (now coyly covered up) was WAY down bum/bottom of the bear pit, Editor of yer Sunday/Daily SPORT launched in 1986. 

Porn barons (Loliphiles?) the two Daves Sullivan & Gold most seXreme UK ‘Family Paper’ ever, simply out-seXing Mon$ta Murdoch’s seXy SUN, my son. With front-inside-and-back pages often ‘gymslip white blouse necktie upskirt squeeze tight white panties legs wide models’ making Page-3 girls look like modest nuns. For 15 years UK all-age HOT Lolis ogled and aped the ‘Family Media’ Sport’s HOT ‘schoolgirl’ poses.  

Bold MAP once visited The Sport H.O. to check the archive, where a cute-teen receptionist asked, “Do you like The Sport?” “Yeah, but it still has too much sport!” And, Bold MAP’S friendly corner shop, ‘Sport’ often sold out early, grabbed by leering Laddies & Lolis en-route to skool.

But large sales slumped in Y2K+1 after BAD Map Whiting’s sad Sarah case, when Bold MAP phoned Sport Ed. Livesey who said, paraphrased, “Yeah mate, we know most blokes would never hurt a schoolgirl and many of our readers are Dads, but this bad publicity means the end for our very popular ‘schoolgirl’ type poses.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Sport

Last edited 4 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

Er, HHP’s wild-child style maybe mislead Tom?

NOT fat-nappy Nolan, but his R5 pal ‘Loliphile?’ Tony Livesey.

“‘Family Media’ Page-3 link to bare bear fat-nappy Nolan’s Radio 5 £ie$ pal Tony Livesey. Earlier career (now coyly covered up) was WAY down bum/bottom of the bear pit, Editor of yer Sunday/Daily SPORT launched in 1986.” 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Livesey

matt

All the 16-17 year olds that did page 3 are all dead now, you know? Cos showing your body before 18 kills you. according to loons. (sadly, the majority of people) i think kate moss actually did topless at 15.. shes dead too.

HappyHumpingPup
Prue
HappyHumpingPup

Unstoppable AAMS Lewd or Lascivious acts with MAPS?

E.G. Handyman-gardener to a shared family home Bold MAP was asked by a widowed young Mom not to allow her 4yo HOT Loli on his lap, unless in a

[MOD: CENSORED]

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
matt

Ive been called a rapist on YT, twitter (they wernt censored!!!) why si this not a crime??? and i was only talking about 16 year olds ! oh do i wish i could say soemthing back, but of course I would be ostricised….

PAT

If you value free speech, you have to understand that free speech must extend to those you dislike. Without free speech, freedom dies.

Ed Chambers

I would guess at least 80% of the population would confirm free speech dies when the topic extends beyond their comfort zone.

Leonerd

Corporations and the media have taught people to be intolerant of uncomfortable opinions and to not accept neutrality. If harsh statements are not blocked, then this is perceived as encouragement and support, and the site owners are blamed for this. People were taught to “social justice” which is more correctly called “social sterility” and “collective censorship”.

matt

i mean, ok, but they can say stuff like that to me, but i cant say anyhting back?? wheres the free speech there? of course, free speech includes advocates killing of maps, but if i call them for example, psycho, i get censored??

PAT

Interesting article regarding the AOC in light of the Russell Brand trial by media. I am a great fan of Brand for exposing what is going on in the World regarding military industrial complex, vaccines, War, MSM bias and censorship.

This article came up on Conservaitve Woman that is great for current affairs that they avoid on the mainstream channels. You get the usual pedo hysteria when discussing AOC lews but was pleasantly surprised with some of the more old school libertarian conservatives. Many noted historical ages of marriage and the old AOC before 1885. I am sick of MAPs being compared with the Trans lobby, I have never had any interest in people who dress up but those who have body dysmorphia should be treated fairly but not put onto puberty blockers that can have irreversible consequences.
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/arguments-to-lower-the-age-of-consent-are-naive-and-dangerous/

Leonerd

Yet another Karen who had read a lot of horror CSA stories in mass media.

What I’m saying is that the views on what should be the age of consent go in and out of fashion. When being ‘socially liberal’ is all the rage, people want to lower it. In the era of #MeToo, people want it raised. Clearly, the motivation of those previously calling for lowering the age of consent is very different. One was for public health reasons, but others such as PIE always lurk in the corner and their reasons are purely evil and exploitative.

Ok, the first three sentences are acceptable, but then it reveals that she is completely out of real context.

This is why arguments to lower the age of consent are always for the naive and gullible: given the amount of sexual exploitation of children and teenagers which has been revealed in the last two decades; from Jimmy Savile to the Catholic Church, the US gymnastics team and Asian grooming gangs, children and teenagers deserve greater protection not less. People might be ‘experts’ in the area of mental health but they are clearly fools when it comes to understanding the dark side of human nature

Typical ignorance, exaggeration and drama.
All her thoughts are based only on loud media.

matt

the POLICE exploit teens but people are too stupid to realise! yes thye quite happily look at teens nudes on their phones without their consent! its their job? *&%$ off

Perplexed

It’s not all, or even mostly, exaggerated. It is a real problem, that has to be dealt with. It stems from our deprivaton of youthful autonomy. They are wards, property, and not agents unto themselves. We deprive them of this in almost every regard. By default this makes practically all our interactions with them exploitative. And harmful, in great ways and small. Priests, teachers, parents, police, and any other authority figure should not be weilding any coercive or manipulative power over children or adolescents, and yet this is exactly what we empower all these figures to do. Do not discount abuse, or unethical dynamics at play- even if an individual encounter was benign, it doesn’t negate the fact that the coercive, formal power differential exists, and cannot help but play a part. People are not going to take the time to parse out if a priest, teacher, parent, or cop was actively exercising coercion or manipulation- the mere fact that you hold power over the child or youth is sufficient to cry foul play. And there’s no reason people shouldn’t, because that dynamic is lurking in the background, even if it wasn’t at the fore of anyone’s mind, if you can really pretend that it plays no role at all, which is truly a stretch. If you cannot account for this, then you are simply reinforcing the very point you deride.

Last edited 5 months ago by Perplexed
PAT

As someone said, the best lies are those that have some truth in them.

ThisWreckage

As someone both trans and MAP, I’m part of both lobbies and I see clearly that appropriate, gender-affirming care for young trans people is just as valid as affirming their sexualities.

HappyHumpingPup

As close followers of the Comments space will recollect, Heretic TOC has been approached by a team of researchers in Germany who are seeking participants for a MAP-focused online questionnaire they have put out.

WILL THERAPY SET YOU FREE?

Briefly, the questionnaire is for MAPs who have undergone “any kind of treatment or therapy” in connection with their sexual orientation and have dropped out of doing so for some reason. The stated aim is to explore why they have dropped out, in order to “identify approaches to tailor treatment services more closely to the needs of MAPs”. The researchers emphasise that “It is explicitly not our position that all MAPs need therapy or require treatment”.

Since Swingin’ 69 Bold MAP voluntarily attended ‘therapy’ 4-times over the years. Psycho-talking/Hypno-aversion/Group-talking/SOTP-aversion.

Where Bold MAP set the therapists (and co-attendees) FREE of their fake ‘Dominant Narrative’ mass-media mind raped misconceptions – about pro-active affirmative AAMS.

E.G. An SOTP ‘victim’ dad-daughter abuser not amuser, was finally brainwashed to say, “I now can’t see how any child can ever find an adult sexually attractive.” So, Bold MAP helpfully FREED the whole group and flustered facilitators with, “So small boys and girls don’t wank over Glamour Pinups and Pop Stars in ‘Family Media’?”

HappyHumpingPup

Next logical therapies, to FREE:

1) Pro-active AAMS from any stigma, for fancying or fucking consenting MAPS.
2) Pro-active therapists from fixating on a proven mere 10% CSA while perversely neglecting c.90% NON-Sex serious child abuses creating millions more child victims than mere consentual sex.
3) Pro-active Anglo fake mass media and moralising tax-dodge Victorian charities. From creating and exploiting their decades ongoing fake Child Sex Witchunt Panic ‘Dominant Narrative’ for Ratings & PROFIT from their kept dumb shallow ignorant mugs. De-fuckto a fake ‘Child Protection Racket’ deviously masked as so called ‘Child Protection’. A neo-Victorian ‘New Patriotism’ fake-virtue waving – last refuge of scoundrels.

[MOD: CUT: TLDR.]

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
Prue

Pages made for https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Eberhard_Schorsch and https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Gunter_Schmidt

Both German researchers who were, at various points in time, sympathetic to MAPs and, to varying degrees, sympathetic to mutual, non-violent, adult-child sexual interaction.

(Schmidt became less sympsathetic over time and I highly recommend reading his articles The Dilemma of the Male Pedophile, and his response to the criticism of Bruce Rind and Paul Okami, in Is There Nothing Special About Adult–Child Sex? They’re both linked in the references on his page).

If anyone wishes to add anything or suggest input, you’d be most welcome 🙂

HappyHumpingPup

First ‘Lolita’ era, Rockin’ 50s two AAM HOT Lolis, 11.

