At last, the paedophile as hero!

The paedophile as hero (well, a basically decent guy at least) isn’t exactly an overworked figure in contemporary commercial fiction, so when one turns up who is kind, wise, witty and moral, and even so handsome and athletic that women fall hopelessly (in every sense) in love with him, it is time to pay attention. Heretic TOC’s guest blogger today, “Dissident”, has done just that, by reviewing Pedal, last year’s debut novel by Canadian writer Chelsea Rooney (Caitlin Press, 2014). Dissident is a freelance editor and professional website administrator who also earns part of his living writing fiction, with a substantial body of published work to his name in several genres, including sci-fi. He is a long-time hebephile activist who has been prominent in GL circles for some 15 years. He has contributed essays on MAP-relevant topics to Newgon wiki and he posts to GirlChat, where he is a moderator. He has also participated regularly at Visions of Alice, Lifeline and here at Heretic TOC.

PEDO TO THE METAL

I’m pleased to say that Chelsea Rooney can well be considered one of an emerging band of writers who have an interest in actually getting to the truth of pedophilia (and its cousin sexual preferences, hebephilia and nepiophilia, both of which get token mention in this novel).
She is concerned neither with popular propaganda nor with looking politically “acceptable” to her fellow progressives and feminists; and she sure as hell isn’t looking to garner approval from the likes of Oprah Winfrey or her trashy imitators. She is simply interested in the truth, which she commendably values above popularity, especially of the kind that springs from ignorance, hatred, and willful lack of understanding.
That being made clear, Pedal can be difficult reading at times, depending on the reader’s stylistic preferences and where their extra-pedophilic interests may lie. Like many brilliant and well-read authors, Rooney is heavy on the vocab and may be thought pedantic. I’m a writer myself, and I found my own lexicon and general knowledge enhanced. The reader will learn more about bike maintenance, Canada’s roads and often spectacular scenery, stellar cartography, botany, and even haute couture than they may have been prepared for. You will also learn what radon daughters are, and the cool metaphorical use Rooney makes of them.
Rooney’s characters are complex, and their lives outside of protagonist Julia Hoop’s therapeutic and sociological interest in adult attraction to minors are probed in great detail. Thus these people feel real, including Smirks, the pedophile. The narrative also wanders “off topic” a fair bit, making it a mixed bag for those focused narrowly on pedophilia over general human drama and interplay, but Rooney clearly put a lot into this tale. Her characters are fully realized human beings – except for a trio of sketchily presented Nordic youths (or are they just children?) whose menacing presence briefly threatens Julia and Smirks for reasons that remain deeply enigmatic.
Julia is a so-called “survivor.” However, she has spotted something that a number of researchers have begun to notice among “victims” of sexual contact with adults as minors: she had not felt traumatized by the contact she had with her father, a drunkard and wannabe poet who fled his family many years prior to the main body of the story. Julia cycles across Canada to track down the fugitive referred to universally among family and friends as “Dirtbag” and confront him with what went on between them in her childhood. She wants closure, to make sense of her confused feelings. The journey is also intended as one of self-understanding and growth as a person.
Julia doesn’t feel traumatized by Dirtbag, despite the contemptuous label he is tagged with, but is made to feel shameful and guilty thanks to a now pervasive but erroneous belief. This “conventional wisdom” insists that every child who has such contact with an adult must be traumatized, because that’s just what happens when such contact occurs, be it consensual or not.
This leads Julia into conducting interviews for her thesis with women who had sexual contact with adults as children who believe they are “survivors” of molestation despite not reporting any trauma. As a feminist of the empowerment variety – the genuine feminists, as far as I’m concerned – Julia perceives the trauma matter to be dubious in many ways. She doesn’t find the idea of being emotionally damaged for life and relentlessly venting about it by lashing out at others as in any way empowering.
Her research and strong convictions about her inherent strength as a woman make her skeptical of therapists who encourage women to remain perpetual victims. She sees this as a condescending form of complicity with an agenda that has nothing to do with helping people heal from genuine abuse, or with making sense out of sexual encounters in which the child was a willing participant. She has strong reservations about being told by therapists, or society at large, how she should feel about certain experiences, rather than how she actually feels about it.
Julia perhaps served as a literary avatar for Rooney herself, as is common in fiction. She acknowledged the help of “My early correspondent, Krissy Darch, whose letters I have saved in my inbox in a folder called Fuck Trauma, and whose questions inspired the research that led to Pedal” (p. 239).
However, the informed reader will see Dirtbag as more likely a situational molester than a pedophile. What we hear of him suggests he made advances on his daughter for reasons other than preferential attraction to minors. The failure of his ambition to become a significant writer is implicated, along with associated alcoholic binges. He was very physically and emotionally abusive to Julia’s mom, and this seems again more indicative of a drunkard than a typical pedophile. This misstep of Rooney’s can largely be forgiven, though, because elsewhere in the book she struggles harder than most other progressives of the past two decades to understand pedophiles as human beings, and to make sense of pedophilia with an objective and compassionate eye.
This leads us to featured pedophile character Smirks. He is no activist, but does attend an MAA meeting in Vancouver in the hope of gaining a better understanding of himself. And, yes, Rooney does use the value-neutral, untainted term MAA (Minor Attracted Adult) to cover all forms of adult attraction to minors. This expression and its accompanying acronym are often used interchangeably with MAP (Minor Attracted Person) in the contemporary lexicon. The latter is more inclusive, taking in minor-attracted adolescents, but I’ll stick with Rooney’s language here.
Like the infamous Humbert Humbert, Smirks is no role model for MAAs. Unlike his literary hebephile predecessor as penned by Nabokov, he is far more restrained, and his life and interests are shown to encompass much more than his preferential attraction to children – girls, in his case, which is a refreshing change from the usual disproportionate attention given to boy-attracted MAAs over the past few decades, in both literature and research.
Smirks is a quirky but basically caring soul seeking his way through life while secretly dealing with his pedophilia. He is never revealed to have crossed the legal line, making him more sympathetic to a broad modern audience as a result. We learn that a ten-year-old girl named Maria was once part of his life, but never does Rooney treat Smirks as a mindless creature of lust. His ability to feel love for other human beings is made clear, and this includes his once-upon-a-time little sweetheart. His flaws are also laid bare, in a fully three-dimensional depiction. Never does Rooney make the common liberal mistake of attempting to canonize an oppressed minority in seeking its emancipation.
Significantly, women fall for Smirks, who is a ruggedly handsome 30-something, articulate, soft-spoken and a writer. But he isn’t sexually attracted to women. So what to do? Actual romantic involvement with an adult at least offers something beyond illicit fantasies, however unsatisfactorily. Rooney confronts this dilemma: Smirk’s sexual services are commandeered, shall we say, by Julia’s best friend, Lark, a fast-moving fashionista.
It is through Lark, indeed, that Julia meets Smirks. Julia, the 25-year-old psychology graduate student is instantly smitten, but she has no idea he is a MAA. When she poses as a female hebephile to gain entrance to the MAA lecture in Vancouver, she runs into Smirks there, and the truth of his actual preferences is laid bare to her in this rather awkward fashion.
In this meeting, we get a look into the famed European MAA organization IPCE, and its policies and mission statement are laid out. Rooney clearly did her research, and she represents the org fairly, with no concession whatever to popular hostility.
Wanting to keep Smirks close, Julia invites him to join her trek across Canada to locate Dirtbag. Quickly growing to love Julia in platonic fashion, and wanting her company and support, he agrees to the trip to provide her with the same. Along the way, she grows to know him better, and gains a first-hand view into the mind and feelings of an artistic pedophile who is struggling to make sense of his place in a society which hates the very idea of his natural feelings. He too has read much of the available literature, but being a newcomer to the organized MAA community – who meet mainly online – he has yet to fully scrutinize and critique the “scientific” research, much of which is not as scientific as one would wish. Among the books Julia mentions, I should add, is Tom O’Carroll’s Paedophilia: The Radical Case.
Some of the more distressing literature that Smirks reads includes the contention that pedophilia is a brain disorder, described by him in this manner:

