Towards an alliance of the invalidated

 Jim Burton, Strategic Lead for Newgon, guest blogs again today following his debut here last year.  This time he makes “a positive, pragmatic argument for an alliance of the invalidated”, using fraternity between MAPs and Zoophiles as an example.

MAPs, Zoophiles, and Transids

Validity discourse and the Alliance

In my previous essay for HTOC, I discussed how associations between different socially marginalised communities can sometimes spell harm for the groups concerned. I conceded that to most, it’s obvious individual Nazis can exist in any community without invoking the idea that every member of said community is themselves one. Within a western context, net harm would nevertheless come to sexually deviant communities if they were seen to form strategic alliances with fascist ideologies. I also documented my own experiences of being smeared as a Fascist, or enabler.

Another source of potential harm to sexual deviants, I argued, sadly comes from associations with other forms of sexual deviance. For example, greater visibility of Sadistic “Zoophiles” (Zoosadists) is more likely to further tarnish the public image of Zoophiles (Zoos) as a group, inspiring the passing of new laws[1] against all Zoosexual behaviour. Greater censorship of allegedly “Zoophilic” adjacent identities such as the Furry Fandom would also be likely. While non-practising Zoosadists should doubtless be applauded for their decisions, there is a reason why we hear so little about “Zoosadist Pride“, at least outside of a few highly questionable, and thankfully anti-contact online communities. The reason being, confirming harmful stereotypes of your own community makes very little sense as civil rights or identity discourse. At the same time, Zoos, Sadists and MAPs all exist in considerable numbers, and have a lot to gain from co-operating to overcome social invalidation – much of it arising from shared stigma. This leaves us with an ethical dilemma of sorts.

So, in this essay I will make a positive, pragmatic argument for an alliance of the invalidated, using the nascent online fraternity between MAPs and Zoos as my example. I should stress, this is not an attempt to exclude Paraphilias other than Zoophilia, but to make my argument clearer.

MAPs at present are in a situation similar to Zoos, with a few small differences. Both are stigmatised for their desires, which popular ignorance dictates are inseparable from “deviant” criminal actions linked to purported power imbalances. Both are also being distanced, or “pushed out” by larger adjacent groups, and are therefore haemorrhaging both demographically and in terms of credibility, to the benefit of those more socially acceptable identities. This makes it harder for MAPs and Zoos to reach critical mass alone; to get up-and-running as serious social/political movements.

Therian child? Or just a Furry one? Shape-shifting can be solely in the mind.

Imagine for example, how much easier it is for a Zoophile to identify as a Furry or a Therian – the latter being people, mainly children and teens, who morph (at least spiritually) into different species of animal. The numbers don’t lie in this regard – polls and studies have found some overlap between Zoophilia and the Furry Fandom, with the potential for significant support from Furries on Zoo civil rights issues.[2]

For MAPs on the other hand, those often hostile adjacent groups are taboo erotic fiction communities in general (principally Lolicons), and also on some level, Youth Liberationists. There are also numerous queers who might otherwise identify in some way as MAPs or AAMs; this includes Transids such as Transage people – some of whom it can be argued, suffer from similar stigmas.

All of these adjacent communities have their own somewhat understandable motivations for distancing Zoos and MAPs as the “real” sexual deviants, in a process social media users now sometimes refer to as validity discourse. It is common for such groups to use the adjective “invalid” to describe other less acceptable groups (such as MAPs in general, or pro-c Zoos in particular). This term, a Gen Z reworking of “sick” or “degenerate”, is obviously an attempt on the part of the larger socially marginal group to present itself as arbitrarily “valid”, i.e. clean, well-intentioned and harmless. It can be compared to assimilation strategy and respectability politics in the GLB Movement of the 1980s and 90s – something not alien to older MAPs.

How a Zoo-MAP+ alliance might work

While the communities I described as adjacent to Zoos and MAPs are not helping in any way right now, they could be considerable reservoirs for future recruitment. To take advantage of their adjacency to socially marginal groups, however, both Zoos and MAPs must have a game-plan, an agreed common cause and ultimately an alliance to form their own critical mass.

If, say 10% of Furries support Zoos and oppose all validity discourse, here we have a population Zoos must rally to action, and recruit from, in order to contribute their part to an alliance of the invalidated. The same goes for MAPs and their adjacent groups.

These allies will always be, to some extent, fair-weather friends. Consider, for example, the outright hostility and threat to life faced by out-MAPs. Now, compare this to the mixture of awkward bemusement and anti-woke posturing displayed by members of the public in response to Transids such as Transharmful, Transhateful, Transjudaism and Transabled/Wheelchairquior (their spelling). At best, we can at least say that all such groups are deviant. Many Transids appear to have considerable demographic overlap with aggressively invalidated identities such as Zoos and MAPs.

One would still have to query the compatibility of an across-the-board movement, especially if its activities were to be conducted “out in the open”. With Transabled Wheelchair Warriors and others already eager to burn along the avenues in Pride parades, would it not be necessary for MAPs to take a “back-seat” for their own safety? And how could this be done sensitively, in a way not ultimately deemed to be exclusionary towards MAPs?

Not only that, but how does our movement deal with hostile operatives such as “pro-c Biastophiles” – people who want to legalise rape, or use it as a political weapon? This, in sum, is why it looks like an online informational movement based upon simple facts countering social stigmas on the groups concerned might be the only way to go. In the early stages, I would at least argue for this approach as a “soft launch”. Searching for Zoophile or even broader Paraphilia Wikis and information resources, however, unfortunately proves two things. Firstly, Anglo Zoos have nothing that rivals Ipce or NewgonWiki, in terms of depth of information and frequency of contributions. Zetas (pro-choice/practising Zoos) have created one notable effort, and an informative blog site called[3] There is still nothing methodical such as a Newgon’s Debate Guide or a detailed anthology, with relatively little in the way of Zoo research literature existing.

Secondly, outside of the corporatised, hollowed out and exclusionary LGBT paradigm, there is no online resource properly catering to a full variety of the most socially invalidated sexual minorities, and uniting them under one mantra. MAPs have attempted this, creating pop-up sites such as and to supplement the existing core of paraphile social instances. Unfortunately, these are hardly ever edited, rarely read and therefore simply represent “cool ideas” their MAP owners once thought to be viable. They lack support from non-MAPs, and have no contingencies in place for content creation and maintenance.

Kids’ cosplay is often about superpower fantasies, not sexual ones, although power itself can be erotic. Furry psychology may likewise be relatively asexual but there is also an explicitly erotic adult culture (including attraction to childlike aliens, or animals), with a potential source of MAP alliance.

There are also some fundamental oversights to so-called “Radqueer” ideology in that it includes rather discretionary identities alongside the foundational gender and age-based sexual inclinations. For example is Transrace going to inspire nature-nurture debates mirroring those for homosexuality, or paedophilia? There is of course nothing wrong with covering this esoteric ground alongside sexuality, but we should not, in pained attempts to be “cool” and “valid”, pretend all such things are of equal substance or urgency.

So, we need to be clear as to the something our alliance is based upon. For me, that something can only be shared social invalidation, or relative “queerness” if you like. Accounting for the size of particular demographics, this forces us to focus more on groups such as Zoos, Young People, Transgender People and even the Men’s Movement. More so than our wheelchair-fluid friends, or Transgrassallergy sufferers, at least.

To this end, employment of the noun “invalid” has been suggested to civil rights organisers, as it makes clear that social invalidation is a fair-enough reason for anybody to be a member of the alliance, and that validity discourse itself is rejected. Identifying as “invalids” also makes clear that identities already considered “valid” or at least “marginally” so (e.g. novel Transids and fringe Paraphilia) will be considered less urgent priorities.

At the practical level, the new alliance’s rejection of validity discourse would mean the rejection of potential allies who engage in such discourse – many of them anti-c’s, although not exclusively so. In other words, to avoid setting itself up for factionalism and internal conflict, the movement would display an intolerance of the intolerant, as it set about finding its voice and purpose. Excluding the worst anti-c’s might be easier for pro-c Zoos. In many places Zoosexuality is legal, meaning anti-c Zoophiles are of little to no help at all – in fact, they are literal antis.