Brenda Lee WOLF-WHISTLES tall handsome BIG bassman!

Today, VictimsRacket tagged ‘serious sexist abuse’. Abused victims and vile abusers all need seXpensive therapy BIG Help?

2m.09s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yic3I7AuUvo

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
Prue

Tom, you got mentioned! :p

In Reduxx’s continued efforts to monster trans / gender identity research by associating it with MAP research, they’ve gone after not just Volkmar Sigusch, but now Thore Langfeldt, who wrote about children’s sexuality in the 70’s and 80’s, and attended and published out-of the 1979 love and attraction conference (libgen PDF link). There are some interesting historical claims…

It turns out he later became interested in issues of gender identity, with connections to the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH)…

Although we should all be mindful of the framing and language, this seems to be one of the author’s most well-researched and well-written articles, probably bc the subject of the article is still alive…

See: https://genevievegluck.substack.com/p/norwegian-sexologist-linked-to-leading

Prue

“Sorry didn’t tell you straight away”

> No worries bud. Even looking through the comments section here yesterday, I thought there’s *so much* stuff coming at you that it must be hard to keep up sometimes.

And no worries I haven’t made a page on Thore Langfeldt yet, bc the write up about him I’m finding a pain to summarize. So, will prob do something small about him, as I’m really wanting to do speedy speedy pages on some of the (to me) more obscure academics outside the English-speaking world. Particularly Gunter Schmidt and Eberhard Schorch.

Not to add to you load, dear Tom, but for anyone interested I made a page on Nicholas Syrett, a historian who has written on positively experienced youth/adult / child marriage, and discusses the changing history of “age” itself, how we relate to this category, giving reasons for how and why it was not as important in the past.

His relevant publications have links to free PDFs in the references. See: https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Nicholas_Syrett

Cyril
Yuki

I sent them an email and told them that they are selling shirts that are in violation of human rights. Let’s see what they write back.

Yuki

They have now been removed.

Yuki

Well, i need to make a correction. They only removed one design (the one that was linked here). I will wait a bit and write them again if they don’t remove them later. I wonder what their reasoning for keeping them is.

Leonerd

Well, actually, blocking and deleting MAPs accounts on Twitter and YouTube is also a violation of human rights. Will people admit it? No. The Declaration of Human Rights clearly states that people should not be persecuted on the basis of gender, race or sexual orientation, and everyone has the right to freely associate, receive and impart information. However, no one performed this either during the oppression of gays, or now during the oppression of the MAPs.

Do you think bigots care about torture messages on T-shirts ? A few years ago, in the sci-fi series “Westworld” featured an episode about a black boy and his mysterious friend with a dog. The viewer is later shown that this friend was a man who took an interest in the boy, coming to the school playground and allowing the boy to play with his dog. The boy’s mother found out about this and while the boy was away, she strangled the man and took his dog (well, she was just an evil android, doesn’t matter) The episode actually approves of the murder of MAPs. Did this cause any outrage? No. But when a white man smears his face with black paint in a comedy series, this leads to a wave of indignation and the blocking of the episode allegedly for racism, despite the fact that it is a comedy.

Last edited 5 months ago by Leonerd
HappyHumpingPup

>”T-shirts demanding torturing MAPs are sold for €23.”

So, market and make millions Worldwide at just $5 Bucks a pair: ‘Sex4All’ squeeze tight white panties for pro-active affirmative HOT Lolis.

[MOD: REMAINDER CENSORED]

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
matt

euros? i thought they would be far more popular in gun totin` murica

Prue

https://doi.org/10.1080/14681811.2023.2251896

“I wouldn’t want you talking to my kids!”: the politics of age when conducting research about porn with young people

Claire Meehan (2023)

ABSTRACT

Much research has been conducted on young people as a population rather than with them. Traditionally, porn research has focused on effects – on the assumption that people, especially young people, are impacted by the sexual media they consume, which leads to negative outcomes such as violence and addiction. In this sense, porn is framed as risky and children and young people become especially ‘at risk’. Sex, sexuality and sexual media are then portrayed as a threat from which young people should be protected. Nevertheless, for many young people watching porn is a normal activity and engaging with porn online is a part of everyday life for some teenagers. Scholars have indicated that many young people perceive porn as ubiquitous, as part of society, and difficult to avoid. In this reflexive article I will interrogate the need for such research, even if it is considered as a form of ‘dirty work’, within an alarmist and sensationalist media-driven culture.

[Looks very based]

Perplexed

Things will start to change as the generations raised with internet, ubiquitous porn, sexting, and online sex play replace the pre-internet generations. It will be something of a generational showdown, I think. Millennials and Gen Z will represent the old puritanical belief system in that fight, but will have been “gentle parents”- and been the generation of MeToo. Which means they are more likely to listen to what younger generations have to say, than current older generations are. More likely to listen instead of pulling rank to say “I know better than you, and you’ll get more conservative as you get older”- which has demonstrably not happened with younger generations. The younger generations will indeed have things to say, having had many of these experiences themselves, and be positioned in a better place to talk about it, courtesy of the internet. It’s part of the endless cycle of the next generation questioning the why, how, and what of what society does. The MeToo component means they will listen to “victims”- although they will have to deal with the pushback from “victims” insisting that they’re not. Hence, I do think it will still be a showdown. Just as it was for gay people, who also had to contend with bad psychology and moralism masquerading as science.

And to younger, more secular generations who value science above religious faith, the questions as to why we aren’t putting more stock into scientific research on the subject, over hysterics and puritanical ideas about sex, is inevitably starting to come up.

And conservatives will further push things in that direction with their crying wolf- their inevitably discredited witch hunts, conspiracy theories, and attempts to roll things back socially to the 1950s.

Yes, the convergence of cosmic forces is fast coming upon us.

Last edited 5 months ago by Perplexed
APG

For Adults Only? Young People and (Non)Participation in Sexual Decision Making – Allison Moore, 2013 (sagepub.com)

The term ‘participation’ is often used to refer to children and young people’s involvement in decision-making processes but it also denotes the individual decisions that they make about their everyday lives. With regards to sexuality, children and young people are routinely excluded from policy formation and decision-making processes, due to assumptions about their sexual immaturity and lack of competence. The right of children to participate in the decisions that affect their lives is enshrined in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC), but the articles of the UNCRC are commonly grouped into three categories referred to as the ‘3Ps’: protection rights, provision rights and participation rights. This article will argue that, because of the refusal to recognise the sexually agentic child, children’s protection rights outweigh their participation rights. Recognising the right to participate in sexual decision-making requires children’s protection rights to be balanced with their rights to participation

Prue

Amazing that people write and publish these things. It’s also significant that it seems to be women nowadays publishing more on MAP-related topics, particularly children’s sexuality.

Perhaps many women have a keen sense of BS around the silences and, as the author puts it, “assumptions about their sexual immaturity and lack of competence”? After all, in my experience and – I’m pretty sure in research literature too – it is young females with older men who make up the largest proportion of intergen sexual interaction. And, if we are to believe or accept that females are socialized to care more about their appearance and thus tend towards self-sexualization and being sexualized by others, it makes sense that academically inclined women especially, as they grow older and encounter writings about listening and platforming the experiences of girls, they would see the denial of girl’s agency as obvious bullshit.

Whether they choose to speak out about the matter either personally or more personally distanced, is another matter. But I suspect that a lot of highly educated women are hiding their power levels and would have a lot of pro-c things to say on the matter if they felt safe and supported to do so. As one [boring] paper I read put it, women have “a greater need for affiliation”, i.e. women are typically more conscious of how they appear socially. So yh, the more women (and men) publish along these lines and create a supportive environment and a social, and perhaps economic incentive (w/ academic jobs) to speak out, the more we will see publications like this.

What we really need is academics and interested parties to get involved in law and policy making, think tanks etc. Bodies and groups that can influence policy. There’s a lot of literature to set the stage: what’s needed is to keep going and act on it…

Perplexed

So many youth attracted persons (including a large number of commenters on this site) think women and feminists are the enemy. They think the patriarchal subliminization of sex by such institutions as the Church, Scouts, and the Nuclear Family model, and Marriage (driven by a misguided and horrendous pining for child brides), was better, and how things should be. But these people betray themselves to be the very monster people are afraid of- for all these things involve abuses of power. Dynamics based on control. Power. And secrecy (even if it’s an open secret). Because regardless of the particulars of any given relationship, the fact is that the formal position of authority exists- the formality of the subjugator and the subjugated. The oppressor and the oppressed.

But the truth is quite the opposite. All the fears regarding the predatory behavior of men- including youth attracted men- arise from these institutionalized imbalances of power. Where men are agents for themselves, and the rulers of others. It is in feminism, in equality- in all the woke social justice stuff they deride- that the solution is offered. Because it seeks to make all people agents unto themselves.