“It’s a dysfunction. The white matter in my brain is screwy. I don’t have enough of it. Grey matter does the thinking, the information processing. White matter controls the signals between the information, their connections. When you look at a child, your white matter connects the child to a nonsexual being, and sends a signal of nurture. Love. Care. My white matter signals sex. Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation. It’s a birth defect.” (pp. 155-156).

Smirks makes it quite clear what pedophiles who have not fully self-actualized often have to deal with when reading pseudo-science of this nature. The fact that Smirks is left-handed makes him buy into this all the more, considering what researcher James Cantor and his ilk have concluded about left-handedness being particularly prevalent in MAAs.
Not addressed by Smirks is what all of this means for non-MAA adults who do not feel that strong nurturing complex towards children. Do they, too, suffer from a lack of sufficient white matter in their neural make-up? And what about the very clear nurturing feelings towards children that many typical pedophiles have alongside the sexual component of the attraction? Does that signify some sort of brain abnormality? Artistic works throughout human history seem to contradict the notion that “normal” human adult brains are somehow biologically hard-wired to view children as asexual beings. This reeks of culture and a very recent brand of moralism imposed upon scientific research.
But the emotional turmoil that MAAs like Smirks have to deal with due to all of this specious literature posing as objective science causes them to buy into this on many levels. Sadly, some MAAs view degrees of self-hatred or at least condemnation of their natural feelings as a form of catharsis or absolution for their transgression against contemporary cultural propriety.
Rooney attempts to convey the belief that despite her strong sympathy for pedophiles (and MAAs in general) as human beings who are not inherently defective, and even her questioning of common perceptions of childhood “innocence,” there are no easy answers for this conundrum. It’s obvious that Rooney was struggling with these issues as she wrote the book, though I must commend her for doing so in a manner that more or less chose neutral ambiguity over that of “regretful” condemnation.
So do I recommend this book to all who are interested in the subject, including the MAA community itself? Yes, I certainly do. Chelsea Rooney is a courageous woman with a genuine interest in understanding pedophilia that does not rest on a simplistic abuse prevention agenda. She may very well have come close to doing for pedophilia and child sexuality in the realm of fiction what Judith Levine did a decade previous as a non-fiction writer. Even those who cannot fully agree with this conclusion may however concede that she has taken a step in the right direction.

