Oh shit, I forgot the kid’s birthday!

Husbands notoriously, or at least stereotypically, forget their wedding anniversary. Having just failed to mark Heretic TOC’s second anniversary on time, I am unsure whether this reflects my unromantic nature as a male blogger, or whether blogging is not supposed to be a project one is faithfully wedded to anyway, or whether we should all divorce ourselves from anniversary angst.
Catching up belatedly on the fact this blog’s second birthday was on 8 November – oh shit it’s a birthday, that’s even worse: I missed the kid’s birthday! – I do actually see that it is a useful moment for reflection and thoughts for the future.
And I am delighted to report that even though I missed the actual day, so there was no party with candles to blow out and all that stuff, there has been a lot to celebrate: much more, surprisingly, than at the first birthday stage, which might be thought a more significant landmark. It is not just a matter of fact and figures, either, but starting with a few will help set the scene.
The average number of hits per day at Heretic TOC in the opening month, November 2012, was 89; in the corresponding month the following year there were 192; for this year the figure is up to 296. Hard comparative data are not easy to come by but there are some indications that these figures, especially the latest one, are strong for a specialist blog at the more highbrow end of the spectrum. By the end of the first year Heretic TOC had 40 “followers” subscribing to be notified by email when each new blog is published; there were 70 by the second anniversary.
A bigger story, though, is to be seen in figures indicating readers’ intensive engagement with Heretic TOC. The average number of comments per blog since the beginning has been about 29. But that masks an amazing rise seen in the last six months or so, and especially in the last three months. The last half dozen blogs have each attracted over 100 comments; the most recent, in the first month of the third year, has brought a record 366 and there may yet be more.
Many of these comments are not short, either, often stretching to several hundred words and sometimes a thousand. Usually well argued, they are also often richly informative, sometimes with links to important source material. By the second anniversary well over half a million words of comment had been published! By the end of November there had been over 3850 published comments in response to a total of 132 blogs. The mean average length of comment was around 150 words: some are just brief acknowledgements but the mean is boosted by far more substantial, contributions, as noted above.
Another noteworthy aspect of quality, as opposed to quantity, is that the briefest points (“Couldn’t agree more”, “Nice of you to say so”, etc.) tended to reflect the extraordinary courtesy and mutual goodwill of participants. It’s not even as if I have to battle to keep out flamers and trolls: I suspect those who visit the site with that in mind usually think better of it, realising that vicious abuse will simply reflect badly on themselves in the Heretic TOC environment.
All of this leaves me in no doubt that Heretic TOC is presently serving a useful function, even though the heretical thoughts aired here are no more influential in the world than they were when the blog started, indeed perhaps less so.
This certainty of purpose contrasts strongly with the situation a year ago, when the title of my anniversary blog said a lot about the existential crisis Heretic TOC was undergoing: What’s the point of it all, really? At that time, too, there were some really good commentators, but I felt newcomers were being put off by the bad behaviour of a few. I said I thought two thirds of the material was good, but:

The remaining material, though, including posts which had to be rejected on grounds of personal abuse, repetition of previous positions, incoherence, etc., involved me in some very difficult – indeed at times utterly draining and exasperating – bouts of moderating. This, indeed, has been by far my toughest task, which has at times thoroughly tested my capacity to be as calm, fair and objective as a moderator ought to be.

