How to rewild Generation Doomscroll

Almost half of British teenagers say they feel addicted to social media, according to a recent report. And those who deny it are probably, well, in denial. Or so it might be supposed, going by the latest feverish outbreak of alarm over teen and pre-teen smartphone use.

Have you noticed the sheer scale of it? It’s been everywhere in the last few months. The  on-going Millennium Cohort Study was an early frontrunner, foregrounding the self-assessed addiction crisis noted above. Since then there has been a steady drumbeat of demands for a ban on mobile phone use in schools, and even for younger teenagers and pre-teens to be barred entirely from having smartphones.

Parents’ worries have been all over the news and opinion pieces. They are said to be anxious over their kids’ phone obsession  and alarmed by the content to which they are exposed.

Is this a real problem or a baseless “moral panic” of the familiar threat-to-youth variety? Every generation in my lifetime has agonised over such alleged threats, only to calm down after a while and realise it was all a fuss over nothing. In the 1950s it was horror comics; by the 1980s it was video “nasties”. Media developments have figured strongly, triggering panic, a theme continuing into the internet age.

One reason for doubting just how much parents are really worried, as opposed to what the lurid doom mongering we see in the news is telling us, is to take a glance at the behaviour of parents themselves. In any café or pub you will see them with their eyes glued to a screen, often totally ignoring toddlers who are begging for some attention! And giving this revealing phenomenon its own attention has been Dame Rachel de Souza, Children’s Commissioner for England. Parents must address their own phone addictions before banning kids, she told MPs recently, pointing out that some parents scroll at night in front of families in “a totally uncontrolled way”.

Note, however, that the good dame is not dispelling any panic there might be. On the contrary, she endorses the addiction theme, saying many parents need to behave more responsibly and that young people themselves were in favour of it. Young people, she said, had told the Commissioner’s Office that they want “boundaries around screen time” and they want their parents to take away their phones before bed.

Really? Is this just what a handful of goody-goody kids have been saying to win Brownie points? Well, there’s that Millennium Cohort Study as confirmation, which would have been anonymous, so no Brownie points to be won there. Plus, this was a large study (of over seven thousand 17-year-olds) with statistical credibility. And there’s much more. A big piece in The Times was entirely given over to youth views on phone use, most of them expressing clear anxieties.

Left to their own devices? Or would their real devices and desires look very different, and find happier expression, if all of us were less jerked around by Big Tech?

There was “George”, for instance, age 16. He goes to a performing arts school, where everyone knows “all you need is one video to go viral on social media and you can be making money out of it”. But even this apparently sophisticated youngster says, “My parents take my phone away at 10pm every night. Deep down, I know that’s what’s best for me”. Does he have a point? Or has he been gaslit by authority?

“Carolina”, 17 – quite elderly by MAP standards! – pinpoints two recurring themes, FOMO and doomscrolling: “You do feel a pressure to have a phone and social media because people my age only use Snapchat to communicate, so if you don’t have it you don’t get invited to group chats or invited to parties as much…. Instagram is my most used app. I deleted TikTok before Christmas because I couldn’t control myself. It’s impossible to stop doomscrolling.” Sure, she eventually self-deleted TikTok. Others might not.

If even older teenagers such as these two are worried, maybe there is something to worry about. While their concerns are focused on obsessive use, adults are more inclined to home in on allegedly  harmful content. Some of it we can dismiss without too much agonising – such as that old favourite, “sexualisation” of the young. We, the well-versed heretics at HTOC, will not be clutching our collective pearls in horror over kids making their own sexy TikToks. Indeed, these youthful expressions of agency, artistry, and, yes, sexuality, were celebrated here a couple of years ago by guest blogger Zen Thinker.

But we would have to be blind not to see a dark downside, some aspects of which are sexual, some not. For instance, “catfishing” is no urban myth. The term, which means using a fake identity online for any nefarious purposes, includes blackmail in which the victim is encouraged, or in legal language “incited”, to upload sexual images of themselves online. These are then used as a threat: send more images, and make them more explicit, or the ones I already have will be posted to your social media.

We need little imagination to understand how devastating this could be. After a recent tragic case, though, we do not need to be left wondering. A 12-year-old girl killed herself after being blackmailed in this way. The perpetrator has pleaded guilty to her manslaughter.

We would need to be blind, also, to be unaware of websites that encourage troubled teens to harm themselves in a whole bunch of awful ways, including a morbid focus on weight reduction (anorexia), self-cutting, and even the promotion of suicide. The fact that youngsters are driven in substantial numbers to resort to such sites tells us something is deeply amiss, of which smartphone internet access might be merely a symptom but perhaps also a cause as well.

The latter view is taken by the famed social psychologist Jonathan Haidt, who has dug up plenty of evidence to show that youth mental health has nosedived spectacularly in the last 15 years or so – which corresponds very closely to the period during which smartphones have been available to teens and pre-teens. Rates of teenage feelings of isolation, loneliness, self-harm and attempted suicide rose in the UK and widely elsewhere, as reported by Helen Rumbelow for The Times in her review of Haidt’s new book The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Children is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness.

Haidt himself has contributed a whopping 8,000-word piece for The Atlantic that captures the main themes of the book – an article I have read so you don’t have to, although it is interesting and recommended. The “great rewiring” of his book’s sub-title is meant to be taken fairly literally (in terms of effects on children’s neurological development), but more broadly it refers to the short period from 2010 to 2015 in which, he contends, “childhood in America (and many other countries) was rewired into a form that was more sedentary, solitary, virtual, and incompatible with healthy human development”, with smartphones playing a massive role in what has been a social disaster.

Rates of depression and anxiety in the United States – fairly stable in the 2000s – rose by more than 50% in many studies from 2010 to 2019, he reports. The suicide rate rose 48% for adolescents aged 10-19. For girls ages 10-14, it rose 131%. Similar patterns emerged around the same time in Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and Scandinavia. Loneliness and friendlessness among American teens began to surge around 2012. Academic achievement went down, too. Haidt adds that surveys show members of Gen Z are shyer and more risk averse than previous generations. As if all that were not bad enough, from 2010 to 2019, the number who agreed that their lives felt “meaningless” increased by about 70%, to more than one in five.

So, what is to be done? It’s a tough one for those of us with a firm commitment to acknowledging that child “protection” has been massively overdone for the best part of half a century, and that the last thing kids need is yet more repressive control over their lives, whether by schools, parents, or the law of the land. The knee-jerk response, the authoritarian impulse, to perceived problems is invariably to look for what can be banned.

 

Hello, is this the county jail? Can I please speak to my parents? This photo and caption were a satirical response by Lenore Skenazy a few years ago when there was a proposed law in Colorado which would have criminalised parents who let kids have their own smartphones. Although criminalisation is a terrible idea, Skenazy does now favour restrictions (Photo by Jason Lander). 

 

Knees have duly been jerking like crazy in recent weeks. In a climate that has included entirely understandable lobbying from the parents of prominent child victims of online content, along with extensive media coverage, the UK government issued new guidelines calling for a ban on the use of smartphones by kids at school. One thing this failed to recognise was that most schools have a ban in place already, albeit often more honoured in the breach than in the enforcement: kids and their phones are not easily parted. Also, government efforts to force the big tech companies to stop harmful content appearing online have been half-hearted, partly for fear of running up against substantial freedom of expression issues, and partly because falling foul of the tech titans could put Britain at an economic disadvantage: money talks. So that line of attack may have only very limited potential.

Haidt’s focus is rather different, and may surprise those who are aware of an earlier book of his, The Coddling of the American Mind. Among much else, he and co-author Greg Lukianoff criticised the rise of over-protective “fearful parenting” and the decline of children’s unsupervised play. He sees a connection to them growing into “snowflake” students who need “safe spaces”, and excessively risk-averse adults, unwilling to be boldly enterprising. No wonder, then, that he has worked with Lenore Skenazy, author of the refreshingly pro-liberation book Free-Range Kids and custodian of its associated website.

And yet, in seeming contradiction of their anti-“coddling” stance, Haidt and Skenazy are both now promoting a restrictive approach to smartphone use. Is this inconsistent? Does it make sense? Well, let’s look briefly at the rationale. To do so, we need to recall what those teenagers, “George” and “Carolina”, were telling us earlier. Both of them – and presumably many others who consider themselves “addicted” to social media, would actually welcome the introduction of some sort of collective restriction on the use of social media. Remember that word “collective”. It’s important. Haidt even gives details of a psychology experiment that shows they would even pay to make it happen:

Even a girl who knows, consciously, that Instagram can foster beauty obsession, anxiety, and eating disorders might sooner take those risks than accept the seeming certainty of being out of the loop, clueless, and excluded. And indeed, if she resists while most of her classmates do not, she might, in fact, be marginalized, which puts her at risk for anxiety and depression, though via a different pathway than the one taken by those who use social media heavily. In this way, social media accomplishes a remarkable feat: It even harms adolescents who do not use it.

A recent study led by the University of Chicago economist Leonardo Bursztyn captured the dynamics of the social-media trap precisely. The researchers recruited more than 1,000 college students and asked them how much they’d need to be paid to deactivate their accounts on either Instagram or TikTok for four weeks. That’s a standard economist’s question to try to compute the net value of a product to society. On average, students said they’d need to be paid roughly $50 ($59 for TikTok, $47 for Instagram) to deactivate whichever platform they were asked about. Then the experimenters told the students that they were going to try to get most of the others in their school to deactivate that same platform, offering to pay them to do so as well, and asked, Now how much would you have to be paid to deactivate, if most others did so? The answer, on average, was less than zero. In each case, most students were willing to pay to have that happen.

Social media is all about network effects. Most students are only on it because everyone else is too. Most of them would prefer that nobody be on these platforms. Later in the study, students were asked directly, “Would you prefer to live in a world without Instagram [or TikTok]?” A majority of students said yes – 58% for each app.

Haidt calls it a classic collective action problem. It’s what happens when a group would be better off if everyone in the group took a particular action, but each actor is deterred from acting, because unless the others do the same, the personal cost outweighs the benefit. So, rather than asking individual youngsters to shun social media use, Haidt suggests collective action is necessary, and he recommends such action on four fronts that he feels could realistically be introduced at community level: No smartphones before age 14. No social media before 16. Phone‐free schools. That’s the first three. So far, so bad. Sounds grim and authoritarian, right? Just the same as the primitive knee-jerk reaction: ban it, ban it, ban it!

Percentage of U.S. high-school seniors who agreed with the statement “Life often seems meaningless”. Although the figure has shot up in recent years, since smartphones became a must-have for teens, it was already unhealthily high in earlier decades, reflecting the near house arrest kids have faced going back at least as far as the 1980s (Source: Monitoring the Future. Published by The Atlantic).

But it’s number four that’s the biggy. Haidt says kids should have: More independence, free play, and responsibility in the real world. Addressing parents’ fears over allowing this, he wisely says, “Part of the fear comes from the fact that parents look at each other to determine what is normal and therefore safe, and they see few examples of families acting as if a nine-year-old can be trusted to walk to a store without a chaperone. But if many parents started sending their children out to play or run errands, then the norms of what is safe and accepted would change quickly.”

Now we are talking! This is the point at which we can begin to see why the famously pro-freedom Skenazy would be cheerleading a guy like Haidt with his at least partially restrictive approach. He is talking about younger kids above, but the principle extends to teenagers: don’t infantilise them. Let them do as much stuff independently as possible. They need their own space in which to grow and mature.

In an article last week backing Haidt’s approach, Skenazy quoted him on his big fourth recommendation: “It would be a mistake to overlook this fourth norm. If parents don’t replace screen time with real-world experiences involving friends and independent activity, then banning devices will feel like deprivation, not the opening up of a world of opportunities.”

Exactly! All stick no carrot is never going to work. As Skenazy adds, “To open the world, just open the door. Tell the kids to be home by supper.”

 

NAMBLA LOSES LAST STEADFAST VETERAN

Many heretics here will by now be aware of the sad death last month of NAMBLA legend and my good friend Peter Melzer, who used to write under the name Peter Herman (including as a guest blogger for HTOC) and for many years steadfastly kept NAMBLA’s flag flying long after its other key activists had bitten the dust or moved on.

The news was broken briefly on BoyChat on 10 February, followed by a fuller obituary there a couple of days later. Peter, who had been diagnosed with an advanced stage of pancreatic cancer late last year, died at his New York, home overlooking the Hudson River on 9 February at age 83. Friends were there at the time.

I was not among them as an ocean separated us, but on this side of “the pond” we had met many times over the course of a quarter century or so, after I first encountered him on one of his regular trips to Europe in connection with his MAP activism. That would have been in Munich, as I recall, at an IPCE meeting in the late 1990s, followed in the early years of the new millennium by others in the Netherlands and Denmark.

We became good friends over time and he was a house guest of mine in northern England a number of times, in the course of which we went hiking together in the mountains. This was an outdoor pursuit we both loved, but well into his late 70s Peter, unlike me, enjoyed winter skiing holidays and loved to keep in touch with youngsters (not literally, I think, but socially) through kayaking with them on the Hudson.

Peter was “steadfast”, as noted above, in keeping NAMBLA going in the teeth of intense, never-ending public hostility and eventual disownment by the wider gay community out of which it had been born, as the mainstream of the movement opted for a more “respectable” assimilationist political strategy.

I knew him as steadfast in his personal dealings too. I will be ever in his debt as a staunch, reliable supporter and sponsor of my own work. You knew you could always rely on Peter. He was a man of integrity.

An amusing (to me at least) flipside is that steadfastness also went along with being downright stubborn and cantankerous at times. I found it lovable; but some, it has to be said, found it literally insufferable. A classic occasion was an IPCE conference in Copenhagen, I think it was, chaired, in the absence of the usual host Dr Frans Gieles, by another guy, let’s call him Mr X. Peter for some reason got into an alpha male, locked horns battle with a guest speaker. Neither of them would let go, in a “robust” exchange that seemed set to go on forever. And what neither of them were aware of was that Mr X was feeling the strain, being a sensitive “highly strung” type with Asperger’s. Unable to cope, he suddenly bolted out of his chair and ran screaming from the room!

It never got that bad for me, but Peter could certainly be exasperating!

Perhaps Peter’s stubborn streak owes something to the tough circumstances of his childhood, from which he was a survivor in a far more meaningful way than some other so-called survivors we hear about these days. Born in Brussels on 16 April 1940, his first language would be French and he would be known as “Pierre” until his high school years in the US. His mother, Regina (“Gina”) , was born in Vienna and had a good job there, but with the rise of the Nazis and Germany’s annexation of Austria in 1938 it was wise for Jewish families, including the Melzers, to leave the country. So Gina and her husband Herman (whose name was presumably the inspiration for Peter’s later pen name) went to Belgium, where work was scarce for refugees and times were hard.

Worse still, a month after Peter’s birth, the German occupation of Belgium began and the lives of any Jews were put in jeopardy there as well. Sure enough, at some time during Peter’s infancy his father was arrested by the Nazis; after being taken to France and made to undertake forced labour there he was eventually sent to Auschwitz death camp, where he met his fate in the Holocaust.

Little “Pierre” and his mother, Gina, re-united after their separation when Belgium was under Nazi occupation.

In 1942, two-year-old Peter had whooping cough. Gina, afraid her son’s illness would attract too much attention, had him hospitalised, partly to avoid detection as part of a Jewish family. Peter was then separated from her, starting a new life in Anderlecht in the none-too-tender care of a stern Belgian woman paid to harbour Jews, including a couple of other boys. And there he stayed for two and a half years until the Allied forces liberated Belgium, when his mother was at last able to retrieve him.

Young “Pierre”, who was an only child, and Gina would remain in Belgium until 1951 when, through the assistance of the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society (HIAS) in New York City, they were able to emigrate to America, their ship docking in Hoboken, New Jersey on 31 July.* By this time he of course spoke fluent French, and also German, like his parents, but English would now have to be mastered.