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[…] Prolific Heretic TOC contributor Dissident steps up from the Comments column today to the top of the page, with Part 1 of a two-part guest blog on the related topics of state security, fear-mongering and the Dark Net. His piece was submitted on the eve of the Paris terrorist attacks. Although these awful events thus go unmentioned, there is no need to be deflected by them. Dissident’s piece is about baseless, irrational fears, rather than entirely well-founded ones about jihadist fanatics. For more about Dissident, who has a substantial body of published work to his name, see my introduction to his guest blog in January this year, At last, the paedophile as hero! […]

beyourselfunless

This is wonderful news to hear, I will have to look out for this book

[…] At last, the paedophile as hero! […]

A.

Has anyone read Michael Lowenthal’s 2002 novel Avoidance? It’s about Jeremy Stull, a twenty-eight-year-old graduate student whose father died when he was eight but who found male companionship and mentoring at Ironwood, a summer camp for boys 10-15. Now Jeremy spends term-time writing a thesis on the Amish and the summers as a counsellor at Ironwood. He’s had sex with three or four women and one man, but mostly doesn’t take much interest. He’s also had a series of friendships with boys, including a thirteen-year-old Amish kid. Ironwood, with its “swarm of devoted, clinging boys” is the central part of Jeremy’s life, and it’s where he met his two best friends: Charlie, whom he’s known since they were eleven and who’s now the camp director, and more recently Caroline, the camp nurse. Then Max, an attitudinal, flirty fourteen-year-old with a troubled past, comes to Ironwood, and Jeremy is forced to face up the sexual nature of his attraction to this boy and to other boys in the past. The two become close, with Max hugging Jeremy and even giving him a Valentine, but Jeremy’s thrown into a tailspin when a tearful Max says that Charlie molested him. He has to figure out whether he should call the police on Charlie, and he has to remember that when he was fourteen, he very much wanted to have sex with fifty-something Ruff, then the camp director — but Ruff picked Charlie instead.
It’s a pretty good book, and while Lowenthal does seem to believe in the discredited abused-abuser hypothesis, he is at least prepared to admit that it is possible for a fourteen-year-old to want and to consent to sex with an adult.

Linca

Chelsea Rooney sounds like someone we are going to get to know, someone we will spend time understanding. “Pedal” Kindel Edition is just $6.99 US on Amazon dot com.
Thank you Dissident and Tom.
Linca

Linca

When I tried to purchase a message came up “This title is not available for purchase”.
Linca

Dissident

At this point in time, it’s best to purchase the book directly from Caitlin Press’ website. They do not yet offer a digital version, however.

Linca

Thank you Dissident. When my book buying budget recovers I will purchase it: http://caitlin-press.com/our-books/pedal/
I am opening up a discussion with a young man who thinks he was hurt because of a relationship he had with a man when he was a boy. Maybe I can help him understand that their behavior then was exactly in accord with who we are: Human Primates. This is how we behave. It came about in the hundreds of thousands of years we were becoming humans, i.e., going on overnight hunting and gathering excursions in mixed age groups. We are gentle, loving, egalitarian primates who got all off track after the invention of agriculture not that many years ago, when you consider how long we were getting along just fine before that.
Maybe this young man can put behind him the cultural conditioning that is causing him nightmares.
We need to be educating, educating, educating: I Think!
Love and Peace,
Linca

A.

Thanks very much for this review, Dissident. Sounds like a fascinating book.
I’ve noticed a tendency in GL-themed — but not BL-themed — literature for the man in question to be presented as not quite all there in some way, as an ostensible explanation for why he might be seeking out young girls’ company. In the book and film Les Dimanches de Ville-d’Avray (Sundays and Cybèle) the man is suffering from amnesia following a head injury; in Piccole labbra (Little Lips), he has had his genitals shot away in the First World War, and is shown in flashback scenes to have been sexually active with adult women before then; in La drôlesse (The Hussy), which to be fair is based on a true story, he has some unexplained kind of mild mental problem; in Beau-père, he’s presented as a bit of a sad sack generally: he’s a second-rate pianist with not much of a career, about to turn thirty, and his partner’s just been killed. It sounds like this — along with e.g. Mein Erstes Wunder — is a welcome exception, white matter quote notwithstanding.