At this point, or soon after, I concluded that my moderating needed to be a bit tougher. It was a hard decision for a blog such as this one, which aims to encourage dissenting voices, not suppress them. I do not regret what I did, though. One year later there is a considerably greater range of heresy being expressed here, not a narrower one.
As for the future, I very much hope to be delivering a third anniversary report around this time next year. I may be unsure, as indicated above, whether blogging is a project one must be “faithfully wedded” to, but I’m not looking to get out of the relationship anytime soon. The sex* is too good for that!
There is a bit of an issue, but it is a good one, a problem of success, not failure. I find it is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain a sensible blog/life balance now that the comments are so numerous. As the subject matter is so controversial, and as I have legal responsibility for what goes in, every post has to be moderated carefully. It is not a task that can be delegated and it eats up quite a bit of time. Accordingly, what I think I need to do from now on is to restrict the number of comments per blog to 100. I hope everyone can live with that. Also, I would ask commentators to review their posts and do a bit of self-editing on the longer ones, where possible. I do not want to impose a maximum length, as some posts fully justify an extended argument with lots of information. I just ask you to keep this question in mind: Could my post be expressed more concisely?
Another way around the problem, however, would be if there are heretics here with websites of their own who might like to host any surplus comments after the 100-limit is reached. I know there are a few of you with sites. This might also be a good way of handling the Open Thread idea proposed by James. I suspect such a thread could result in some very intellectually fertile debate because it would offer a chance to introduce fresh concepts and perspectives that would not be sufficiently “on topic” as a response to the blog of the moment. Anyway, I hope potential hosts will think about it and let me know.
A further “good problem” is that Heretic TOC’s back catalogue is now too big for me to access easily from memory. I can no longer recall, as I could for the first year or more, all the blog topics and their approximate dates off the top of my head. As some will have noticed, I do refer back to earlier blogs when the occasion so demands, but even with the Search facility and Keywords it is not always easy to find the ones I am after. So it has occurred to me I should make a title/date index with a short Abstract for each entry.
This thought led to another. Wouldn’t it be nice, I mused, to have a paperback book on my shelves for easy access to my favourite pieces, put together in a “Best of Heretic TOC” compilation including some of the best comments? This would be a valuable see-at-a-glance resource as well as a personal memento. In these days of print-on-demand publishing, it would not need to be a very costly investment of my money even if only one copy were ever produced. I could make other copies available for purchase for a very modest amount, though, if anyone else expressed an interest. I’m not going to big this up as a must-have purchase because plainly it will be nothing of the sort given that every word of the original blog will continue (WordPress willing) to be available into the foreseeable future. But, if I can get my act together in the coming months to do the editing, design, etc., it will become available for anyone who wants it.
If anyone has suggestions for particular blogs to go in the book, and also particular comments, including any of your own that you feel may be of lasting interest, do speak up. Yes, I know, with literally thousands of comments to choose from, it’s a tough selection to make; also, there is bound to be a bias towards recent comments, not least because they are more easily remembered. This doesn’t really matter too much, though, as I happen to think that many of the best comments have been made in the last six months.
That’s about it, I think. If you’ll excuse me, then, I’d better get off so I can go and bake that Heretic TOC birthday cake at long last!

 

*Legal disclaimer for humourless surveillance agencies: I mean the discourse of non-teleiophilic sexuality.

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[…] glad that I carried on blogging, and that was reflected in last years’ anniversary reflections, Oh shit, I forgot the kid’s birthday! My own existential angst over Heretic TOC’s purpose and future do not appear to have been shared […]

Bloom

I’d like to quote a post that recently appeared on Ethan’s Celibate Pedophiles blog. If anyone feels moved to respond, maybe it would be worth responding to the original post:

I hate what I am, I am virtuous, but I still feel really depressed most days and find it hard to cope. I never would do anything to harm a child, especially not in the way many on the news do. I just want to be normal, find a cure, or some sort of solution, to me I only see death. I do get very suicidal when I think of it, I just hate myself, I wish I could change everything. It’s not fair why I have this, I’m 18 for gods sake,I’m meant to be ready to see and experience the world and instead here I am wishing i could just not wake up one morning. All I want is a cure, but who cares about that when we are all ‘evil’ and deserve to die, everyday is a struggle, atleast if I was suffering from bipolar I could find a way to cope. I just want to feel like there is a point to living. I have my mum and dad, and I
I want to travel and see the world, but I just want to crawl up in a ball and just wait for me to end. I would never hurt anyone in that way, I don’t want too, we have these rules for a reason. Maybe my problem stems back to porn use when I was 13 and jerking of to girls I knew on fb using their pics ( when I got fb at age 15), I regret it a lot now but you are naive as a kid. I wish I could tell my younger Self to not have done that, I wouldn’t have said never jerk off , but just to be careful and not use porn. I never ever did it to young girls, I did it to those around my age, so when I was 16 it was 14 and 15, (I guess you could say young but I thought it was normal, some of my mates had slept with girls at ages 14-15 when they were 16-17) I felt abnormal when I said that to docters but apparently
It was normal. To be honest at 13 it
was 18, milfs even. I don’t think I really found this as a problem until I was at least 17, I just wish I had the chance to tell my younger self why porn and all that jerking was maybe not best. I don’t like myself, naturally I am polite and well mannered and kind and thoughtful, just what people think and do say but deep down I am just sad and unhappy with the way I am and I want to change so bad so that I never have these thoughts, god what I would do to just be able to look at young people normally, that’s all I want. I want to be able to just flick on the TV and watch an advert with a young person and not feel ashamed and sick of being in this position. I wish all of us could be well cured. I’m sorry I’m this way, I’m sorry for being a waste of time and space. For me I see death as a way out of this hell, but I’m scared to end it and the amount of sadness and devastation I would leave on the family. At the moment I am finding it so hard to find a purpose in life, to remain focused on enjoying life, I’m not going to do the things you see those disgusting ones do on TV and the news, not in my mind or in reality. I just can’t help wanting to find a solution that doesn’t involve death. I’m sure a lot of you have contemplated death? Or still do? I have my methods if it gets that bad, I’m in control of my actions , but at the moment I can’t help but feel lost, afraid and alone. Please god make a cure or a time machine! Something?!