And so it was. As a clever, artistic boy, also with an aptitude for science, “Pierre” reinvented himself as Peter, an American, able to fit in and do well enough at school to go to City College of New York (part of CUNY, the City University of New York) and graduate with a degree in physics. Then he went into teaching, after a while becoming a physics teacher at The Bronx High School of Science, New York, where he taught for many years (1968 to 1992), serving as a classroom teacher for 31 years in all.

It should be understood that “Bronx Sci” was no ordinary school. It has produced the most Nobel laureates in science of any secondary school in the world (even one would be very rare, of course). Bronx Science alumni have also won two Turing Awards, effectively the Nobel Prize in computer science; six National Medals of Science, the highest scientific honour of the United States; and nine Pulitzer Prizes. To teach there was obviously a huge distinction in itself.

All the more tragic, then, that Peter eventually lost his job there not for any misdemeanour or shortcomings as a teacher – on the contrary, he won numerous teaching commendations – but because his membership of NAMBLA, his “paedophilia”, and his BL activism, were exposed in the media. Even The New York Times ran a sympathetic editorial, on 9 October 1993, saying “three decades of teaching without complaint and an expressed willingness to follow societal norms in his role as teacher provide no basis for denying Mr. Melzer his civil rights”.

But it was deemed he had to go. Characteristically, Peter mounted a stubborn legal campaign to keep his teaching post. This was partially successful: an appellate court ruled that he could not be fired simply on the basic of his paedophilic identity, nor what he chose to do lawfully in his time outside of his teaching duties. He could, however, be moved out of the classroom. And so it was, that Peter kept (and increased) his salary for another 10 years, earning a good pension, but having to work outside the classroom, so he landed on his feet financially. Although he lost the job he loved, he was – ironically – paid substantial sums to do virtually nothing teaching related, and left with ample time for BL / NAMBLA activism. Provocatively, one could argue that he was effectively paid to do NAMBLA work. Further, it has been suggested on good authority that his estate will include a substantial bequest to the furtherance of MAP-related scholarship. Arguably, it is stubborn Peter who will have the last laugh.

* By a strange coincidence, I also found myself, at the age of six, aboard a ship with my mother bound for New Jersey in 1951, just a few months after Peter. But we had left with my father from Southampton, England. He was travelling to take up a good job in the state, taking his family with him. Very different circumstances to Peter’s.

 

 

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equati0n

I do not think it is strictly smartphone usage that is contributing to the mental health issues of the younger generations. Aside from the fact that the first smartphones came about just after the 2008 global financial crisis, young people especially these days are waking up every day to a media that shows an endless reel of wars, genocides, and dead children. They are unsure of how to make a living, scared by debt, violence, addiction, poverty, and homelessness. They are unsure whether the burning planet will even support their lives by the time their parents are gone. And they are struggling for basic necessities after having their lives upended by the pandemic.

But I’m sure it’s the fault of smartphones and not the declining material conditions of the world in which we live.

matt

dark times.. im not allowed to talk to 18 year olds apparently as i make them uncomfortable according to this vile specimen i spoke to last night. he also talked about n**ces being stabbed what is the best way to deal with these scumbags?

Warbling J Turpitude

Ahem! Dude, if this comment of yours is meant be anything more than a rhetorical question (rather shoddy one at that), you’re gonna have to be a whole bunch more specific! What is the best way to deal with whom and what, exactly? Are you seeking some serious advice here, or simply venting again?

Last edited 1 month ago by Warbling J Turpitude
John

If Matt wants to vent then let him vent, for some unhappy people who have nothing better to say or are in a bad mood from time to time the venting is a harmless and therapeutic way of making someone feel better (not accusing him of venting of course) and maybe the people who do have something to say like Tom for instances should try to break the ice with someone who vents by offering them a another perspective to help them look at things a different way. One way to look at things Matt is by thinking outside the box, we know that the anti he is talking to is also venting and is probably a nobody with not better to do other than to state the usual blah blah blah and all Matt has to do is ignore him, problem solved.

John

Thank You Tom, if only all the brilliant minds of our planet where to get together in a room and decide that they need to find a cure for human stupidity (which I am sure somebody has already thought of) and succeed in their task then the world would be a much better place to live so I can only assume that no cure has been found yet.

HappyHumpingPup

>I can only assume that no cure has been found yet.

Well now John. Beyond naive repetitive platitudes for the infantilised, the long known obvious cure for post-Reformation Anglo fake media trash for their kept dumb shallow ignorant masses, is to wisely STOP buying or believing it.

Unlikely anytime soon in any private room or public place where in 1641 English propagandists published lurid and exaggerated accounts of the Irish rebellion that bore little resemblance to reality. 1641 is the first year in which there is a free and popular press. In effect ‘newspapers’, there are pamphlets pouring out that purport to be eye witness accounts. There are woodcuts of grotesque violence which are more shocking than anything we see on our television screens nowadays, and the sheer novelty as well as the sheer horror of this gives an overwhelming sense that there’s been one of the great atrocities of western history taking place over the Irish sea.

Re-quote, Anglo-Irish Victorian visionary victim gay genius Wilde, 1891, “We are dominated by journalism.” And, ex-Beeb insider Orwell, 1947, “Mass ignorance is strength for BIG Brother”

https://reviews.history.ac.uk/review/777

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup
warbling j turpitude

Really, Tom? I’m suspecting you’ll suspect me of some degree of snobbery for saying this, but is this matter of to vent or not to vent not of the commentariat-essence? What i’m after here is conceiving the thing as a case of function following form, the latter in this respect being some effort made at presentation however modest that effort night be. Function of course would be the potentially constructive aspect that results. In making the effort to make a nicely readable post, surely one cannot help but alter to some extent that ‘mindset’ which would otherwise have one permanently mired in disgruntlement, able only to dispatch gnarly snippets via the most convenient outlet?

Let’s not forget that the triumph of therapy culture has brought about all the problems, most especially in the very young, that its experts and practitioners have long claimed they wish to prevent?

In a word then, how is “matt” not signalling with each new snippet he is that victim so benighted that he cannot even bother to assemble a halfway decent post, iow to recompose himself somehow in the very act of composition?

OOPS – that just might be therapeutic in itself!

Last edited 1 month ago by warbling j turpitude
warbling j turpitude

Hmmmm…i thought what’s going on is obvious! We’re not quite done yet with issues arising in the ongoing wake of this blog post!

I well appreciate what you’re asking there Tom ( sorry i can’t seem to turn off the italic format button!) but ..

…is there some rule that all must be dropped on the previous post when a new one appears, or what?

My thoughts are far from gathered yet in relation to the sex ed front, but believe me, i’m working on it!

matt

quite simple really. how to deal with violent antis? we could all face violence.

warbling j turpitude

Do you mean “deal with” in the flesh? The verbal expression of vicious sentiment should not, methinks, be so casually confused with violence, by which i mean the real, body assaulting thing

matt

he did mention that someone got stabbed. which i do believe he meant that i could possibly be, probably not by him but someone else. But using this language is very disturbing and i should have asserted myself. I did however say people who stab people were.. well, i cant say the word i used, it might be offensive…

Prue

Big news about the actor Kevin Spacey, who had his illustrious career effectively ended – ‘cancelled’ as fodder for the victim industry – has recently given an exclusive interview responding to claims about him by the new Channel 4 series ‘Spacey Unmasked’. The interview is on Youtube, conducted by the cancelled former GB News host Dan Wooton.

About Spacey, adapted from Wikipedia: On October 29, 2017, actor Anthony Rapp alleged that Spacey, while appearing intoxicated, made a sexual advance toward him at a party in 1986, when Rapp was 14 and Spacey was 26. In the subsequent federal civil court proceeding, a jury found that Spacey did not have sexual contact with Rapp and was found not liable on all counts, with Rapp subsequently ordered by the court to pay Spacey $39,089 in damages. Fifteen others then alleged personal / criminal wrongdoing, and where these have come to court Spacey has pleaded not guilty to the charges. In the major court case that has resolved, in the UK, on July 26, 2023, a jury found Spacey not guilty of the nine charges that remained.

Spacey has, however, been forced to pay the insane sum of $31 million to MRC, the studio that produced House of Cards, for violating its sexual harassment policy. He appealed to have the arbitration award overturned, but the request was denied on August 4, 2022. It is clear there’s a lot of potential for financial exploitation of Spacey, which has so far been unsuccessful…

I’ve now watched the episodes of ‘Spacey Unmasked’ uploaded by Channel 4, so it’s easy to compare the interview w/ the documentary. Spooky music, crying and vague claims do nothing for me – pathetic attempts at emotional manipulation when what I really care about is the facts – what precisely happened!? So, I didn’t find Channel 4’s doc particularly impressive, but perhaps others will see it differently… Dan Wooton has a clear bias against cancel culture, but to his credit he guides the interview well by going through the documentary’s claims in order, getting Spacey to respond directly to them and probing him to elaborate at points. The interview is lent significant credibility by Wooton’s asking for, and Spacey’s willingness to make available, evidence to the public. Copies of emails, etc., appear on screen for viewers to see. There’s a clear effort made to appear open, honest and earnest: to be as convincing as possible. Unsurprising for a multi-award winning millionaire actor, Spacey is a very good speaker…

There’s likely been a lot of preparation between the interviewer and interviewee beforehand: it’s too well-polished to be impromptu. The same, of course, can be said of those who appear in the Channel 4 documentary. Spacey’s speech appears legally cautious, while the documentary participant’s speech often feels unnatural, full of buzzwords, coached, scripted and wildly vague. Either way, the contrast is fascinating and both are well worth a watch (at 1.5x speed) if you’re interested.

Last edited 1 month ago by Prue
Leonerd

   … a jury found that Spacey did not have sexual contact with Rapp …

Sorry, I’m wondering, but how it works ? They were sent in a time machine to 1986 ? Or used a “Pensieve” to look into their memories ?
If we do not take into account the absurdity of the very fact of persecuting people for natural social interaction without signs of aggression (I’ll reveal a great secret, but the interaction and acquaintance of human individuals occurs by initiating communication or flirting. People have no feathers and flirting is a natural mechanism for demonstrating interest and the second individual has the right to approve or reject such contact.) So, how can they prove or disprove in such cases what really happened 30 years ago ?

Prue

That part you quoted was one part where I’d edited Wikipedia’s language: I changed “molest” to the much more neutral “sexual contact.”

But, how did the prove otherwise? I don’t know. From what I’ve seen, and from my memory, Spacey says in his Youtube interview that any contact between himself and Rapp when Rapp was under the age of consent, was not sexual in any way.

It could’ve been shown that Spacey was elsewhere at the time of the alleged encounter, it could’ve been found that the accused had lied or relied on unreliable witnesses or testimony. And, with an event dating back that far in a very busy person’s life, there could’ve been a lack of evidence to conclude that a given event had in-fact occurred. Neither the accuser, nor the accused, could prove their case. Evidently, a jury decided said event had not in-fact occurred, so they presumably found that scenario more plausible…

I have not searched or read through Kevin Spacey Fowler Court documents, if indeed they are publicly available…

matt

whats everyones opinion on prince andrew??

Warbling J Turpitude

Could definitely benefit from a whole lot more attention paid to his yoga. Flab hardly becomes a royal!

HappyHumpingPup

>It is clear there’s a lot of potential for financial exploitation of Spacey, which has so far been unsuccessful…

Always respect true, not fake, victims. Include millions of true victims of fake media as the MeToo mob scam says, “Me too more dough! Thars GOLD in them thar olde fake feels.”

https://metoomvmt.org/

warbling j turpitude

Thought that the general climate of defeatery overcasting MAPopia at the best of times could use the glorious levity supplied by these here Polskis
https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSY1WFEGo/

warbling j turpitude

Yes i believe my streamer Myflix has thrown that show at me at one point or another, and as far as i’m concerned, the browner their little farting bottoms become the better, and the more currency we can mint in holy pedomummekels… But how is their magic done? Surely those lines are not just grafted wholesale from your aforementioned show?

Or what?

Last edited 1 month ago by warbling j turpitude
Prue

Has anyone here mentioned the death of comic book artist Ed Piskor? The dude killed himself after his 20 year career went up in smoke after being accused of “inappropriate messaging” with a 17-year-old female. Absolutely crazy and OTT response from social media, mainstream media, and the two-faced scum that were his work colleagues. R.I.P. Ed Piskor…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Piskor#Allegations_and_death

matt

bullies should be destroyed.

matt

of course i would really like to call out these bullying scum, but i would be censored…. and i would be the bully??

matt

There are only two sites i know of that allow free speech. this and fstube. twitter? well musk been censoring me, and i say he hates free speech on fB, and get called a freak! and people wonder why im not keen on americans?

matt

the people who do the news are so naive! shock horror britain has the highest number of teen drinking in europe. yeh, and?? how is that a surprise?

Prue

Some new Newgon pages of academics that aren’t well-known:

Mark Smith, a current professor of Social Work in Scotland, UK. He seems like a very based guy and I only wish there were more people like him. https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Mark_Smith

A colleague of the German triumvirate of Schorsch, Schmidt, and Sigusch, check out https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Martin_Dannecker

And finally, my god y’all have to read the review of Tsang’s ‘The Age Taboo’ (1981), by Cindy Patton in Gay Community News. Save a copy. Run it through a text-to-speech reader. It was copy-pasted to Boychat recently and it’s incredible to read such a positive, reasonable piece written by an educated and probably Feminist-identifying woman no-less. It’s wild but… get this… she can actually see people and how they are, she doesn’t start dehumanizing adults as literal beats (‘predators’). A great little bit of modern history. As the poster rightly stated:

A review from a mainstream gay publication that doesn’t violently condemn BoyLovers? And written my a gay woman? Hmm… things have changed, haven’t they?

matt

michael sheen labelled predator for seeign a 25 year old at 50. if an asteroid hits thsi planet and destroys us all, who cares any more?

sugarboy

He should unleash a ravenous lion in front of them. Then they would quickly learn the difference.

matt

i could arrange that

warbling j turpitude

Hey Prue, did uou see there’s a link to Newgon article given below latest Unherd article to feature (gratuitous) mention of “now happily defunct” PIE? The piece iitself is actually quite amusing, up until its conclusion where the writer feels the need to make sure readers know he’s not riding the shortbus.. When i last looked at least, that comment – by one ‘Julian Farrows’ – was right up at top of the stack!

https://unherd.com/2024/05/the-lunacy-of-child-liberation/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups%5B0%5D=18743&tl_period_type=3&utm_source=UnHerd+Today&utm_campaign=a14daf523d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2024_05_01_10_52&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_79fd0df946-a14daf523d-%5BLIST_EMAIL_ID%5D

Last edited 1 month ago by warbling j turpitude
Warbling J Turpitude

Hmmm. My own comment rode a sliver toboggan to the bottom of Mount Commentariat, instantly. Didn’t stand a chance. There it remains to this day, unupticked and unloved

warbling j turpitude

Well, when i said to the bottom, i did mean to the bottom (do Englishmen require a “literally” for everything now? ) However, i understand that many still believe Krarg dwells down there, and and will only scroll so far..

FFR, my Unherd (mooooo!) handle is don lightband, the software appearing to have just grabbed a gmail account name of mine..

Last edited 1 month ago by warbling j turpitude
David

A good new episode of the (mainstream) podcast Modern Wisdom with Abigail Shrier, not entirely unrelated to the content of the article: “Therapy use is becoming more prevalent while mental health is getting worse. Are these two things causing each other?”

Interesting points to get your attention:
– “Trauma therapy makes children feel more traumatized and less well as adults.”
– “We pathologize normal emotions, which makes mental health worse.”
– “Kids need more touch” 🙂

https://pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G454/prfx.byspotify.com/e/traffic.megaphone.fm/SIXMSB5216635083.mp3

Leonerd

Oh, they began to guess they had miscalculated somewhere.