A.

Oh yes, and Dreamchild, a fictionalised account of Charles Dodgson’s love for Alice Liddell: Dodgson is presented in the film as more socially inhibited than he probably was in reality, and older than he actually was at the time of his friendship with Alice.

kate

Thanks for the recommendation.
Some people here might be amused by a study published in the December issue of the Journal of Child Sexual Abuse. The authors interviewed 22 “statutory rape victims” (aged 12-15 at the time of the offense) one or two years after their relationships had been disclosed. In the words of the abstract, “Some youths described the relationships in exploitive terms. However, more typically, the interviewed youth described the relationship as reciprocal, even some time after it had ended. The professional intervention often resulted in feelings of helplessness for the youth.” Some of the relationships only involved a small age difference, but there is also, e.g., a 14-year-old (presumably 13 during the relationship) who defended her relationship with a 38-year-old. The authors remain on the victimological side and recommend more “creative” legal intervention.
Full text: http://a.pomf.se/rahoxh.pdf

Dissident

The authors remain on the victimological side and recommend more “creative” legal intervention.
In other words, they refuse to listen to what these young people have to say if they do not say what they want to hear. These “abuse victims” appear to be treated as victims by default, or “status victims.” The seem to operate from a medieval mode of thinking, imposing their cultural beliefs upon any bit of data they receive that doesn’t correlate with consensus opinion. I wonder if their suggestion for more “creative” types of intervention are code words for more aggressive or subtle forms of brainwashing.

Jack Summer

It’s amazing how they point blank admit that they are refusing to integrate new evidence that is in opposition to their deeply held beliefs and no one, except those like us, call them out on it.
And yes I do feel when they say “recommend more “creative” legal intervention” they are implying a more brainwashing type intervention. With the internet and free access to information it is easier for kids to make up their own view on their life and interactions with others in contrast to what the authoritarian adults around them say.
Things will change.

sugarboy

Did you expect more than cognitive distortions from a publication called “Journal of Child Sexual Abuse”?

A.

A very interesting read. Thank you.

ethane72

They said that some of the minors who thought their relationships had been OK a year later might be harmed later, but they implied this would very often not be the case. They mention the possibility of restorative justice, which as I understand it is in place of usual legal penalties, not in addition. They allow for the idea that such a discussion between the members of the couple would be about why the relationship had to end, not about why it was a terrible thing. They mention that the purpose of the laws is to deter exploitation, but don’t say that all such relationships are in fact exploitative, nor that all such relationships need to be prosecuted. No, they weren’t demanding that the system respect the sexual autonomy of young teens, but I think they were suggesting small, progressive changes and not ruling out more extensive change.

A.

Thinking about this some more… In our broad culture, it is generally not a good idea for girls of thirteen or fourteen to be having babies. And if they live in the US, and if on top of that they have arguable social disadvantages such as being black and only having one parent around, it’s going to be a particularly hard row for them to hoe. And what the article says is quite correct: teenaged girls in age-gap relationships are more likely to fall pregnant than those in relationships with coevals, though there are a lot of confounds there, because teenaged girls who are, for instance, poor, are more likely to end up in age-gap relationships and also, independently, more likely to end up pregnant.
But there are good and bad ways of dealing with such situations. I have a policy of not linking to Scarleteen here, because you never know what people are going to make trouble over, but I encourage everyone to read the article ‘I’m 14 and Want a Baby. Is that Weird or Slutty?’ (just search the title). I think it does a stellar job of dealing with the issue in a calm, respectful, straight-shooting manner.

Dissident

Actually, A, I don’t think the belief that girls in age disparate relationships are more likely to get pregnant has any great basis in fact. I remember having that discussion with Heather Corinna of Scarletteen (we were once good friends before she cut off all contact with the MAP community), and she pointed out stats on SIECUS and Planned Parenthood that only one out of five teen girls who become pregnant do so by an older partner. And these older partners tend to be in the age range of 18-21, not significantly older. As Heather told me personally: “Seriously, how many 40-year-old men in the U.S. are stupid enough to knock up a teen?” In fact the Allan Guttmacher Institute made it clear that the great majority of older partners for teen girls were “3-6 years older.”
The Alan Guttmacher Institute (AGI), Sex and America’s Teenagers, New York, 1994, pp. 19 & 22.
D.J. Landry and J.D. Forrest, 1995, op. cit. (see reference 1); and M. Males and K.S.Y. Chew, 1993, op. cit. (see reference 1).
Let’s keep in mind, too, that youth liberationist Mike Males came to deeply regret pushing this attitude during the 1990s, because that resulted much stronger restrictions on the rights of teen girls in his home state of California, not less! He admitted this error on his part to Judith Levine, which was cited in the footnotes of her book HARMFUL TO MINORS.
This belief makes no logical sense, and I don’t believe it’s backed up by any real data. I think it’s been promoted so strongly to try and color older men who do form relationships with younger girls as being considerably less responsible with her and considerate of her needs than a peer would be, thus justifying all the usual attitudes. This is why I contend that this common belief does not hold water upon close scrutiny.
Not only that, but this attitude has also been used to justify greater restrictions of the freedoms of girls than boys, thus using the fact that the former have a womb against them.