For MAPs, who arguably face even more stigma, anti-c alliances might be somewhat easier to maintain. In fact, under an alliance model, MAPs might even be forced to sacrifice extremist/abolitionist pro-c’s who cannot moderate their demands somewhat to aid the early development of this alliance. Abolition demands would most likely be considered an inappropriate distraction from the alliance’s primary goals of attacking stigma and reforming existing laws. For some Paraphiles, on the other hand (e.g. Biastophiles) it will often be the case that only anti-c, counter-stigma activism is possible without advocating harm.

Whoever takes on this challenge will need not only a set of principles (principle always trumps identity), but charismatic leadership. He/she or they will have to communicate effectively:

a) Not only who is in the alliance, and its purpose, but…

b) How, in the real world, the Alliance’s members must (due to their fundamental, and undeniable differences) be treated unequally to become civilly equal. Rape/Noncon fetishists vs Transgender for example.

Newgon’s Community Ambassador roles

On a related note, around a year ago, I created “Community Outreach Ambassador” roles at Newgon, hoping I could encourage collaboration with some of the adjacent groups mentioned in this essay.

Recently, I announced a blogger with whom some readers here may be familiar – as my first such appointment. Famous for his legal battles on freedom of expression, and often maliciously mischaracterised by the media, Eivind Berge has been a member of the PCMA server for a few years, and becomes Newgon’s Men’s Movement Community Outreach Ambassador.


  1. Ultimately, acts of extreme Zoo-“Masochism” it could be argued, have been partly or wholly responsible for some of the few laws passed against Zoosexuality and filming thereof in the US.
  2. See Tarro (2024) – 52.4% on, Furscience (2019) and Zidenberg and Olver (2001).
  3. For examples of relevant articles, see Opinions on the anti-contact Zoo, and Non-Zoo Voices.


Furry cute… and furry fierce. Potential MAP allies come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, identities and psychologies. We could all become prey to big, bad wolves if we do not choose our friends carefully, but there are plenty of well meaning “invalids” out there too.



A couple of years ago, former PIE Vice-Chair “Warren Middleton” (not his real name) expressed surprise that so many surviving members of our pioneering MAP organisation had remained friends for nearly half a century. “Having coming this far,” he said, “I suppose we’ll stick together to the end now, won’t we?”

About half a dozen of us (writes Tom O’Carroll) had met up for a convivial pub meal in London. We had all been either PIE committee members or otherwise engaged in radical activism back in the day. Warren, a smoker, was already frail and chronically unwell by this time with COPD. I knew that for him, at least, “the end” was probably quite close, and so it proved. It was cancer that finally did for him, last year. He would have been about 75.

I only found out recently, hence this delayed obituary. I knew he had friends who lived much closer to him than me (he was in Putney, London, I was 300 miles north) and that he was getting medical and social services support, so when his phone stopped working and a letter of mine went unanswered (Warren had never caught up with the internet), I thought I’d soon be hearing news about him from someone. But it never happened. Anyway, long story short, on a trip south a couple of months ago I took a bus to Putney, where, having no contact details for Warren’s local friends, I took to ringing the doorbells of neighbouring flats until I found convincing confirmation that he had passed away, as I of course suspected by that time.

The details of his death need not detain us, and nor will those of his early life, because I know little about it beyond my impression, having met his very hospitable parents at their comfortable home, that his background was modestly “well to do”. Likewise their son was “well spoken”, suggesting a private education. He may have been a London boy but there was no Cockney accent.

What concerns us more here, though, is his MAP activism. Warren was part of the scene before my arrival, being one of the earliest and ultimately longest-serving PIE committee members, serving from 1975-8 as Vice-Chair. His most publicly visible contribution in this role came through interviews with journals including Gay News and Time Out, plus the editorship under PIE auspices of a journal called Understanding Paedophilia. Ultimately, though, the writing for which he would be best known was his book The Betrayal of Youth (1986) which he edited and to which he contributed two chapters.

The Betrayal of Youth: Radical Perspectives on Child Sexuality, Intergenerational Sex, and the Social Oppression of Children and Young People, or BOY for short, had a significant impact based on Warren’s astonishing success in obtaining contributions not just from other MAP activists, including myself, but also some big names, such as high-profile human rights activist Peter Tatchell, Catholic priest Michael Ingram, and psychologist Beatrice Faust; also Tuppy Owens, publisher and editor of the hugely successful Sex Maniac’s Diary,  Jeff Vernon, gay youth activist and committee member of CHE; plus several co-editors of Peace News, including Roger Moody, author of Indecent Assault, a personal memoir of a brush with the law which he won.

Warren won his own first court battle, too, as a co-defendant of mine when we stood accused, along with other PIE committee members, of “conspiracy to corrupt public morals”. He adopted a defence strategy very unlike that of the rest of us, choosing to passionately assert his innocence in an eloquent statement from the dock, written in his own words, instead of giving evidence on oath that would have been subjected to cross-examination. It worked! The jury acquitted him. It may be more than merely coincidental that the very next year the government passed a new law banning such unsworn dock statements (Criminal Justice Act, 1982).

He was less lucky in a more recent case, though, when in 2011 he was convicted and jailed along with my successor as Chair of PIE, Steven Freeman, and others, in a case of downloading and sharing illicit images. After serving his one-year sentence, Warren would live quietly for the rest of his days, except for an episode in which his long memory would play a key part – the unmasking of Peter Tatchell when, for the sake of political expedience in changing times, he tried to deny ever having written positively about paedophilia.

Warren in his early sixties.

Tatchell had contrived to escape responsibility for his BOY chapter, but was put back firmly on the hook when Warren unearthed another Tatchell article in an obscure Marxist journal in which he praised BOY – the very book he denied ever having really known about or willingly contributed to. I blogged about it in 2021. As I wrote, Tatchell’s mendacious hypocrisy might have been forgivable had he simply been trying to salvage his own reputation. But Warren rightly decided to skewer him because he had gone further, ruthlessly trashing the name of old allies personally, including Warren and myself, in order to save himself.

It might seem from this that Warren had his own ruthless streak, but that was never how he seemed to me. I would affectionately say he was a man of hilarious contradictions. “Revolution!”, he would declare in his improbably posh voice, “We need nothing less than socialist revolution!” But the next minute he’d be telling us about his recent visit to the Vatican, and how honoured he had been to meet a cardinal and kiss his ring – on His Eminence’s finger, I hasten to add. And for a revolutionary firebrand, this loyal Catholic was generally very mild mannered, his fussy camp style more mother hen than outrageous queen.

He could be maternal, too, in his relationships with boys. I think one of them, John, would have been around 14, hustling in an amusement arcade or some such den of iniquity when they first met. Warren would have been in his early thirties. It was sex at first sight, one might say, but much more than just a one-night stand. Even after decades together they never married or called each other partners so far as I can remember, but they lived together for a long time and remained close friends “to the end”.

The way Warren would put it is that he had taken the boy under his wing, giving him security and protection. John had been a wild child, a “juvenile delinquent” as he would have been called in those days, or a “young offender” now. Staying with Warren offered him stability, taking him off the streets – something John’s family had evidently been unable to achieve.

And there’s another paradox. Warren the protector had also arguably been Warren the “predator”. Yes, he protected John, but only after picking him up in a hustling scenario. Which may be why one of Warren’s own chapters for BOY was on child prostitution. I think he wrote it as an exercise in thinking as deeply as he could about the morality of paying for sex with teens or younger children.

Re-reading that chapter for this remembrance of my old friend, I am reminded that he made a good job of it, starting with an erudite, copiously referenced, wide-ranging historical survey of the subject, packed with revelations the uninitiated will find jaw-dropping, a compelling read. But it is when he reaches modern times and explores the motivations of those involved that his contribution is at its most relevant and interestingly nuanced. While he comes to conservative conclusions on the undesirability of such prostitution, I am firmly of the view that it would be unfair to accuse him of hypocrisy. Unlike Tatchell, he does not resort to bogus puritanical moralising but instead makes a real effort to make positive suggestions for sensible policies.