Therapist: “Tell me how a bad man will force you to put your penis in his mouth ?”
Boy: “But he didn’t force me, I persuaded him myself.”
Therapist: “You are wrong, this man groomed and abused you.”
Boy: “Groomed ? What does it mean ?”
Therapist: “Well, this is when adults use your naivety and make you believe that what he does is good.”
Boy: “Like those people who cut off a piece of my penis ?”
Therapist: “No, these were good people.”
Boy: “They circumcised my penis against my will, doesn’t that make them abusers ?”
Therapist: “They are doctors, they didn’t mean to harm you”
Boy: “You defend these barbarians and blame the man who is my friend, took care of me and helped me with school. You want to take advantage of my naivety to convince me that you are helping me. You are a real groomer”
Therapist: “How dare you ? I’ll have to tell your parents that you urgently need treatment. Little bastard”

HappyHumpingPup

>“We pathologize normal emotions, which makes mental health worse.”

Not ‘we’ but ‘The Emotional Slavery Industrial Complex’, “No Profit in Peace”.

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup
Prue

Youtube link to her interview on Modern Wisdom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5YuHvB2eso&pp=ygUVbW9kZXJuIHdpc2RvbSBhYmlnYWls

I started listening to this one briefly, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH0R8zM-MkA , from 59:14How Gen-Z Girls Perceive Guys & Dating’, which is quite good though worrying. It’s not hard for me to see a lot of this media as part of a conservative backlash to what they see as the ‘sexual revolution’, leading to the breakdown of traditional families and monogamous relationships. There’s some grain of truth there, in that many people could well do with a greater sense of stability and security in their relationships than a ‘situationship’ or polyamorous / casual affair may offer, but I’m pretty fed up at this point of hearing snide jabs against ‘the pill’ / birth control for women (I’m looking at you, Louise Perry!)… I often feel like I have to watch out for the motte-and-bailey watching these podcasts… Really, I think their target is in-fact social media, which doesn’t mix well with alternative family and relationship dynamics when there’s a ton of people trying to make money off anything they can blow up as controversy, to get eyes on their content. Add fears over ‘children’ and debates about their upbringing to the mix, and you’ve got a lot of interesting and dramatic content which is also offers second-hand anxiety to its viewers: those who have children or those thinking about having children in the future know that they too could be subject to such intense and OTT scrutiny by randos online. It’s no wonder that people set up anonymous accounts!

HappyHumpingPup

Lil ask – where did the ‘antis’ cum from?

matt

from Hell

HappyHumpingPup

Check, Conway Hell, Holborn, WC1 (Water Closet One) Tu Sep 20 SeXy ’77 where Tom & PIE were FLUSHED by MurDark’s fake media made morons ‘Dominant Drivel’.

September 20th, 1977 Outraged Mothers attack the child sex men – Angry parents went into action last night against the group which advocates child sex. A bombardment of eggs, insults, stink bombs and rotten fruit greeted members of the Pedophile Information Exchange as they arrived for their first open meeting in London’s Red Lion Square in Holborn. Amongst the mothers in the demonstration were members of the National Front, pickets waving Front banners attacked any PIE man they could find. They kicked and punched and spit on them. Photo Shows: Banners are held high outside Conway Hall. Angry mothers and NF members shout abuse at any member of the PIE.

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-guardian-pie/25544021/

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

Defying lawful U.N. Rules – is the US/UK-led Anglo-talitarian new ‘Rules Based Order’ with Worldwide lawful obscene images of screaming children destroyed.

“I want my legs back,” the girl cried in Arabic. “I want my legs back.” You can’t have your legs back, little girl. They have been eaten by a hungry machine who needs them for fuel to power its gears. The machine needs your legs to keep the sky raining bombs…

https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/the-amputated-limbs-of-children?/

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
Ed Chambers

My apologies for digressing, but the Age Of Consent Laws cost me pussy :

https://fstube.net/w/ppGgwJSvvXFMhXh48LjtRg

HappyHumpingPup

00:53 “When you hit puberty, that is your Age of Consent.”

When minors feel SEXY that is their Age of Consent.

matt

true, but even tho 16 legal here, i cant or i get bulllied. not hate speech. so all this discrimination isnt tolerated is horse shit!

HonestyIsGolden

This guy is really cool and brave. The responses to his video are so weird and immature. I used to think normies were simply hypocrites (since we know from studies the vast majority of people are turned on by “underage” people), but they also just seem stupid to me. They are completely incapable of thinking about taboo sex, their brains just short circuit. Their fear of uncomfortable sexual questions causes them to only attack without thinking. Is it something in the water? Or maybe just something in the English language?

All I know is I would hate to have a “jury of my peers” making decisions with blind fear about anyone or anything I cared about. Better off with a judge who at least will be more intelligent.

matt

i want to comment on the pedo hunters videos on YT. but im not brave enough….

HappyHumpingPup

>the most important point: he was brave.

Braver than millions of former underage all the rage forthright fans?

Saying, “We missed having Beatles’ cocks by some old doorman – DOH!”

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup
matt

from days of yore man has attacked what he cannot understand whether it be witches, black folk, gay folk, disabled folk…. judges more intelligent? or just robots doing what the government tells them to?

HappyHumpingPup

>from days of yore man has attacked what he cannot understand whether it be witches, black folk, gay folk, disabled folk….

But none have exploited ‘others’ more than the psychopathic profiteering post-Reformation Anglos over 4-centuries ongoing on five continents. For their, ‘Useful Scapegoats Industrial Complex’.

Well exposed in the pre and post-WW2 all un-American witchhunts of the FBI and HUAC/’House Un-American Activities Committee’. Misquote: “Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the all conservative Republican Party? Answer the question – answer the GODDAM question?!”

Check, Tom’s fave Beeb Radio 4th Form: “Charlie Chaplin’s personal life sparks legal woes. Far Right Hedda Hopper, known as the queen of Hollywood gossip, was Chaplin’s nemesis, and she deemed him ‘un-American.’ Joan Barry was just 22 (21) years old when she arrived in Hollywood with dreams of stardom. She soon met Chaplin, 52, and the pair became romantically entwined. When the relationship went sour, Chaplin’s enemies – including J Edgar Hoover and columnist and radio star Hopper – saw an opportunity. Chaplin soon landed in court facing charges under the White-Slave Traffic Act.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Barry_(American_actress)#Chaplin_affair_and_aftermath

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct6d1d

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee

HappyHumpingPup

>The Beeb definitely has its shortcomings (along with a great deal that is first class, especially but not only on Radio 4)

Rebel HUSH Pup’s wrong to even reply to ex-rebel Head Teach Tom?
Public Service Flag$hit R. 4th Form – 1st class at pimping infantilised product-placement commercial, often femme-fiction, books, books, books, books. While omitting so much ‘news’ context that one HOT Loli MAP serial ‘Love Magnet’ with many compliments and NO complaints was BiasedBritCrap tagged ‘Monsta’ – LMFAO.

[MOD: ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC,. LENGTHY REMAINDER DELETED.]

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup

Erm…if all this is so, how did they get all those (Anglo?) people in the “studies” to ‘fess right up?

Ed Chambers

Rhetorical question no doubt Mr Turp. If anonymity is guaranteed, people fess to all sorts of leftfield feelings and fantasies.

warbling j turpitude

Well i certainly did not conceive of my question that way when i posed heem… Your response however has put me on track again, facing us squarely towards the sheer magnitude of that we’ll call the Unholy Orders of Anonymity, which all too many it seems have taken as life-commitments. Next study, perhaps: how many, at any moment, are sorely tempted to de-anonymify? Insofar as we’re speaking august British journals, i have openly “come out” at the Spectator, most recently expressing my dismay that new Wim Wenders’ movie (hyped by Slavoj Zizek no less) about daily life of Tokyo toilet cleaner opted for de rigueur, kulchurally-sanitising US schlockpop instead of invoking the genius-level stealth of Japan’s tousatu-sha/voyeur ‘subculture’, star quarry of course courtesy defecating schoolgirls.

I wonder what grade of moral fibre it would take for a public persona in Great Britain to come out and say something like “wouldn’t it simply be EASIER for all of us to readily admit that “underage” girls are by far the most attractive, and that we would give our left nut just to be on the everloving right side of ALL OF THEM?”

Last edited 1 month ago by warbling j turpitude
Shane

It might be ok to get molested by someone you find attractive but what if you don’t find the person who molested you attractive as a guess that would not be the same weather you have reached the time in your life of being able to get aroused or not?

HonestyIsGolden

This thinking is backwards, it’s what got us here in the first place – everyone is a victim all of the time. The infantilization of humans, teaching them they are powerless… no. People have agency to choose, including young people. If that agency is violated, that’s assault, and we already have a crime for that. If a young person chooses sex, no agency is violated, and it’s not a crime… unless you believe in the nasty feminist myth that young people don’t have the ability to make choices when it comes to sex.

Ken Adams

Even College age girls are being treated like they are 10 year olds with insufficient intelligence to stand up for their rights if they are offended. The whole issue boils down mainly to the insane idea that only men get pleasure from sex and that women are simply seman receptacles with no mutual pleasure.

Ed Chambers

Where has it been suggested molesting anyone is ok? As for being able to be aroused, it’s well known foetuses stimulate themselves in the womb.

Shane

the man in the video said he was molested and then said he wished he was molested again.

Ed Chambers

The point he was making was his experience wasn’t molestation. AOC prevented him from having countless other positive sexual experiences as a boy. He wasn’t molested.

Being molested, ie annoyed or disturbed, is not ok. For any reasonable person who can think independently, it’s not molestation if sex was a positive experience, ‘underage’ or otherwise.

Perhaps HonestyIsGolden is right, your thinking is backwards.

Shane

The point he was making was his experience wasn’t molestation. 

And the point I am making is that his so called “molestation” is ok cos he enjoyed it I am only calling it molestation based on his words (his words not mine) so please don’t put his words in my mouth.

Ed Chambers

Shame’s original comment says it all. No further comment Tom.

Prue

End of my “Renaissance” of making MAP-related literature available via libgen; I’ve bequeathed unto the world various important documents never-before archived. Filling some of the gaps that have annoyed me for a long time…

Here’s the last lot to be made available at this time. In no particular order:

Daniel Tsang’s The Age Taboo: Gay Male Sexuality, Power, and Consent (1981), published in America by Alyson Publications, and in the United Kingdom by Gay Men’s Press. This text has been incredibly influential, and it is only right that it be made available in the digital age. I personally know an academic in the field of intergen studies who was inspired to conduct relevant research precisely because of this book. The Age Taboo was for him what Tom’s Rad Case was for me. So, I can be sure the book has great emotional, symbolic and historical significance – and how could it not with contributions from Gayle Rubin, Pat Califia, Tom Reeves and a whole host of Lesbian and Gay activists?
——–

The next text is ridiculously rare but I will not be linking it here, you’ll have to search it yourselves. It’s Hans Blüher, Family and Male Fraternity: A Theory of the Eros (1994 [1917]). Type in “male fraternity” on Libgen and you’ll find it.
As described: This short publication offers original contributions on the life and thought of Hans Blüher, as well as English translations of lectures by Blüher. Assembled by individuals within the French-speaking pro-pedophile / pro-pederasty New Right of the 1980’s and 90’s, the text / illustrations are extremely rare and preserved here for historical posterity. Blüher was associated with the Wandervogel movement – a German youth group – which he defended against the accusation that pederasty was widespread in the wake of the Eulenburg affair; that it was a “pederast club” – by turning this criticism into a privilege and explicitly acknowledging male homoeroticism and its influence on the Wandervogel movement.

For those interested in the pro-pedophile / pro-pederasty French New Right, this will be of great interest to you. There is no record of the existence of this text that I could easily find in the English language, though there are a few scholarly resources that come up if you search Hans’s name w/ the pamphlet’s title…
Why am I not linking it? Because the publication contains two illustrations which are not “sexual” in any meaningful sense but still include non-detailed / undefined genitals – the outlines of the penis. One depicts a nude young male stood holding musical instruments, and one of a nude young male holding a sword. These would be unlikely to cause issues or problems for your average person, but I am posting on our dear Tom O’Carroll’s blog and Tom is not exactly your “average” person. (In fact, he’s much better than them, but that’s beside the point!) :p

I wanted to censor these admittedly chaste / “tasteful” illustrations, which do not show sexual activity of any kind but are nevertheless naked, and was chastised for it and convinced that they would not be an issue by the text’s owner. As I say, I think the vast majority of people would have no issue owning a copy of this text, as scholarly and strange [to me] as it is. But, I don’t want to implicate Tom or H-TOC in anything he’d be annoyed at linking to. So, the text is out there for all future scholars and people interested in the history of Hans Blüher or the French New Right side of the intergen rights movement, and I’ll leave it that!

—–

Third and final, Freddie Greenfield, Were you always a Criminal? (Fag Rag Books / Good Gay Poets Press, 1989), with a foreword by Charley Shively. I can’t say much about this book except for the fact that it emerges from a time not so long ago where all shades of homosexuals had lived similarly to the pedophiles and pederasts of today, and had a consciousness of themselves as “outlaws”, part of an “outlaw sexuality” as the MAP ally Harry Hay described it. The book probably does feature age-gap love and sexual expression, but I haven’t confirmed it and I think I’ll leave it to others’ to do so! :p
—–

So, happy reading, live long and prosper; and look in the comments below for more newly available PDFs of rare texts if you think you’re reading this and think you may’ve missed some. It’s my honor to provide them and my honor that you’d read them 🙂

Prue ~

David

Thank you for all the books, Prue.

>> End of my “Renaissance” of making MAP-related literature available via libgen
>> So, happy reading, live long and prosper

I hope this doesn’t mean you are out completely. It would be a huge loss for the community.

Prue

> I hope this doesn’t mean you are out completely. It would be a huge loss for the community.

Haha, thanks for saying that David, it means a lot. I am not all that easy to reach, but especially in the brief times I was active in broader spaces on the Fediverse / Pediverse, I did get some nice “thank you!” messages / comments. Since it’s virtually impossible to know who or if anyone other than me and a few friends actually reads or benefits from the Newgon pages I create, it is always nice and affirming to hear a positive word from others. But, I do what I do because it’s the right thing to do, because it’s a way I can meaningfully contribute to the struggle for a better world in a way that others cannot or would never think to or have the opportunity to.

I can say with a high degree of confidence that I will care about the MAPs and MAP-related issues for the rest of my life. I’ve learnt too much, read too much, heard too many moving stories and met too many incredible, wonderful, resilient and courageous people to do otherwise. Now, living with the weight of heretical knowledge is not always easy or pleasant, when a large swath of society ostensibly resent, deny and minimize any positive message about MAPs and age-gap sex-contact. But, I’d much rather live an interesting life, an authentic life (I have often been described as “authentic” by people close to me), than to lie to myself about the obvious bullshit and/or ignorance that many spew on these issues.

I really just want people to be able to live happily. I hate the hate. It’s so unnecessary, so unfair. There’s so much cruelty in the world and the issue of MAPs gets used to further that cruelty even more. Humans are finite and social creatures, and yet everywhere it seems that many people are pushing for more rules, more restrictions, more barriers to sex and love and relationships.

The “age gap” discourse is getting more insane by the day, and is overextending itself in coming for the teiliophiles now too (another nail in its coffin)… I never thought it would happen to me. I thought it was just crazy people online, and while it may well largely be that, these are unfortunately real people and their messages on these issues permeate out into the wider culture. In my personal life I have come up against the age taboo twice now in what would have been both perfectly lawful interactions but were nevertheless felt on some level to be problematic by the other party, despite being perfectly pleasant and in one case very romantic before our (in my view) very small age gaps became known… I’d never had that problem before. The issue of “age consciousness” and sexuality has gone too far in the oppressive, restrictive, tyrannical direction, and threatens to foreclose many people’s access to what could be genuinely happy, loving and meaningful relationships and interactions if only they were given a chance. One day, and trust me I have seen it, it all ends. You’ll be dead, and it won’t matter whether the person you married, had sex with, raised kids with, was 10, 20, or 30 years older/younger when you met them. What will matter in the end is whether you had good times together, you treated each other well. That’s what we should care about.