A.

I don’t think we’re in disagreement. 🙂 Those relationships, the ones where the older party is only 3-6 years older, are the ones I was referring to. They count as age-disparate for Guttmacher et al., they make up the majority of the cases in Kate’s link, and a few years often do make a big difference at that age, though of course individual maturation rates vary widely. And while most teenage girls who become pregnant probably (though I have seen stats claiming otherwise) do not become pregnant by boys even a few years older, teenage girls involved in relationships with boys a few years older are, according to what I have read, *disproportionately* likely to become pregnant. But this is not something that can be laid at the door of MAP men: the age difference is so small that most of the older boys involved are surely not budding preferential hebephiles. And, as I say, there are a lot of confounds.
Then, of course, there is teenage pregnancy and teenage pregnancy: there’s the girl who becomes accidentally pregnant at seventeen or eighteen, decides it was a happy accident and wants to raise a child, and then there’s the girl who becomes accidentally pregnant at thirteen and is completely horrified. We should recognise that and not act as though all very young mothers have messed up irrevocably and doomed their children to failure– and we should also make the morning-after pill available over the counter to under-seventeens in the US, for heaven’s sake.
This article by Patricia Donovan is rising twenty years old but still stands as an effective counterblast to the idea that statutory rape laws are any help in this department: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/2903097.html

Dissident

Understood, and thank you for clarifying all of this, A. I apologize if I interpreted any stance of yours wrong, or even any stance of someone else that you tried to explain.
In our culture, the “Magic Age” demarcation of 18 bears an incredible degree of divine weight. To the point, in fact, where Western and Northern culture has developed the mindset that it’s more than “just a number” and actually has some type of objective significance. Hence, even a few years age difference can make a big difference if the two partners are on the opposite side of the “18” age divide. One will have most of their adult legal rights (still no beer for a few years!); the other will not. And with the heavy degree of cultural enforcement given to the rampant age segregation in our society, even then someone who is 16-17, and someone who is 19-20, can seem to be denizens of two entirely different worlds that are strictly separate and in no way equal.

A.

No problem. Not your fault: I’m the one who keeps banging on about this particular subject. I have a bee in my bonnet about it because I spend long periods in an area where abortion is illegal under all circumstances and Cytotec is very hard to get and consequently the place is full of fourteen-year-olds poisoning themselves with agricultural pesticides. Kind of a hard thing to get out of your mind.
I definitely agree with you about age segregation.

James

Cool book. Must have (along with all the others….).
Dissident writes fiction!? Why am I only now learning of this? 😀
Is there any way you can link me to your work? Of course, if it’s under your real name, you may want to avoid this for the purposes of anonymity. If you can tell me but (for whatever reason) prefer email, I’m jasminerk@hushmail.com
BTW: The lack of paragraphs kind of threw me a little. Got lost a few times.

Jack Summer

I can only hope my book will be nearly as good. I like how she went about it. Thanks for the review Dissident and thanks for hosting it Tom. The more nons in favor of paedosexuality the better. No minority succeeds without majority support sadly. Trying to get more of my fellow nons to support you is my main goal.

Dissident

Thank you for reading, and for your unwavering support for our community against public sentiment, Jack. I have no doubt your book will also be a very important work in this area, sailing progress further forward just as Rooney did.
The more nons in favor of paedosexuality the better. No minority succeeds without majority support sadly. Trying to get more of my fellow nons to support you is my main goal.
Agreed, and I’m very glad you mentioned this, Jack. I have met too many angry pro-choice MAAs who have written off the Nons due to their anger getting out of control, with the result being that they become devoted to a dangerous, unrealistic fantasy that the MAA community is going to somehow gain sufficient political power entirely on its own to demand full civil rights for ourselves and youths… which the intimidated majority will then have no choice but to give us. And all virtually overnight!
This is very naive and counterproductive, to say the least, and on more than one level. As you noted, and as the late Prof. Harris Mirkin prominently noted in his great essay a decade and a half ago, no oppressed minority group who eventually won emancipation did so entirely on their own. All of them had to make a case with the majority group in society, convince a significant portion of that majority that their case was legitimately debatable, and then have that portion of the majority take up their case and help them demand the necessary changes. And these changes, even with the aid of a portion of the majority, always occurred in a series of steps, not akin to a one lump sum payment.
On another level, letting our anger get out of hand and writing off the Nons is basically doing the same thing to them that they have done to us. It’s totally untrue that all Nons are incorrigible antis; many are on the fence, and there are some – like yourself, Jack – who have already fully abandoned loyalty to consensus thinking on the issues. They have simply been silent and “in the closet” with their opinions. If we want genuine respect and acceptance, then we have to earn it, not demand it. We have to be willing to give exactly what we want in return, and letting anger escalate into hatred makes us part of the problem, not the solution.