Warren’s erudition is also somewhat paradoxical. He may have had a posh voice but he had never been to university or otherwise exposed to higher education. He earned a crust in modest catering roles, including that of hotdog salesman. He was self-taught, in other words, becoming an avid reader and enthusiastic bibliophile, with a particular interest in antiquarian books. In the course of this pursuit he struck up a friendship with Timothy D’arch Smith, a bookseller of note and author of Love in Earnest, on the Uranian poets, whose boy-love themes unsurprisingly attracted Warren’s attention, such that he became quite an expert on this circle himself. No surprise, D’arch Smith turns out to be yet another notable figure Warren cajoled into contributing to BOY, in his case via an Appendix on the Uranians.

In sum, it can be said that his activism and scholarly contribution were idiosyncratic and unique. His real name was John Parratt, but somehow Warren was the name that stuck, not just for me but for other old comrades too. He was a staunch friend, and sadly one of my last from that era. R.I.P. Warren.



Remember cancelled Karl, the Manchester University PhD researcher whose work proved too hot for the authorities to handle a couple of years ago? See here at HTOC.

Picture perfect… Cover illustration for Karl’s book.

The good news is that Karl, not to be beaten, stuck with his project, continuing his work on an independent, self-financing basis. And now, with the work completed, he has brought out a book with the fabulous title Impossibly Cute Boys.  The Amazon page tells us:

“Impossibly Cute Boys is the first book in English about Japanese shota comics and their fans. Shota features cute boy characters, but little is known about this manga genre and its readers since research is lacking, both in and outside of Japan.

Based on new research on PhD level, Impossibly Cute Boys details the history of shota (or shotacon) in Japan, before introducing us to the readers and creators of these comics, and asking them what it means to them to love shota. Their answers challenge both previous research and common assumptions about shota fans.

Impossibly Cute Boys is based on ethnographic fieldwork in Tokyo and Yokohama. An original contribution to academic research in the fields of anthropology and queer studies, the book is written in an accessible style and can be enjoyed by anyone wanting to learn more about an often misunderstood manga genre.”

Full title: Impossibly Cute Boys: The Healing Power of Shota Comics in Japan. Published by Breakout Bits in May, at £39.99 from Amazon.

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Im back…. moved house.. after 31 years.. its been very tough. But the struggle being an autistic map is immense. But the mission must continue… yes, i did support spain against ingland… but sadly spain has gone down the road of anti freedom, sad considering it had aoc of 13 not so long ago…


I got Peter Herman to promise to answer questions from Fediverse, but unfortunately he died before I could get the account set up.

MAP Union

A new forum has launched, administrated by the featured article’s author and two other people:

Here is the website, which is an activist organization/information campaign looking to do work with universities and media:


>A new forum has launched, administrated by the featured article’s author and two other people

No note of natural counterpart AAMs, and sadly already bad-mouthed by Anglo Victorian ‘child saving’ Reduxx. Natural self-pleasuring kids including AAMs saved from SeX – WTF?!

SAVE natural kids from unnatural Reduxx!!

Last edited 2 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

The absolute favorite activity of Reduxx perverts is to desexualize teen girls, who are sexualized by nature, and to sexualize old women over 25, who are desexualized by nature.

Gee, I wonder why a group of feminists wants old used up women to turn into sex objects and ban young teen girls from competing with them for the same men??

I just can’t figure it out!



I have a question for Tom and other heretics on this page. As you are all aware consent is more determined by mental capacity as opposed to age and would any of you be satisfied if the age of consent was replaced with the mental capacity to consent that way maps will be free to have the relationships they desire?


Tom, if I remember correctly, didn’t PIE advocate an age of consent of four years of age?


Thanks for the clarification Tom. I must say that I fully agree with PIE’s proposals and although I was only in my mid teens in those days, I remember the sad inevitability of the establishment putting a stop to the progressive thinking of those like Roy Jenkins and ensuring that PIE was wiped from the face of the earth. As I remember, Roy Jenkins was Home Secretary and supported debate about lowing the AoC to 14, or even, as some advocated, 12! Such a period of hope, so soon snuffed out!


if the age of consent was replaced with the mental capacity to consent that way maps will be free to have the relationships they desire?

Consent is just a series of many approvals. As long as you are interested and pleasant and you are not experiencing fear and pain, you are expressing consent to every action, and not all at once. You don’t need a PhD to do this.

The problem is that antis will still come up with excuses. Antis will say that the brain stops growing only after 25, but at the same time they are silent that by 6-7 years the brain of a minor is already comparable to an adult. Antis love to brag about the successes of minors in mathematics, chess, etc., but immediately fall into hysterics at the hint of sexuality and sexual success. Minors are freely allowed to ride horses and jump with a parachute, despite the risk of falling, breaking their neck or being killed. According to their logic, this is nothing, the main thing is that it is not kissing and mutual masturbation. They will say that minors cannot know all the consequences of sex and cannot give so-called informed consent. Although this is precisely the essence of proper sex education, so that by the time puberty begins, they are already informed and know how to protect themselves and prevent unwanted pregnancy. Instead, the antis intimidate them, after which they imagine harassment and sexual assault everywhere.


>if the age of consent was replaced with the mental capacity to consent that way maps will be free to have the relationships they desire?

The AAM age of dissent/consent was/is always birth, when sentient infants refuse a nasty taste/pain but embrace a tasty teat/pleasure. Free to have, or not, the relationships they desire. While inhuman Anglo Victorians still enforcing their malignant false laws Worldwide denying benign human instinct are far more abusers, than the few pseudo ‘MAPS’ imposing their will on unwilling minors. And Worldwide willful AAMS don’t just consent, but SEEK benign adult sex, ogling near-nude adults in hypocrite Anglo sex-filled ‘Family’ media. Find one, just one, sentient pre-teen Worldwide that won’t wanna fuck some adult HOT Rock-Pop-Pinup-TV-Sport Star?

Last edited 5 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

I dont’t think a mental capacity should be a factor either. My daughter (of legal age) is mentally disabled – in some respects her intelligence is well below an 8-year-old. Still, she desire sex since around 12. Why she shouldn’t be able to legally have it?


When I hear about a child’s supposed lack of “cognitive ability” to understand the consequences of voluntary sexual behavior, I feel like asking “What consequences”? A child can by definition not get pregnant nor become a father at the age of 8, so the only consequence I can imagine is that the immediate surroundings around him or her become unreasonably hysteric causing distress and feelings of guilt, thereby creating problems where there were none. All the more so given that, if we think about aborts, divorces and murders because of jealousy, then it does not exactly look like adults are very capable of foreseeing the consequences of their actions either.


And another one:

Was Alice Munro An Art Monster? Or just a monster?

My stepfather sexually abused me when I was a child. My mother, Alice Munro, chose to stay with him

Maybe it’s good for business? Don’t get me wrong. I have tremendous empathy for the real victims and I feel genuinely sorry for them. I know what it’s like – I’ve been victimized by society all my life and I get re-victimized every time I read an article like this :(.

I just find it a little weird to kick into one’s deceased mother like that.


Kicking into deceased people, especially famous ones, in order to create itchy scandals, is a well-known Anglo-American custom (Savile, Michael Jackson…)


lets kick into charlie chaplin too. oh, hes a legend, tho..


ALL MAPS – all time TOP THREE U.S. solo singles disc sales!!!

ELVIS HOT Loli MAP – Physical Singles Sales 135,210,000
FRANK HOT Loli MAP – Physical Singles Sales 95,250,000
MICHAEL HOT Laddie MAP – Physical Singles Sales 79,350,000

Last edited 11 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

In plain-sight all unseen by the all Anglo fake Media victims-industry COWARDS.

Anglo-Global all time top three Rock-Pop MAPS ogled stalked chased grabbed groped groomed kissed fucked Worldwide by tens of millions of sex-keen AAMS, many underage not just consenting but SEEKING sex.