So, not to worry. I’m not going anywhere. I know I’m on the right side of history even if various societies do not go in the much more relaxed, kind and fun-loving direction I’d like to see. There will always be spaces of resistance to the age taboo, to various harmless but nevertheless stigmatized sexual taboos, and that’s where you’ll find me 🙂

Rant. Over. :p

warbling j turpitude

What is astounding above all i think, is that when asked, those who chime in/pile on so readily when it comes to spotting “age-gap” sin, rest their entire act of judgement on a single concept/term – that of “appropriate/unappropriate”. I doubt that any of them have ever paused, stood back and asked themselves: what do i think i might actually mean by that?” Does *appropriate* have any meaning at all beyond its blindly repeated use in all the ‘right places’?

It may well also be the most effective means Homo Hypocriticus has yet devised for socially masking sheerest envy and spite

HappyHumpingPup

>What is astounding above all i think, is that when asked, those who chime in/pile on so readily when it comes to spotting “age-gap” sin, rest their entire act of judgement on a single concept/term – that of “appropriate/unappropriate”

Er, Anglo SINtax/grammar, “INappropriate”.

And, un-astounding for ‘Homo Hypocriticus’ above/below all read, ‘Perverse Anglo Hypocriticus Dominant Drivel’ from MurDark’s SUN shedding darkness not light.

HappyHumpingPup

Immense new work, as ever, Prue.

Do you still have energy to comment on your findings that seem to show Ancient or Modern, Laddie-fans well outweigh Loli-Fans?

E.G. why was/is there a NAMBLA but no NAMGLA?

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
matt

i keep telling people i like girls , never say women.. they havent twigged?

Prue

That’s easy. NAMBLA was an outgrowth of the homosexual movement. And most academically inclined or educated homosexuals of that era would have been aware of Ancient Greek pederasty as a beacon of acceptance / tolerance for male-male homosexual sex. Ergo, as historians will state openly, “age-differentiated sex […] was the dominant form of male same-sex practice until the mid-twentieth century.” (See Cleves, 2020). Lesbianism concerns female-female sex and has a very different historical context compared to its male counterpart, explained well I think by this article which points out that even Sappho from the island of “Lesbos” (where “Lesbian” comes from) had the hots of female adolescents and vice versa.

Between males and females, even today, evolutionary psychologists will argue correctly that males have a preference for younger, more fertile females as well as neoteny – the retention of juvenile characteristics into adulthood. Until very, very recently, this was just obvious and not particularly controversial. Everyone knows this even today, and Red Pill channels lead the backlash in openly declaring this painfully obvious reality that the age taboo pushes us all to deny.

Actual pedophilia, in the post-1970s clinical sense of a preferential attraction to pre-pubertal children, especially exclusive attraction, is non-normative. Both gay and straight. That doesn’t make it inherently a problem or an issue, and it is blindingly obvious to me that within an evolutionary framework (if that’s what science types are concerned with), MAPs – who tend to feel an overwhelming sense of affection, love and tenderness towards the pre-pubertal – would serve as the caretakers, guides and sexual initiators / practice participants of the young before adolescence.

So called “Ephebophilia”, attraction to people who are sexually developmentally mature, is normative among humans. And that accounts for the discrepancy between pedophilia proper and virtually everyone else, except heterosexual females who will tend to go for older males unless this is shamed or tabooed (as it is increasingly in the West). Again, no hate intended to the P, but these are the reasons (as I see it) for the differences both historically and today.

There didn’t need to be a NAMBLA for males-females because NAMBLA’s initial focus on gay male teenagers and teen hustlers in particular, was within the remit of what it meant to be “homosexual” at the time, and it was homosexuality itself that was considered at-issue: still despised and hated. It was not, unlike today, just about sex or desire based on the sole criteria of age alone. “Man/girl” ephebephilia, attraction to female teens and teen attraction to older males, wasn’t a big issue at the time and needed no advocacy group…

Leonerd

As an old timer who still hasn’t gotten around to seeing The Matrix, never mind following Red Pill channels

I hope you took the time to listen Pedologues podcast, Tom. Just in case, I’ll leave a link to first episode. https://fstube.net/w/6ttzyUQkQuSuWxSyNsby6c
(unfortunately, the episodes are not collected in a playlist and you will have to find each episode manually) This is something MAPs should be proud of and promote. Ideally, there should have been many more podcasts like this over the past 20 years.

Leonerd

The impatient can listen to this podcast at night before falling asleep.

David

Thank you Leonard for bringing this into my attention. I have listened to the first episode and enjoyed it, but honestly hope following 29 episodes would be better, more thoughtful, etc.

We need more Toms and Prues and let them talk publicly :). It takes talent, wisdom, knowledge, and skills to be able to discuss these issues in a productive way understandable to broader audience.

Leonerd

Episode 8 can be skipped. The rest are interesting to listen to, despite their slowness. It’s a shame that this podcast never became a regular thing.

Prue

Pearl Bailey of JustPearlyThings, got a lot of exposure for saying that “16 year-olds are hotter than 25-year-olds”. She’s speaking of females here, and clearly trying to mirror and reflect what she thinks her mostly male audience will agree with.

There’s most famously Andrew Tate, who I will make no comment on.

There’s the Whatever podcast / channel which I don’t really care for, since much of their content seems to be getting on young, ridiculously hot women who do OnlyFans and arguing with / shaming them for it. But, they’ll tend to make the same points about how males will want you most while you’re young, and put it to them that they’re ruining their best years (which I don’t agree with; I said I’m about having fun remember! So what if a gal has a good time showing herself off and makes money from it; better than stacking shelves! And no, despite what the Red Pillers think, these very attractive women will have no trouble finding a man at virtually a moment’s notice even when they’re over 30…)

I should probably introduce you to the slightly horrible concept of “the wall”; no, they don’t mean Pink Floyd. They mean that women of 30+ have “hit the wall”. The idea being that their biological clock is ticking and now they’ve got to stop fucking around and find a serious partner who’ll be willing to commit to them and raise a family. Now, you will occasionally see said in the comments, she has to find someone to “drag down” with her.

The more tasteful and interesting channel I’d recommend is Hoe_Math. They’re generally short videos, quippy, entertaining, thought provoking. Even if you find you don’t agree with some there will probably be points in others that you will, and the fact that his channel has grown exponentially in a very short time is an indication that his content resonates w/ the masses.

Here’s a literal YouTube ‘short’ – a short clip that will repeat constantly, of him speaking about dating younger females. https://youtube.com/shorts/foHL7X4rdqk?feature=shared

The comments sections are always incredible to read and honestly quite emotional.

Some of this content is just taking the piss [ https://youtu.be/7BY83m_4SGw?feature=shared ] or rage bait designed to piss people off [ https://youtu.be/C2lS5rYNNpc?feature=shared ].

And lol you haven’t watched the Matrix!? 😮 It wouldn’t be up there for me as a top film but it’s well produced and easy to watch. (Though, maybe a bit disturbing too…) I think Tom needs a movie night :p

David

> I should probably introduce you to the slightly horrible concept of “the wall”; no, they don’t mean Pink Floyd. They mean that women of 30+ have “hit the wall”.

Although I don’t follow the Red Pill stuff, I’ve heard (and seen with my own eyes) quite a bit about the problem of women who live under the false idea that they have plenty of time to find a solid partner to start a family with and delay conceiving their first child until it’s too late. Today’s culture/society seems to advise against having a child “too soon”, but completely forgets to mention that “too late” is just around the corner. Back when I was young, pregnancy in women after 28 was always considered high-risk. I think our bodies have not yet evolved to meet the current cultural norms. The result is a declining birth rate and many involuntarily childless and unhappy women.

This issue is discussed in detail in this documentary, which I have not yet seen in its entirety yet, but the first part is available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@birthgap

Prue

>”Back when I was young, pregnancy in women after 28 was always considered high-risk.

That’s incredible to me bc now it seems like 28 would be considered young to have children, at least for educated / not poor women and women who didn’t get pregnant by accident in their teens or early 20s.

I have come to believe that “life” starts far too late for many people, and increasingly feel that setting 18 as a guiding light cultural benchmark for virtually everything that makes significant differences in the quality of what will be your “adult” life (work, sexual contact, higher education, etc.) is too late. I’d refer anyone reading this to Stevi Jackson’s book that I quoted in this piece on Phillip Schofield. I’m all for independent, agentic kids.

I do feel that, in odd desire to extend childhood (and probably preserve a rapidly fading sense of hierarchy/superiority on the part of some adults), young people are often treated like they’re idiots and incapable. I saw that difference in experiencing being in a top class for something in school vs a lower class. For those lower ranked classes, I was not taught or even aware that there was other content I could have been learning out there: I was structurally kept from learning more, getting better grades, and moving up in the system. From my own experience at least, for the majority of people I have deep reservations about separate tiers for tests and exams and would prefer standardized tests where there’s no arbitrary cap and everyone can try for the best mark/grade possible.

Back to having children, I do however, think it’s a great thing that many people put off having children for ethical reasons. Usually, bc they think (and I have this thought process too so I could just be projecting), that they’re not in a good enough social/financial position to give a kid or kids a good life.

Leonerd

Back to having children, I do however, think it’s a great thing that many people put off having children for ethical reasons. Usually, bc they think (and I have this thought process too so I could just be projecting), that they’re not in a good enough social/financial position to give a kid or kids a good life.

The problem is that they are taught to avoid sex, not to control it. This leads to self-doubt, infantilism and the desire to accuse everyone of “sexualization” and “harassment.” But if sex does happen, then as a rule it ends in an unplanned pregnancy, and possibly an abortion. Simply because they were not taught the safe sex culture.

Nature cannot make mistakes and allow all people to experience orgasm or become pregnant “before their time.” Nature tells us that we must be prepared in accordance with natural development. Any “precocious” skill of a minor is presented as something outstanding and ingenious, and only his natural sexual physiology is presented as undesirable and pathological.

We now have all the necessary knowledge and technology to stop being afraid of sex. But people continue to raise children to be sexually retarded.

David

> That’s incredible to me bc now it seems like 28 would be considered young to have children, at least for educated / not poor women and women who didn’t get pregnant by accident in their teens or early 20s.

I understand the socioeconomic factors of delaying pregnancy, influenced by a culture where career is considered the most important factor for life happiness. But believe me, it is a scam… Unfortunately many women realize this too late. If the average life expectancy of a woman is 80 years, when she realizes at 35 that she can’t have children, she’s looking at another 45 very sad years of existence without kids and grandkids.

By the age of 30, most women have only 12% of their eggs and their quality starts to decline rapidly. Strictly biologically speaking, it is best to get pregnant in your early 20s and it becomes increasingly difficult, especially after 30.

But no one teaches girls this today, nor is it talked about. And so most of them think they still have plenty of time. They don’t.

Random sources:
https://www.shecares.com/pregnancy/fertility/fertility-and-age
https://www.miracare.com/blog/your-chances-of-pregnancy-by-age

HappyHumpingPup

>Pearl Bailey of JustPearlyThings,

Bailey was a U.S. pre-Boomer Jazz Boss Bitch later hosting an After School HOT TV series until Sept 1996.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_Afterschool_Special

Davis (not Davies) is a born Nov 1996 post-Boomer YT Boss Bitch and political commentator. First rising to prominence as part of the online manosphere subculture.[3] Noted for her embrace of the movement and its ideologies, much of her commentary has been described as “misogynistic” or “anti-feminist.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Pearl_Davis

Prue

Ah I got her name wrong my bad :p

Davis, not Bailey.

HappyHumpingPup

>NAMBLA was an outgrowth of the homosexual movement.

Thanks Prue. Prompt, energetic and all but exhaustive, if not exhausting.

Shame the whole World didn’t follow Anglophone N. America’s ‘sexclusive’ lead and create WOMBLA, plus WOMGLA?

Meanwhile we await today’s Global pioneers forming a totally ‘sinclusive’ WILA WorldIntergenLoveAssociation?

Because, sure as fig-leaves, leaving out the short-phase AAMS (c.4-14) is leaving out millions of proactive minors HOT for adults in plain-sight since year dot.

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

>“Man/girl” ephebephilia, attraction to female teens and teen attraction to older males, wasn’t a big issue at the time and needed no advocacy group…

Following Swingin ’60s ‘Love Generation’ Danes/Dutch Theander Bros/Wilhelmus HOT Loli advocates. U.K.Tom & Co BL/GL all embracing PAL/PIE 1974 preceded by 4-yrs U.S. NAMBLA 1978.

While, in Rockin’ 54 Roger Garis had penned “The Pony Trap”, 1960 filmed as “Never Take Candy/Sweets from a Stranger”, and in ’55 relaxed (not repressed) France (Olympia Press) first published Vlad Nab’s “Lolita” finally U.S.-published ’58, filmed ’62 launching the whole HOT Loli BIG ISSUE/fake-panic ongoing unchecked. Followed by Jodi Foster in “Taxi Driver” ’76, and Brooke Shields in “Pretty Baby” ’77 also posing nude in HOT Hefner’s ‘Playboy’.

“Never Take Sweets from a Stranger” was produced by ‘House of HORROR’ Hammer Films. The twin themes of the film are paedophilia and child sexual abuse, and the way in which those with sufficient pull can corrupt and manipulate the legal system to evade responsibility for their actions. The film is regarded as bold and uncompromising for its time.

The post-WW2 growing anti-War Global ‘Rock n Roll Love Generation’ Boomers, ‘Make Love Not War’ too soon trashed by the usual suspects.

Color Climax was the first to produce commercial child pornography films.[7] From 1969 to 1979, Color Climax was responsible for the relatively large-scale distribution of child pornography.[9]

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

>“Man/girl” ephebephilia, attraction to female teens and teen attraction to older males, wasn’t a big issue at the time and needed no advocacy group…

Post-Olde Worlde European ‘Demon’ scapegoat folk-tales, “The Pied Piper of Hamelin”, the Grimms’ “Hansel & Gretel”, “Red Riding Hood Granny-Wolf in the Wood”. And, post-WW1 austere Weimar Germany serial child-killer “M” by Fritz Lang, 1931 (Joseph Losey 1952 U.S. weak remake.)

Where does the post-WW2 timeline of fake ‘Demon’ scapegoat child-panic ‘Big Issues’ begin?

E.G. The UK 1965 sadistic Moors Murders were not fake, but since then fake-media ‘Dominant Narrative’ sadistically conflated with benign MAPS. For ratings, profit, power & control over the kept dumb Anglo neo-Victorian shallow ignorant masses.

Rightly noted by Tom, democratically elected Hitler’s media MONSTA Goebbels was on the losing side. But post-WW2 billionaire Anglo neo-Victorian media MON$TA MurDark (New Age of Endarkenment) constantly wins while unelected, “Said LOUD and often ANYTHING will be believed by kept dumb shallow ignorant mugs! Fake Demon Reds under beds, to scapegoat Peds IN the fuckin’ beds.”

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
Leonerd

I would also like to thank you for your contribution to the work for Newgon and here. This certainly has far-reaching significance in the struggle for enlightenment of society and human rights MAPs. Well Done, Prue

Prue

Thanks Leonerd! :p

Prue

More things now available:

Hakim Bey’s boy-love fiction novel “Crowstone” (1983), something that’s extremely rare and has never been made into a public PDF before. See: https://library.lol/fiction/26CABE72D043303A4AF3CFA533741978

Now for a book, Homoaffectionalism: Male Bonding from Gilgamesh to the Present (1993)The book is notable for its discussion of pederasty, and was endorsed by many people who were sympathetic to MAPs, as well as a more honest history of male same-sex behavior.

[I had trouble w/ downloading this 2nd PDF, so if any of you have trouble, let me know and I’ll redo it].

More on the way waiting for approval, then that’s ya lot! :p

Prue

Two more book PDFs made available for the 1st time!