The problems with the progressive movements is that they inevitably have to compromise with and get corrupted and subdued by the old patriarchal, religious, conservative forces of society. It’s a strange alchemical force that I’ll need an entire treatise to explain. But it’s how Queer Theory gets watered down into LGBT+ politics. How Feminism gets watered down into girl-bossing. How CRT gets watered down into tokenism.

In any case, the fact is that queer people and feminists are going to be allies- just as they were in the 60s and 70s. And that will be for a variety of amalgamated reasons- not unrelated to the same reasons they were allies in the 60s and 70s. The present antagonism isn’t going to last, nor can it. Nor should youth attracted persons align themselves with the likes of the Andrew Tates, Jordan Petersons, and Matt Walshes of the world. Nor uphold the likes of the Catholic Church, the Boy Scouts, or Marriage, or other such conservative/fascist institutions.

Perplexed

I might devote a paragraph or two explaining how progressivism inevitably gets coopted by conservatism. Because it’s a process that needs to be understood, how radical movements become institutionalized and conservative (eg gay marriage). But what I really want to demonstrate is the current tensions and forces at play, and how they are likely to play out over the coming decades. And give an idea of what approaches will work and what approaches won’t work, and why. How the future still lies in the tugging at the threads of the unraveling heteronormative, allonormative, religious, conservative patriarchy.

Nada

That screed certainly supports the hypothesis that feminists are the enemy.

Do tell GL men what you have to offer, apart from obvious glee at their suffering (a new low, I believe), nonsense and the usual ever-increasing queer/feminist oppression.

HappyHumpingPup

Pro-AAM/MAP Tina’s TOP Comment:
@tinapatton7346: “But among today’s fake media MASS MIND RAPED MUGS. Any lucky little girl that says she GLEEFULLY BEDDED A BEATLE is falsely tagged ‘RAPE VICTIM’ – WTF?! Get the f**k outta here d’ya hear?!”

The Beatles Rare Vintage Beatlemania – THIS LITTLE GIRL
Remo Williams 395 subscribers Subscribe 1.6K 189,417 views 19 Jul 2012;
A compilation of wild and chaotic scenes of Beatlemania as crowds lose there minds to John, Paul, George and Ringo. I’m not familiar with the the song they are performing ‘This Little Girl’ but it perfectly captures the irony as girls are lost in the emotion of the moment. Emotion Frenzy!! Must have been fun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJs3Aytbybg

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
MenAreCowards

As others have pointed out, there is a huge hypocrisy in that certain ‘legends’ of the past are well attested to have had relations with so-called ‘underaged’ girls. I mean, Bowie, Iggy Pop, Jimmy Page et al. And yet no fuss is made about it. They always go for the minor pop stars. I guess Jagger and Richards are just too important in the culture. I hate all those pop stars of the sixties, because they enjoyed young girls and now either remain silent during the pedohysteria like most cowardly men, or even join in the persecution, like Michael Caine who has recently joined the ranks of some ‘child protection’ organisation. Are we really to believe Caine never bedded a fourteen year old back in the sixties?

Heads up, by the way, and the next scandal is going to be the violinist Joshua Bell. There is so much jealous gossip on the message boards by past it hags concerning his fondess of pretty teenage violinists, girls not boys.

[MODERATOR: Not a great idea to spread rumours without evidence. However, a quick check shows there has been gossip about him out there on social media for many years, so I see no point in hiding the clear fact that there are indeed rumours.]

HappyHumpingPup

The ‘revised’ Caine/Micklewhite recently atesticle-ated that younger wives are his secret to a long life. But carefully erased from his current comments are his star misogynist ‘Alfie’, 1966 and ‘Get Carter’ 1971 where his disillusioned tough guy character’s schoolgirl neice is briefly seen smiling in a home-movie porn flick.

Similarly, bad-joke Bond/Connery is now too embarrassed to acknowledge his starring role in (ex WW2 veteran dir Sidney Lumet’s) “The Offence”, 1973. Where tough top tec Connery is goaded by a sniggering suspect MAP to admit to himself that he would like to pin a wriggling schoolgirl to the ground.

Lumet’s personal experience of supposed ‘normal’ family men turned MAP, cums from his witnessing tough U.S. G.I.s assembled at a postwar Manilla train station where desperate Phillipino kids scrambled for scraps. And then on board the train Lumet entered a compartment where a Phillipine 12yo HOT Loli was being gang-raped by brave U.S. Troops returning home ‘victorious’.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/michael-caine-wife-age-great-escaper-b2417459.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZznVIPsqsgE

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
Prue

Wanted to spotlight something I came across that I am so, so proud of, and hope you’ll all take a look over:

Newgon videos! Yes, you heard that right! I do not yet know who’s making them, but there’s a youtube channel and FST channel where you can find informative, concise videos which condense down the info from various Newgon pages into digestible form. Using the voice of David Attenborough and others, I think it’s great to see these brilliant attempts at alternative media content.

I particularly recommend the two personal profiles, both of which are based on pages made by me. Check out:

[I got emotional watching this one; I was so, so proud to see the research I did being summarized and making it into a video. Esp. considering this article contains independent research / connections made by myself, not just copy-pasting from Wikipedia etc.]

Definitely worth a look and hope you’ll find one you like 🙂

Leonerd

I completely agree.
I really liked the video Rainbow Revisionism
We need more similar videos and podcasts.

Ed Chambers

Yes, a number of great videos recently on FST. I think Strat has made a number of the good ones, ie with the voice of Attenborough.

Dissident

Thank you for letting us know about the Newgon channel, Prue. And for your great contributions to the page that ended up on the channel! I’ve been part of Newgon for ages, having once served on the administration, yet I wasn’t made aware of this directly.

I do not expect it to be up on YouTube for long, because censorship has commonly been used to suppress all the literature and research supporting MAPs ever since the moral panics started. But as a community, we persevere, and we have never been silenced completely–just pushed to the margins. I hope Newgon considers a mirror channel on Rumble, and I will talk to the current admin about it.

Ed Chambers

FST is a safe bet, forget YouTube.

Strat

In fact, even the Yesmap server is struggling to establish who is responsible for these videos. So it is officially unofficial.

We have been saving them on fstube.net for posterity.

AnonyMAP

One argument often given in defense of age of consent laws is that they (supposedly) reduce the rates of teenage pregnancy, which is assumed to have negative/harmful effects.

A 2023 study published in the Demography journal failed to find evidence of a causal link between teen pregnancy and psychological problems in adulthood, concluding that “it seems increasingly likely that causal effects of young motherhood are small or nonexistent, or in some cases confined to relatively advantaged segments of the population who are unlikely to experience young motherhood in any case.” A professor of demographics commented thusly on the study:

There’s an article in demography saying anti-teen-pregnancy policies are not justified because Teen Pregnancy Is Fine After All… and it’s not [sic] by anybody even vaguely on the right! i’m gonna be honest i find this paper fairly shocking.

There are numerous papers that found that children born to teenage mothers are more likely to have behavioral problems and lower intelligence. This recent study tested the causality of this finding by using polygenic scores (PGS) to control for the confounding effects of parental intelligence. After controlling for this confound, children born to teenage mothers were found to have higher IQ scores on average than children born to older mothers.

Here is a comment on this study by a statistician with a large following on Twitter:

The relationship between parental age and kids’ intelligence is nonlinear and indicates harms for younger parents.

But that is because of selection.

If you adjust with edutainment polygenic scores, you can see that parental age is negatively related to kids’ intelligence.

Last edited 5 months ago by AnonyMAP
MenAreCowards

Biological anthropology? Yet another pseudoscience subject of the kind who gladly gave themselves to the kind of eugenics so beloved of the National Socialists. Who cares about these academic scum? Their opinions are as worthless as those on this blog.

AnonyMAP

Thank you for posting my comment on Sexnet to get feedback. I’ll reply to the last comment.

Children born to younger parents have less mutational load. There will be a little boost in their IQ than if they had been born to same parents at an older age.

That sounds mostly right to me. If you had written “born to the same parents or to different parents of equivalent intelligence at an older age”, I would have agreed completely. I think you’re missing my point, though, which is that teenage pregnancy doesn’t have negative effects on offspring intelligence. In the past, people have claimed that teenage pregnancy is bad for fetal cognitive development and that this explains why children born to teenage mothers have lower IQs on average. This paper provides evidence against that claim. After adjusting for parental intelligence with PGS, it found a linear negative correlation between parental age and offspring IQ, with children born to teenagers having slightly higher IQ scores on average than children born to older parents.

But what teen mothers have IQs even close to the population average? The children would probably have much higher IQs had their mother waited and reproduced with a father who had a stable job, not some dropkick.

That’s irrelevant to my point. It’s also not necessarily true in every time and place. Teenage pregnancy is stigmatized in the modern West, and research has shown that it’s more common among the lower classes, which tend to have lower IQs. Children born to teenage parents tend to have lower IQs because their parents tend to have lower IQs, and not because teenage pregnancy itself causes lower IQ.

The paper does not find that children born to single mothers have “higher IQ scores than children born to older mothers”.