Jack Summer

At least one person at GC isn’t a big fan of me, but I understand the skepticism and anger. I just hope my book is written well enough. Last night I did a whole revision of what I wrote so far. Toned down the sexual awareness of the main little girl character a lot because it seemed to be too in your face the way I had written it and though realistic it would be less believable because of the moral argument the book is making. Even though she is based off little girl’s I’ve known in childhood and currently who are even more sexually aware. I am trying to balance between knowledge and ignorance. I don’t want her to come off as naive and “innocent” but I also don’t want her to come off as unrealistically informed and sexually aware.
I forgot which author and which book, but there was a consensual preteen gang bang in his book, but since it wasn’t arguing in favor of paedosexuality no one said much besides “gross”.
I can tell you many nons are open to at least listening to the pro-contact side if one presents it correctly. Which is what I am trying to do with my book.

mr pedo-man

Indeed. I was discussing the Jimmy Savile debacle, And questioned the unwillingness of all his ALLEGED victims(sic) And he just said(though under influence of alcohol) “I agree;If they can bleed,they can breed” Also other people who are considerably older,however; Talk of their past girlfriends,who in these days of hysteria,could risk them being sent down for statutory-rape!
P.S. TOC Did you see question time…Good old Dr David Starkey didn’t tow the party-line,when discussing the teacher pupal relationship in the News!

mr pedo-man

Think it was around the middle…and the end discussing the economy; That’s when I called it a night.He accused people in the 21st century of having a very Victorian attitude to youth sexuality….anyway I’ll let you see for yourself.He also made good points about free-speech,and that no religion should be free from ridicule and satire.

mr pedo-man

Yes that probation officer accused him of blurring the lines,regarding youth sexuality; He had a good answer though “the reality is different” from her victimological stance I guess he was referring too.
You said yourself once,that question time is hardly an attractive place to defend a subject such as paedophilia; And last night was a prime example.

holocaust21

Well all you need is for two people on question time to start defending it and then it becomes a legitimate viewpoint 😉
P.S. Tom can you not fix the nested comment super-small width bug? I think if you go to Settings->Discussion on left menu in wordpress admin panel and then reduce number of levels in “Enable threaded (nested) comments” section that should do it…

holocaust21

You can still just hit reply to the commentor at the previous indentation level. Like just now we’ve exceeded the number of levels but I still managed to reply to your post by clicking reply on my post and it then appears just below yours (as opposed to below and even further to the right). If you see what I mean?
It’s a bit rubbish I agree but maybe better than super small width. This explains the problem in more detail including a simple code fix you can make (but you need access to the code which isn’t available on the free wordpress, argh): http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2013/technology/allow-infinite-replies-with-wordpress-threaded-comments.html/
Anyway, just a thought, up to you 🙂

jedson303

Can you tell me about your book, Jack?

Jack Summer

Of course. Everything I describe is subject to change. In fact by the end of it all the story might be totally different.
It essentially will tell the story of a young man (twenties) who is attracted to young girls. He becomes smitten with a very independent and assertive nine year old who also crushes on him. It will be about his constant fighting within himself. How the girl and his interactions with her help him find self-acceptance. There will be some sexual interaction between them but not explicitly described and not penetrative. Chapters will alternate between the paedosexual’s view and the little girl’s view. Written in third person omniscient though I think I might switch to third person limited. Their relationship will be found out and the girl’s parents will at first seek prosecution but will eventually want to drop the charges because of the defense their daughter provides for the paedosexual. The state however will continue on with the charges against the paedosexual. I haven’t figured out how I want it to end. Happy? Sad? In the middle? I plan on having a friend of the little girl also be in a sexual situation, but she is actually being molested by an abusive guardian. With the help on the good paedosexual and the little girl he loves they save her, but in the process get themselves found out. This is to contrast abuse vs consent and also to show how selfless paedosexuals can be for children.
I have about 50 or so pages written so far (about 25 if not double spaced).

jedson303

Sounds good. I’ll be interested in seeing it when it is finished.
j

James

I like! Bumping for interest. Hope you’ll let us know when it comes out 🙂

Jack Summer

I will of course. I have been doing a lot of research. As a non I can’t possible know exactly what it feels like to be in love with a little girl (or boy). Interacting with paedosexuals on GC and VoA has helped me tremendously. I do also assume that how I may feel about one of my adult partners is somewhat similar which is why I hope I get the relationship written well. One poster in particular at GC has helped me a lot, Rainbowloom, with his GMs. The girl herself has been easy to write. I am close with my young female cousins, I am a strong youth rights supporter so they act genuine with me so I get the real deal. I also was a sexual child myself and sexual with other children including girls, so I have an understanding of what kids, and more specifically girls, think when being sexual.

