Old fuckers, daft twats – and horny kids

When some of my good friends would meet me, they would sometimes say, “How are ya, ya old fucker!” One night when my dad came home from work, I ran and greeted him by saying, “How are you, Dad, you old fucker!” This occasion marked the beginning of my sex education!

Half a century ago, when this anecdote about a preteen boy’s hilarious (or potentially disastrous) social blunder appeared in a pioneering book on the sex life of children, everyone knew you just didn’t talk to your father that way. But if you didn’t even know WTF the word “fuck” meant, as this one plainly didn’t, you were always going to be at risk of putting your foot in it, weren’t you?

Same thing happened to me. Within earshot of Dad at home I shouted out “What a daft twat!”, possibly at some clown on the telly. In an ominously solemn tone Dad asked where I had heard that word, and whether I knew what it meant. Of course, I hadn’t known what a “twat” was and found myself deeply embarrassed to discover it was a “rude” word for a lady’s “private parts”. Convinced of my innocence (aka ignorance), Dad simply said I was never to use the word again. And that was that.

As far as I can remember, that was the only occasion in my entire childhood when anything of a sexual nature was mentioned at home other than me being given the message in very early childhood that certain body areas should always be covered, and that words associated with them were forbidden. My parents were very loving and I am sure I benefitted hugely from growing up as part of a stable family. But the sexual reticence of their era was not at all helpful.

Such thoughts must have occurred to Floyd M. Martinson, whose book Infant and Child Sexuality: A Sociological Perspective, appeared in 1973. It includes the quotation above as part of its extensive use of interviews with young adults about their early sex lives and its social context. I intended to blog about his work three years ago but found myself sidetracked into writing here about two other sex research pioneers of that era, Ernest Borneman and Carlfred Broderick. Prompted by our erudite regular commentator Prue Cordell, who asked at the time why I had left out Martinson, I have now finally managed to get back on track.

Floyd Martinson, farm boy and sociologist

So, let me tell you about the guy. Martinson was a professor of sociology for an astonishing 55 years, from 1945 until his death in 2000, at just one institution, Gustavus Adolphus College, Minnesota, a liberal arts college in his native state, associated with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. After his first couple of decades in the job he must have been seen as an institution in himself, part of the fabric of the place. Having also grown up and been educated entirely within the state, his local roots ran very deep. Like the college itself, he was a pillar of the Lutheran Church, with a stable family life from 1946 onwards when he married his wife Beatrice, a match that gave them five children. Such stability would have made him a man trusted enough to handle such a controversial research subject as child sexuality.

His apparent contentment to stay locally well grounded comes as no surprise when we learn that his youth had been spent on far less solid terrain, in the most literal sense. Born in 1916, he had been a farm boy in hard times, when agriculture in the Midwest was hit by a devastating double whammy: the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl, a drought era lasting well over a decade, with dry, windy conditions that blew away the topsoil. Many will be familiar with the tragic story, as I was, from John Steinbeck’s novel The Grapes of Wrath and its film version, but I had no idea things were bad as far north as Minnesota. As Martinson writes in a memoir:

I remember the air was filled with dry-as-dust topsoil blowing across the fields, depositing itself like snow drifts along field fences. Great balls of tumbleweeds rolled across the dry, crusty bottom of what had been Buffalo Lake. I remember a day when we were cutting our sparse crops. Dad was riding the tractor, the lugs kicked up clouds of dust, and I was riding the binder, sweat and dust covering me. Grasshoppers, attracted by the salt and sweat, sat on my back and ate holes in my shirt. It was a time that left a lasting impression on a teenager.

Thanks to the hardscrabble living, it was touch and go whether he ever went to high school, never mind college. After school he had to put in four more years on the farm before majoring in economics at a small college. While there, he discovered that rural sociologists were in demand. Later, he would graduate in that subject from the University of Minnesota.

His move towards researching the sociology of sex was gradual, starting with his PhD thesis at Gustavus Adolphus on rural-to-urban migration, when he noticed that students who married soon after graduating from high school had low scores on social and emotional adjustment, a finding that contradicted the conventional wisdom of the day. He wrote an article about it for the American Sociological Review titled “Ego deficiency as a factor in marriage”, which quickly drew the attention of the New York Times. Their scandalised reporter demanded to know what he had got against marriage!