What the study found is that children born to teen parents have slightly higher IQ scores than they would have if they had either been born to the same parents at an older age, or to different older parents of equivalent intelligence.

Rather, children born to younger fathers will have less mutational load and thus, slightly greater IQ scores.

The study isn’t about “single mothers”. It’s about determining whether parental age itself, rather than unrelated characteristics of the parents (such as their intelligence and genetics), correlates with offspring IQ. What you’re saying applies both to younger mothers and to younger fathers, as this chart clearly shows. It doesn’t just apply to younger fathers.

Last edited 5 months ago by AnonyMAP
Leonerd

One argument often given in defense of age of consent laws is that they (supposedly) reduce the rates of teenage pregnancy, which is assumed to have negative/harmful effects.

Еarly pregnancy occurs not because people allegedly had “early sex”, but because they did not have an open option to purchase contraceptives due to shame and sex-negative prejudices. Current sex education is overdue and focuses on abstinence. The accident is not a consequence of driving, but of not following the driving rules.

matt

11 year old in Ohio could face prosecution after being dolicited for nude pics by guy in 30s…
glad they got their priorities right? psychopaths,, am i ok to share link? so you can read this horror story (of which is happening all over the land of the jail)

Perplexed

Video shows officer repeatedly discussed charging 11-year-old victim with child sexual abuse offense | AP News

There are laws in most states now that address this issue. Ohio seems to be late to the party.

Perplexed

Yes, laws that prevent children from being charged.

I’m not working on anything at present, but I certainly want to. I’m just waiting for something to strike me. I have a few ideas, but nothing concrete yet. I want to have something done at some point before the end of the year.

matt

interesting that they deem the girl capable of producing it… but apparently its illegal as they are innocent? such hypocrisy and madness , but then usa is a bit of a country of lunatics…. am i allowed to say that? bit similar to the protection given to 17 year olds here by not letting them drink .. but will punish them for attempting to buy it? people have no right sayign any one on here abuses children when they make laws like this….

Perplexed

Religion is one hell of a drug. People still believe in deterrence theory. People love the police. People love punishment and suffering. The United States, like all Anglospheric countries, is fundamentally conservative and puritanical.

Ed Chambers

I think the general idea is you post (Inc links) and Tom moderates.

HappyHumpingPup

Body Guilt and Shame.

https://www.google.com/search?q=body+guilt+and+shame&oq=body+guilt+and+shame&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30l3j0i390i650l3.7626j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Sex Shame and Guilt.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sex+shame+and+guilt&oq=sex+shame+and+guilt&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i15i22i30j0i390i650l4.6778j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

‘Sex4All’ – a new universally popular movement with BIG slogan on all apparel and ad spaces Worldwide (small motto “antis need HELP!”)

(All rights reserved HappyHumpingPup, Sept 2023, all proceeds to HTOC.)

https://www.google.com/search?q=sport4all&oq=sport4all&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0i20i263i512j0i512l2j0i20i263i512j0i512j0i30j69i61.4540j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

HappyHumpingPup

Quote two HOT Loli twins, “Mommy, Mommy, for our seXy siXth birthday we want some ‘Sex4All’ white knickers so we can flaSh them to your seXy new boyfriend who we both fancy now he gets HARD when we wriggle and giggle on his lap.”

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

Good ask Boss, and what to do (but love) incorrigble AAMS based on lifelong ‘Love & Peace Generation’ positive seXperiences. Now demonised and moneytised by negative neo Victorian ‘War & Hate Generating’ antis – TOSSERS!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPuCssUhbBQ

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
Prue

This Youtube video you linked has some amazing comments in the comments section.

Such gems as “I was a groupie in the mid-1970s. Best years of my life! […] Girl’s today don’t know what they’re missing”

HappyHumpingPup

Incorrigible 20th Century pro-active/affirmative AAMs.

Child Minder Bold MAP had to carry two HOT Lolis, 8 & 9, across a muddy winter park to the dry-tarmac play area. En route, the swaying gymnast leggy HOT Loli, 9, let her free hand swing down to repeatedly brush …

[MOD: CENSORED]

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
warbling j turpitude

Kathleen Stock seems such a warm amd winning sort of girl-sausage otherwise but here the brazen presuppositions undergirding everything said render her entire article a largely superfluous indulgence, one that, for the millionth time, serves before anything else to verily sing of how utterly intrinsic the idea of paedophilia is to the ongoing generation, sustenance and maintenance of unconscious public desire…
https://unherd.com/2023/09/can-paedophilia-ever-be-a-thought-experiment/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups%5B0%5D=18743&tl_period_type=3

Last edited 5 months ago by warbling j turpitude
MenAreCowards

Could you elaborate? Are you saying that paedophilia is intrinsic to today’s youth? I am not going to read the article as it will no doubt make me angry.

warbling j turpitude

Perhaps “disavowed” would have been a better choice of word than “unconscious” desire. The kind of disavowal intrinsic to that whole cultural operation by which we see children as, among other things, sweet, innocent, vacant, smooth-skinned, spontaneous and mischievous – at the very same time constructing the desirable ideal as, among other things, sweet, innocent, vacant, smooth-skinned, spontaneous and mischievous. The obsession with paedophilia might be most simply characterised as the outraged sense that some bounder other than oneself has dared to cast his shadow over this very ideal, situated as it is at dead center of our entire cultural malaise..

warbling j turpitude

It would seem that some deadly earnest tosser has flagged your comment already Tom, for scrolling through the whole damn lot of ’em just now it is nowhere to be found. Can only hope the mods have their heads still screwed on and restore it asap. My own comment at one of the Brand-related essays was thusly flagged, but pretty soon managed to pass Unherd muster (sic) …and why, even got some upvotes!

Last edited 5 months ago by warbling j turpitude
Ed Chambers

A lot of the usual rhetoric in the article, as already pointed out. Trying to see the glass half full, the author does well to point out we should be allowing the academic freedoms Kershner was punished for using.

Leonerd

She writes:

For instance, he discusses a situation where there exist children who are “precocious and fully grasp the different dimensions of sex like some precocious children can grasp the different dimensions of music and mathematics” (and moreover where, presumably. we could somehow reliably test for this understanding). The relevance to the actual world, where children are not actually precocious in this way and sex is nothing relevantly like mathematics or music, is totally obscure.

Here she uses common victimological and sex-negative misconceptions and makes no attempt to be neutral. Not some children are precociously developed, but on the contrary, most children are artificially inhibited in their development by Puritan society. “Sex” is no different from studying mathematics and music. This is the same natural activity that develops and brings satisfaction.

Novels can do this stuff much better. Lolita can tell you what is wrong with paedophilia much more powerfully than any dry fictional construct from a bloodless academic.

It’s shifting to the negative side again. Ok, if she likes books, how about this.Voor een verloren soldaat – a Dutch autobiographical novel written by choreographer Rudi van Dantzig about his youth during World War II. In 1992, a film was made based on this story, also called “For the Lost Soldier.”
Both the book and the film are one of the positive examples, not being a fiction of the “perverted” mind of the writer, to which she could refer to in order to defend her negative point of view. The author described his own experience of positive inter-generational relationships
I would be glad if someone repeated this post in the comments under her article.

matt

Ok, im not completely stupid, but could you simplify that post please? I know people have better vocabulary than me on here, but…

warbling j turpitude

Ok i will try to simplify. The image of a perfectly-formed but elusive child is the one from which our culture’s erotic ideal is essentially derived. The more closely a grown-up/legal person can manage to approximate such qualities = the more desirable they are (The erotic is always several steps ahead of the plainly sexual). But god forbid anyone ever try to ‘close the gap’ between image and the actual model on which it is based = the child itself.

Haha…how did i do?

matt

nope, still struggling… you mean, instead of looking, moving on to actual sex??
anyway, this whole image thing is a bit absurd… im not sure what you are equating to as a child, but by my book, (and science) its soemone before puberty..
i cant even look at my old page 3s from the 90s as they feature 16 yr olds and i am abusingthem by looking at them…. yes they were legal then if anyone asks. (actually i dont even have any im just puttign that idea out there.)

HappyHumpingPup

By such typically perverse Anglo anti-logic an AAM ogling an adult is either a self made ‘victim’, or an ‘offender’ victimising that adult?

HappyHumpingPup

Consent culture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_movement

Sex-positive movement emphasizes and supports the importance of consent in sexual encounters. Consent is the first and most basic form of respect between people when engaging in sexual activities. The negotiation and form of communication when discussing consent is the most important aspect when promoting healthy sexual relationships. Consent culture promotes affirmative consent, encourages enthusiastic consent, and the importance of consent education to foster healthy and respectful sexual relations. Consent gives a way to articulate and legitimize our moral judgments in public.

Affirmative consent describes the explicit, informed, and voluntary assent to engage in sexual behavior. Anyone engaging in sexual interactions is responsible for making sure that the other party or parties have given their direct consent without hesitation. Absence of protest, words, or action does not mean consent, and silence will never be a form of consent. There should be no expectation of protest or opposition.