Thomas Waugh’s Hard to Imagine: Gay Male Eroticism in Photography and Film from Their Beginnings to Stonewall (Columbia University Press, 1996). The book discusses Wilhelm von Gloeden, and I suspect other representations of pederastic culture.
I knew of this book because it was cited and discussed by Gert Hekma and Donald Mader, in their 2013 Censoring Sex Research book chapter, which discusses the history of gay male photography in relation to pederasty, and its destruction and censorship under the banner of “child pron”. Quote:

The sort of evidence we have just discussed will soon no longer be available—indeed, may no longer exist at all. More than a decade ago, in the introduction to Hard to Imagine, Thomas Waugh’s history of male eroticism in photography […] Waugh already remarks, “Other restraints have led regrettably to some unavoidable distortions, especially the slant that today’s fanatical legal prohibition of the erotic representation of models under the age of eighteen has had on the historical representativeness of this book’s selection of illustrations. Earlier eras were—and other cultures are—much less timorous than our own about adolescent bodies and desires” (Waugh, 1996, p. xv).

The day had already passed when he could run photographs of a 16-year-old and a 25-year-old together as illustrations for his arguments about age dynamics in male erotic photographs (Waugh, 1984). Alas, by 2004, in his Lust Unearthed, an examination of homosexual erotic drawings from “Tijuana Bibles” and the art quarterlies mentioned previously, he is forced to explain.

This image [a drawing] of a gentle scoutmaster swarmed by his teenage charges (probably U.S.A., c. 1960) has been cropped in deference to the dangers of doing historical research in an atmosphere of contradictory, anti-erotic and anti-child paranoia, both legal and commercial. Ephebophilia has been accepted in other cultures, and the erotic dimensions of mentorship have been forthrightly explored by scholars within earlier, more open-minded regimes, from Weimar Germany to the pre-1975 U.S. (Waugh, 2004, p. 45)

[…] Institutions that do hold material of this sort refuse to allow anyone to use it; even between the time of Waugh’s 1984 article, which had been based on images in the Kinsey Institute, and his 1996 book, most of their collection was closed to him (Waugh, 1996). Nor does this impact only on material specifically involving pederasty or “pedophilia;” because of the presence of any images of minors, magazines like Grecian Guild are now qualified as child pornography in their entirety, and not only do they become inaccessible as evidence of the role and presence of age-discrepant relations and desires among homosexuals, but the gay community loses access to them as documents of its own history. (Hekma and Mader, pp. 178-180).

[Note the source they cite: Waugh, T. (1984). Pornography, passion & power. Body Politic: A Magazine for Gay Liberation (Toronto), No. 101, March, 29–33. – If anyone can find it, I reckon it’d be worth a read :p ].

Interestingly, in a 2017 article, Waugh stated that “citizens convicted of simple possession of child porn throughout most jurisdictions in the Global North,” are “arguably the porn wars’ ongoing inheritors”.

We won the porn wars. At least this triumphalism seems appropriate until one remembers that there are now more porn users in jail (or worse) than at any time in history (I am thinking, of course, of citizens convicted of simple possession of child porn throughout most jurisdictions in the Global North, arguably the porn wars’ ongoing inheritors – although you would not know it by the amount of critical scholarship on the subject in journals like Sexualities and Porn Studies). In any case, this journal [Porn Studies] is evidence of our at least partial victory. (p. 2).

———-

On to book 2!

The Boys of Boise: Furor, Vice and Folly in an American City (University of Washington Press, 2001 [1966]), by John G. Gerassi.
The Boys of Boise is an important historical book which, I was surprised to find, had no PDF available on libgen or annas archive. So, I’ve changed that! 🙂 Here, Gerassi documents and investigates the 1955 Boise homosexuality scandal, which led to allegations that more than 100 young men and teenage boys had been involved in sexual acts with a “ring” of adult homosexual men. By the time the investigation wound down in January 1957, some 1,500 people had been questioned, sixteen men faced charges, and fifteen of them were sentenced to terms ranging from probation to life in prison.
It is an important precursor to NAMBLA, because some of the people who founded NAMBLA originally came from the the radical Fag Rag collective, and alluded to the Boise scandal when they formed the Boston/Boise Committee (B/BC) in response to a similar teenage hustler scandal in the 70’s. This scandal led to NAMBLA’s founding, and it has been enshrined in history by Mitzel (1980) as ‘The Boston Sex Scandal‘, whilst Newgon has called it The Boston/Boise Affair.

Prue

Haha, thanks Tom. Don’t know much about Pindar myself, but searching “Pindar pederasty” online it looks like academics have it covered :p

Well, I held off saying it just in-case, but I can now confirm there are 2 more rare books set to become available soon! (There may also be a few extremely rare pamphlets coming your way soon, things that to my knowledge never before been archived)!

Will have to link to these various things across Newgon and share them in the chat to get more exposure for them.

Will be in touch over email soooon! :p

Leonerd

Hi, Prue. There is an interesting story related with your post 4 months ago, dedicated to the trial of David DePape.

A little lower in this blog, nudism is mentioned, and I remembered how on the Internet my attention was attracted by a photo from a nudist parade, which was attended by a cute naked young boy with a banner “My body is my choice”. As I found out it was a parade of activists opposing restrictions on nudism in San Francisco – Nude Summer of Love (2015 – 2017) You can find their performance on YouTube. The organizer was a certain Gypsy Taub, and the handsome boy at the parade was her son. Wikipedia has something interesting about her:

Taub also had an on-and-off relationship with David DePape, who would, in 2022 be charged in the attack on Paul Pelosi. DePape lived with Taub and Smith for some time, and he served as a father figure to Taub’s three children. He was also a best man at Taub’s wedding with Smith.

On November 9, 2023, Taub attended the first day of DePape’s trial for his alleged attack on Paul Pelosi, along with her two adult children whom DePape helped raise.

In 2019, Taub was arrested and charged for attempted child abduction, stalking, and child abuse relating to a 14-year-old boy who had been friends with her son. Despite court orders, Taub had sent numerous messages to the boy and attempted to have him run away from his mother, who was seeking a restraining order against Taub. In August 2021, as Oxane Taub, she was convicted on all charges relating to the case and in November 2021 was sentenced to 4 years in state prison, however she was paroled in April 2023.

it’s strange considering DePape was shown as fanatic of pedo conspiracy theory

Prue

Very strange indeed! Thanks for sharing; good research and presentation! I’ll look into this more closely sooon!

matt

porn ! its the natural human from for gods sakes ! child abuse images??? how can an erotic nude even be put in the same category as someone being raped??

HappyHumpingPup

ONE FUN CLASS per week from age-five should be natural ALL NUDE including the teacher with POSITIVE BODY PRIDE Pix n Flix, plus pins, caps, pants, tee-hee shirts,”DON’T CARE GO BARE”. Then, all-age fone cunts-pricks-bums will be natural FUN not dumb – DOH!

E.G. 1990s ‘Love Magnet’ Bold MAP asked by a bright HOT Loli, 6, “Why are fun nudey mags not for kids – we all know what we’ve got, and my Dad’s Page 3 Girl is near-nude?”

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/aug/07/bare-with-us-why-naturism-in-britain-is-booming

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Donald_McGill

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/nudity-public-guidance-handling-cases-naturism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Naturism

HappyHumpingPup

>The obsession with coyness is suffocating, not least in this journalism from the Guardian stable (publication day was Sunday so presumably it was in The Observer).

Quote, obsessively coy/uptight olde Anglo Victorians/neo-Victorians, “Pull the table-cloth down over the BARE table legs, the Vicar’s coming to tea.”

SeXy ’70s thru Nawty ’90s ‘Love Magnet’ Bold MAP was often invited to Speil Platz near St Albans and Eureka by Fuckham, er Fawkham BIGinHill, Kunt er Kent where Bare Boss Mark at the cafeteria bar would bare-faced say, “Back in a FLASH!” (Family FUN Eureka early-2000s RAIDED by uptight neo-Victorian UK COPS now NO Families – NO FUN!!)

[MOD: Remainder CENSORED]

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
warbling j turpitude

Mister Pun Ping Hup, if i may so address thee in Chi-Fi, i know many here seem to feel dialogue with one another *infra dig*, (perhaps even *intra dog*) but may i ask you this: if we took as working descriptor for the “times” we live in ‘the neo-Victorian era” , and started where it is said to, just how meaningful do you think sex would be for us today had the Victorians not found even a bare table-leg disturbingly arousing? I’ll leave the enquiry right there for now

I apologise for using the word *meaningful*. I am trying w/ all my might to battle the metalangauge of literacy. Useless fat, all of it – not even good for storing energy

Last edited 2 months ago by warbling j turpitude
HappyHumpingPup

>just how meaningful do you think sex would be for us today had the Victorians not found even a bare table-leg disturbingly arousing?

Not just BARE table-legs but adult gay BUTTS hanged until 1835, and jailed in 1895 when Anglo-Oirish (like TOC) gay visionary victim Wilde was witch-hunted to die in less repressed NON-Anglo refuge La Belle France, BUT not before 1891 when he NAILED the same ole dumbed-down Anglo ‘Dominant Narrative’ Fake Media PANIC causing the natural AOC 13, raised to an irrational 16 in 1885. Transcribed here from Oscar Wilde’s imagined Website ‘OW – Not The Dominant Narrative’: “The 4th Estate is now the only estate it has eaten up the other three The Lords Spiritual (vicars) say nothing, The Lords Temporal (idle rich) have nothing say, the Commons (media mind-raped mugs) have nothing to say – and say it! We are dominated by journalism.”

Meanwhile HHP – earlier CENSORED by ex-radical TOC?

[MOD: Remainder CENSORED. Actually, not this time. Just deleted mainly on coherency/repetition grounds.]

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

>just how meaningful do you think sex would be for us today had the Victorians not found even a bare table-leg disturbingly arousing?

HHP MODified:

Following Ye Olde Fake Bible ‘Genesis’ myths ‘Original Sin/Tree of Knowledge’ (pups piss-on) shame, guilt, fig-leaves. David is a masterpiece of Italian Renaissance sculpture, created from 1501 to 1504 by Michelangelo. the David was the first colossal marble statue made in the early modern period following classical antiquity, a precedent for the 16th century and beyond.

Michelangelo’s David with a height of 5.17 metres (17 ft 0 in) and proportionate BARE-dick with no fig-leaf, was displayed in Victorian era London where male nudity was contentious and the Queen herself was said to find it shocking. The museum commissioned the fig-leaf and kept it in readiness in case of a visit by the Queen or other female dignitaries: the fig-leaf was then hung on the figure using a pair of hooks. Historian Daniel J. Boorstin said that: The age of the rising middle class in Victorian England was, or course, the age of the fig leaf. “The fig leaves of decent reticence” which Charles Kingsley described, were applied not only to statues and graphic-art, but to literature as well.

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
warbling j turpitude

Come now Mr Pup, does this really address the nature of my question in any honest way? Methinks tis erring on the side of rather abundant hot air? Perhaps your “humping” moniker is more apt than you realize, always rooting around in the same old, now very stale scapegoats (“Puritanism”, “Victorianism”, etc) without much apparent evidence that i can see, that there is much constructive purpose on your part in doing so?

The Genesis story of Adam & Eve is nothing less than a revelation of the tremendous moral productivity of resentment, of which Eve had loads on tap while passive old Adam next to none…

HappyHumpingPup

>Come now Mr Pup, does this really address the nature of my question in any honest way?

Cum anytime Ms/Mr/Mrs/LGBTQP? same ole disingenuous Warbletune…

The age of the rising middle class in Victorian England was, or course, the age of the fig leaf. “The fig leaves of decent reticence” which Charles Kingsley described, were applied not only to statues and graphic-art, but to literature as well.

And the age of the rising middle-class meant the age of the rising reading-class. VICTIMS of the rising ‘no class’ mass-media Dominant Narrative. Perversely posed for ‘Public Protection’ in fact, in plain-sight (for the far too slowly rising visual-class) for mass-deception, ratings, profit, power & control over their kept dumb shallow ignorant masses.

The Anglo Victorian/neo Victorian fake virtue-waving Child Protection Racket supposedly saving young girls from forced prostitution by raisng the AOC by just three years?

Rationally lowered or abolished in one headline, “School or Sex – Consent Matters – Age Doesn’t” would have saved the whole World from long running ongoing Anglo Victorian/neo-Victorian mass-media mind rape. 

Bonus ask: If human brains are supposedly not fully developed until 21+ then, when are fake-media mugs’ brains ever fully developed?

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
warbling j turpitude

I DO like what you, may i say, ‘forcefeed’ into this, in that style of highly compressed ‘chunks’ that nonetheless, once effort is made to ‘uncouple’ their concatenation, reveal rather a lot of appreciation for what forces-at-work assumed the structure that finally became Victorian society and its formidable legacy. In my own reading, i might mention the woefully overlooked Dr Maria Agustin’s study of The Rise of Benevolent Identities’, as running parallel to what you yrself are writing here. I do not concur with what seems to me a very rushed attempt to mix supposed Christian “myth” debunkings into this, for i think the multifarious manifestations of human shame, embarrassment and guilt etc involve irreducible paradox aplenty, but YES, the matured mediatic brain is something that should have fallen from its tree very long ago, and given way to ceaseless maturation of intelligence.

You have triggered some mighty fine lines of thought for me here, and i thank you. An overdue engagement, methinks!

“Who told you you were naked”? An interrogative quite like no other.

Last edited 2 months ago by warbling j turpitude
HappyHumpingPup

>I DO like what you, may i say, ‘forcefeed’ into this, in that style of highly compressed ‘chunks’ that nonetheless, once effort is made to ‘uncouple’ their concatenation, reveal rather a lot of appreciation for what forces-at-work assumed the structure that finally became Victorian society and its formidable legacy.

This Pup thanks Turp for the uncompressed appreciation.

warbling j turpitude

Whoops, i see that i misread you. You are it seems thinking of what is “fully developed”/mature humanwise as a good thing. Quelle horreur! I cannot think of many things worse than a ‘mind’ that has crystallized IOW become little more than an epiphenom of its visceral sponsor, its brain

HappyHumpingPup

>You are it seems thinking of what is “fully developed”/mature humanwise as a good thing.

Turp is it seems false-binary SPLIT thinking what is fully developed/mature humanwise is either good or bad.

4-centuries ongoing on five continents where they don’t belong, false binary SPLITS typify Anglo psycho fascist thinking, and acting. Since their revered role-model fully-developed schizoid psycho serial-killer Henry’s post-Reformation SPLIT of convenience not conviction.

False binary Anglo fascist schizoid psychos SPLIT Ireland, Scotland, Wales, India, Africa, Gibraltar, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Australasia, N America, S. America Malvinas, Mesopotamia, Deutschland, Egypt, Palestine, Korea, Vietnam…

Quote, well developed brain Gandhi to fully developed psycho Anglo fascist Mountbatten asking what Gandhi thought of English civilisation after 150 years? “I think it would be a good idea.”

HHP MODified.

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
warbling j turpitude

Well SAID, Tom! We are a hideously long way from the likes of say, Koktebel, where naked families conducted mock-pagan ceremonies in fullest fleshly splendour, with centrality in the ritual always afforded to the smallest, most nubile girls! Far from sure however of the present-day summer status of that particular locale, as communications outta Crimea can hardly be said to be what they were …

warbling j turpitude

Well Tom if one knows where/how to look the plain photographic evidence for Koktebel’s…how might i say ‘achievements in the field of nudity, nubility and beyond’, is abundant, although it must be said i have not updated on the accessibility of such in quite some time

Perplexed

Perhaps this is Marxists influencing my thinking, but I see it as a sort of dialectical process. It’s not about getting straight to the “right” conclusion, but rather an endless process of point, counterpoint, action, reaction, and people building upon the premises of the previous generation, and following things to their conclusion, or discarding things which are, due to circumstance and evolutionary pressure, no longer useful.

To give a more religious analogy, it’s akin to the to the Israelites wandering in the wilderness for forty years. They didn’t go straight to the promised land. They had to undergo the formative process of shedding the mindset that had been developed and was conducive to their survival in slavery, to developing, especially in a new generation, the mindset and approach of free people.