From this experience, and from student feedback, he realised there was a keen interest in marriage and family life, which he accordingly began to focus on in his teaching and writing, leading eventually to two books, Marriage and the American Ideal (1960) and Family in Society (1970). The focus on child sexuality came accidentally, as he puts it, after developing a course on the theme of “sexual culture and sexual socialisation in our sex-inhibited society”. By this time he was a director of the Lutheran Social Service, which was much exercised with the problem of schoolgirls falling pregnant. As a research method, Martinson engaged his undergraduate students as a volunteer army. They were sent out to ask “What is it like to grow up in your community?”, with the implicit task of finding out “What is it like to grow up sexually in your community?”.

The big breakthrough, though, came in connection with his students’ library research for essays dealing with subjects such as mate selection, marriage, divorce, reproduction, and cross-cultural differences. After a number of years, he says, “I introduced an alternative paper theme that literally changed my professional interest. I suggested to students that they could write on some aspects of their own life experience, which they would describe and analyse utilising concepts introduced in the course.” To his surprise, many wrote on sexual experiences that had occurred very early in their lives.

Thus began his gathering of over one thousand sex histories, a sample of which were drawn on thematically in Infant and Child Sexuality, along with case material from interviews with 200 unmarried mothers, and in the general community. He also drew on previously unpublished data from Alfred Kinsey’s interview notes on a sample of children two to five years of age.

Dustbowl devastation: bone-dry soil and ruined crops on a Minnesota farm in the 1930s. Photo: Minnesota Historical Society

The conceptual framework of the book is sociological, focusing on the affectional and sexual encounters of the young with others, including adults. He noted that most of the earlier work in the field had been number crunching, reporting on the incidence of various sexual phenomena. And most surveys in question had been about teenagers rather than younger children. He sought to rectify this imbalance, and instead of presenting lots of statistics (“quantitative” research), his work would be more “qualitative”. Surveys designed to discover hard facts and figures, he  said, are valuable in showing how prevalent various kinds of behavior are; but, taken alone, they oversimplify the picture. They tell us little or nothing about how the subjects, in this case the children, define and experience their situations.

You need to take a good look at such experiences and how children see them. Only by taking their responses into account does it become possible to think intelligently about public policy on such matters as sex education, in the home and at school, and when/whether permissive or restrictive approaches to sexual behaviour will work. Without such information it is all too easy to focus on misconceived questions based on premature theorising, leading to poor quality quantitative research. The latter can give the illusion of being based on “hard facts” while actually being very misleading.

One such weak theory, Freud’s notion that sexuality is dormant, or “latent” in the prepubertal years from 7-11, is significantly undermined by the rich narratives of sexual feelings and behaviours that Martinson sets forth from children in this age bracket, although he divides key age ranges slightly differently. His book has three main sections, separately considering Infancy (0-2); Early Childhood (3-7); and Preadolescence (8-12).

Commonly, of course, children’s preteen sexual feelings are denied far more comprehensively than Freud ever did, famous as he was for advancing a theory of infantile sexuality. In this regard, Martinson could hardly ask babies to describe their experiences, and adults typically remember nothing at all of their own infancy. As with all his three sections, though, he drew extensively on all available sources of information, including mothers’ observations, and earlier formal research from such figures as Kinsey, Broderick and Glenn Ramsey. The result was a book that brought new and earlier material together in a compelling way.

Boy babies, he noted, are sometimes born with erections, “and there is no reason to believe that the capacity for such marked physiological response develops any later in girls”. In a study of nine male babies of ages three to twenty weeks, penile erection was observed at least once daily in seven of the nine. Individual responses varied greatly from five to forty erections per day.