Kinda kwote Rockin ’50s Hollywood HOT Loli, AAM Wild Child Tuesday Weld, “By age thirteen I was HOT dating mature stars (MAPS) like Sinatra, when my Mom asked me to test for Kubrick’s planned ‘Lolita’ movie. I said ‘No thanks, and I don’t need to test – I AM Lolita!’ ”

Last edited 8 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

Hi everybody! First off, kudos for all the well written articles and great comments.
I’m sorry if this post doesn’t follow directly the theme of the article, but I see that, here in the comment section, tangent posts seem to be allowed. It was through one the links in those post, which I read as eagerly as the articles themselves, that I found links to newgon and yesmap, and related activism. I remember I read on some page that part of the activism is also “counter-action” with posts below youtube’s videos with clearly “anti” or misinformed content regarding paedophilia.
A couple of days ago I stumbled upon a video titled “Is there a danger to moralising everything?”, and thought it was a good one, until I reached 360 seconds, where a lady makes an example of what can clearly be considered as bad. And you can imagine what it is. Very dismaying, as also a couple of comments below, regarding the topic paedophilia. And it was at that point that I thought about the above mentioned activism. Here is the link to the video with the interesting part:


Happy voting day for those of you in the UK!


Much sympathy for rebecca joynes, jailed by our cruel country for educating adolescents.


Much sympathy indeed! Look at the footage: that “child” is twice the size of her!

There are two young guys involved – very lucky, now unlucky guys I might add – and she is seen buying a designer belt for her “victim” before they leave together and (allegedly, probably) have sex at her apartment. And, does this young dude look the least bothered, perhaps frozen with fear at all that dreaded “power” she’s wielding over him? Fat chance!

Nope! We can’t see his face so who knows, but I reckon that he and this other guy, were having the time of their young lives! They were living the dream of most male hetero adolescents! How sad that the law, “the forces of chastity” as the Kinsey (2004) movie put it, has now reared its ugly head; put a dampener on what could and may well be wonderful memories for all involved. Hopefully, if these were happy times, all involved will remain resilient through the grueling court proceedings to follow. Hard times await them, and I hope the young guys won’t be coerced / brainwashed into accepting a “victim” narrative, if that’s not how they saw things at the time…

Truly a fucked up world we live in… Everyone secretly knows this is bullshit, they’re just too scared to say it.

And god, the double standards: who wants to bet that, if this case had been a older guy with two teenaged female students, that the arresting officers wouldn’t be half as nice as they were to dear Rebecca?

This’d be a good case to follow and look up occasionally. Could be like Ben Dunbar, where they remain friends after the woman is released from prison.


The real abusers are these “protection” services that suppress minor voices and the will. That’s why I often compare it to slavery, when I come across a typical statement – “why don’t minors protest and demand to change the laws?” Did the protests of black slaves lead to the abolition of slavery? No, slavery was abolished by decree of “white men”.


>Much sympathy for rebecca joynes, jailed by our cruel country for educating adolescents.

While non-Anglo no cunts kind France backed Brigitte and Emmanuel. And, non-Anglo no-cunts kind France backed Star MAP Polanski WANTED by BIG Anglo cruel cunts U$A / Uptite$ickA$$holes.

Therefore, why is the President of France’s wife not in jail? The-then 41 year-old, Brigitte Auziere was a drama teacher at the private Jesuit-run High School when she met student Emmanuel Macron, who was just 14 years old and they fell in love. Transposing the situation to a candidate in the UK’s general election is basically impossible; it would send shockwaves throughout British politics. But as a French person, it’s the reaction that I find surprising. The Macrons’ story is unusual and interesting, sure, but it’s also no big deal. But this has nothing to do with pupil-teacher relationships, French politics or romantic behaviour. This is simply sexism. Certainly, Macron has no regrets about his teenage coup de foudre. In a social media exchange with voters, he was asked by a student for his advice after ‘falling for my law teacher’. With a smug smile, Macron responded: “You need to know if it is mutual. If that is the case, go for it! No taboos!’ If we are to reach gender equality, it has to work both ways or will never work at all.”

Last edited 11 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

Maps could also include the incel community in their alliance as well, might be an idea?



I’m sure there’s some crossover between Inceldom and ‘taboo’ attractions / desire. It’d be particularly acute for the more exclusively attracted MAPs, though non-exclusive MAPs and even non-exclusive Teleiophiles will suffer under the psychological weight of stigma.

I’ve seen it said that there seems to be a lot of autism within the MAP community, and apparently, according to the fantastic up-and-coming Incel researcher William Costello, autism is prevalent in self-identified Incel men.

Warbling J Turpitude

I’m very self-conscious here because Tom has recently nixed a comment or two of mine without fanfare or excuses.

[MOD: Not sure I need excuses to moderate my own blog, Mr T. As for reason: off-topic. You should have known because you were advised beforehand in this comment space with full “fanfare”, as some readers may remember and anyone can check.]

But here goes, Prue: why the scare-quotes around ‘taboo’? All is assuredly not “psychology” It is the omnipresence of taboo alone, writ/lit extremely large within our collectively/scenically-experienced soul,(s) that first awakens, then feeds, and finally sustains individual desire.

Can you begin to sketch in, or even coherently think about, a portrait of desire that would thrive in the complete absence of such taboo?

Own autism rating: very spicy

Steve Diamond

I’ve found [and at times I may have been personally guilty of this] that a lot of the time, the people holding the “most extreme” stances, are the old guard who’ve been fighting for decades, seeing little to no positive change, and looking at the probability that they’ll die seeing the world in the same or worse condition.

This observation likely does not add a whole lot to any conversation on strategy, but it does offer a context on why some people hold nothing back…Many are frustrated with the confines of being diplomatic.

Marginalizing these voices, when we paradoxically need them the most in these times…I just…I don’t know…It feels dead wrong…and yet, there is a logical defense of it.

But it would be, necessarily, banishing people who’ve spent their lives fighting for this movement, and sentencing them to isolation. I don’t know how you balance that.

On the other hand…I absolutely do not recognize people, with violent, psychopathic tendencies, who want to legalize and engage in actual brutality, as being part of any movement I am associated with.


>I absolutely do not recognize people, with violent, psychopathic tendencies, who want to legalize and engage in actual brutality, as being part of any movement I am associated with.

Is newbie Steve still confusing the few sadly abused but largely publicised, with millions mightily amused and never publicised? Always respect true, not fake, victims, include millions of true victims of fake media, “Here is the News. This is what we want you to think.”


>I absolutely do not recognize people, with violent, psychopathic tendencies, who want to legalize and engage in actual brutality, as being part of any movement I am associated with.

For old boy, not ‘newbie’ Steve.

“People, with violent, psychopathic tendencies, who want to legalize and engage in actual brutality”. Well describes the whole psycho-sadist Anglo post-Reformation (of convenience not conviction) ongoing bully-coward culture on five continents where they don’t belong. History’s biggest hypocrites, liars, denyers, self-justifyers, thieves, mass murderers, bar-none. The alltime worst perversely posed as ‘World Best’?

While, absolutely in plain-sight conveniently unseen by psychopathic hypocrite Anglo sex-and-violence filled ‘Family’ fake media for ratings profit power and control over their kept dumb infantilised masses. Centuries of elite Anglo high fees psycho-sadist brutal boarding schools lawfully, ritually mentally, emotionally, physically, sexually abuse young boys from age 8. Somehow creating not life-scarred low income victims needing lifelong help and BIG cash compo, but trauma-free sneering high achievers, National and World leaders like Churchill, BoJo & Co. Then paying for their own young boys from age 8 sent to the same Anglo elite high-fees brutal boarding schools. To sustain their elite sneering cycle of the perversely amused-not-abused.

Last edited 12 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

“On the other hand…I absolutely do not recognize people, with violent, psychopathic tendencies, who want to legalize and engage in actual brutality, as being part of any movement I am associated with.”

I absolutely agree on that, violence has nothing to do with the MAP Movement, I respect ANTI-CONTACT non-consensual sadists and similar paras and I believe that there are FICTIONAL alternatives to satisfy those fantasies but supporting them to do these acts against people in real life It is absolutely unacceptable, we are child-lovers NOT child abusers.

Saying that abusers have a place in our community is an insult to real MAPs and it is also giving reason to the propaganda image of the antis who believe that we are all abusers.