Likewise, in a society that is so hung up over sex and nudity, body and sex positivity are baby steps in the right direction. First allowed in the adult world, after which people realize the world isn’t going to fall apart, and after which, the ever inquisitive humans and ever inquisitive youths will continue to follow and question. And there is something to be said of the metaphysical premise that “truth will prevail”. If something is false, then I cannot see how it can hold people forever. So, between the dialectical forces of “the truth” and “the contextually useful”, you might say, things will continue to play out. That if x is true, and y is true, and therefore z is true, if people eventually come to recognize x as true, eventually they’re more likely to pick up on y, and later, z.

So, while the process of history and society unfolding, as it were, is long, it does happen, and has a sort of inevitability to it. Because what is evolutionary bad for us, will not hold, lest it kill us, and the impulse to preserve life is ultimately very strong, in my observation- despite our best efforts to kill both the body and the spirit of people, if only temporarily, from a historical standpoint.

GenAlpha will be the next step along this evolutionary path.

warbling j turpitude

What can one hope to say? No matter how much ‘positivity’ and ‘unhung-upness’ we might bring about, where might that ultimately lead us? To a sustainable human state where taboo no longer exists but sex is somehow still just as filled with meaning, importance and significance for us as it is now?

But wouldn’t it really mean if carried to its (for want of a better term) logical conclusion that we returned to mating as aninals do, like with really nothing to the whole business? Lucky if you could even distinguish one encounter from another?

Or perhaps one could put it this way: have you never been maximally turned on by the vulnerability, trembling enbarrassment and exquisite blushes of a young girl?

Last edited 2 months ago by warbling j turpitude
Perplexed

Is there no reason sex couldn’t be a commonplace expression of affection and affinity? A recreational activity same as any other? Playful and fun, and common? Just because we don’t put it on a pedestal doesn’t mean it becomes less meaningful, anymore than any other enjoyable bonding activity is. Just less neurotic. It’s not a marketplace good- there is no reason to attach stupid notions of supply and demand and value to it. It’s not “cheap” because it is ubiquitous. It’s not less meaningful or unable to be special even if it can also not be such a big deal. Are exclusion and rarity and high stakes really so necessary?

Last edited 2 months ago by Perplexed
warbling j turpitude

> Just less neurotic. It’s not a marketplace good- there is no reason to attach stupid notions of supply and demand and value to it. It’s not “cheap” because it is ubiquitous

If i might now ask the obvious question, how then do you explain (away?) the very real existence of what i can only assume are thousands of “incels”out there, for whom “supply” has apparently outstripped “demand” since day one? Do you have a decent theory on what all that is ‘really about’?

Perplexed

It’s a consequence of liberation for women in a still highly conservative culture, to put it bluntly. Men are still under the expectations and roles of the patriarchy, where women are not. Men and boys still have to contend with being breadwinners and protectors in a world where they cannot have any hope of being breadwinners, and even if it were an economically feasible thing to do, couldn’t because women are no longer confined to the kitchen. Men aren’t allowed to be homemakers, because they’re bums if they do. So you have all the myriad voices in the so-called manosphere who correctly diagnose there is a crisis in identity for men and boys, but who incorrectly sell the idea that things were better back in the nonexistent “good old days” which ended for a reason. The solution isn’t to trap women, but to complete the process of liberation and dismantlement of the patriarchy. The elimination of gender roles, gender prescriptions, and simply letting people develop as individuals- however is natural to them, individually, and participating in their community as they individually are, rather than imposing molds on people.

It isn’t feminism that posits men are dangerous. It is patriarchy that posits that men are dangerous- hence the “protector” role for fathers, husbands, and brothers. But, just as with all power dynamics- who will protect women from their husbands, fathers, and brothers? This is also why most abuse is domestic and within family confines. The idea that the nuclear family is “safer” for women or children is utter nonsense. If it at one time made evolutionary sense for the big strong men to protect their women and children from the big bad saber tooths, the fact is that it has largely been turned in service of protecting them from the “other” big strong men in the world. The feminist propensity to point out the danger of men to women is just taking the patriarchal line of thinking to its logical conclusion: Men are dangerous to women and children. This is also the origin of the fear of pedophiles. And not without cause- men are the predominant force in abusing and raping children, just as with women- in the violent, coercive, and manipulative sense, as opposed to the strictly statutory, nominal crime (although, its criminalization necessitates the increase of manipulation and soft exercise of power, thus aggravating the problem and inadvertently problematizing things which weren’t entirely problematic prior).

And because of the Abrahamic/modern patriarchal element (found in virtually all societies), it’s “gay” for boys/men to openly have sexplay with their peers- and pedophilic for them if they’re too far apart in age. And also because of Abrahamic influences- sex play is taboo and a huge no-no, regardless anyway- hence the assumption that all sex-play among children is abusive, which has gained and is still gaining traction. Even though there ought to be no second thought given to consensual, uncoerced/unmanipulated sexual activity between males- regardless of sexual orientation or relationship status. Friends can have sex- for fun or just to “get off”. And not just have sex, but be affectionate- it doesn’t have to signify anything romantic or committed- just a simple “I like you, and like being your friend” should be sufficient for any kind of intimacy. This in no way makes intimacy with significant others of less import, when it occurs.

It also doesn’t help that we now live in a world where sex-work, which is arguably a necessary component of a healthy society, especially for those unable to find long-term partners or relationships of the sexual kind (monogamous or polyamorous)- is all but entirely criminalized, and even where legal, is off limits to teenage boys. Sex-work is mental health work. People need to feel the touch of other human bodies to feel loved and to be mentally and physically healthy. The body and brain do not register the sex or gender from which the orgasm is received, only that it was received from another person. Even if one’s “orientation” and attractions are stimulated by any given gender, age, and appearance- increasing the propensity for the horny. But it is the orgasm, not achieved by masturbation, is what signifies to the body and brain that another human being “loves” them, regardless of the initial stimulation. Virginity and celibacy are unhealthy for human beings. Religion and traditional culture need to go the way of dust.

The solution is to back away from “traditionalism”, religion, and patriarchy, and finish the work of liberation, equality, naturalization of the body and sex as an ordinary, mundane part of life, that is necessary. Anyone trying to shove women back in the kitchen and make men the keepers of society is not only evil, but engaged in a futile and counterproductive endeavor, which ultimately undermines the needs of its audience. Sex, intimacy, affection, and love- of all kinds- should be free. Free of price, free of commitment, free of constraint, free of regulation, free to express.

Last edited 2 months ago by Perplexed
warbling j turpitude

Far from sure how to begin sorting out in any useful way this highly confident sounding mash-up of assertions, none of which appear to show much sign of active perplexity!

But I mean seriously, how is one supposed to even get past the likes of this opening bit without wondering what on earth you are really trying to tell us?

.”Men and boys still have to contend with being breadwinners and protectors in a world where they cannot have any hope of being breadwinners”

HappyHumpingPup

Understandably perplexed, ‘Perplexed’ >So, while the process of history and society unfolding, as it were, is long, it does happen, and has a sort of inevitability to it. Because what is evolutionary bad for us, will not hold, lest it kill us, and the impulse to preserve life is ultimately very strong, in my observation- despite our best efforts to kill both the body and the spirit of people, if only temporarily, from a historical standpoint. GenAlpha will be the next step along this evolutionary path.

GenAlpha’s evolutionary path is already being terminated by mass family-killing neo-Victorian Anglo-Fascist backed Worldwide wars for profit in Ukraine, Gaza, and elsewhere. Some typically ignorant UK GenAlpha white teens recently asked what they thought of Palestinian families mass-murdered in Gaza, replied, “They’re Pakistanis ain’t they?”

[MOD: Remainder deleted. Far too long, rambling, incoherent, off-topic.]

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
matt

the natural human form is punishable by life in prison in the land of the (cough) free. Gods creations. and these so called christians make these laws !!

Perplexed

It’s only inevitable that Christianity, and more specifically Protestantism, would lead to such laws laws over the course of time. You can see the origins of it even as early as Christian Rome. When, arguably, the first “age of consent” laws were enacted. Original sin is a powerful doctrine. It’s the source of all Western society’s hangups about sex. All Christian religions, denominations, and societies are the inheritors of this doctrine. Even if some have shed the doctrine itself, they are still in the legacy of it.

Last edited 2 months ago by Perplexed
Perplexed

During the reigns of Justinian and Theodora, they enacted what could be called a proto-feminist agenda in many aspects of Roman society. His Corpus Juris Civilis (the compilation, harmonization, and standardization of Roman laws with his and his wife’s reforms) is the foundation of Western Civil Law to this day. Here’s an essay on the subject, and while he doesn’t mention this specifically, the minimum age set for women to become prostitutes was set at sixteen.

https://douglasaburton.com/empress-theodora-origins-of-womens-rights/

Indeed, concern for children as something special or worthy of consideration beyond just being heirs began to first develop as Rome was Christianizing. Restricting abortion, or at least regarding it as sinful (even if the early church didn’t “hierarchize” sins the way modern churches do). Justinian and Theodora banned the long-held Greco-Roman practice of infant exposure. The Catholic Doctrine of Limbo to address the status of unbaptized small children and infants, rather than condemning them to hell. Judaism and Christianity, and Islam all carry a certain regard for children, which makes sense since the Patriarchal progenitor of all three- Hebrew and Arab- Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael, Esau, Jethro- all highly concerned about having children and having a numerous, blessed, and fruitful posterity. Numerous Bible and Koran verses about the wonderfulness and blessedness of children, their value, and in the New Testament, of their special regard and innocence before God. The Roman Paterfamilias being curtailed so that fathers didn’t have the unilateral right to kill their children. Not to mention that Christianity and Judaism both were heavily influenced by Platonism, and the truth is that Plato/Socrates/Aristotle (the big three), and even the Stoics (think Marcus Aurelius) all repudiated sexual indulgence, and repudiated pederasty (at least in the copulative/sexual respect). Christianity, along with it’s doctrines of original sin and it’s sexual constraints, just took it to it’s logical conclusion over the centuries.

Last edited 2 months ago by Perplexed
Perplexed

Look. I just remember things, I don’t always remember where I learned them. And despite the power and vastness of the internet- the vastness and power of the internet has its own confinement. Search results don’t necessarily bring the sources I’m looking for, and to go searching for them would take almost as long as doing it without the internet. I’m at a place in my life where I don’t really have the wherewithal to reinvent the encyclopedia of knowledge in my head to go back and provide citations. I don’t say this in irritation, just as a statement that there are limits to the levels I’m able to condescend down to the “uninitiated” as it were. Perhaps someone else less further down the path of my line of thinking can do it, but I’m too far down the path I’m on to go back and retrace my steps from the beginning. I hope that “analogy” illustrates what I’m getting at. I’m not trying to be condescending, just clear. It’s not that I’m unwilling on account of hubris and more that I’m reaching the limits of my functional abilities, and timespace/energy constraints and am having to reconcile my willingness to it.

And I’m also at a place where knowledge and history have become very meta and, to quote Dr. Who, a lot of “wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey-stuff”. I’m something of a post-modernist and anti-rationalist in this regard. My lifelong faustian quest for knowledge has led in some interesting directions.

Last edited 2 months ago by Perplexed
Perplexed

Knowledge is useful, even if it cannot be cited. Otherwise, we’d have to throw out almost all of the human experience, just because someone didn’t list citations within the last 30 years.

Last edited 2 months ago by Perplexed
HappyHumpingPup

>Glad you put the “arguably” in, P. It gets complicated. What’s your information on this?

Journal of Psychology & Human Sexuality Volume 16, 2005 – Issue 2-3 Age of Consent A Historical Overview (Arguably uncomplicated Anglo-PEDant, “An Historical Overview”?)

Age of Consent throughout history has usually coincided with the age of puberty although at sometimes it has been as early as seven. Early on age of consent was a familial or tribal matter and only became a legal one in the Greco-Roman period. The Roman tradition served as the base for Christian Europe as well as the Christian Church itself which generally, essentially based upon biological development, set it at 12 or 14 but continued to set the absolute minimum at seven. In the past century there has been a tendency to raise the age of consent but the reasons for the change have not always been clear and the issue has been further complicated by the reluctance of many contemporary historians to recognize what the actual age of consent in the past has been. This failure has distorted the importance of biology on age of consent in the past.

Key Words: Age of consent sexual consent age of marriagestatutory rape sexual violence sexual abuse child sexual abusepaedophilia ephebophilia adolescent-adult sexual relationssex history legal history biology

WAY mo’ late starters, SEVEN? The Classical Age of Wisdom NOT Wanking! Pre-skool Sport or SeX consent matters not age, “Fuck football we wanna fuck!”

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J056v16n02_03

HHP MODified

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

>“There you go, the answer will be in there somewhere” – which may or may not be true.

The answer to ancient facts or myths may never be found millenia after the time of the basic Ten Commandments when few laws were well documented.

While well acknowledged now by many Christians is that Holy Virgin AAM Mary, 12, wed Holy MAP Joe, to be impregnated by an invisible Holy MAP God?

Finding firm facts in ancient patriarchal scripts is about as likely as finding firm facts in Anglo Victorian/neo-Victorian patriarchal fake media.

HHP MODified:

Leonerd

Age of Consent throughout history has usually coincided with the age of puberty although at sometimes it has been as early as seven

It’s interesting that somehow it turned out that people themselves, without knowing it, relied on Adrenarche and Gonadarche. Which can actually divide child development into almost equal stages: pre-pubescent (0-6), pubescent (7-14), adolescent (15-21). And their corresponding preferences: pedophilia, hebephilia, ephebophilia. Probably the current describing of Hebephilia should be expanded a bit.

matt

well, Republicans are highly religious.. their ancestors must be the wirthhunters of yore

Caban

The suicide rate rose 48% for adolescents aged 10-19. For girls ages 10-14, it rose 131%. Similar patterns emerged around the same time in Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and Scandinavia.

This is a very concerning issue, and Jonathan Haidt deserves credit for bringing attention to it, but it’s clear that social media is not the only possible explanation, nor necessarily the most plausible one.

Expectations for girls are much higher today than they were in the past. One study found that girls now experience more internal and external pressure to do well at school than boys do. Considering the fact that girls are more prone to stress and anxiety than boys are, it seems likely that increased performance pressure could be contributing to declines in mental well-being and increased suicide among girls.

We know that minors consume much more social media on weekends and during school holidays than on days when they go to school (see this study and this one for statistics). The suicidologist Tyler Black has presented statistics showing that the child suicide rate is 40–60% higher on school days than on weekends and during school holidays (see here and here). While this may not be conclusive evidence against the possibility of social media contributing to child suicide, it does strongly suggest that if social media is a risk factor at all, it pales in comparison to the risk factor of going to school. Otherwise, one would not expect to see such a large drop in the child suicide rate during periods when children are heavily using social media but not going to school.

[MOD: This post rescued from Spam. See comment below]

Last edited 2 months ago by Caban
HappyHumpingPup

>it does strongly suggest that if social media is a risk factor at all, it pales in comparison to the risk factor of going to school. Otherwise, one would not expect to see such a large drop in the child suicide rate during periods when children are heavily using social media but not going to school.

So, just anther ALL ANGLO FAKE Panic – for FAKE Ratings & Profit??

Aka, A I – Artificial IGNORANCE!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

matt

well yeh. school is torture

Marco Antonio

People should not pay so much attention to studies that take two variables and then if there is a high statistical coincidence, it is concluded that one variable causes the other. There are tons of studies in the social domain with this flawed methodology. Then, as you spotted, we need further studies to refute the former (using the very same methodology, by the way). I think that, overall, money and time are better spent in other things.

Marco Antonio

Now that I re-read my own comment, I think it was over the top.

I admit that looking for correlations has value in opening the way for new hypotheses. Like “I found that variables A and B seem to be correlated and I think B is mainly caused by A because there is a plausible explanation”. But, too often, studies are misinterpreted and drive the public opinion to simply believe that “A implies B”.