A positive expression of consent is the main focus of enthusiastic consent. Invoking enthusiastic consent entails focusing on the presence of a “yes” as opposed to the absence of a “no.” It can be communicated vocally or nonverbally using encouraging body language. These include nodding, maintaining eye contact, and smiling, as examples of body language. It is significant to remember that while these may infer consent, they do not represent explicit affirmative consent, always get verbal confirmation. The key to maintaining a healthy sexual relationship and consent is to regularly check in with one’s partner or partners to make sure they are comfortable and that their opinions have not changed.

Quote Bold MAP, “Always get affirmative consent. E.G. A mid-20th Century affirmative HOT Loli, 6, on a quiet grassy knoll learning of teens regularly copulating there, ‘Let’s DO it!’ Pulled her panties down and excitedly straddled an unprepared Bold MAP, but then said, ‘THAT’S no good. YOU get on top!’ Affirmative, or demanding to the point of abusive?”

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

Bold MAP, ‘Affirmative Consent’. Part Two of WAY too many to retell here.

WAY back Bold MAP, 14, with HOT Loli cousin, 11, quote, “I’ve got the keys to my friend’s house while she’s on holiday with her family…

[MOD: CENSORED]

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
Strat

Unsubstantiated claims (in the latest “updates”) that Ballard is facing a probe for his maneuverings in Canoa.

https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Essay:The_Gruesome_Consequences_of_a_Hysterical_Witch_Hunt

Strat

Concerns this:

https://twitter.com/lahistoriaec/status/1702455118350713039

Officials can’t find the many victims. They must have been hidden in tunnels.

Ed Chambers

All if his virtue signalling and underhand tactics finally coming back around for him. In his case, I couldn’t care less if these allegations are unsubstantiated or otherwise. Throw him to the dogs, in the same manner he threw others.

Leonerd

New book has become available: “Ideological and Political Bias in Psychology: Nature, Scope, and Solutions” (2023) The book features a chapter from Bruce Rhind “Sacred Values, Politics, and Moral Panic: A Potent Mix Biasing the Science behind Child Sexual Abuse and Related Phenomena” and also a chapter from Michael Bailey

Fillip’s post on BC
https://boychat.org/messages/1617342.htm

Prue

I found out about this new chapter, looked up the book and came here to post about it, and someone’s beat me to it! :p

Happy days anyway, there seems to be lots of interesting chapters well worth thinking about and that, I’m sure, would generate discussion. I’m half way through Rind’s chapter…

HappyHumpingPup

Among a pro-MAP Holy Femme Trinty: Levine, Silva, Hewson.

Late great leading lawyer barrister Barbara Hewson was involved in controversy in 2013, after the Press Officer of the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) strongly urged her to remove or reword an article she had written for the online magazine Spiked on 8 May entitled “Yewtree is Destroying the Rule of Law,” Hewson’s article criticised the role of the NSPCC (which she called a “moral crusader”) and the Metropolitan Police in treating complainants as “victims” in the wake of the Savile scandal, and the proliferation of prosecutions of elderly defendants. She had observed that the crimes of television presenter Stuart Hall (who had pleaded guilty to numerous charges of indecent assault on girls as young as 8) constituted ‘misdemeanor offences’, as opposed to crimes like rape and murder.

Hewson had proposed that there be a statute of limitations for criminal sex offences; that complainant anonymity be removed, and that the Age Of Consent, which was raised by the Criminal Law (Amendment) Act 1885 should be changed back to the previous age of thirteen.

In December 2019, Hewson was suspended from practising for two years for alleged ‘offensive’ social media comments responding to proven offensive attacks on her. However, Mr Justice Pepperall later reduced the suspension to one year but said it was based on “significant evidence of additional mitigating circumstances” in Hewson’s terminal cancer diagnosis which were not before the Bar tribunal. In this way, Hewson died with her bar privileges intact.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/13/remembering-barbara-hewson/

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

4 / 7:58
Barbara Hewson interview over her controversial child sex abuse comments (Channel 4 News, 8.7.13)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DR6EEl0H64

Prue

Like the death of Barbara Hewson, we’ve lost another sympathetic individual: French philosopher Rene Scherer. He died in February this year, aged 100.

As part of a tribute to Schérer after his death, his friend a former sexual partner Patrick Schindler gives a brief account of minor-iniated sexual activity, arguing that Schérer was not a pedophile or advocate for sexual activity between pre-pubescents and older people:

I must point out that when I went to his house the many times with my friend Guy P. (who was one of his lovers), I always knew René to be in a relationship with consenting minors over the age of eighteen (obviously at the time the majority were 21 years old, so…!). And that I affirm loud and clear!

Anecdotally, at sixteen, therefore a minor, I was part of the MLJ (Mouvement de Libération de la Jeunesse) which called for total liberation, especially sexual. That year I had had one of my first homosexual experiences with R., a friend of my mother’s, and I can swear that it was really me who initiated it! Today, this wouldn’t be serious since the age of consent is now 15, but at the time, imagine the trial my partner would have had!…

https://autonomies.org/2023/03/for-rene-scherer-1922-2023-an-anarchist-ic-life/

I have updated the page for him with more info about his thought, the latter of which focuses on the figure of the ‘immigrant’ or ‘stranger’, as well as his rejection of identity politics, including the injunction of victim culture to identity as a ‘victim’.

MenAreCowards

Yawn! Another ‘philosopher’ who nobody has heard of who may have had some sensibleish ideas decades ago, and even his pathetic friend has to state that he was not a pedophile or an advocate of such. Really is such dull stuff!

Prue

In fairness, he might be obscure to you, but for those who’re familiar w/ Michel Foucault, Beauvior etc., the French scene, he isn’t all that obscure. All it takes is Foucault, to Deleuze, and bam you’ll end up seeing the name Hocquenghem or Schérer somewhere along the line. They were contemporaries, taught and worked together, read each others books and were influenced by each other. Obscurity depends on what world you’re in and what your interests are.

Bruce Rind is not exactly well known either, outside certain segments of academia and interested individuals and groups. None of these are big time, current celebrities like say, Russell Brand, but they’ve had their moments in the spotlight w/ the Rind et al. controversy and the Coral Affair (Scherer) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_du_Coral

You may find it boring, but others do not. And, I think his friend was meaning that Scherer was not himself a pedophile, which may well be true.

sugarboy

Whether he was a pedophile we cannot know, but those who say that he did not advocate for sexual activity between pre-pubescents and older people, they clearly have never read a single page of “L’Emile Perverti” and “Co-ire”!

matt

I have a bad feeling after this Russell Brand madness that the AOC might be risen due to people saying 16 year old schoolgirls cant consent to older guys nah, the abuse is her being in school against her will, surely?

Prue

I think you may be right. I’ve seen multiple news segments float the idea:

Here’s a recent one from the Right-wing aligned GB News: Russell Brand accuser calls for change in law to stop men in their 30s having sex with 16-year-olds. I remember this one and how the speakers frame legal change not as a case of preventing older males having legal sex w/ younger females, but as a case of changing the law so that 16YO’s can’t have sex w/ older males! I.e. the 16YO’s have to be stopped! ‘Child protection’ doesn’t even come in to the discussion; older/younger is just deemed ‘innapropriate’ and that’s apparently enough…
Here’s one from a more liberal outlet, where mainstream reporters speak about current affairs: Bringing down Russell Brand
[I can’t remember where exactly but either this vid or the next one does explicitly float the idea of raising the AOC].

The case of Russell Brand presents a great opportunity for media to home in on the seeming loophole of 16YO’s and above, in the UK, being in a legal grey area for age-gap sex contact [to my understanding?].

From my memory of school, a lot of young women I knew would have been very pissed off they couldn’t date all the seemingly interesting older guys outside of school. I think they’d have been a lot more unhappy, that’s for sure….
From where I stand, the happiest young people I know are those who started early and got on w/ work or school, and have a very relaxed attitude with very little sexual hangups, w/ sex just being a pleasant part of life. By contrast, the unhappy ones are those who are obsessed with age and psychologically crushed under the weight of age consciousness, virginal or lacking in sexual experience while being conscious of their age clock tick tick ticking. “I’m X years old and I still haven’t!” Etc.
As I get older, it is clearer and clearer to me that suddenly starting “real” life at 16 or 18 is far too late, and a childhood full of playing video games and not developing social and technical skills (computer skills, learning instruments, singing and speaking, cooking and domestic life) is not likely to give you a fighting chance of having a fallback or making something of yourself, even just having a meaningful life (unless you want to be a videogame streamer).

So yeah, media is pushing largely to the completely wrong direction IMO when it comes to people’s sense of freedom, their sense of being wanted, desired and needed (which apparently is only supposed to start when you’re 18 if it doesn’t come from family or peers), and their long-term mental health.

Don’t want to be depressing, bc I think ppl are getting very pissed off with the incessant age taboo and self-policing and nonsense ‘cancellations’ over nothing (i.e. losing your job over tweets). So I think that, the crazier it gets, the more the Antis reach and render ppl paranoid and miserable that they might, dear god the horror, find a 17YO attractive, all the while treating legal age gap relations as though they’re criminal – the more they create space for backlash.