Although I support the idea of ​​cooperating with other queer communities (kinks, TransIDs, etc.) I think it is important to create a united pro-diversity movement


I went off on one in the comments below about the recent Dr. Disrespect drama, about condemnation without evidence, and a whole lot of vagueposting. This drama has continued and intensified, being covered by countless media outlets and even bigger Youtubers. For example, the gaming and drama YouTuber Penguinz0 (with over 13 million subscribers), has made 2 videos about Dr. D now. Others have followed, and the few critical voices I saw on Youtube have stayed quiet (Asmongold), or changed their tune (Chud Logic).

A good summary that reads out the most relevant tweets, if you can put up with the occasional moral indignation ‘disgusting’, can be found here:

According to this video, the original tweet that kick-started this drama got 60 million views in 12 hours. 60… Million…

There’s new vagueposting tweets from an apparent former Twitch employee. Showcased at the start of this video (no need to watch past 1 min 30, it’s irrelevant off-topic rambling), he writes – laughably and ridiculously in my opinion – that “Twitch let pedophiles run free.” He apparently signed an NDA and kept silent, but now feels “I have to say something.” In a follow-up tweet, he says he’s “literally afraid for legal and safety reasons,” and after apologizing for his vagueness, ends with the amazingly conspiracy bait line: “half the shit you assume is probably true.”

Myself and a friend following this drama have come to conclude that: 1.) Dr. D should not have apologized in any fashion. This is 101 stuff if you’re a public figure – never, ever apologize because your enemies will twist your apology and say “look, he admits it!” – and always get back to work in a noticeable way asap. And, 2.) Dr. D’s best choice would’ve been to not respond to the original Tweet. Since the tweet didn’t name him but vagueposted about him, Dr. D could’ve left it alone and let everyone endlessly speculate. He couldn’t have known how much discourse his response would generate, and I won’t ‘blame the victim’. It is, however, how some people save their careers: Dr. Joseph J. Fischel got some flack after defending minors seeing kink at pride parades – the ‘Kink at Pride’ discourse a few years ago – and whilst he had some nasty stuff written about him, he just never addressed it and moved on. That doesn’t work if you lose your job / platform so can’t ignore and move on, but for others’ it’s a decent strat…


Britain’s political and media class have turned their complicity in the mass slaughter of Gaza’s children into a non-issue on the election trail.

I for one must advise that i’m fair astounded to learn that Mr Pup here, famed for his ability to see straight through the pan-cultural veil of hypocrisy that paradoxically generates and sustains the erotic child, apparently falls like a a sack of potatoes for something as brazenly transparent as Hamas propaganda – Hamas propaganda as dependent for its effects as any legacy mediatrics you care to name on we in the west’s preprogranmed auto-sentiment for the figure of an unknown, innocent child…

[MOD: Mr Turp has very politely put Mr Pup’s judgement in question, which is perfectly admissible. Indeed, I am tempted to make it obligatory! 🙂 However, the basis for criticism strays off topic. Accordingly, any further debate will be kept short, except that Mr Pup will be indulged to the extent of a single concise reply should he wish to make one (which I think is likely, to put it mildly!)]

Last edited 14 days ago by Warbling J Turpitude

Fair enough…i think? For not only am i unsure of what Tom might mean here by “the basis for criticism” but also of what “topic” is being strayed from exactly? My intention was in fact the hope of putting Mr Pup right back on track, that track being to the BOMK the myriad ways in which control of our broadest sentiments regarding the spectre of “children” is uppermost in the machinations of long dominant media…?

Last edited 14 days ago by warbling j turpitude

>MOD: Mr Turp has very politely put Mr Pup’s judgement in question, which is perfectly admissible. Indeed, I am tempted to make it obligatory! However, the basis for criticism strays off topic. Accordingly, any further debate will be kept short, except that Mr Pup will be indulged to the extent of a single concise reply should he wish to make one (which I think is likely, to put it mildly!)]

SeXtremely polite short concise reply to mildly naieve Turp: 1948-1967-1987-ongoing victims in their own land Hamas-Palestinian propagandists are cum-lately AMATEURS. Compared to centuries of psychopathic mass child-killing invaders UK/U$/Zionists. Global mass media Goose-Stepping improper-ganders in WAY too many others lands. Kwote, “Honk Honk, mass media hypocrisy U know it makes the naieve believe nonsense – not neat Nonce Sense!!”

Last edited 14 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

Dutch volleyball player who raped 12 year old qualifies for Paris Olympics. Only one person knows if it was rape. the girl in question. have they asked her if it was rape? Yeh Uk law says 12 is rape. But USA says 17 is rape. So we cant listen to these people.


Hadn’t seen this story so looked it up. His name is Steve van de Velde?

If what Tom says is true, then good for him. I’d say it’s a victory over cancel culture, but w/ the stigma round Velde’s neck he might be cancelled yet. In this case, prevented from performing at the olympics. A lot of news articles about him from a day or so ago, and that renewed interest could F him over.

Well, I hope that’s not the case. Looks (and sounds) like a cool guy…
Some new cases / bullshit dramas in the Twitterspehere lately: the most recent is a long-time, early adopter of video game streaming, ‘Dr. Disrespect’.

His case was 4 years ago but is being dragged up again after an alleged ex Twitch employee stated the real (as yet hidden) reason for Dr. D’s ban 4 years ago. The reason: having been in a group chat and privately messaging what happened to be “a minor”, and saying they’ll see them at the upcoming event Twitchcon [interpeted negatively by commentators recently as “arranged to meet”]. The age, sex, or any details about the minor or how they feel are never given… We don’t even know if he knew they were a minor at the time! No evidence has been made public but the Internet is going wild with speculation, even comparing him to Jeffrey Epstein.

Me and a friend were stunned by the conspiratorial thinking of this popular YouTuber.

It’s amazing how he shows no evidence, and quite literally sees Dr. D’s denial as proof of guilt. The fact that Dr. D went through an investigation and expensive legal dispute over his ban from Twitch while he was a ‘Twitch Partner’ (like tenure but for streamers), and WON a hefty settlement with no criminal wrongdoing found – this is seen only as further proof of a shady cover up on Twitch’s part. I’d originally subscribed to Aba N Preach bc of a vid where they pushed back on the adult-adult age gap stigma, but they’ve since gone full conspiracy bait Anti mode.

People are divided on this one, with popular YouTube Asmongold saying how “complicated” it all is (it’s not), but how Dr. D could justifiably sue for defamation bc of this recent drama, whilst Chud Logic wasn’t impressed by the lack of evidence.

Apparently, just saying you’d see or be around “a minor” at a future event must be indicative of sexual interest and “grooming” on the older person’s part. So apparently desirable “a minor” must be that people are willing to risk their (in his case) lucrative jobs, wife and kids, and social standing, to arrange a meeting with such cryptically veiled yet obvious intentions! Not obvious to me, him, or the investigating parties that cleared him, but of course Youtubers and Twitter commentators know the ‘Truth’, whatever the lack of evidence says…

What a lonely world it must be for young people. If you don’t get along w/ your peers or parents, you’re fucked. No wonder they stick to video games, porn, erotic fiction (very common for women), and seek anonymous interactions IRL or on sites like Omegle where they can lie about their age. There’s so much negativity about “your kind,” the untouchables, the modern lepers. You’re not even allowed to be friends with older people (some would even argue older ‘children’ too), they might fancy you and/or take an interest in you (the horror! The humanity!)

Anyway, it’s not all bad: Dr. D still has a career to speak of (though I think he’s retiring). And many people online have pushed back against the conspiracy posters… Silent majority issue!!!


Hypocrite politics will not allow 12 year olds to talk about their sexual desires and feelings because they are supposedly not mature enough, at the same time they are mature enough to face criminal liability and to public speak at the UN. This essentially means that politics only use minors’ votes when it benefits them.


Exactly ! a 12 year old stabbed someone to death recently, so clearly they are capable !!!

Ed Chambers

Do you have any links for this news?