And I think that this misinterpretation is especially dangerous in studies within the social domain, as it may be used used to justify certain policies. For example, if a study found a statistical correlation between being an immigrant and being a thief, this can easily be used to justify restrictive immigration policies.

Marco Antonio

Maybe this is a little off topic, but still on the studies… I noticed that much of the MAP community has hope in scientific research to make progress with the cause. I am pretty skeptical about that. There are interesting things that are less prone to interpretation, such as surveying the age of the first sexual contact. But other things are largely influenced by cultural and personal interpretations (such as surveying the % of adult-child relationships that result in a trauma in the long term). Again, this can easily fall in the issue I mentioned before. I mean, if we happen to find a relatively high percentage where there is a trauma in the long term, it is easy to blame it onto the alleged intrinsecal harm of adult-child relationships, while, in reality, I think that many of such traumas come from the fact that such relationships are a taboo in this day and age. Not to mention that studies on this topic may take the subjects or the data from judicial cases, which can bias the results.

In my opinion, our cause (if you let me call it ‘our’) will make more progress with social movements, cultural expressions, philosophy, politics, and things of that sort.

Christian

Science can be useful to society on two conditions: first, one must listen to it; second, one must act according to its recommendations. On various topics, one sees too often policy makers (government, politicians, media, pressure groups, etc.) advocating poor science or even pseudo-science, and deciders (government, corporations, international institutions) paying lip service to science but not acting. Scientific knowledge about human beings will not provoke the progress of society, it will only accompany it.

Leonerd

The suicidologist Tyler Black has presented statistics showing that the child suicide rate is 40–60% higher on school days than on weekends and during school holidays (see here and here).

I assume this is a result of social pressure and infantilization. They have been conditioned for years to see many things as offensive and to take it as more painful than it are worth. Parents and school psychologists who do not give them self-confidence. They restrict them.

Last edited 2 months ago by Leonerd
HappyHumpingPup

>Unfortunately, Leonard, your source is behind a paywall.

Fortunately HHP breaks down FAKE Media Walls for ratings, profit, power & control over their kept dumb, shallow infantilised masses.

[MOD: Thanks, HHP, for taking the trouble to supply the full text. Yes, actually it is often possible to beat paywalls for anyone quick on the draw. All you need to do, usually, as soon as the page loads, is to go Control A/Control C in quick succession to select and copy the whole thing. It works in this case. I will not be putting the entire item into the Comments space, though. It is an important account (far too good, indeed, to be knee-jerk trashed as a fake media item) but at some 2,400 words it would take a disproportionate amount of space. So, while recommending it highly, I have given it a Dropbox link:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bdvid4kdc670o1awrkjfe/How-my-son-s-innocent-teenage-fumblings-saw-him-branded-a-rapist-Dropbox-copy.docx?rlkey=lrp8sw4gani7jmn1gs89hd0a9&dl=0 ]

Prue

I’ve just been reading excerpts from this story to a friend. It’s a truly incredible story: disgusting and despicable. A clear consequence of having no publicly acceptable positive discourse on young people’s sexual expression in Britain and America, and a massive indictment of Chinese whispers and mob rule when it comes to social media controversies.

Any young lady who sent her nudes to that young guy, was committing a crime, so from a school’s perspective they’d probably freak out and feel they have to be seen as “doing something”. I do not want any young person involved in this to be punished (especially criminally). What, if anything, should have happened, is exactly what happened to the young ladies in this story: they “were dealt with discreetly. A quiet word was had with them and their parents and that was an end to it.

He, meanwhile, is petrified of girls. He often tells me he doesn’t think he will ever have a girlfriend and I wonder if he will ever have the courage to find love. Even if he does, surely we will all be frightened of the consequences if it again turns sour.

Of course, any girl should feel able to complain about physical contact that makes her feel uncomfortable, but I do wonder why there is an expectation that a 13-year-old boy should understand all the nuances of relationships that often confuse grown men.

Perhaps my son did make mistakes that made the girl who chose to call the police feel uncomfortable, and if that is the case I am genuinely sorry for her. But is the best response to destroy his life by branding him a rapist and bullying him out of school, or to support and educate him so that he doesn’t make the same mistakes again?

——–

What an awful story. (Are you ready for the future? I sure am! *laughs nervously*)…

Another scandal recently was “ticklegate” from a self-identified “freshly 18” year-old wannabe Youtuber. She (rightfully) received massive pushback, before changing her claims.

I seriously wonder and doubt that I could ever date or be close friends with a large “influencer”, because they all seem like deeply mentally unwell creeps who’ll twist the truth for internet clout.

Prue

Please tell me if I’m wrong.

> Oh, I suspect you’re correct; even a brief watch plus some comments suffice to get an idea on what’s going on, and what everyone’s outraged about. It’s definitely nauseating, that’s for sure!

Joel

And another very sad one:

“French prosecutors have filed murder charges against four young people in connection with the death of a 15-year-old boy brutally beaten last Thursday outside a school in a Paris suburb. AFP reported on Monday night. The accused include two brothers who investigators say initiated the attack because they did not want their younger sister to talk to the boys.

According to AFP, authorities have charged three minors and one 20-year-old youth while outlining a possible motive for the attack. The impetus, according to prosecutors, was the two brothers’ discovery that “their sister was texting with peers about issues related to sexuality.”

https://www.thelocal.fr/20240408/four-charged-over-french-schoolboys-killing
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68744255

Leonerd

I’m currently listening to the “Pedologues 2004” podcast, which I missed. (it’s a pity that a search on the blog did not find any mention of this podcast, I don’t know if it was discussed here before) There, one of the narrators shared the story of how the girl’s parents put her boyfriend in prison for 20 years as soon as he turned 18, although the age difference was only 8 months. This madness is still happening in the USA because the laws remain the same. By the way, as for the podcast itself, it is brilliant. I’ll write my comments about this later after I’ve listened to all 30 episodes.

Perplexed

Compulsory school attendance needs to be phased out. And children need to be given greater educational autonomy. Granted, this would require a bolstering of social systems, and unhinging family welfare from employment.

Christian

The Covid lockdown showed how living through a screen is a poor substitute to real life. Depriving children of the freedom to explore the outer world without adult supervision is a kind of lockdown, hence they replace real life by the screen substitute. Remember the “rat park” experiment: a rat living alone in a cage without anything to do and having access to a drug will readily become addicted to it; on the other hand that rat living in a park with many games and other rats will play and socialise, but shun the drug.
Addiction to smartphones or to social media is like any other addiction: to alcohol, drugs, gambling, porn, etc. Social psychologists attribute it to a problem in the addict’s life, not to a mysterious power of the addicting substance or object.
Technology, in particular Internet, should be at the service of human beings, not the reverse; it must be used for enhancing life, but life should not be used for it.
Before complaining about teenagers spending all their time on their smartphone and social media, adults should first stop giving youth a bad example. Everywhere, in the streets, in public transport, in restaurants, you see adults riveted to their phone, exchanging messages all the time.
Rather than banning smartphones or social media before some given magical age, it would be wiser for parents to restrict their use to a agreed weekly duration.

Marco Antonio

I totally agree. Between the total prohibition and a world without rules, there’s the regulations and the negotiations. I like that you wrote “agreed weekly duration”. Many parents wrongfully believe that parenting is just about being authoritative enough to impose the set of rules they decided.

In any case, this negotiation/regulation should come after the request of the child. If there is no request, it doesn’t make any sense to put a screen in front of them all the time. In Spain, there are now parents who have installed a phone in the baby stroller, in the place of the rattle. They hang a phone with a lace at the top of the stroller to keep the baby conveniently busy. This is crazy.

Then, still in Spain, there are also the parents who claim their authoritative status and organized a collective call not to give any smartphone until 16 y.o. I think this is equally crazy.

[MOD: I fished this out of Spam. No idea why it went there.]

Last edited 2 months ago by Marco Antonio
Marco Antonio

[To MOD: I think it’s because I edited the message several times, correcting minor things and typos. After the 3rd or 4th edit, I got a Spam warning.]

Leonerd

In Spain, there are now parents who have installed a phone in the baby stroller, in the place of the rattle. They hang a phone with a lace at the top of the stroller to keep the baby conveniently busy. This is crazy.

It’s not that so crazy. I also saw on the subway how a mother held the phone Infront of a baby in a stroller and he calmed down and enthusiastically watched the cartoon the entire trip.

Warbling J Turpitude

But let’s be really honest if we can, Christian! What difference is there finally between technics and the human? And how would you even begin to defend such a distinction?

Last edited 2 months ago by Warbling J Turpitude
matt

I have become quite bitter in my old age against the bigots. i even willed Wales to lose against poland today. even though welsh, i just knew the welsh crowd if there was a guy on the pitch who had relations with a 16 year old in say, his late 20s that a large majority would be calling him names. i am assuming poland isnt quite as bad, aoc is 15 there… but i could be wrong… welsh people are very bigoted when it comes to minor attraction. (yes, and the rest of british isles) but which countries are less? this is soem research i must do..

Harlan

At first, bigots restricted the free movement of children and teenagers on the streets, intimidating everyone with mythical predatory pedophiles. After which children and teenagers moved to the online. But now bigots have begun to intimidate everyone with pedophiles on the Internet in order to again limit the freedom of youth, simultaneously promoting censorship. What’s next? Sending all children and teenagers to a separate island ?

The suppression of youth can only be stopped by destroying the myth of innocence. When some brave young man will say in front of cameras at an international event something like this :

“YES, I fucked, I wanted it, and I liked it. Don’t try to silence me with accusations of “justifying abuse” and “insulting victims of sexual abuse.” People who like to drive don’t insult accident victims. What I and some other youngsters have done and continue to do is neither abuse nor coercion.

As soon as young people reach puberty, we begin to masturbate in our fantasies to adults, a school teacher, a mom’s girlfriend or dad’s boyfriend. Because we are not innocent, you know that yourself, otherwise criminal liability would have start since 18, but not 11.

You are afraid of any of our natural sexuality and, under the pretext of “protection”, suppress and deprive us of our feelings and desires. You are abusers, you brainwash and turn our parents into wardens, you use young people for your political purposes when you need to pass a laws restricting freedom of speech or youth freedom.

So, I say again, “we are not innocent,” accept that and don’t say you didn’t know. A lot of research has been written about this, but you have made sure that they are not talked about, you have made sure that nothing but scary stories are heard. You persecuted those who tried to tell the truth.

And I’m telling you the truth – we’re not innocent.”

Maybe someday someone will read this message in the archive and be inspired to give a similar speech and go down in history as a new Martin Luther King, who will lay the foundation for the liberation and emancipation of youth.

Harlan

social psychologist Jonathan Haidt, who has dug up plenty of evidence to show that youth mental health has nosedived spectacularly in the last 15 years or so – which corresponds very closely to the period during which smartphones have been available to teens and pre-teens. Rates of teenage feelings of isolation, loneliness, self-harm and attempted suicide rose in the UK and widely elsewhere.

They do not see the reason in their “protective” actions. Youth (and people in general) adapt to the environment. An environment based on moral panic leads to increased anxiety and depression. Hyperbolic political correctness led to the fact that people began to see an insult in anything, which, on the contrary, made their psyche vulnerable. Groups of so-called social justice warriors have formed. Indulging in mass hysteria has given rise to cancel culture. People are now afraid to joke and “offend” someone. All this affects all young people (infantilism, depression, anxiety, suicides and shootings).

Haidt suggests collective action is necessary, and he recommends such action on four fronts that he feels could realistically be introduced at community level: No smartphones before age 14. No social media before 16. Phone‐free schools. That’s the first three. So far, so bad. Sounds grim and authoritarian, right? Just the same as the primitive knee-jerk reaction: ban it, ban it, ban it

This is some kind of fascism. They will not have smartphones before 14, but will have a GPS collar to track their movements. On the BC, in addition to all such idiotic restrictions, I sarcastically suggest that all youth be forced to wear a burqa before the age of 18, and prohibit parents from bathing their children to protect them from soaping their genitals lol.

Every generation in my lifetime has agonised over such alleged threats, only to calm down after a while and realise it was all a fuss over nothing. In the 1950s it was horror comics; by the 1980s it was video “nasties”. Media developments have figured strongly, triggering panic, a theme continuing into the internet age.

Here is the answer

[MOD: Following my earlier note, I was fortunately able to retrieve this from Spam. Sorry for the late posting.]

Last edited 2 months ago by Harlan
Harlan

We are all in danger of sleepwalking to disaster it seems to me, adults as much as children.

We can adapt to this and find a balance. And for it to arise, there must be an equal choice between online and offline. Restricting one in favor of the other is not a solution to the problem. Stigma will still bother both adults and minors.

HappyHumpingPup

>What is to be said about the rational (or rationally argued, with supporting evidence) case made by Haidt and others that unlimited exposure to Big Tech manipulation can be harmful for us all, (including adults)?

Once more unto the MAMMOTH breach in the living room rationale…rationally argued evidence in plain-sight for the critical eye (not conservative mind). Anglo Totalitarian Dumbed Down Dominant Narrative fake media mass manipulation of their kept kept dumb shallow ignorant mob. Began three centuries before the current 3-decades ongoing BIG Tech World WILD Web often serving benign facts, trashing malign myths. E.G. Once demonised now deified LGBTQ (not yet P-MAP/AAM).

And, critically for rational Anglo-Irish Scholar O’ Carroll. Rational scholars of irrational Anglo Fascist Protestant Cromwell’s 1640s first anti-Catholic/anti-Irish Witch Hunts note, “English Protestants published lurid and exaggerated accounts on posters in public places that bore little resemblance to reality.” SOSS/SameOleShitSubtext, “Rule the mass media, rule the mindless mob.”

FF 250yrs to Anglo-Irish Victorian visionary Gay genius victim Wilde, 1891 post-Anglo totalitarian tabloid sex panic perversely raising the straight AOC from a natural 13 to an irrational 16. “The Fourth Estate is now the only estate. The Lords Spiritual say nothing, the Lords Temporal have nothing to say, and the Commons has nothing to say and says it! We are dominated by journalism.”

Natch, it’s all changed since then, the insults to a tot’s intelligence are WAY worse but the Anglo Fake Media perverse rationales for their kept dumb infantilised mob are so much better.

Check, 20th Century rational Anglo-Welsh scholar Russell, “Fascists rule by fooling the mindless mob, and muting the mindful few.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
Caban

As this article explains, the evidence isn’t anywhere near as convincing as many people believe that it is. A recent cross-cultural study with a large sample found no correlation between internet access and poor well-being. Here’s a screenshot of a Twitter/X thread with relevant commentary.

Haidt believes that one of the ways in which social media harms girls is through early sexualization. I’ve looked through his blog for evidence, and all I could find was a reference to two studies about the sexualization of children on social media (linked here). These studies claim that early sexualization causes bullying and lowers childrens’ self-esteem through increased social comparison.

I’m not entirely sure what to make of these studies, but it seems to me that the findings could better be explained by children not being told often enough that they are beautiful/sexy, not receiving enough compliments, and being needlessly insecure as a result. I’ve no doubt that school bullies target children who are insecure about their bodies and who believe that they’re unattractive. So maybe the problem is not early sexualization, but rather the sex-negative social environment that invalidates children’s desire to be attractive and to be validated for their attractiveness.

Harlan

the findings could better be explained by children not being told often enough that they are beautiful/sexy, not receiving enough compliments, and being needlessly insecure as a result. I’ve no doubt that school bullies target children who are insecure about their bodies and who believe that they’re unattractive. So maybe the problem is not early sexualization, but rather the sex-negative social environment that invalidates children’s desire to be attractive and to be validated for their attractiveness.

Exactly. I also wrote this in my second message, but it was marked as spam.

[MODERATOR: I’ll have a look in the Spam tray and see if I can find it. Spam marking is automatic.]