HappyHumpingPup

WAY back 2014. Natch it’s all changed since then. It’s WAY worse/better, but the fakestream coverups are so much better/worse.

Radio KUER & BBC World Service October 15, 2014: ‘Why Kids Sext’ Describes Nude Photos As ‘Social Currency’ Among Teens.

In April, residents of Louisa County, Va., were shocked to learn of a sexting “ring” among the town’s teenagers. When Hanna Rosin asked teens from Louisa County High School how many people they knew who had sexted, a lot of them replied: “Everyone.” But what was originally characterized in the media as an organized criminal affair was soon revealed to be widespread teen behavior.

So they’ve moved from thinking this is sinister to realizing, within a few days, this is completely common.

That’s what’s amazing to me that this is so common given what we all know to be true about teenage awkwardness. The girls would actually get around this. I mean, some girls are just into it. They look great, they look like the pop stars they see, they’re proud to send their pictures.

People would get around this by taking pictures of parts of their body, like they might just do the upper part of their body, or they might take a picture in a dark room or at certain angles. People worked hard at these pictures — not the guys, they just take one kind of picture — but the girls worked pretty hard at these pictures to make them look like the pictures that they saw in other magazines.

On what the sexts mean to the boys who receive them
The sexts are just their currency. The girls described it to me as, “Oh, [it’s like] the guys are collecting baseball cards or Pokemon cards.” They don’t actually take them that seriously. They’re not a huge part of their sex life; it’s just something [the boys] collect. … It’s cool to have one that nobody else has. It’s kind of a social currency more than it is a springboard for fantasy, which is kind of surprising.

There’s so much free porn out there that these pictures serve a different role. These guys look at these pictures for five seconds; they’re just not that big of a deal to them. And so sending them along is kind of fun. … It seems like a prank.

https://www.kuer.org/2014-10-15/why-kids-sext-describes-nude-photos-as-social-currency-among-teens

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

One parent in the UK who we spoke to said her eight-year-old daughter was nearly coerced into sexual activity with an older man on the website.

She told the BBC: “My daughter had seen some videos go viral on TikTok about people being on this Omegle, so she explored this site and there’s no log-in or age restrictions or anything. These people were saying she was beautiful, hot, sexy. She told them she was only eight years old and they were OK with that. She witnessed a man masturbating and another man wanted to play truth or dare with her. He was asking her to shake her bum, take off her top and trousers, which she thankfully did not do.”

matt

why kids sext? well, becasue they are horny? their God given right?? But no, thye are being repressed in the guise of protection..

Prue

A news story worth thinking about: https://www.insideedition.com/idaho-dad-arrested-for-4-murders-says-he-snapped-after-teen-victim-exposed-himself-to-suspects?amp

A man killed an 18YO and the rest of the 18YO’s immediate family, after the 18YO had masturbated / exposed himself in front of the man’s kids and partner (an event for which he was already facing legal repercussions brought about by this man). Vowing to “do something” about this “pedophile”, in an argument with the 18YO’s family, he ends up shooting all 4 of them.

I think most ppl would see how obviously extreme it would be to kill someone, let alone 4 people including children, over masturbation or being naked. This man is clearly far more dangerous than a masturbator… But I can just hear the shrill apologists: “what if it was your child”?

For one, if my child got flashed etc, I’d react depending on how they felt. I’d ask the child about it, not just fester and stew in silent rage and assume it’s the worst thing that could have ever happened in a girl’s life (from the 1 woman I know who got flashed as a child, the fear of how her mother would react, and then the reality of her enraged mother, was what terrified her. In addition to school dramas and loneliness).
You know what I can say with a lot of confidence I would not do: kill someone over it. I might be horrified and pissed off if it was a particularly nasty person who flashed, or who seemed violent. But I still wouldn’t kill over it.

If you ever needed evidence that the symbol of the innocent child leads to real harm, it’s cases like these…

sugarboy

Several years ago, a mother told me about an episode her daughter had been confronted with while she was going for a walk in a park with the educators and the other children in her class (she was maybe 7-8 at the time), for they met an exhibitionist who showed himself naked to them.
They quickly returned to school, and while the educators called all the parents by phone, one by one, to tell them about the “terrible experience” their children had been through, the children, who stood aside, giggled and boasted to each other: “I saw him completely, you saw nothing!”.

Ed Chambers

Kids ain’t the angels they’re supposed to be. It’s systematic nonsense that says they should be. Centuries of dogmatic nonsense dressed up in the narratives of Ibrahimic Religions.

MenAreCowards

What utter nonsense!

It’s ENTIRELY the consequence of feminism, and all the pathetic attempts on this blog to say otherwise will get you nowhere. It’s as simple as this: girls and women don’t NEED sexual intimacy, only males are born with this curse, and females run the world and so combine their labor to prevent younger females from outcompeting them with men, so that they can live a parasitical existence off those men by way of marriage, alimony or abuse payments, in an accustomed manner their useless degrees in sociology, psychology, management and the soft humanities would never acquire for themselves. Me-gain Sharkle, anyone?

But yes, go on fighting the foaming at the mouth priests, the Moral Majority a la Handmaid’s Tale, because they are the ones with the power who are persecuting children by putting them on the sex offenders registry. Or accept the truth contained within the Abrahamic religions: women are indeed the seed of evil, which is why they need to be brought up well by their fathers, with a diet of sexual touching, of course, before their husbands take command.

HappyHumpingPup

Utter Anglophone/Anglobitch ‘dominant narrative’!

http://kshatriya-anglobitch.blogspot.com/

Meanwhile within or beyond the narrow, repressed Ibrahamic matriarchal phoney Anglophone, sexual needs are linked to individual libido FMLGBTQ.

And, early Islamic (not earlier Ibrahamic) cults first noted that Lolitots soon found the ‘curse’ of their HOT clits and became insatiable. Enter brutal male manufactured FGM to deter naturally promiscuous HOT Lolis, “Hotter than the male”.

Naturally undetered uncut HOT Lolis have always let all-age, often hapless, males do the chasing while they do the catching.

Quote, olde seaside postcard cartoon with Laddie boasting to Loli, “I’ve got one of these, you haven’t got one of these.” Loli: “No, but I’ve got one of these, and with one of these I can get as many of those as I want!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hln19l9RtWg

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
thewildranger

You are absolutely right. Victimology feminism has its roots in religious fundamentalism. And both work together to push punitive laws based on puritanical indoctrination!

Dissident

It has often been noted here and many other places who similar the SJW ideology is to religious fundamentalism. The former is simply a secular version of the latter, but it contains almost all the same precepts. They are just labeled with different terminology.

Leonerd

all these xenophobias and taboos are invented and spread by ignorant adults under the guise of “morality”. Children just laugh and don’t pay much attention to it. Their innocence lies not in the absence of erotic desires and fantasies, but in the absence of sex-negative attitudes that society imposes on them.

Prue

“Their innocence lies not in the absence of erotic desires and fantasies, but in the absence of sex-negative attitudes that society imposes on them.”

>Nice point, very quotable!

Ed Chambers

I read about this a while back. I could be very wrong but I suspect the murderer saw this situation as an opportunity to virtue signal, signifying any such sex crime, or similar, as punishable by death with extreme prejudice. I blame the MSM with #metoo and feminazis for hyper sensitising the populous, some of whom are already unstable enough as it is.

How any reasonably minded person could ever think flashing / masturbating should be punished by death is testament to how polarised the world has become, pro violence / anti sex.

Make love, not war.

matt

A guy not far from me was attacked by one of these not right in the head vigilantes…. he had exposed himsefl to adults… he had his penis cut off and died excruciatingly…. if this vile psycho wasnt jailed for life then i this country has no justice.. im to scraed to even read the articles..

HappyHumpingPup

From 25m.08s This week, in a new series called The Knock, we’ve heard the stories of two women whose lives were changed when they were told that a loved one had been arrested for sexual offences against children. Anita talks to Deborah Denis, Chief Executive of the Lucy Faithfull Foundation, and Rachel Armitage, Professor of Criminology the University of Huddersfield about the impact of ‘the knock’ on the families and friends of men arrested for these crimes. They’ll discuss what support families need, and what they are calling for.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001qfml

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
matt

I got the knock .. cos of what i wrote .. the robots (police) did a great job of traumatiasing me and my parents. one of who was undergoing cancer treatment. pure evil they are!

HappyHumpingPup

“Damn The Children When The Devil Must Be Found!’ I thought of those lines last Monday night, as I watched Panorama’s television account of the Orkney ‘Satanic abuse’ scandal. They come from W H Auden’s poem ‘Voltaire at Ferney’, which is about the defence of humanity against superstitious madness. Panorama played an audiotape: a six- year-old girl screaming tearful denials to three adult interrogators. ‘He did so put his dickie in your fanny’ they insisted. She screamed again.’ ”

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/damn-the-children-when-the-devil-must-be-found-1563398.html

HappyHumpingPup

ICJ March 8 Principle/Principle 16.