Pelvic thrust movements in male and female infants eight to ten months old “appear to occur as part of an expression of affection in which the baby holds onto the parent, nuzzles the parent, and rapidly thrusts and rotates the pelvis for a few seconds”. Kinsey, he noted, reported one record of a seven-month-old infant and records of five infants under one year who were observed to masturbate. Twenty-three girls, three years or younger, appeared to reach orgasm in self stimulation. Kinsey’s unpublished interview data includes a sample of two-year-olds and their mothers. One mother reported that her son used to rub against a doll’s head to masturbate. Another reported that her son’s masturbating was deliberate, prolonged, and accompanied by an erection.

The first evidence of love appears in Early Childhood (3-7), Martinson tells us. Based on work by Sanford Bell, it is characterised as “spontaneous, profuse, and unrestrained”. Bell gives many examples. It is tempting to quote lots of them, but I’ll stick with just the one:

My nephew of three manifested an ardent passion for a small girl of about the same age. He followed her about with dog-like persistence. Being an only child he was very selfish, never sharing anything with other children. But Bessie became the recipient of all his playthings. His hoard of treasures was laid at her feet. Nothing was good enough for her, nor could he be dressed fine enough when she was around. On one occasion, a large boy picked Bessie up to fondle her, whereupon her jealous lover seized a hatchet and attacked his rival. He imperiously demanded a dollar from me one day in order that he might buy Bessie and have her “all for his own”. He is now six, and loves her as much as ever.

Innocent passion? We would be innocent to think so in the light of recollections by Martinson’s informants. These include reports of specifically sexual feelings in very early childhood, in both individual and social contexts, as seen in these three examples:

The first time I can recall having a sexually pleasing sensation was when I was around three or four. I remember feeling very proud of what I had learned (how to masturbate) and the strange sensation it aroused.

**

My neighbourhood environment has always been quite permissive which enabled me (a boy) the time and freedom to become the finest five-year-old doctor in my neighbourhood. I clearly remember associating my penile erections with examination of the next door girl’s anatomy.

**

In first grade, I can remember my first actual erection. I was sitting on my teacher’s lap, but was neither ashamed nor embarrassed at the small bulge in my pants.

As hinted in the last of these examples, and as Martinson acknowledges, the child is sometimes the initiator or provoker in child-adult sexual encounters, and “may seek a form of satisfaction which is given through an affectional-sexual encounter.”

Also hinted at here (the “quite permissive” environment of the five-year-old “doctor”), social circumstances count for a lot. The latency theory of later preadolescent childhood, to the extent that any facts support it, probably just reflects older kids’ sensible caution in making sure potentially disapproving adults do not see what they are up to – inhibitions that will only have strengthened in our present era, obsessed as it is with “protecting” children, even from their own sexuality.

Christ Chapel, Gustavus Adolphus College, funded by Lutheran congregations and dedicated in 1962. The college is named after Sweden’s 17th century king, Gustavus Adolphus the Great. Around a quarter of Minnesota’s population is of Scandinavian origin. Floyd Martinson conducted research in both Norway and Sweden.

Not that even the 1970s were as relaxed on the subject as is sometimes suggested. It is no accident that Martinson found publishers for his many other books but not this one, which was published privately after being turned down by 29 firms. As he wryly notes, “All thought that it should be published, but each thought that some other publisher should have the privilege!” Even this book made it eventually, though, when it was brought out in 1994 as The Sexual Life of Children, with extensive revisions in the light of further research. This time it was taken on by a venerable old (established 1612) publishing house, Bergin and Garvey, suggesting that the author’s national, and indeed international, reputation had been secured by this time.

This is confirmed by the fact that in 1980 he was honoured with a prestigious Fulbright Research Scholarship to study child sexuality in the more liberal climate of Sweden, and among several major awards he won was the Alfred C. Kinsey Award in 1988.

The emphasis today has been on Martinson’s personal story; my introduction of his research data has been relatively constrained. The latter can be explored more thoroughly in a free full-text PDF of Infant and Child Sexuality here.

 

YOUR PAEDO TEACHER MIGHT BE YOUR BEST ONE

The last time I had occasion to mention Giles Coren, humourist and restaurant critic, was over his trenchant and constructive analysis early this year of childhood obesity and what to do about it. Now, in another of his regular columns for The Times, he has cautiously ventured onto more dangerous childhood terrain, with a significantly less than totally damning view of paedophilia.