James

OK. Good to know you have the teleiophile side wrapped up. I would’ve offered to give you my thoughts but, then again, I haven’t been a successful teleiophile until quite recently and you’re not writing a teen :/

Phil

Thanks for this, Tom (and Dissident). It sounds likely a truly deep and fascinating book on the subject, dealing with many of the important angles. As a hetero, it’s interesting to see attraction to girls being the focus. Also, the ‘shades of age’ being dealt with thoughtfully, from true paedophilia (the current climate of ignorance as it is, I always feel the need to add that tag, ie ‘under pubescence’) through hebephilia and ephebephilia – and what the hell is nepiophilia?! I’ll look that one up. It’s edifying to see a definition of ‘feminist’ (a hobbyhorse of mine): perhaps not something to be feared and loathed after all, so long as they’re a ‘true’ feminist!
Whilst the extraneous material in it may be wearing on those who want to get to the ‘meat’ of the matter (no pun intended), I suspect this will enhance the book. I don’t believe you can speak very meaningfully of minor-attraction without context, be it cultural, religious or the life-events, hobbies and career of a particular person. This phrase resonates with me (in the sense I think it is bullshit, and it’s clear to see why it would disturb Smirks):
“Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation. It’s a birth defect.” I see myself as one who was not a MAP in my youth, or young adulthood, but a ‘normal kid’ (sexually at least) craving girls of my own age. Yet now, at 46, half of my libido is taken up by a very strong attraction indeed to minors 7ish and above (unacted upon, I must stress). I see my MAPness as having emerged steadily from a disastrous adolescence, failing to figure out the opposite sex, and never getting anything like the satisfying experiences I would wish from them thereafter. If I have a ‘defect’, it’s a trace of autism, which caused said difficulties. In hindsight, perhaps I did feel some ‘sparks’ of attraction to prepubescent in my teen years, but if this was independent from my flawed development, then I view it as a part of human nature that is natural, not a ‘defect’. I celebrate my MAPness, the oppressiveness of having to be a ‘good citizen’ notwithstanding.
Consequently, this resonates with bullshit too:
“Some MAAs view degrees of self-hatred or at least condemnation of their natural feelings as a form of catharsis or absolution for their transgression against contemporary cultural propriety.” Not bullshit in that the observation is incorrect, but that such MAAs should be browbeaten to feel that way. I hope I never do fall foul of the law, for I’d have a horrible time with a rehabilitation therapist (she’d kill me or I’d kill her!).
The talk of the ‘wiring of the brain’ is intriguing. I’m sceptical of the part white or grey matter plays in it, but confess I have not researched that. This cuts to the heart of the issue: “the very clear nurturing feelings towards children that many typical pedophiles have alongside the sexual component of the attraction”. Both are natural, imo, and this is precisely where ‘wires cross’ (from at normal adult’s perspective). I see much of myself in Smirks, though if he’s a woman-magnet I can see I will get very exasperated with him if he does not reap the fruits of that!) and that which is outside my experience, such as Julia’s father’s alcoholism, and incestuous interaction, will only make it a more enlightening read.
Thanks again for sharing this. A book that certainly needs to be written. If it projects a neutral ambiguity, then it seems that is the author’s integrity speaking, and it’s probably honest towards the human condition (clearly not all people OR paedophiles are good). That will be enough to inflame the abuse brigade, though, I suspect.