It’s important to support people in this situation. Arguments around conduct with children and so on notwithstanding, solidarity is more important than ideological factionalism.

Peter

@Bloom a very good thing you have brought to our attention. Very unfortunately this is a common anxiety.
Anyway, I am pleased to notice the young man got helpful advice already.
I would add that around 20-30% of straight/bi men are probably attracted to pubescent, and early teen girls, as much as grown women. This ‘primary’ preference is based on confidential survey data.
Also, I think this fellow’s sexuality is still quite fluid, and if he got out more, before his tastes solidify, he might then have sex with legal age females. Meantime temper his illicit urges with solitary masturbation.
If you, or anyone else, wish to answer that question (copying my thoughts), then please feel free to do so. I will also keep an eye on this thread too.
Yes, divided people fall, united they stand….

Lensman

Happy birthday HereticTOC!
I’d like to set “The Best of HereticTOC” alongside the following volumes in my fantasy library:
“The Penguin Book of child-love and paedophilia”
“After the Madnesss: the decline and fall of Paedophilophobia in contemporary society (OUP 2020)”
“Great Paedophiles of History”
“The handbook of ethical child-love (HMSO) ”
“Child-Love: the history of the new social paradigm”
“The Illustrated Nursery Lolita” (suitable for 2 – 5 year olds)
“How Paedophiles Saved the Universe and Brought about World Peace”

Bloom

Just as an aside, Firefox users might find these threads easier to follow by viewing without styles (View –> Page Style –> No Style). This view doesn’t work so well for posting replies so simply set the view back to the default style.
I’m not sure what the Chrome equivalent is. No one uses IE do they? 😀

Ethanicalami

this is helpful when the stream becomes an disruptionery dream .
( i like my dreams horizontal)

Peter

Hi Tom and the readership.
Lately I’ve got too much on my mind and I need a clear head to fully help find a solution for you.
However, if I may summarise my initial thoughts (a few already been mentioned by others), then see if these can help…
Possible Platforms :-
– ‘WordPress’ or another ‘CMS’
(Content Management System)
– Bulletin Board
(Forum)
– ‘Twitter’
(Microblogger)
– with private membership?
– ‘Storify’
(message aggregator)
– Hybrid of CMS with BB/’Twitter’.
Examples of tweets could be as below :-
“#TOC #Sexuality: Hi Heretics, here is my latest blog post [ short URL ]”
“#TOC: Via @HereticPeter his full comment on Inadmissable Testimony [ short URL ]”
“#TOC: Hi Heretics, that is to-date 999 comments for Inadmissable Testimony [ short URL ]”
“@TOC Hi Heretics, re. Inadmissable Testimony, here is a drawing (18+) [ short URL ]”
“#TOC: Thanks to all Heretics who contributed today. Back tomorrow! Good Night!”
‘Storify’ is used usually by news providers to show how a discussion progressed. It is very visual. Have a look:
http://www.Storify.com
The Hybrid would summarise via the BB or Twitter, with a link to each full comment.
If using a BB, and you want more freedom of expression, then try to find an American-based administrator (from hopefully your readership).
My reason for suggesting the US, is their Constitution gives significantly more scope. As your blog is in text you should find that freedom. Do note, if anyone wants to upload any erotic images (to support their argument) these will have to be still aged 18 plus.
There again, you might wish to remain as you already are, within UK law.
Security:
If using a BB, you could be vulnerable to a ‘DoS Attack’ (Denial of Service) by groups like Anonymous. Therefore choose your specification very carefully and ensure you stay within the Law whatever. Strict moderation is unfortunately essential.
To conclude, my favourite would be the hybrid. This is because the short text microblogs won’t do justice to the impressive academic debate here. And yet, with your Inadmissable Testimony, I just couldn’t wade through it all. A short text introduction/extract would therefore help we of short attention spans and shallower depth of thinking.
Do please note I have neither the expertise nor the time to enact the above, but still highly value TOC having his space in cyberspace. Hopefully I’ve helped…