The theme of the column a couple of weeks ago was the start of the new school year. Headed “Everything you need to know about big school”, the article (paywalled, but it is available in full at Wayback Machine) gave jokey advice to kids, including about teachers who might have the hots for them. It was couched as a warning, as you might expect, but note the relative gentleness of the tone:

The teacher you think is a paedophile is a paedophile. It is not necessarily anything to be afraid of, but don’t be shy to believe it of them. My favourite teacher, who taught me how to write but also touched me in unwelcome ways and was the subject of insinuating graffiti and chants, was later, to nobody’s surprise, convicted of (quite minor) sexual offences against children. Indeed, both my children have already had a favourite teacher arrested, charged, convicted and defenestrated for (again, quite minor) sexual offences. Lots of schools have no paedophiles at all any more. But some do. It’s just a fact of life. So if there is a general consensus among the kids that that teacher is a wrong ‘un, he probably is.

Tell me I’m wrong if you want, but it looks to me as though he thinks a “wrong ‘un” might still be worth having as a teacher even if they are a bit naughty – indeed, they might be preferred to the less friendly “well behaved” types!

 

YOU CAN’T TRUMP THIS FOR TOPICAL RELEVANCE

Any MAP who is keen to know the track records of Kamala Harris and Donald Trump on sex offender policy ahead of the US presidential election would do well to read a new article from the Percy Foundation.

Titled “The Cop vs. the Predator: Harris, Trump, and the Politics of Sexual Menace”, the piece is remarkably even-handed, with deep analysis and extensive sourcing.

While I am no fan of Trump, and I am sure I would never vote for him if I had American citizenship, any enthusiasm I might have been able to find for Harris as an improvement on doddery Joe Biden was not exactly enhanced by this read.

As for Trump’s record, we all know his reputation as a groper, but not everyone will be aware of his endorsement of Tim Ballard, the discredited former CEO of the anti-sex trafficking organisation “Operation Underground Railroad” (OUR), whose outrageous witch hunting was responsible (along with another such organisation) for the unjust incarceration of three Dutch former MAP activists, as reported by HTOC.

The article also presents an interesting theory as to why Trump’s evangelical Christian supporters do not appear to be all that bothered by the ex-president’s own record as a convicted felon.

 

TERRIBLE NEWS FROM ECUADOR

Former MAP activist Marthijn Uittenbogaard and his partner Lesley, arrested in June 2022 in Ecuador and sentenced on baseless charges to 10-year prison terms after a vicious campaign of lies orchestrated by Tim Ballard (see above), were hoping for better news from their long delayed appeal.

Sadly, it was not to be. As reported on Newgon, the appeal was heard a few days ago, when the trial judge’s ruling was upheld. According to the lawyers, the court did not listen to their defence.

I will not dwell at length on the horrific back story, which has been regularly updated at the Newgon link. I will just briefly note that these guys have been subjected to many episodes of extreme violence, against a constant background of terror and deprivation; half starved to death and brutalised, they have been clinging on in nightmarish, hellhole conditions.

As for Ballard, who ought to have been utterly discredited, he appears to be carrying on as though nothing has happened – rather like Trump following his criminal convictions. The one bit of good news (or better than horrific, at least) is that Marthijn and Lesley were transferred at their own request last month to an “LGBTQ-friendly” department, which should in theory be safer. The full Newgon reports are quite lengthy. For a quick catch-up, see the following dated entries:

Ballard and OUR:             17 Sep 2023; 31 Jul 2024

Prison conditions:           9 Jan 2024; 13 Jan; 21 Jan; 11 Mar; 21 Mar; 28 Jul; 15 Aug

Legal:                                    22 Jun; 3 Jul; 12 Jul; 15 Jul; 9 Sep; 13 Sep

 

 

 

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Perhaps you’ve reported this and I missed it, but last year emails were leaked from Tim Ballard’s operation acknowledging that they were engaged in entrapment-like behaviors, specifically in connection with the set-up of Dutch MAP activist Nelson Maatman, who’s still hanging on in a brutal Mexican jail two and a half years later. I can share them with anyone who’s interested.