Facts, posi-checked by factcheck.org

Christine Stegling. UNAIDS deputy executive director for the policy, advocacy and knowledge branch. Email to FactCheck.org. 22 Apr 2023.
Di Fiore, Bettina.

Fact Check Response: What does the UN-linked report actually say about children and consent?” Live Action. 21 Apr 2023.

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/04/posts-misrepresent-u-n-panels-guidance-on-consensual-sex-between-adolescents/

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

Links positively confirm that AAAMs Amorous Adult Attracted Minors can in fact consent to shared, or solo, sex pleasure with any age partner(s). Though not in totalitarian Anglo-Victorian fake law now made Worldwide ‘Dominant Narrative’ propaganda. Perversely turning pleasure into so called ‘pain’, with pretentious pretext unfounded in any fact.

Check-mate, UK Grand Chess Master victim-MAP Brian Eley. In July 1991, Eley was arrested at his South Yorkshire home on suspicion of sexually abusing an underage male he had once coached. He was released on bail. Although not charged at the time, Eley jumped bail approximately one month after his arrest, and disappeared. He was subsequently charged with more than 30 offences of a similar nature and remained a fugitive, wanted by the British police and Interpol.

There were over the years numerous unconfirmed reports of sightings of Eley in various places, MOSTLY IN AMSTERDAM. According to reportage by Plaskett’s wife, Fiona Pitt-Kethley, which was published some months after his death, Eley had a “miserable time” as a FUGITIVE FROM BRITISH JUSTICE. After running out of the money he received from selling his house in the UK, he earned a living playing chess for small bets in cafés and doing computer work for a religious organization’s ashram. In 1992, he was identified in Amsterdam by UK Grandmaster Stuart Conquest and a Dutch chess player who NOTIFIED DUTCH POLICE BUT FOR UNKNOWN REASONS ELEY WAS NOT APPREHENDED. (HHP: Modern-EU Dutch cops still know pleasure from pain, fact from fiction? Pity that Anglo mass mind-RAPED Ecuador don’t – DOH!)

He had reportedly established a small circle of friends in the city to whom he claimed everything was about a “disagreement with the BCF/BritishChessFederation.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Eley

HappyHumpingPup

The anti-consent Antis love MAPS constantly bLogged down in ancient semantic swamps about who the fuck first defined so called ‘consent’.

Surely a subjective more than objective concept. E.G. Post-WW2 Boomers ‘Love Generation’ quote, “Whatever turns you on.” Or, olde Victorian Sunday skool quote, “Sex is fun, but sex is sin. Sins are forgiven, so get stuck in.”

While increasingly clean out of control-freaks’ control, modern Worldwide self-defined ‘Generation Sext’ mercilessly mocks Ancient & Victorian so called ‘Sex Laws’, and blasts, “My Mind My Body My Choice My MAP – Mind Yer Own!”

https://www.google.com/search?q=bbc+kids+global+sexting+out+of+control&sca_esv=557489608&sxsrf=AB5stBiOKY01LE8FeevigKO7p6U2as_XBA%3A1694370460115&ei=nAr-ZJfXBsaghbIPj-qZ-A0&ved=0ahUKEwiXlZLr1aCBAxVGUEEAHQ91Bt8Q4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=bbc+kids+global+sexting+out+of+control&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiJmJiYyBraWRzIGdsb2JhbCBzZXh0aW5nIG91dCBvZiBjb250cm9sSOIYUK4IWK4NcAF4AJABApgBvgWgAcITqgEFNS0zLjG4AQPIAQD4AQHiAwQYASBBiAYB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

HappyHumpingPup

Since so called Original Sin/Carnal Knowledge, a Biblical Blind Faith concept first enforced, long since scrapped by self-assumed self-serving powers self-consenting to falsely define and enforce private and public consent. Now falsely assumed by self-serving, profiteering populist media….

[MOD: etc., etc., etc. etc. deleted. Quite long, largely incoherent.]

Last edited 5 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
AnonyMAP

Was the Ancient Greek poetess and lesbian archetype Sappho a MAP? That’s not entirely clear from reading the English translation of her work. Although the word “girl” occurs regularly in her poems, no exact ages are given. In English, the word “girl” can also refer to young adult women. And while her explicit use of the word “child” in Gorgo and in The First Kiss is intriguing and suggests an openness to intergenerational romance, a metaphorical interpretation cannot be completely ruled out, although it seems unlikely.

It turns out that the answer to this question has been lost in translation, and that there is, in fact, linguistic evidence that Sappho was a MAP. In this paper by Sappho scholar André Lardinois, the author refutes Holt Parker’s claim that the subjects of Sappho’s poetry were adult women, explaining that Sappho used Greek words that specifically refer to girls aged 12–18, and calls out the tendency of modern scholars to omit this information from their works.

Here are some relevant quotes from Lardinois’ paper:

Parker argues that there is no credible evidence that Sappho’s audience consisted of young, unmarried girls, and instead proposes that she sang at banquets about her love for other adult women.[2] […] It is my conclusion, after a review of the evidence, that Parker is correct in rejecting the ‘Sappho school- mistress’ paradigm as a plausible reconstruction of the performance circumstances of her poetry, but that the subject of her poetry is, nevertheless, young women or girls.[4]

2. Parker’s article brings to its logical conclusion a trend in modem Sappho studies to refer to the subjects of her poetry as “women,” without specifying that they were probably young, adolescent women: Winkler 1981/1990, Stehle 1990, Snyder 1991. These studies, however,unlike Parker’s, do not explicitly deny that these women were adolescent.

4. By young women or girls, I mean women who in our sources, including Sappho’s poetry, are referred to as κόραι, παρθένοι, and sometimes παῖδες. They denote the age-group between puberty and marriage (roughly twelve to eighteen year olds): see Calame 1977: 1.63-64.

We may conclude that there is no reason to doubt that Sappho talked about young, adolescent women in her poetry. This is confirmed by eleven testimonia which, although late, could have easily inferred this from her poetry. Parker’s hypothesis that our classical sources misread Sappho’s poetry in this respect, changing adult women into girls, lacks positive proof and is actually contradicted by other representations of homosexual women in the Roman period. The fragments also speak overwhelmingly about paides and parthenoi and, in one or two cases, address them directly (frs. 58 and 140a). There are, furthermore, among her poetry at least two types of songs, the wedding songs and the hymns, which must have involved her in the setting up of young women’s choruses.

Last edited 5 months ago by AnonyMAP
Sakuga

“The ancient writers who quote the poem, Plutarch and Pseudo-Longinus, treat the physical symptoms which Sappho describes so fully as a manifestation of her eros for the girl; so they are, in the sense that if she had not been in love with the girl she would not have experienced such symptoms” Greek Homosexuality, p. 179, https://books.google.de/books?redir_esc=y&hl=de&id=R8iGAAAAIAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=Sappho

“While the foregoing examples all concern sex among men, histories of women’s same-sex sex have also demonstrated instances of age asymmetry. Some scholars believe that Archaic Greek poet Sappho, perhaps the original lesbian, and certainly the reason for the name, had one significantly younger lover.” (https://www.berghahnjournals.com/view/journals/historical-reflections/46/1/hrrh460101.xml?ArticleBodyColorStyles=full-text Introduction to “Sex across the Ages: Restoring Intergenerational Dynamics to Queer History”)

Archilochos, Sappho, Alkman: Three Lyric Poets of the Late Greek Bronze Age:
“And the first biographical entry on Sappho in the tenth-century A.D. lexicon known as the Suda simply states that “she was slanderously accused of shameful intimacy with certain of her female pupils. […] 6. Ovid Tristia 2.365, “Lesbia quid docuit Sappho nisi amare puellas?” though often cited as evidence for Sappho’s homosexuality, probably means that Sappho taught girls to love and belongs to a tradition, discussed by Dover (pp. 174-75), of Sappho as an instructor of girls. 7. Horace Odes 2.13.25 (querentem)lSappho puellis de popularibus, cited by Dover (p. 174) as a source for Sappho’s homosexuality, merely refers to Sappho’s plaintive verses about the girls of her native Lesbos and does not mention her sexual conduct as such. 8. A remark by the fourth century A.D. Greek rhetorician Themistius (p. xiii; p. 170 D), to the effect that Sappho lavished praise on herpaidika, may also deserve mention (this word is a standard Greek term for the youthful beloved in a male homosexual union). Yet as Themistius is only talking about verbal expressions of passion, his statement cannot truly be regarded as testimony to Sappho’s sexual habits. ”
Hallett, J. P. (1979). Sappho and Her Social Context: Sense and Sensuality. Signs: Journal of Women in Culture and Society, 4(3), 447–464. doi:10.1086/493630

Ah yes, “taught girls to love” couldn’t possibly mean anything sexual/romantic. The popular phrase “To be a friend of Sappho” originiates from the often absurd mental gymanstics of historians to interprete everything as heteronormative (and teleionormative).