bencapel

That such an intelligent and reasoned “counter-discourse” as Heretic TOC’s blog has survived for two years in such a hostile and even murderous political environment is one hell of an accolade in itself. Well done, Tom, and all who contribute so honestly and forthrightly here.
Under the rule of censorious and intolerant victim feminism, our universities are fast becoming the very places where academic freedom of expression and thought are being smothered most stridently; this blog is a refreshing and thought-provoking alternative.
Quite an achievement, Mr O’Carroll.

entelechy

Happy Birthday to this amazing blog. 🙂

entelechy

You’re welcome.
Aw, thank you! 🙂

Ethanic

OK, happy birthday after all – very insensitive of you to forget, Tom.
But here’s my idea on how to fix some problems with WP.
-Do not indent replies, only preface them with a choice of either “reply” or, “leave a comment”.
This way, things would be a little more transparent. As to the number of comments allowed, why not make it (the devil whispering in my left ear) 150?

feinmann0

“Accordingly, what I think I need to do from now on is to restrict the number of comments per blog to 100.”
Congratulations too Tom from this MAP who very much enjoys regularly tuning in to your blog. However, like others, I am finding it increasingly difficult to follow debate, not only due to the dodgy WordPress formatting, but also due to the sheer weight of comments. With more than eighty comments from one person alone on the Inadmissible Testimony topic, it is easy to see why the comments total has now topped a surely unmanageable 400. Restricting the comment number to 100 may restrict contributors to those who are the most vocal. I have often wondered too, how many MAPs there are out there who would like to have a voice and like to contribute to Heretic TOC, but do not feel they can compete with the often high-powered academic debate here. I for one, sometimes struggle to understand what is being said.
Please don’t flame; my comments are meant to be constructive.

A.

Perhaps those of us who comment most prolifically should keep quiet in the first two or three days following a new blog, to allow other people to get a word in edgewise.

Sylvie

Your comment is constructive.
“I have often wondered too, how many MAPs there are out there who would like to have a voice and like to contribute to Heretic TOC, but do not feel they can compete with the often high-powered academic debate here. I for one, sometimes struggle to understand what is being said.”
l believe that within a space of 100 comments per blog there is room for everyone to speak their minds, as long as individual contributors make the best of the space that they have. For this reason l myself have decided to intervene, starting from next blog, only when necessary and when l have a real contribution to make, otherwise l would unfairly be stealing room from other contributors.
Please Feinmann, feel free to contribute with whatever you deem fit! l for one would be happy to hear other voices.

eqfoundation

Happy Birthday, to this fine blog!
Thank you, for the wonderful gift of your time and insight, Tom.
This blog deserves it’s success…And I don’t envy you one bit, where it comes to comment overload. 🙂
– Steve

Sylvie

Steve, l recall stumbling upon your website, The EQ Foundation, years ago. Very appreciated. Nice to find you here.

eqfoundation

Hey thanks, Sylvie! 🙂
I believe that website is still up, but I don’t intend to put new funds into the account, so it will eventually go down…I’m rebuilding it via the blog platform, at my blog “Our Love Frontier”. Eventually, I’ll actually have the EQF homepage up and completed…To many projects, not enough time.

everyboy

There is a good blog in Spanish you can include in the book: https://porlaverdad3.wordpress.com/
[TOC adds: Whether it is a “good” blog is very much a matter of opinion. One of the first things I noticed was a recommendation of Sarah Goode’s books, both of which are awful in my view. This seems to be a site for the “virtuous”.]

jedson303

I’m afraid everyboy is right. All the comments are by one person. Here’s an example: ” No voy a publicar absolutamente nada que defienda o justifique cualquier tipo de conducta ilegal. No voy a pasar por alto las voces de los niños abusados. Esas voces tenemos que escuchar.” ” I will absolutely not publish anything that defends or justifies any kind of ilegal conduct. I am not going to ignore the voices of abused children. It is these voices we have to listen to.” Not only is it written by a “virtuous pedophile,” but he has no intention of posting anything that he doesn’t agree with. Some blog! Very disappointing.

jedson303

sorry. I misread that. It is TOC’s comment I agree with.