Dissident

Thank you for reading the review and for your positive response to it, Phil! And you’re quite welcome!
For the record, nepiophilia is the rarest – and certainly most controversial – sub-category of the MAA attraction base: adults (and probably adolescents too) who have a sexual preference for infants and very young children, i.e., toddlers. The academic community have just begun recognizing and distinguishing it, though they tend to eschew nepiophilia – a term formulated and often used by at least the GL segment of the MAA community – in favor of more simplistic, non-Greek nomenclature like “infantophilia.”
The talk of the ‘wiring of the brain’ is intriguing. I’m sceptical of the part white or grey matter plays in it, but confess I have not researched that. This cuts to the heart of the issue: “the very clear nurturing feelings towards children that many typical pedophiles have alongside the sexual component of the attraction”. Both are natural, imo, and this is precisely where ‘wires cross’ (from at normal adult’s perspective). I see much of myself in Smirks, though if he’s a woman-magnet I can see I will get very exasperated with him if he does not reap the fruits of that!)
This is an aspect of Smirks I cannot readily relate to, as unlike him, I’m not conventionally attractive, just a “plain John” (male equivalent of the “plain Jane”) despite looking quite young for my age (I’m 40-something), and thus not a woman magnet. Interestingly, however, one part of the novel explores Smirks attempting to capitalize on his attractiveness to adult women by experimenting with Lark, including having her pretend to be a little girl. This hit on a point that I elaborated upon a bit in the first draft of my review, but which had to be cut for reasons of space (I tend to make my blogs much too long!): The ethics regarding sexual interaction between MAAs and adults who are attracted to them. I will likely turn those necessarily excised portions of my review into a separate mini-article on GirlChat, and I’ll link it here once I do.
A book that certainly needs to be written. If it projects a neutral ambiguity, then it seems that is the author’s integrity speaking, and it’s probably honest towards the human condition (clearly not all people OR paedophiles are good).
As noted in my review, I do greatly appreciate the fact that Rooney took the “I don’t have all the answers” conclusion instead of the much more typical and politically “safe” conclusion by liberal/progressive researchers that goes something like this: “I admit the issues of pedophilia may be a bit more complex than society is willing to admit, but I think it would be greatly premature at this point to even consider any type of changes in policy or the way we deal with it…” To her credit, Rooney didn’t take the easy way out, and never showed an interest in pandering to public sensibilities even as she struggled with the issues herself. She does need to do more research on the subject, as she has apparently not yet even learned of the youth liberation platform, but what she has done at this point in her research is commendable IMO.
That will be enough to inflame the abuse brigade, though, I suspect.
Yes it will, unfortunately. Sadly, at this point in time, MAAs will always have any natural human flaws they may display used against the entire community. They are not allowed to be imperfect or to screw up, like members of other minority groups can. In this regard, being a MAP in this day and age is roughly equivalent to being black during the 1940s. Our individual failings as human beings are considered MAA failings rather than individual.

A.

In my casual observation nepiophilia is rather more prevalent among GLs than among BLs. I can’t think why that would be.
Nepiophilia needn’t be sp controversial once we realise that sexual desires directed towards very young children are often very mild and gentle in nature. I remember a post on BoyChat, I think it was, in which someone wrote that while he could “generate an appreciation” for boys 8-10, he was most attracted to boys 1-5; however, all he really wanted to do with boys this young was be around them and run his hands over their skin.

Ethanic

To kiss and caress all over, and make happy.
One version of pedo+nepiophilia (in my case, bisexual).

A.

Indeed! I wonder how much of the implacable opposition to paedophiles comes from the belief that they’re trying to impose adult sexuality on children. This (almost always) simply isn’t the case, and the younger the kid, the more this applies. For instance, one GL interviewed for Wilson and Cox’s The Child-Lovers wrote this to describe his fantasies about kids and how often he had them: “Mutual undressing, caressing, nude swimming; to be surrounded by several beautiful little girls. Constantly.” Another wrote, “…sometimes think of caressing and fondling a naked little blonde girl…perhaps daily or whenever I see one that attracts me. At other times think of having intercourse with an older girl, about 14 or 15.”

mr pedo-man

To kiss and caress all over, and make happy.
One version of pedo+nepiophilia (in my case, bisexual).
Is that not what most parents do anyway? Though namely;women in public, For a man to show too much affection to his own kids,In public at least,Is risky In this day-and-age! Also on holiday once,sipping tea beside the beach,watching people go by—Saw a older girl,groping the backside of a young boy,maybe her brother—One rule for females I think to myself.

A.

Yup, you’re right there.

jedson303

[TOC ADDS: This is meant to be a reply to Phil: the WordPress software seems a bit erratic in these matters.]
Thought your post was interesting. It is very difficult to explore these issues rationally and objectively in the current atmosphere of hysteria and fear. I find both similarities and differences in what you experienced in your development and what I experienced in mine. My attractions were a more or less even mixture of female peers and boys when I was in my teens. Since then it has moved more toward boys, with a sprinkling of other things, such as waterfalls and trees. I think that perhaps setting aside three common assumptions about sexual development and replacing them with alternate working hypotheses might clear the ground for more fruitful exploration. I have in mind, (1) that people fit into neat categories such as hebophiles, bisexuals, heterosexuals etc. etc. That could be replaced with the working hypothesis that each of us has his or her own bonding profile, which might include a variety of attractions, some of which might change over time. (2) That “normal” is a useful category. What about replacing it with helpful or harmful. The “white matter” hypothesis is, in my mind, dubious. But even should it turn out to have some validity, why understand that as an “abnormal” condition rather than a “normal” variation? (3) That our development is based either on “nature” or “nurture. In the development of most human psychological attributes we find an interaction of many factors.

The OSC

Don’t forget Jack …
We Bet The Church Will Not Be Very Broad
http://therealosc.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/we-bet-church-will-not-be-very-broad.html
The OSC

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