‘Age of Consent’ at 40. Bronski Beat ‘Age of Consent’ 40th Anniversary, Forty years ago Bronski Beat released Age of Consent, a record so loud and proud that it become an era-defining moment of gay liberation. We look back at the record’s music, legacy and politics with novelist Matt Cain and Laurie Belgrave, who has produced the new ‘The Age of Consent 40’ concert at the Southbank Centre.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0023y9m

(So, AAM/MAP musos where’s the AAM-MAP BIG Hit “SPORT for all SEX for all” ?)

Selling over 80,000 copies during its opening week in June 1998, “Because We Want To” made Billie Piper the youngest artist to debut at number one on the UK Singles Chart, aged 15.

@jessieblakey1360 1 day ago
Playing this to my 2 year old daughter used to love this when i was a little girl and its seems she loves it too! Turned 30 this year and this is still a banger x

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DEwY76PvWA

[MODERATOR: It’s good to cut some slack for newer or less frequent commentators here. On that basis, I am going to let N/A’s contribution below pass through moderation, even though it is neither concise nor coherent; qualities which, along with courteous – no free pass for newbies on discourtesy – are the main standards here. N/A is courteous even to the point of humility, modestly admitting at the end that his comment might not be useful. Is it? Is there a theme that readers can interpret or make use of? I’ll let you be the judge. But keep it short next time, N/A, or you will be chopped.]

I have come to the conclusion that the only way to goodwill among the rest of society isn’t possible under both this economic system-MAP rights isn’t happening with the current money spent by pharmaceutical and prison lobbies-and also that the fact that most people assume MAPs are all rapists and the strongest case against us is personal experiences. While we have no control over the actions of others who are MAPs or not, and that regardless of how offensive it is to assume that or to call all sexual interactions between MAPs and underage partners rape or to assume MAPs are only out to rape, this still matters in people’s perception and it is in our best interest as people who love the young and to future MAPs to ensure abuse doesn’t happen. The only way to go through with this is in part societal education and in part socialization

for societal education it goes further than sexual education. While explaining to people as soon as they are able to about sexuality; the purpose and seriousness of the act, that not only is sexuality a spectrum and range based on genders and sex but there is a spectrum and range based on age, how to actually do it, and risks of STDs and sexual assault. This way they are educated on who they are as well as understand what the risks are.

this alone cannot be enough, as many minors and especially children are more gullible, and therefore there must be a societal shift from the top-down. The society we live in must be made to be more trusting than the one we live in now. A sort of contract between us and others must be. We need to tell different groups that our rights will ensure their own benefit. Informing people that ranges of attraction by age exists and such a thing is normal would lead to conversations that would not pair up incompatible couples as well as informing children that they are not “the one” or at least that their sexual attractiveness isn’t for forever. Telling children that they are viewed upon sexually as early as they can understand it can help ensure that they are better equipped to avoid being sexually assaulted, even by something as small as an adult being very eager to engage in supposedly non-sexual contact. The more comfortable our society is with sexuality the more possible it is for a better world. Minors that are inexperienced can understand what is happening to them and are comfortable sharing that fact to trusted others, and MAPs have experience on gaining people’s trust as well as avoiding harming minors. The most difficult part is explaining that abolishing the age of consent would lead to MAPs who are qualitatively better as a whole than those who had to hide their sexualities, who were scarred by our current brutal society, and whom are now better than those before it. The damage of some who hurt would lessen due to their being less of that already small number of individuals. But to do that is to gain people’s empathy and to have good PR, and I have both poor skills and poor personal reception.

im not sure what I wrote is even useful, or just things we already know. Oh well

Thanks for the contribution.. sadly i have the attention span of a goldfish. And im usually not concise or coherent. Its great to get stuff off your chest though, it is helpful to ones mental health. I have a lot on my mind at the moment. But dont we all? The constant judging of society is the main problem….Currently being ganged up on on Youtube by rainbow people who think im weird for liking teens. Sigh..