Linca

Mark Twain once said, “I didn’t have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.”
Linca

Dissident

Happy 2nd Birthday to TOC Heretic! I too will endeavor strongly to make moderating easier for you, Tom, and I apologize for the times my posting has been a nuisance due to the problems I sometimes have with brevity. Keep up the good work, Tom, all that you do is much appreciated, and doubtlessly makes much more of a difference than you may sometimes think 🙂
That said, I would definitely like to see another hosted blog that handles comments beyond the 100 you allow for each entry directly on your blog. Many of the comments have beget very insightful further comments that are more than worth reading. I understand and accept the need for such a limit on your blog, though I would also like to see some topics continue for as long as we can squeeze good insights and valuable information out of them.
Secondly, an ongoing series of book volumes that collect the best articles and resulting conversations from this blog is an awesome one! The new digital and POD formats do indeed make such volumes much more affordable and doable than in the past.

James

I’m afraid I can’t for technical and legal reasons.
However, I do have a suggestion on this point. 8chan.co allows anyone to make a discussion forum/board once the contents are legal in the US. They even have a few MAP themed boards: /hebe/, /younglove/, /loli/, /phile/, etc.
All we’d need is for someone to set up a /TOC/ board. Then, whenever discussion gets heated over here, we could fork it and migrate discussion to a thread (or threads) on /TOC/. Anyone up for this idea?

Sylvie

l think the idea is an excellet one.

A.

Sounds good. How do we go about doing that?

James

Someone other than Tom (or myself) just needs to create a /toc/ board and login occasionally to do some moderation. To learn more about the whole thing, check out 8chan’s FAQ. Any volunteers?
PS: I’ll try to limit myself to 1-2 comments per day per blog.
PPS: Maybe entelechy will be willing to discuss teleology with me via email?
Spoiler Alert: I don’t like it.

A.

Since Jedson has offered his blog, maybe we should try that out for the time being? We don’t want to exclude UK- or Australia-based readers and commentors.

jedson303

I have put a blog up on uryourstory.org which anybody is welcome to use. If things get going there I will weed out personal attacks, mindless rants, and material that has nothing to do with intergenerational love, but will put no limits on the range of opinions that can be expressed.
Speaking of my site, I was inspired by the recent “trigger warnings” discussion and am thinking of putting one up on my site. “Warning: The site contains evidence and thoughts that may challenge some of your most cherished presuppositions and actually cause you to think.”

A.

Great, thanks!

James

If tangential discussions are weeded out, there goes every one of my comments…. 😛
I like this. Can you link directly to that blog?
I don’t like vague/sarcastic TWs but whatever; your blog….
To Tom: Yes. Main page is a good idea.

Sylvie

1) VIRTUAL LIFE / REAL LIFE BALANCE
I agree that comments should be limited to 100. I also was recently wondering how Tom could keep a healthy blogging/life balance, and frankly 379 comments (latest blog) are a bit too much for either moderator or reader: both have lives.
2) AVOID OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS
It would be nice if commentators avoided posting comments that are not strictly relevant to the blog in question: don’t get me wrong, some of the comments on history or literature are very informative and interesting, but if we have a limited number of 100 comments, we can’t afford off-topic ones. We must make sure that A) the blog is given careful consideration; and B) that everyone gets a chance to post a comment.
Therefore I would say that it would be kind of the most prolific commentators to limit the number of their comments in favour of the comments of others and to avoid posting contributions that are not strictly relevant to the blog that is being discussed.
3) KID’S BIRTHDAY (Tom, this is for you)
I remember ALL birthdays of all of my friends and acquaintances from all over the world, no matter what. And it’s all in my head, never needed to note it down. When the day comes, the phone will ring or an email will be sent (I’d say that’s exquisitely a womanly trait). That’s because l believe people matter! That is to say that now that I know when the birthday of your brainchild is, be sure that not another year will pass without me reminding you to bake a cake!

gantier99

Shit! Perhaps that’s why my sexuality is where it is! It’s not so much the big boobs and the hairy genitals, it’s the dreaded birthday diaries of the grown-up women!