Where did he take her virginity to? I was under the impression that such a concept had long vanished from popular discourse, because it was almost invariably used to stigmatise girls who ‘lost their virginity’ before getting roped into a marriage contract.


Crowds of ignoramuses still believe in the sacredness of maiden virginity. They don’t understand, that the hymen is necessary only to protect the genital tract of a girl in infancy from excrement. When a girl already knows how to use the toilet and maintain hygiene, the hymen is no longer needed. In some culture, the presence of a hymen, on the contrary, was considered “uncleanliness,” so when bathing their daughters, mothers “punched” the hymen with their finger.


Glad to be of service. From

“It was impossible,” continues Dr. Jacobus X——, “ever to find the signs of virginity among the Machacura women in Brazil, and Feldner explains the reason thus:

“‘Among them a virgin is never to be found, for this reason: that the mother from her daughter’s tenderest years endeavours with the utmost care to remove all tightness of the vagina and obstacle therein. With this end in view, the leaf of a tree folded in the shape of a funnel is held in the right hand, then while the index finger is introduced into the genital parts and worked to and fro, warm water is admitted by means of the funnel.’ (Journey Across Brazil, 1828).

“Among the Sakalaves in Madagascar the young girls deflower themselves, when the parents have not previously seen to this necessary preparation for marriage.


“Among the Sakalaves in Madagascar the young girls deflower themselves, when the parents have not previously seen to this necessary preparation for marriage.

This is taken from Edward Westermarck’s book “The History of Human Marriage” (1891). Moreover, in his next book “The Origin and Development of the Moral Ideas” (1906) has a chapter on homosexuality and pederasty in different cultures ( and one time even used the word “boy-love”). As was typical for authors of that time, pederasty was not separated from homosexuality and was described under the general heading of “homosexual love”.

Ed Chambers

For sure, I’d do the same if I were in their shoes. I mean, who wouldn’t?


Some of those quotes are mind blowing!


> Neonatal, Infant, Prepubertal and Pubescent Defloratio Artificialis

As ever, over-analyzing academics often overlook the mundane in plain-sight. Bike-riding, piggy-backing, horse-back BUMPING and Humping HOT Lolis keen for CLIT-thrills, break their own hymen that they don’t even know exists.

Kinda kwote HOT Loli’s HOT Mom, “Not just consenting but SEEKING sex. My 4yo HOT Loli’s blood-specked DAMP panty-crotch PROVE she’s as HOT as I was, hard humping on Uncle MAP’s manly thighs.”

Last edited 16 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

That reminds me of a really good movie from 1945 called “The Falcon In San Francisco.” There are intimations all throughout it of a girl around 6 who has a serious crush on the main character, The Falcon. There are scenes where they talk about marriage- and the man looks at her, implying she could be a possibility. There’s a scene where The Falcon and his sidekick sneak into her bedroom at night. But the scene which I remembered after reading the above is where the girl jumps onto The Falcon’s back as he carries her off to her room, crying “giddy up horsey, giddy up! faster horsey, faster!” while she grinds her mound against his bac. The director must have known what he was doing. It’s great.


Rare AAM-posi gem Dorlexa, 10yrs pre-Nab’s MAP-neg novel “Lolita”.

Aired (now blocked) by Beeb2, 2012 & 2014

02m.33s: ” he isn’t kidnapping me. He’s a nice man.” “They always are honey.” (even some of the many MAPcops).


>Judge Francis Sheridan is said to have told the athlete: “A young, naive, foolish child had formed the view that you loved her.”

Anglo mainstream fake take, re-phrased, “A webwise/streetwise pro-active child, like millions more in plain-sight before and since not just consenting but SEEKING sex. While naturally fancying HOT Adult Rock/Pop/Sport stars chased, grabbed, groped, groomed, kissed, and layed. YOU are therefore a victim not offender and are free to return to your sensible (not sense-offender) homeland Holland where this nasty senseless prosecution would never occur. While the Anglo nutcase fools that brought this senseless expensive prosecution can be listed for time-wasting malicious misconduct in public office. Case dismissed. Take those senseless Anglo nutcases down and on for VERY longterm treatment in a VERY secure-unit for cunits! Bring on the next Anglo nutcases please.”

Last edited 18 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

Adolescent, not child, thats why she so horny. Netherlands not that great, AOC is 16. But i guess its not quite as witch hunting as english speaking countries….


>Adolescent, not child, thats why she so horny. Netherlands not that great, AOC is 16. But i guess its not quite as witch hunting as english speaking countries….

TeenMAP matt knows not how horny pre-teens including AAMs can be.

Last edited 13 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

You should have written pre-pubescent to make it clear.


Blast from the past here, probably testing your memory.

Was looking for something the other day and stumbled on this issue of The Body Politic, and saw a review of The Age Taboo and The Man they Called a Monster (both 1981), and was surprised and interested to see the reviewer mentions you (and very positively at that!) I distilled some of it for a paragraph on the Intergen Lesbianism page:

Writing in Toronto’s The Body Politic, lesbian feminist writer Christine Donald reviewed The Age Taboo (Tsang ed. 1981) and The Man they Called a Monster (Wilson, 1981), stated how she was “impressed by the lucidity” of PIE Chairperson Tom O’Carroll‘s arguments, “by his politeness, courage, and stamina” after having invited and heard him speak at a ‘Gay Cambridge’ event, and lamented the “silenced women” afraid of speaking out after “the scandalmongering of the straights [… and] the denunciation of feminists [which] has helped silence them.”

Donald recalls “a workshop on pedophilia at the International Lesbian Information Secretariat (ILIS) conference in Amsterdam in January, 1981 […] that approached the subject (rather than frantically pushing it away) by speaking about our own first sexual experiences.” She states that “Many of these [sexual] experiences happened when we were between twelve and sixteen, some with best friends and contemporaries, more with a prefect, a teacher, an older friend,” and recalls what she now recognizes as love feelings for her German teacher at 15, her friend Julie Irvine at 11, and her friend Anne Morris’s mother at 8.

The question is: does that ring any bells? Gay Cambridge talk in Canada, 1980/1981? Like I say, probably testing your memory with this one. Be interesting to know if you remember this event, how it went, and Christine Donald… Another interesting example of female, lesbian, and LGBT support in history.


Fascinating stuff. I was assuming Canada because Body Politic, and because Canada has a lot of British influence, there is indeed a Cambridge in Ontario. Though I can easily imagine you jetting off to Canada for a conference – the travelling man you are – what you recall sounds more likely / realistic. And, of course, interesting as always!

[H]ow nice my hosts were. Some of their committee people took me to evensong afterwards at St John’s College because they thought I might like the choirboys

> What a different world. Not long ago in the human experience. Less that 1 person’s lifetime. How radically and how quickly cultures and attitudes can change.


F.B. LoliMAP Lemmonier’s HOT Lolis pull sweet pea’s penis?

Last edited 25 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

>But how do we make such common cause without also alienating those young idealists? Not easy!

Earlier noted by some MAPs. Today’s phone-porn-in-pockets ‘Gen Selfie Sext’ Worldwide wised up and guilt-free from age 5, including AAMs mocking Victorian sex-laws. A vast majority, beyond the neo-Victorian phoney Anglophone are growing up unsuppressed or repressed by post-Love Generation Anglos generating blind hate and irrational fear via their fake media careers, ratings and profit for power and control over their kept dumb shallow infantilised mugs so called ‘adults’.

E.G. Anglo fake media infantilised dumbed down Dad, “Er, you’re nearly 13 now, I’ve seen you and your lil sis ogling near-nude HOT Babes & Dudes in ‘Family’ media including my SUN, son. So, we need to talk about, er Sex.”

World Web Wised Up Anglo AAM, “OK Dad, WTF don’tcha understand?”

WAY bak Bold MAP’s HOT Dad bought the pre-SUN ‘Family’ weekly REVEILLE to strongly wank over…and over…

Last edited 27 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

Hey, thanks for the response, Tom.

I recognize those limitations, and how associating our group with anything else can automatically have this poisoning effect, and lead to accusations of “misappropriation”.

At the same time, the idea MAPs are inherently psychopathic is something only recently challenged within the scientific paradigm. Do we want to undo that, by way of some foolish gesture politics to the benefit of a small few who might even be disruptors?