“In other lyrics, too, the speaker, presumably Sappho herself, is portrayed as sensually attracted and aroused by other women. Most notable of these is fragment 49 L-P, addressing a woman named Atthis. Its speaker states: “I adored you, once in the past, when you seemed to me to be a small, graceless child.” Fragment 96 L-P, which avows desire for Atthis, and fragment 1 L-P, the hymn to Aphrodite, merit note in this context as well” https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft3199n81q;chunk.id=d0e7094;doc.view=print

“The relationship of desire and withholding, of presence and absence seems to move Sappho to write, to create in the elusive, illusive fragmentary net of words the absent one, the desired one. In fragment 105a, the poet’s gaze in the simile enacts the drama of desire and withholding, presence and absence. […] The distance, absence, of the sweet-apple are bound up with desire for the unattainable fruit. And the hyacinth [flower, symbol of boylove], once fallen from an imagined height, is destroyed. The fragments [105a and 2] suggest an aesthetic distance, of the beauty of the unreachable object of desire, suggest the superiority of the unattainable. Like the voice of the poet in other poems, yearning for a girl, for Aphrodite’s presence to help her win the girl, watching her beloved seated next to a man, remembering the girl Atthis loves, the voice in these fragments values the absent object of desire, regrets the fall of the sweet flower in the present, to the ground, to the realm of men, of daily work. The sweetness of the desired object is lost when it enters the realm of marriage, adulthood, consumption.” Sappho Is Burning, Page duBois, page 52

“The person most associated with lesbian love in Greece was Sappho, the 6th century poet from the island of Lesbos. Save one poem, only fragments of her work have come down to us. In her poetry Sappho wrote about the world of women, their daily loves, their marriages and their participation in religious ceremonies. She also praised the beauty of women and the love that they shared, and spoke of her own love for girls. We can surmise from her poetry that she kept a group of young women around her whom she sang verses. In all likelihood these girls had been entrusted to Sappho before their impending marriages and were being instructed by her in all manner of things.” Aldrich, Robert, ed. (2006). Gay Life and Culture: A World History, p. 47

“The last interpretation is supported by our knowledge that erotic attachments between older women and young girls were encouraged at Sparta. It is likely that in the female atmosphere of the girls’ choir lesbian relationships flourished. The most important factor, both at Sparta and at Lesbos, in fostering female homoerotic attachments was that women in both societies were highly valued. […] Women did not, as has been suggested, turn to other women in desperation, due to men’s disparagement of them. Rather, it appears that they could love other women in milieux where the entire society cherished women, educated them comparably to men of their class, and allowed them to carry over into maturity the attachments they had formed in the all-female social and educational context of youth.” Goddesses, Whores, Wives, and Slaves, Sarah B. Pomeroy

“The boys’ lovers also shared with them in their honour or disgrace; and it is said that one of them was once fined by the magistrates because his favourite boy had let an ungenerous cry escape him while he was fighting. Moreover, though this sort of love was so approved among them that even the maidens found lovers in good and noble women, still, there was no jealous rivalry in it, but those who fixed their affections on the same boys made this rather a foundation for friendship with one another, and persevered in common efforts to make their loved one as noble as possible.”
http://www.greek-love.com/antiquity/pederasty-in-ancient-sparta#Plutarch.Life.of.Lykourgos

Cyril

A new master’s thesis on “rape myths” supported by the CSA survivors themselves is quite important. Victimologists admitted that children may consider themselves consenting. Is there any difference between consenting and considering oneself consenting?

https://academicworks.cuny.edu/jj_etds/292/

matt

Alanis morrisette was covinced that she was consenting at 15 for many years until recently until she was brainwashed to think she hadnt… (AOC in canada was 14 not so long ago!)

Perplexed

You have to be incredibly careful with this particular argument. Because there absolutely is a difference between considering yourself consenting, and actually being consenting.

I grew up in a cult. I was groomed to think and behave and react certain ways. Religion and schools, btw- biggest grooming institutions of them all. I paid tithing to the church, “consensually”. As a child. I did and submitted to all sorts of things, as a child and adolescent, and even adult, that I would never in a million years subject myself to now, but I didn’t know any better, and there was no way for me to have known better. I didn’t know anything else. I never really got to make decisions for myself, and I never really got to know or explore what I actually wanted. I only was able to conceive of what I was told I should want, and want to do. Everything else was rebellious and sinful, and I would feel deep shame and guilt if I ever did those things or did what I wanted, but what I wanted I had been conditioned to view as temptation, rather than my own will. Though it’s definitely “your choice” when the time for punishment comes.

The truth was I was taken advantage of and defrauded. I was used and abused. Not by anyone in particular, but just generally. By other people who were similarly in thrall and being taken advantage of and defrauded. But collective delusions are as powerful and sustaining and self delusions.

Power differentials and abuse of authority are absolutely serious issues that need to be considered. This is why I say that consent is such a faulty framework. It is contract law, and amounts to agreement to your own abuse.

Autonomy is better. Autonomy is better because it has to do with the development and will of the person- their own will, as opposed to the will of parents, the will of partners, the will of priests, the will of community, of family, of society, of god, of the church. Consent, even informed consent, will always leave people lacking. But autonomy- where one is acting in their own capacity, and acting in their own capacity with the conscious recognition that they may indeed be being manipulated and or being taken advantage of, but still deciding for themselves anyway. While consent has theoretical limitations of duress- and duress doesn’t lose its applicability to autonomy either- consent often involves situations where manipulation and undue advantage and fraud aren’t even detected. It is one thing to be aware of the active potential that you are being manipulated, lied to, or taken advantage of, and proceeding anyway, versus not knowing that you are being manipulated, being lied to, and being taken advantage of, and not even recognizing that that might be the case.

Because I would have defended the church to the death, and insisted that I was doing it all of my own free will and volition- when I was in the midst of it. I now know that I was played for a fool, and I was being robbed of my agency and personhood in the process.

Any pretense of authority is innately dangerous to any promotion of laxer laws and norms regarding children’s sexuality.

Cyril

Here is another study of this kind, 42% of schoolchildren believe in ‘rape’ survivors’ consent:

matt

I dont subscribe to the idea that people everyone over one day can consent but noone under that day cant… I know, there has to be a line .(apparently) . but the line is too thick.. we need to be more .. flexible…

HappyHumpingPup

Awaiting an author? “Understanding & addressing child sexual attraction to adults”
Subtitle, “AAAMs Amorous Adult Attracted Minors”.

Rachel Hope Cleves, Unspeakable: A Life Beyond Sexual Morality (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2020)

“One evening,” we read, “she [Viva King] and Douglas got onto the subject of whether sex should be taught in schools. “Norman was asked his opinion as to whether ten years old was too young for such knowledge. ‘Nonsense,’ he replied, ‘children can’t learn early enough what fun it is.’” (p. 238). As Cleves explains, “Douglas refused to disavow children’s entitlement to sexualized pleasure” (Ibid).

https://wapercyfoundation.org/?page_id=1056

(Sister Emmanuelle, Confessions of a Religious Woman, Flammarion editions)
“How and on what occasion did I start masturbating, I don’t remember.” I thought it was wrong since I did it secretly and willingly at school where I felt safer. But the mistress noticed and warned my mother. One day, my cheeks were on fire, I was shaking in class and suddenly I saw her staring at me intensely through the window door. She then explained to me that it was nasty for a little girl and I shouldn’t start again. But it had become a habit and I wasn’t very accustomed to obey. When the assault of desire attacked me, only some foreign presence had the power to stop me, otherwise I would confess powerless to the greed of pleasure.”

Early 20th Century honest reality of natural early sexual pleasure privately practised. Reality BLOCKED by backward Anglo-Victorian totalitarian tabloid hypocrisy. Perversely with daily sex-filled ‘Family’ media of near-nude adults role-models & sex-objects also naturally aMusing pre-teens & pre-tweens.

Now forcing so called ‘adults’ to face 21st Century reality of natural kids sexually aMused and PUBLICLY practising!

Check, UK top-sales SeX-Filled ‘FAMILY’ tabloid The SUN, Chief London Reporter Tom Wells: “Kids Aged 6 are Teacher Sex Abusers! Among a sharp rise in similar shocking cases, a six year old girl stood in front of a male teacher, lifted her skirt and massaged herself through her underwear.”

Plus, pre-tween guilt-free ‘sexting’ and self-made C.P. – totally out of neo-Victorian control-freaks’ control. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Thousands+of+children+sexting%2C+police+say+BBC.COM&oq=Thousands+of+children+sexting%2C+police+say+BBC.COM&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60.42258447j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

HappyHumpingPup

Supposed ‘Adult’ fairytales for curious studious humourous Gen-Sext/AAAMs Amorous Adult Attracted Minors to read, review. ridicule. On their forthcumming all-age blog MyMindMyBodyMyChoiceMyMAPMindYerOwn.cum.
v
v
https://www.routledge.com/Understanding-and-Addressing-Adult-Sexual-Attraction-to-Children-A-Study/Goode/p/book/9780415446266

312
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x
Scroll to Top