Sylvie

Dear Gantier, sorry you missed the humour. Mine were actually meant to be “nice” words, if you know what they are. And l am afraid that it’s not about “women’s dreaded birthday diaries” (a rather misogynistic comment, by the way) rather about acknowledging that people in flesh and blood exist outside of one’s self-centred little world.

James

If I might be permitted to defend Gantier:
I’m 95% certain he was joking. The comment was meant to be a joke about the way women (stereotypically) keep track of these details in a way that men (stereotypically) can’t. It was not meant to insult you or be misogynistic.
(BTW: I saw humour in both comments and I think Gantier was responding to the humour in your comment.)
Also, I don’t think poor memory is a sign that someone doesn’t care about others. I care tonnes but I can barely remember anything. I forget names, dates, get lost, lose things, etc. My entire maternal family is like that (funny thing, heredity) and we try to cope. The only area where my memory is naturally good is for my Autistic Special Interests.

Sylvie

James, you know what, it’s MY mistake: l believed we are smarter than “stereotipically”.
And no, l never said nor think that people who can’t remember dates don’t care for others. But those who do their best to remember, certainly do care.

gantier99

Hi Sylvie (and hi James, thanks for springing to defend my faux pas)
I stand (looking rather sheepish) corrected in the corner. It was a lame attempt to make fun of the stereotype, certainly not an insult on you or women in general. In fact first time I can remember being called misogynistic! But I will take more care, will think twice before hitting “send”, and apologies to you or anyone else who took offence.
Would however take issue with the not remembering birthdays as a possible indicator of self-centredness. As James says, there are many constructive ways of caring.
While I’m in flow I’d like to bring up something that I think we ignore at our peril. Just a couple of days ago a cancer specialist in the UK was sentenced to 22 years for abusing very sick young children in his care. How on earth can those of us who are deriving inspiration from your blog a few weeks back, and are carefully beginning to put in a pro MAP-word in at home and at work, tackle this? It’s all very well to talk of “real abuse” and “hysteria” but isn’t there a risk of us sticking our heads in the sand here? Just wanted to hear your thoughts on this Sylvie, that news story and other similar high profile cases distress me terribly, from my vantage point here in a country thankfully less afflicted by the phenomenon.

Sylvie

@Gantier
No need to stand in the corner: no offence given, none taken on my part. I understand that my words might have sounded harsh, but that is precisely what l don’t like about “virtual” discussions where people are easily misunderstood. To be honest, l myself regretted my words to you as I wondered if they might have been unfair, just seconds after submitting the last comment. At my age, I have learned to count to 10 – I promise my next goal will be to learn to count to 20.
I must say thank you, however, for bringing up this piece of news regarding Myles Bradbury being sentenced to 22 years.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/01/childrens-doctor-jailed-abuse-myles-bradbury
I was precisely reading about this last night, even though living outside the UK, all l can rely on is the little bit I get from online newspapers. I am not sure whether my opinion counts much, especially since l haven’t been able to properly form an opinion. Having recollections and first-hand experiences myself of cases where the truth was far from what was being reported in newspapers, I cannot really tell truth from falsehood in this particular case. Generally speaking, I would say that you are very right in saying that we should never stick our heads in the sand. Abuse does exist, and in no way it should be condoned, nor should we ever be prone to believe that molestation can be a pleasing experience.
IF – and please note “IF” – what is being reported is true (there is no reason for me to believe is is not), i.e. that the man insisted on children being visited “in a room on their own”, that they were made to strip down for no reason, and that he was touching their private parts without a valid medical reason for doing so, well, if all of this is true, be sure there is no sympathy from me. Not only did he prey on vulnerable individuals whom he was supposed to be taking care of, but he made them feel uncomfortable to the point where they (allegedly) made it clear to their mothers that they did not want to be left alone with him. To me there is something very disgraceful in making a young person feel uncomfortable or embarrassed and this sort of behaviour is precisely the opposite of all l believe in!
It would be nice to hear your opinion on this, and everyone else’s.
Yes, I still believe that “beginning to put in a pro-MAP word at home and at work”, to use your choice of words, is a good way forward. If you’re doing that, you have my most sincere applause. You ask, how to tackle this piece of news? Well, I would say that “this” is a further reason to tackle the subject for it allows us – you – to speak your mind and make a clear distinction between a mutually desired contact and sexual abuse. It would give you a chance of explaining the existence of consensual adult-child sexual contacts that are wilfully engaged in by the child. It would give you a chance of questioning the legitimacy of a prosecution of such cases. What do you think?
One final note: I see you have used the word MAP. I myself have chosen to never use such politically correct terminology (“boy-lover”, “girl-lover”, “MAP” etc.) because I see it as a lame attempt at pleasing a society that shrieks in horror at the thought of an adult having a loving sexual relationship with a child. I don’t use nor endorse any word other than “paedophile”, “paedophilia” and “paedophilic”, and I do it for one reason: my discourse is political and “paedophilia” is what the stigma is attached to. My one political objective is to remove that stigma.