One argument in support of projecting extreme anti-c identities such as some of those described in my article, is that others unaware of the relatively low levels of psychopathy among MAPs, may be more inclined to believe we are “hiding nothing”.

Arguing this way might lend support to the idea that even extreme and violent impulses can be controlled, but could also do harm by associating them with attraction to minors.

Anyway, my next essay (which is about 10 times too big for this blog, and beyond its scope) will collate and address malicious behavior on the fringes of our community, including some such behavior arguably linked to this kind of identity politics. It will address what appear to be false charges there is a “fediverse cult” associated with this way of thinking, and that “children” are being “groomed” inside the cult. I’ll also carefully address the targeted defamation/dox campaign against Newgon, the PCMA work group and some of its members on a point-by-point basis.

I also have a shorter essay on the anti-c/pro-c balance of our community that is of the right length to fill a gap here, but might be beyond its scope. I’ll probably make all of this material available as a notice at the top of for two months, to make it easy for people to find, as I will soon be retreating and become almost invisible in the community.


>the idea MAPs are inherently psychopathic is something only recently challenged within the scientific paradigm.

And, will the ‘scientific paradigm’ U.$. DSM inherently profiteering sick psychos, soon say that Worldwide healthy AAMs are sick psychos too?

Quote UK mentally healthy ‘Mind’, “Labels are for parcels, not people.”


So we could well be accused of misappropriation, for example, by aligning with the Youth Rights movement or Queer issues. This is one of the criticisms Trans activists made of Dr Allyn Walker, even though Walker never sought to mobilize their Trans identity to “normalize pedophilia”. They were effectively criticized by a Trans student association for “having an opinion while Trans”.

It is perhaps not impossible we might be accused of using a Trojan horse strategy by identifying as one small part of a larger basket of “Paraphiles” in the future. I already see Paraphiles on Twitter who have notices on their profiles telling Minors and MAPs not to interact because MAPs are “abusive”, “harmful”, “invalid”.

By “Do we want to undo that?”, I refer to my own phrasing, not yours. I.e, do we really want to undo the work of psychologists disproving the link between pedophilia and psychopathic tendencies? The “small few”, would indeed refer to the number of MAPs who feel the urge to hurt or rape children and minors. There is probably a selection bias for those who experience those kind of feelings, in that they might seek solace in our community. But we need to be very careful not to conflate the two things, such that psychopathic MAPs might be paraded and exploited for a circus of hate by the hostile press.

So, as for the deliberate projection/deployment of the anti-c psychopath/biastophile MAP identity, this is something I am really against, personally. But it could be argued using this strategy is more compatible with a public/media who believe the demonical pedophile myth. Somebody describing themselves as a truly degenerate and deranged pedophile is basically answering those calls to the NAMBLA helpline and saying “yes, I am a BABY RAPER, but I would never RAPE A BABY”. So in a strange way, they gain points for honesty, because the clean-cut assimilationist pedo is always suspected of hiding such perversions because he is a “groomer”.

What it is basically saying is “yes, these freakish and frightening impulses exist throughout society, but the vast majority of us are controlling them, as acting on them would be unethical”. This, I see as having some common cause with MAP activism, but it needs to be handled so carefully.

Last edited 26 days ago by Strat/Jim

I’m going to take a break from that part of the community, but maybe this is something to revisit in 18 months time or something.

I run an instance ( if you fancy investigating. I had Peter Melzer signed up to do a Q&A on there before he passed away, and you are occasionally mentioned, so there is a growing awareness their culture goes back further than 2016.


We are definitely looking at a gen-z audience, and naturally I would not be inclined to support these initiatives (chat servers, fedi instances) as they are quite obscure, hard to find and inward-facing.

Only, I don’t see any security for community-building elsewhere, especially among that demographic.

A group I am working with plans to open a forum soon; one that can be viewed almost in full before registration. That could be exciting, and might function as a meeting place for different generations.


>I also have a shorter essay on the anti-c/pro-c balance of our community;

So, please seXplain the millions of unstoppable pro-Contact AAMs in plain-sight for decades ongoing chasing grabbing, groping, grooming, fucking HOT adult stars; all unseen by Strat/Jim & fake media?

Last edited 24 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

We can agree that feminists have been right to combat the subservience and abuse of women under patriarchy but also feel the term “feminazi” is not without substance

It was possible to talk about an “abusive patriarchy” while women did not have the right to vote, the right to choose a job and work, the right to choose clothes and express sexuality, the right to abortion. Feminists achieved all this a long time ago and now they have everything they wanted.

But modern feminism no longer about women liberation, femininity and sexuality, on the contrary, they promote hatred of men, puritanism and sexophobia. They want to destroy everything that has been achieved within the framework of liberation. They attack femininity by calling it “objectification” and “sexualization.” They call any awkward flirting “harassment” and “assault.” They persecute people and ruin their lives. That’s why they are now called “feminazis”.


>But modern feminism no longer about women liberation, femininity and sexuality, on the contrary, they promote hatred of men, puritanism and sexophobia.

E.G. BBC/BiasedByCommission (& Omission) weak-end Wimmins Hour will feature ‘stealthing’ new sex crime? Creating WAY mo’ Femme victim-survivors of stealthy removal of condoms by devious dudes.

But NO note of many abusive femmes failing to fit a coil, or take the pill, or pre-sex poking holes in condoms, creating victim-survivors of men made dads on demand D.O.D. – DOH!

Last edited 26 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

The history of mankind is a history of repeated injuries and usurpation on the part of man toward woman, having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over her.

Do those asserting at most a late corruption of feminism to feminazism, know whence this excerpt came?


Judged on their own actions, feminists were at least as abused by the possibility of men and girls forming relationships, as by their supposed suffrage issues for themselves. Had promoting such feminazism been the way forward, we’d already be living in a NAMBLA or whatever Utopia since the 1970s, not an even more degenerate and declining West.

In a sense, the feminists were the OG, while the Nazis merely applied their policies to other groups of Untermenschen. With feminazis shouting ‘Slava Ukraini’ in Congress and giving an SS Galizien member standing ovations in Canada, one needs Newgon level ignorance to deny the association continues to this day.


Thanks for your last post, Tom.

I would like to suggest some topics for your next posts:

– Evolution of the issue of paedophilia within homosexual culture and the modern LGBT movement – can paedophiles be considered to belong to the “LGBT collective”?

– Consideration of paedophilia as a sexual orientation in its own right. Is paedophilia a sexual orientation in itself or just a particular aspect of homosexuality and heterosexuality? Do paedophiles feel “gay”? Do you in particular, Tom, consider yourself gay? Personally, I have come to see paedophilia as a sexual orientation quite distinct from any other. A boy or teenager, full of vitality and beauty, has nothing to do with a man full of hair. The object of desire is absolutely different. I consider a child/adolescent to be as different from a man as a woman is. Therefore, I think that although paedophiles are obviously homosexuals (same-sex attraction), they have nothing to do with “gays” as that concept is understood today. I even think that paedophiles are closer to heterosexuals than to “gays”.

I hope you will be encouraged to write about such things.


a man full of hair

Are men filled with hair? Makes them sound like teddy bears. But anyway, as Tom comments, there are many such as me who love both sexes or just girls. Those exclusively girl-orientated seem, historically and presently, to be much less prominent in discussions. Why might that be?

Marco Antonio

I even think that paedophiles are closer to heterosexuals than to “gays”



Wilson and Cox give the answer in their book “The Child-Lovers – A Study of Paedophiles in Society”:

We also noted that many of the qualities of boys that were attractive to paedophile men were, paradoxically, female characteristics. In many respects, the prepubescent boy is more like a woman than a man, and it was these very attributes (hairlessness, soft skin, unbroken voice, smallness, charm and understanding) that were so often given by paedophiles as the reason for their attraction to boys.