The social environment plays a major role in how stable the psyche is. Excessive political correctness reduces the resistance of the psyche and makes it vulnerable. When something is overly censored and condemned, emotional sensitivity increases. As a result, what could be insignificant is perceived as overly acute

HappyHumpingPup

>Haidt believes that one of the ways in which social media harms girls is through early sexualization. I’ve looked through his blog for evidence, and all I could find was a reference to two studies about the sexualization of children on social media (linked here). These studies claim that early sexualization causes bullying and lowers childrens’ self-esteem through increased social comparison.

Haidt – HA! Decades before the World WILD Web, sex-FILLED ‘Family’ mass media SEXUALIZED guilt-free kids beyond all control, posing or wanking-over ‘Family’ media near-nude adults as sex-objects and role models – DOH!

E.G. SeXy ’70s UK top selling ‘Family’ tabloid reader of MurDark’s SUN, “‘ere! my little son’s bin WANKING over Page Free agin STUCK to Page 2 – TOSSPOT!”

And 1990s pre-WorldWILDWeb ‘Love Magnet’ Bold MAP just met a ‘Family’ media SEXUALIZED 6yo HOT Loli pro-active raunchy posing, quote, “Have ya gotta camera? I’m gonna be a Page Free GIRL!”

Haidt – HA!

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

>As noted in my blog, the most substantial areas of concern (as opposed to the often hyped ones) are not about sex.

The post-Reformation 4-centuries ongoing on five continents where they don’t belong psychopathic schizoid Anglos (always newly invented) most substantial so called ‘concerns’/Moral Panics. Are what their kept dumb shallow infantilised mob will gullibly believe and buy into.

From supposed demon Catholics, to backward Blacks, to creepy Chinks, to oily Indians, to savage Red Injuns, to Reds under beds, to Peds IN fuckin’ beds, to Skool bullies & cowards, to HORROR Comix, to Mods v Rockers, to Punks in safety-pins, to Gay-plague Aids, to femme Muslims in Burkas, to Hug-a-hoodie, to Phone-porn bullies & cowards in preteen pockets… .

The undoubtedly talented scholars here and elsewhere would be better employed forensically analysing and thoroughly trashing the whole post-Reformation (of convenience not conviction) phoney Anglophone divisive, adversarial (anti-inquisitorial) conflict culture gone Global with so called modern Justice about as just as a mediEVIL jousting contest. Humanity’s worst perversely posing as World best. Still blindly following their 16th Century schizoid psychopath revered Role Model serial killer Henry V111 with no remorse nor empathy arrogantly spouting the same old mindless mantra in deep denial, “Dieu et Mon Droit”.

Quote, newly returned true Scot, true scholar for cohesion George Galloway back in Anglo Parliament, “This building is the embodiment of division.”

And, ex-Beeb Anchor (not Wanka) Paxman, “The English, what they like most is FIGHTING.”

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/117663.The_English

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

>This psychology of psycho-worship is not limited to Anglicans or “Anglo” history. It applies equally to “respect” for the likes or Stalin and Mao, and indeed to mafia dons and the biggest psycho of the lot, God – that wrathful dispenser of deadly thunderbolts, earthquakes, etc.

Precisely, mediEVIL fake texts (as reliable as modern fake media Mafia) and their psycho-God botherers are the kept dumb shallow infantilised mob or gaslit bitch Monarchs. All un-scholarly short-brain longtails knowing only what they’re told/BRAINWASHED to believe.

All others in History are AMATEURS compared to post-Reformation Anglo psycho-lonials over 4-centuries ongoing on five continents where they don’t belong, History’s biggest liars, denyers, self-justifiers, thieves, INDUSTRIAL mass murderers – Bar None! Humanity’s worst, perversely posing as ‘World Best’.- WTF?! Some gaslighting HUH – H.M.King-Queen Tom of MAP?. .

All centuries before short-term newboy psychos Joe & Mao by comparison bin nowhere, done NUTHIN!. Check, China’s ’19th Century of Humiliation’ by mass-murdering profiteering psycho Anglos, aliens from far-off other World Blighty, Until long memory Mao bought psycho-Joe’s new Commie fake deal – DOH!

And, not-nice ice on the Anglo fake-cake, Catholic King James V1 of Scotland made K.J.1 MAP of England surrounded by hand picked courtiers all young boys with slim legs and pert-butts. Then ordered seven Anglo gaslit scholars taking five grovelling long years tearfully quill pen-and-inking (no Laptops boys) the stinking Anglican fake Bible. Psycho-lonially backed by the newly stitched-up Union Jack/James Flag. Quote ongoing psycho-Anglo Global Mafia victims, “The BUTCHER’S Apron.”

And, pre-WW2 most decorated Anglo/U.S. Marine, truthful Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, “War is a RACKET! I could have given Al Capone a few hints. He only operated in 3-districts, I operated on Three CONTINENTS.”

https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
HappyHumpingPup

>He calls for militaries to be restricted to national self-defence. But it is always debatable how much is needed for such defence to be effective.

As always devious Anglo-masked, for ‘defence’ read ‘attack’. Unknown here if pre-WW2 Smed knew WW2 General Ike, who as Jan ’61 outgoing President his TV farewell speech first warned of the unelected U.S. ‘Military Industrial Complex’ acquiring huge power for vast Global Profits. Perversely masked (as now) by the compliant U.S. fake Media (for morons) as ‘Promoting World Peace’.

Always behind centuries Olde Anglo masks are their devious hidden agendas. Often too late found by Anglo true reporters-not-distorters, like Ellsberg, Pilger, and Assange falsely held now in fake de-Mockracy UK solitary confinement for nearly 14 years facing extradition and DEATH sentence in fake de-Mockracy U.S.A. for co-exposing (with mainstream journals never charged) U.S. War Criminals never charged!

Smed died pre-Pearl Harbor but, behind that ‘carrot’ snapped up by gullible Japs, the U.S. Pacific Fleet based in San Diego, Ca, was led by Admiral James O. Richardson warning Washington that moving to Hawaii would be an expensive and unnecessary provocation, sadly proven right. Tho then as now not wrong for the profiteering U.S. Military Industrial Complex, with enduring psycho subtext, “No Profit In Peace.”

As for Herr Hitler, an unknown Bavarian small boy (some MAP’S lederhosen dream) when 1890s devious Anglo elites Rhodes, Gray, Milner, and media MONSTA Stead (the Oxford All Souls inner circle) planned to re-unite with successful Mass Murdering Anglos U.S.A. for a future False Flag ‘spark’ to blow the 1871 newly unified Deutschland off the map. For being so bright and industrious building a peaceful Berlin-Baghdad-Basra railroad oil-line to transform Olde King Coal Europe into a clean modern powerhouse for peace. While Olde Anglow steamships for War were smokey slow having to go round the Cape for oil. And, post-WW1 studious, brave imprisoned Iron Cross winner Adolf knew the truth that French Field Marshal Ferdinand Foch spoke after the fake Versailles 1919 Treaty had doomed unbeaten Deutschland to unending poverty, “This is not a Peace Treaty, it is merely a ceasefire for 20 years.” Quote, U.S. Merchants of Death Bank$tas, “Do the Math.”

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
matt

i can see that one day maybe under 18s will have to wear the burkha so that we dont look at them sexually. doesnt sound so far fetched, does it sadly.

Joel

Yeah, I remember masturbating since I was 8 or less, and having erections when playing doctor with a girl one year younger than me when I was 6.

Anyway, I am discussing my pedophilia and the related societal issues with a woman therapist, who also works with kids. She has a science background and is highly respected sexologist in my country. She is well aware that kids react to sexual contact with adults in various different ways, and whether they eventually feel abused or not depends on various factors, including genetic predisposition, nature of the contact, and reaction of wider society and people around the child. She admits she have seen many kids who did have sexual contact in young age and do not feel any negative effects caused by it. She is also very understanding of my suffering from being unable to fulfill my romantic and sexual needs and understands why I feel injustice from the wider society.

One thing I must give her credit for is her explanation for why the sexual contacts with young kids are forbidden, or consumption of child pornography of any kind. What she is telling me is that unfortunately, there are many people in the world who are less intelligent, have worse ability to feel empathy, and want to satisfy their selfish urges. And there are many people who, just from the consumption of child pornography, might got the idea there cannot be any harm in initiating a sexual contact with a child, or do not care.

So what she is telling me is that although she understand my frustration with the society, the current policy is needed to protect kids from such people. And she is explaining that smart people like me will find their way around. She is even suggesting I should have more contacts with children, that I should think about changing my profession to be able to work with kids, or that I should try to find my own little friend and don’t feel bad about it, if I act responsibly.

There are many policies in the world which are in place to avoid some negative effects from the actions of the worst people, causing obstacles or discomfort to the rest. In our case, the stigma is so high it might feel unbearable. I also believe the stigma is so high it causes more harm than good, and this sexologist is of the same opinion. But I think that her explanation and advice is worth some though.

(Age of consent in my country is 15, and there were some discussion about lowering it to 14 few years back. Criminal penalties for pure consumption of CSA usually do not exceed 2 years imprisonment and are typically in a form of suspended sentences. Things are slowly getting worse tho.)

matt

wait, you have someone to discuss your sexual thoughts with and they have understanding? when ive attempted that ive just received hostility !

Joel

Sorry to hear that. Don’t you live in a place where waving rainbow flags and declaring preferred pronouns is considered the pinnacle of inclusion and social justice? I live in a fairly conservative country where the cancel culture is not a thing yet and real freedoms still exist.

We have a state sponsored program for helping people with paraphilias. People can go there anonymously and get all kinds of counseling and therapy completely free of charge and anonymously. I met many people there and I didn’t felt any form of condemnation from anyone I talked with – quite the opposite, actually. When I realized I need something little bit different than what they offer, they helped me to find the best person. I wanted an experienced and well educated sexologist to discuss both personal and societal issues surrounding pedophilia on a regular basis.

And she absolutely confirmed the science is on our side, mostly. It made me confident enough to be more open about my thoughts. My wife and all friends know about my pedophilia and are supportive. Although it didn’t exactly happy it certainly helped to lower the level of suffering, and allowed me think about MAP-related projects without worrying so much about the consequences of being outed or doxxed.

UK, USA, Australia and Netherlands are the worst countries to live in for pedophiles today. Let’s hope they’ll not export the victim-hood culture and other bullshit everywhere.

HappyHumpingPup

>The suppression of youth can only be stopped by destroying the myth of innocence. When some brave young man will say in front of cameras at an international event something like this :

The decades ongoing all negative ANGLO neo-Victorian narrative might change.

If rare mainstream scenes like this from ANGLO Hollywood ‘Butterfield 8’ (1960) ARE COMMON and REALISTICALLY POSITIVE THROUGHOUT. Not artificially turned-negative just to appease ANGLO neo-Victorian so called ‘norms’.

“She recounts that when she was 13 (11 in the 1935 fact-based original novel), a friend of her widowed mother, Major Hartley, taught her about “evil”. She hates herself BECAUSE SHE LOVED IT…”

E.G. ANGLO UK TV top soap ‘Coronation Street’: “Sorry I’m late home for tea Mum. I was at my friend’s house again. Her Mum let’s us watch WILD Kiddie Porn from 1970s Holland where the giggling kids can’t get enough. And then I FUCK my friend’s HOT Dad – I LOVE IT!!” (Meanwhile, MAPS/AAMS dream on….)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Starr_Faithfull

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BUtterfield_8_(novel)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BUtterfield_8

From 01m:20s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izklyHQ3784

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
Marco Antonio

Prohibitions run faster than regulations. There is a movement of parents in Spain not to give smartphones to their under 16 year old children. I understand the concerns about the group pressure addressed in the studies. I don’t oppose banning the phone at school (although we should ban the personal phone at work for adults as well, otherwise we are hypocritical…). Having schedules and time limits about phone use is also a good idea, especially if the phone use is supervised. But my point is: A total ban on the use of phones does not do any favour to teenagers, as they lose an excellent opportunity to learn how to use the phone well. Banning the phone until 16 years old is just posponing the problem, rather than tackling it.

matt

School is forced incarcearation for kids/ nothing useful is learned after well, here in uk, infant school. unless they change the curriculum drastically.

Marco Antonio

At school I learnt how to write and communicate effectively. In several languages. Which has been useful to… write this comment. I also learnt about History, which helped me understand the current politics a little better. And by the way, I was taught that pedophilia was fairly common in the antient Greece. I learnt Maths, which has been useful in my career, and was my preferred course. Last but not least, the Philosophy course gave me the foundation of rational thinking and criticism (sadly, now Philosophy is out of the mandatory curriculum).

HappyHumpingPup

Circa 90% beyond Anglo neo-Victorian control, the 3-decades ongoing World WILD Web IS the re-Wild West.

Where non-Anglo Free Range AAMS range free to play and say, “Show us yer BIG Dick Mister MAP, and BIG Tits Missus MAP!!”

Last edited 3 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
matt

no different to me at 16 on playstation all the time. i should have got laid… and cos i didnt get laid at 16, i want to go with 16 year old to make up for it… but of course, i would be greatly bullied….also i wonder how many suicides have been linked to the prosecution of teens for sexting? quite a few i imagine. great protection, you morons

Dorlexa

Wonderful to see such a thoughtful overview and tribute to your friend Peter!

Warbling J Turpitude

Thankyou for a stimulating blog entry Tom, on a matter that never fails to be any less than vexatious. Some days, glumly surveying the rows (and rows and rows) of phone-fixated eyes displaying not the slightest curiosity towards the world about them – which after all (sob), comprises just more transfixed phone-ys like themselves – terms like ‘rewilding’ occur to me, also. Is the term not swiped from UK projects to return certain areas to some sort of ‘state of nature’?

But my question here concerns this Mr Herman, if you please. Do you know if Bronx Sci was also the institution where he himself did high school? I ask because from the chronological info you provide i think his classmate must have been the founder of generative anthropology, aka ‘the little bang theory’ of the origin of language, whose Chronicles of Love & Resentment quite often refer to the school. Predictably enough, Professor Eric Gans does not even appear in the Wikipedia “list of notable Bronx Sci alumni” In the ever-ongoing pursuit of ‘rapprochements’ i thought my somewhat nervous correspondence with EG might get a novel ‘boost’ by way of wild ‘swing-bridge’ slung between NAMBLA and the world’s one and only rigorous/parsimonious theory of language origin? 

Last edited 3 months ago by Warbling J Turpitude
Warbling J Turpitude

I think it worthy of much reflection. Tom – the reality that there are precisely two taboos undergirding the social in all its parts and manifestations throughout the west – the taboo against any violation of “childhood innocence’, and the taboo against taking the question of language/human origin seriously – that taboo being inextricably bound up with the “Judenfrage” or the whole question of the origin of anti-Semitism, which even Jews themselves do not feel intellectually free to investigate

HappyHumpingPup

No surprise no reference to the World’s vast majority non-Anglo adolescent ‘anxieties’.

Or, as ever, are there few non-Anglo anxieties until the anxiety obsessed (for profit) post-Reformation psychopathic Anglos invade? History’s worst, always perversely posing as World best.

Quote, True American Natives invaded, lied to, slaughtered by psychopath Anglos, from mega millions in the 1700s down to 90k by 1900, “The Anglo invaders break treaty after treaty after treaty – their word is GARBAGE!”

Last edited 3 months ago by HappyHumpingPup
Lucius Cantor

Thank you for this obit, biography, and superb look into our history.

Peter Melzer was clearly a courageous person, and we could do with more like him, cantankerous personality and all. I’m sure I’d have wanted to hit him.

Fear is one of the biggest impediments “invisible” minorities such as us face to advancing our cause. The immediate cost of giving up our invisibility can be (but is not always) immense. But our lack of visibility holds us back as a cause, compounded by our lack of numbers. People like Peter Melzer (and you, Tom), who operate in daylight probably do more for us than the rest of us invisibles put together. I often think that perhaps the most effective thing we can do is give each other the courage to step into the light. And maybe give each other the material support that may require as well.

Thank you for the article.