A.

Since you’ve asked for other people’s opinions (forgive me, Gantier, for butting in), I think here we must fall back on the tried-and-true argument, “Are the Ted Bundys and Gary Ridgways of the world a good reason to ban heterosexuality? Should we write articles in the papers explaining that they are straight guys and this is what straight guys do?” And anyway — though it may not be politic to mention this to a semihostile audience — Bradbury is not a Bundy or a Ridgway, or a Dean Corll: what he did was bad, but he did not murder, torture, rape or abduct anybody.
Tom was kind enough to guest-blog a post of mine in which I looked at the evidence from David Lisak, Paul Miller and Stephanie McWhorter’s studies of undetected rapists and Rüdiger Lautmann’s interviews, for this book http://www.shfri.net/trans/lautmann/lautmann.htm , of sixty boy- and girl-lovers in the general population. I concluded that the percentage of those who make a habit of rape, sexual assault and grey-area boundary-pushing is just about exactly the same among CL men as it is among teleiophilic heterosexual men. In both cases, it is in the single digits. I am quite proud of that piece. I consider it my modest little contribution to the Cause. Of course it falls woefully short of what we really need because I was working with a CL sample size of sixty, but what can you do? The large-scale research on ‘paedophiles in society’ is just not there.
I agree with you that we should call a spade a spade and a paedophile a paedophile. I also like boy-lover, girl-lover and child-lover, though, because they were coined spontaneously a long time ago — i.e. before the word paedophile became radioactive — by those they apply to, and because they’re a handy way of making gender preferences clear. And child-lover is just a calque of paedophile, anyway. Also, since I came to this blog Tom has drawn my attention to Ray Blanchard’s research establishing that hebephilia is a distinct sexual orientation, and I find it tiresome to write ‘paedophiles and hebephiles and paedohebephiles and paedohebeephebophiles’ all the time! So I’ve taken to using ‘MAP’ here as a convenient shorthand.
And on another subject: I mentioned Dean Corll. He handed out candy to kids. That may have a lot to do with the ice-cream cliché Tom mentioned a couple of blogs back. But I think I may have found the earliest instance of it here: https://www.ipce.info/library_2/files/horr_temp.htm . “Sidney L. said about the man with whom he had sex, ‘he treated me to Ice Cream.’ With the fourteen cents he received from a man, eight-year-old Albert M. ‘bought two cones, I gave one cone to my brother and bought candy with the remaining four cents.’ ”
And Gantier, regarding the debate about paedophilia and parenthood that came up in the Thread of Incredible Size, one of Lautmann’s subjects was a GL dad who said: “For my part, I’d sooner just give up than push her into anything. To me the most important thing is the friendship between my nine-year-old friend and my daughter. Under no circumstances can this be jeopardized. That comes before all else.” He sounds like a good guy.

gantier99

To Sylvie and A.: Thank you both for your thoughtful and long comments. I should like to make some considered response, and I will try, but I’m likely to be too busy these next few days. And Sylvie, at my age (almost twenty years your senior as a matter of fact!) I should of course learn to be more careful in my remarks.

mr p

you have now made me reconsider the term MAP now! Also not everyone understands those acronyms,in the non MAP world.