As was pointed out in CSC Nusletter Vol. III No. 1 (comment image&t=12 ), the greatest erotic minority consists of children. By an obvious symmetry, the liberation of children is the natural prerequisite and most powerful factor in MAP liberation. This is more important than all fringe sexual orientation groups.
The emancipation from oppressive and bigoted conceptions about children will come with the fight against all forms of bigotry and oppression. Watch social and political movements of revolt in general, not only in the aspects relating to gender and sexuality.
The so-called men’s movement consists mainly of traditional men who feel destabilised by the recent fights for women’s and gay rights; a large part of them are reactionary, some are even misogynistic. I don’t expect anything good from them. As a man who has devoted a great deal of time to poetry and art about or by little girls, the word “masculinity” has no meaning for me.


Does not the word “masculinity” become very important when you consider who is making that poetry and art?


When it is “by a little girl”, no masculinity is involved.
When it is “about a little girl”, whether the author is a man, a woman, or a trans, is not important.


>By an obvious symmetry, the liberation of children is the natural prerequisite and most powerful factor in MAP liberation. This is more important than all fringe sexual orientation groups.

> HappyHumpingPup Reply to  HappyHumpingPup 3 days ago
AAMs the best ally, if brought into full view on a TV masturdebate In plain sight seen by millions, and millions more online ad infinitum. Decades ongoing millions of AAMs chasing, grabbing, groping, grooming, kissing, fucking HOT adults.
AAMs not just consenting but DEMANDING – SeX on DEMAND! S.O.D.

And, always repeat Tom’s 1981 radical byword, ‘the emancipation of children’.

So, Tom, GO for a 2024 TV masturdebate and show millions of AAMs in plain-sight (fake media all unseen) to finally Truth NUKE antis for all time. WTF could they possibly say to former and current AAMs saying, “Fuck Victorian body-guilt. My modern mind, my body, my choice, my MAP – Mind yer Own!”

Lars Gustaf Adolf Ullerstam, born April 22, 1935, in Vanersborg, Sweden, is a psychiatrist, sexologist, and author best known for his 1964 book, De erotiska minoritertena (released in the United States in 1966 under the title, The Erotic Minorities.) In Sweden, Ullerstam was one of the most influential figures arguing for sexual liberation of the 1960s.

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup

I did a page on Ullerstam a while ago btw, if that’s of interest…


>As was pointed out in CSC Nusletter Vol. III No. 1 (April 1977) the greatest erotic minority consists of children. By an obvious symmetry, the liberation of children is the natural prerequisite and most powerful factor in MAP liberation. This is more important than all fringe sexual orientation groups.

On-point, pro-AAM LoliMAP Christian. Yet missing AAM Laddies lusting for HOT Wimmin or Men near-nude in ‘Family Media’, and elsewhere Worldwide, Webwize and WAY beyond?

In plain-sight unstoppable AAMs and pro-AAMs. Surprisingly missed by Newgon Jim, preDICKtably denied by mainstream Fake Media, or even BLOCKED by perverse pro-MAPs?

Meanwhile repeat radical Tom/Heretic TOC UK falsely jailed for correcting the corrupt public immoral mainstream 1981, “Emanicipate children”.

Last edited 29 days ago by HappyHumpingPup

Mr. Pup is clear here and correct – Adult Attracted Minors are the key, because the pedohysterics completely and cruelly deny the sexuality of AAM’s, then stigmatize them if they dare express themselves. The pedohysterics bizarrely desexualize what nature has sexualized; then they accuse others of doing the opposite. Pedohysterics are truly sick people, they are also jealous hypocrites who deny their own sexuality.

Idea – AAM’s should be interviewed via video chat en masse. Then, those videos, or one long video of all the interviews, should be posted to online repositories everywhere and encouraged to be shared. No CP, just pro-sexual opinions and stories told by willing AAM’s, no laws broken, pure free speech. The goal is to paint pedohysterics as cruel child abusers themselves, which they are no doubt.

The Men’s Movement will have allies. Nasty ageist feminists, male and female, are generally the same ones against all sex that isn’t mainstream state sponsored, which means at least 18, more towards 21, with no age gaps. Zoos and pederasts might disgust heterosexual men, but now that heteros have a taste of the same sexual oppression, some might realize that the sexual freedom of other fringe groups is now a prerequisite for hetero sexual freedom in the Anglosphere.


Surely everybody was an AAM?? They all wanted sex with pop stars etc? But now they change their mind??

Marco Antonio

I don’t think there is a clear ally

  • men’s movement – unclear discourse, not very eager to debate about sex, fascist ideas in some groups. Look at what is happening at the EU.
  • feminists – contradictory positions within feminists in other topics, more eager to debate but too protectionists in general
  • glbt – too concerned about the own public acceptance
  • MAPs – ostracized
  • AAMs – too busy trying not to make parents angry

Perhaps instead of focusing on a specific social group, it’s better to welcome anybody who wants to change stuff.


Trans may be allies of MAP. They have problems expressing themselves within the boundaries of their biological sex; MAPS have problems expressing themselves within the boundaries of their biological age.

Marco Antonio

I just discovered I’m a radqueer!


im an ephebophile with hebephilic tendencies. but people get confused

Marco Antonio

Oh, another alliance group to add: people into scratology stuff. Scratology is regarded as an « aberrant » behavior in sexual education documentary-like productions in Spain.


Some interesting ideas by John Money about urophilia and coprophilia can be read here (yes, that’s another heretical site):

Marco Antonio

Some understand « validity » as the identities covered by the « + » in « lgbtq+ ». But I’d say that most people understand « validity » as the full range of things that are ethically acceptable (valid) in sexuality. The article suggests the rejection of the validity discourse as something that can unite sexual minorities. I think it is a good idea. However, as somehow suggested in the article, I think that there are things that are not acceptable in sexuality, such as zoosadism and rape. Isn’t that a contradiction?

Another possible common ground could be the advocacy for the abolition of the philias chapter of the DSM-5. This infamous list puts the focus on the behavior of the individual (transvestism, voyeurism, and so on) further expanding stigma and guilt, rather than stressing on the cause for the individual’s distress (mainly: legal constraints, and social rejection).

By the way, the DSM-5 list, in the way it is designed right now, should include homosexuality, as there are still many people feeling distress for homophobia. Heterosexuality should also be included if there are men who feel bad for sexuallly (but not romantically) desiring women. People who cheat on their spouse? Very very socially distressing. Also on the list! Etc etc etc. Does that DSM-5 make any sense?


should include homosexuality, as there are still many people feeling distress for homophobia

Yeah, there is a pedophilic disorder , but no homophilic disorder. Shouldn’t people who have gay sex in prisons undergo treatment ? 🙂

Last edited 29 days ago by Leonerd

It seems even zoos dotn like us… i was twitter (wont call it x, musk is scum) . i was talking to a horse relations lady, and she didnt like map relations. i said but how u know horse can consent ? they cant talk? then she blocked me.


That is hilarious. Next time use a picture of Mr. Ed with the caption “Get away from me, lady!”


Dear, Warren, your contribution will remain part of the common MAP legacy. I hope in your next life you will find the fruits of your and our common struggle for the Youth/Map liberation.

Ed Chambers

It’s life Jim, but not as we know it.


RIP Warren Middleton.

A very based dude…


Two ‘alliance’ groups to add?

1) In plain sight (fake media unseen) millions of AAMs ogling, chasing, grabbing, groping, grooming fucking adult celebs; also adored by millions daily in all-age ‘family media’.

2) Largely unseen MasoMAPs. SeXy ’70s Bold MAP’s old pal War Hero MAP had a MasoMAP pal seen by a UK shocked ‘parky’ park-keeper playing with miniskirt giggling HOT Lolis he incited to dance on his supine body and stiff dick. The sharp parky noted the MasoMAP’s car-reg and called the cops who soon found the MasoMAP at home, but dismissed the harmless nut as, er, ‘harmless’.

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup

AAMs the best ally, if brought into full view on a TV masturdebate In plain sight seen by millions, and millions more online ad infinitum.

Decades ongoing millions of AAMs chasing, grabbing, groping, grooming, kissing, fucking HOT adults. .

AAMs not just consenting but DEMANDING – SeX on DEMAND!


Check, AAM BeatleManic Debbie CHASE!

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup
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