>in people’s perception…it is in our best interest as people who love the young and to future MAPs to ensure abuse doesn’t happen. The only way to go through with this is in part societal education and in part socialization.

Then, now, always Anglo ‘people’s perception’ is only what they’re told/brainwashed to believe by unelected corporate fake Media for ratings profit, power & control over their kept dumb shallow ignorant masses. Always respect true, not fake, victims. Include millions of true victims of fake media.

Re-check, wayback Anglo Victorian Gay victim visionary genius Wilde, 1891, “The 4th Estate is now the only estate, it has eaten up the other three. The Lords Spiritual say nothing, the Lords Temporal have nothing to say, the Commons has nothing say and says it. We are DOMINATED by journalism.”

Thought provoking, I would add –

What is needed are an army of activist experts (like Martinson, Rind, etc) to overwhelm the public with research that clearly and proudly concludes that children have the mental capacity to consent to sex. And to a lesser but still relevant extent, smoking, drinking, working, etc, the same as adults, as it was throughout history.

Children, and certainly post-pubescents, know they are sexual, those of us who are honest about our childhood of course remember all kinds of sexual feelings and activities, and we also remember manipulating others and telling lies when it worked in our favor. Aka – when a girl claims to be traumatized by consensual sex because she is underage, she is doing so with an ulterior motive that benefits her like attention/money/convenience.

Experts working explicitly against the infantilization program of the Anglosphere; it’s easy, fast, and cheap to get credentials now through online education programs…

HOT lil Loli AAM Luvs BIG MAP King El !

Kwote, “Thang U verrr murrrch.”

https://www.facebook.com/reel/831123929191870

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup

Young & Olde fuckas, tight twats – Horny Lolis!

Quote, Rockin ’50s teen young fucka Bold MAP’s earliest tight-twat Horny HOT Loli kissin cussin cuntry cousin, 11, in a quiet park, “It’s called FUCKING! Shall we try it?”

Quote, SeXy 70s older fucka Bold MAP’s piggback tight-twat preteen HARD HUMPING Horny AAM HOT Loli, 9 in a quiet park, “Wot’s it like to have a FUCK?”

Wot would an older fucka Kind MAP do??

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup

Back again as I just discovered a much better (more positive-seeming on first skim) piece by Horii, a book chapter:

Mies Grijns and Hoko Horii, ‘When do ‘children’ become ‘adults’?: Transitions in children’s rights and child marriage, in Children’s rights in crisis Multidisciplinary, transnational, and comparative perspectives, ed. by Salvador Santino F. Regilme (Manchester University Press, 2024)

Here’s an early passage I added to Newgon:

In Indonesian society, children are no longer considered children when they marry, because then they start their own family and have to carry responsibilities as a husband/wife or father/mother. The transition is not just about physical age, but also includes mental maturity—dakil baligh. We find that there is a similar concept in global children’s rights discourse: evolving capacity. The idea is to acknowledge that children are and should be able to decide on their own according to the development of their cognitive capacity.2 It proposes to assess the decision-making by children not just in terms of physical age, but also in terms of cognitive capacity that gradually develops and individually differs. This principle is crucial for the realization of the rights of young adolescents who are transitioning into “adults.” However, the current global children’s rights/human rights regime tends to lean toward a paternalistic and protectionist approach (Cantwell 2016; Hopgood 2017) by setting a threshold between children and adults, and their cognitive ability, of eighteen years of age. Within the current regime, this principle of “evolving capacity” is difficult to implement in practice, and is perhaps the most unfulfilled aspiration in children’s rights (Lundy 2007; Shier 2001; Tisdall 2017; Tobin 2015; Varadan 2019). We might say this is a silent crisis of rights for young adolescents.

In case posters here have not seen it, here’s a somewhat explosive open access article published recently, that I somehow forgot to post here despite seeing lots of discourse about it. Most people I’ve seen discuss it, believe Michael Salter to be the driving force behind this article, as he is an academic crusader who buys into many common anti-MAP talking points and conspiracies. Particularly relevant here, the idea that the UK once saw “state support for pro-pedophile advocacy in England”, citing David Pilgrim’s book, Child sexual abuse: Moral panic or state of denial? (2018). Pilgrim is himself an academic crusader, and this claim is very likely meant to imply the conspiracy theory that PIE received funding from the British Home Office (they wish lol)!