James

I used to solely use “paedophile” and similar forms. Then I realized that this failed to account for hebephiles and ephebophiles and switched over to just saying MAP. Now you’ve managed to trigger my instinctual revulsion toward euphemisms so I’ve no idea what to think >_>
PS: Tom’s interdict seems to have been super-effective. This post isn’t going to come close to 100 comments.

gantier99

Late reaction. I’ve been busy as hell.
@Sylvie:
Judge on sentencing: “These boys were all vulnerable and gravely ill. In all my years on the bench, I have never come across such a grotesque betrayal of your Hippocratic oath.”
I’ll assume the reporting is true as well. I know there is not likely to be anyone here that condones this kind of behaviour, but “out there” paedophiles are paedophiles and abuse is abuse (and consensus is delusional etc etc, we’ve heard it all). That’s why we ought to be gripping this nettle very tightly. We’re looking at our paedophile Achilles heel here (that’s as Greek as I’ll be going btw): the objects of our attraction are potentially clueless about what we ask of them. And if you happen to be suffering from leukaemia you’re hardly likely to even be in the mood. And with your doctor! That’s why this particular story made me feel quite wretched. We can’t ignore this, this man is our brother, we must understand how he reasoned with himself, we should find ways to help him and others in a similar situation. It might even earn us some respect.
MAPS: I only use the expression here, and only if I mean the wider meaning. IRL I’m a paedo (to those that know), I like this form and I think it can be reclaimed. If I said I was a MAP, most people I know would think preparations for my next hike had gone to my head.
Outing: Exactly, willingness in the child is the key to at least a neutral acceptance. The further down you go in age the more problematic this is. Most people I know would not readily accept that a 10 year old could be willing. Then you have to carefully use concepts like age appropriateness and perhaps gently ask what he/she remembers from that time. I have just outed to a close relative and it was definitely worth the effort.
@A.:
Your study: Thanks for reminding me and it is very reassuring to hear that the percentage of those who make a habit of rape, sexual assault and grey-area boundary-pushing is just about exactly the same among CL men as it is among teleiophilic heterosexual men. However, given that children have a lower life-experience level I would have hoped that the figure was lower among CL men than among adult lovers. CL-situations require a great deal more empathy.
Being a dad: Yes, that was my priority too when my kids were of an age when they brought home very attractive friends. A bit of innocent flirting to a certain level, and that’s it. Being a good parent is the priority. Which again is why that doctor story is so wretched. Being a good doctor ought to have been the priority one would think.
Ice cream: In untangling the tangles of a previous episode involving memories several decades old I use the ice cream test. If I got a look like I was offering to buy the biggest ice cream in the shop, there was consent. If not, no real consent, as in passivity is not consent. There is obviously more to this ice cream thing than meets the eye!

A.

I really have got to start consolidating then and make your life easier. Proposed procedure: Draft post; go and have a cup of tea and allow any further ideas to percolate through; complete post. Result: cut personal post count by a third!
Happy birthday and thanks for the hard work! This space is pretty invaluable at the moment. It’s where thinking paedos go to…well, not quite sure what the best word would be for what we are doing, but it’s where thinking paedos go, at any rate.

James

Don’t worry. I can never remember birthdays either. I jokingly tell people that it’s because I’m a Jehovah’s Witness (my paternal grandmother was).
I’m loving the gratuitous statistics.
When you said “The sex* is too good for that” I actually thought you meant the sex ratio had gotten good. LOL.
“what I think I need to do from now on is to restrict the number of comments per blog to 100.”
Given the speed at which comments come in what’ll end up happening is that we’ll hit the barrier and lock discussion in the first three days, then shamble around aimlessly waiting for your next post. Or, at least, I’ll shamble around aimlessly. I assume the other commentators have lives….
WRT the book, there might be legal issues with using comments. Namely, copyright claims. It’s fine by me, though. I’m an Open Source kind of gal.
Do the comments need to be MAP-relevant? Will there be context provided for the ones showing up in a long discussion? If any of my comments show up, can they go under ‘Jasmine’?

sugarboy

I would like to give a gift in the form of a new graphical format that makes it possible for replies to be read without damaging the retina even after three replies, but it sounds like an impossible task… However that may be, happy birthday!

Ethanic

Come on, i t can;t be that hard- just a little bit of code…
Impossible? You jest, surely.

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