I have no doubt in my mind that professional critiques of this article are forthcoming in future… There’s a thread discussing it on MU: https://forum.map-union.org/viewtopic.php?t=327 For the article itself, check out, Christina Farmer, Michael Salter, and Delanie Woodlock, A Review of Academic Use of the Term “Minor Attracted Persons”, in Trauma, Violence and Abuse (September 2024).

Abstract

Although it originated within online pro-pedophile groups, the term “minor attracted person” (MAPs) has been adopted by some academic researchers as a neutral and non-stigmatizing alternative to the term “pedophile.” The transferral of this term from pedophile advocates to academic scholarship has been highly controversial. Claims that the use of the term “minor attracted people” normalizes or endorses pedophilia deserve closer scrutiny. This paper is based on a rapid evidence review of all peer-reviewed papers between 2015 and 2023 that used variants of the term “minor attracted” in their title and/or abstract. After screening, 30 studies were identified for review. Our analysis took a thematic approach to understanding the construction and use of the term MAPs in this scholarship. The analysis found that the term MAPs was operationalized in different and contradictory ways, however, the literature broadly agreed that MAPs constitute an oppressed sexual minority who are subject to undue stigmatization and discrimination. We point to the similarities between this sympathetic framing of MAPs and the political goals of the pro-pedophile advocacy groups that created the term MAPs, and from which many MAPs studies recruit their research participants. The review concludes that, in the absence of adequate self-reflexivity and awareness of bias, academic collaborations with pro-pedophile groups can produce work that minimizes the risk and harm of child sexual abuse and has the potential to delegitimize child sexual abuse prevention and treatment efforts.

Last edited 1 month ago by Prue

New open access article from Hoko Horii: Law’s drawing line: Legal discourse of consent in child sexual abuse cases in Japan, in Children and Society.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/chso.12877

I won’t say it’s great, awe-inspiring and revolutionary, but it’s reasonable and balanced all things considered… [Thanks to Mastodon user Fragment for sharing; stay strong out there and thanks for all you do…] Quotes from Hoko:

Can a child truly understand the implications of making a complaint about a sexually abusive act without understanding the meaning of sexual acts themselves? The apparent inconsistency in the judicial interpretation of a child victim’s maturity and capacity suggests that the behaviour of adolescents is predominantly subjected to adult perspectives, framing and moral judgements.

[…]

I argue that the age of consent laws, particularly amid the recent trend of raising the age, focuses solely on protecting negative freedom (freedom from sexual violence). By centring on this protective function, the law overlooks another aspect of freedom—positive freedom (freedom to sexuality). The legal discourse hardly recognizes this positive freedom concerning adolescent/child sexuality and is increasingly restrictive in that regard. The high threshold of age of consent laws, coupled with severe punishment and arbitrary implementation, limit positive freedom and result in being used to regulate and control adolescents’ sexuality.

I just want to say a big up to this mother, hopefully one day more parents will realise like her that their children can make decisions for themselves and as you all can see their relationship has survived into a long lasting marriage as we heretics know that children can consent.

22-Year-Old Marries 14-Year-Old | Wayback Wilkos – YouTube

14 year olds are tried as adults in america. but u get jailed for life for taking photo of 17 year olds. america is very twisted and disturbed. 14 yr olds are adolsecents anyway

Its not just American society that is backward, in the UK the age of criminal responsibility is 13 that’s right 13 and according to UK society a child is able to decide weather or not they want to commit a crime ie a Sex Offence but when it comes to making a consensual decision like having sex with an adult all of a sudden they are completely innocent and lack the mental capacity to do so.

By the way Tom have you changed your email address because I tried to contact you a couple of days ago about something and you didn’t get back to me?

I got the info from someone I was chatting to in the past but they may have been wrong as the old differences I thought that was something you where willing to put behind you just like I did?

Yup its 10 so james bulgers killers wernt innocent and people want them killed. but philip schofield and huw edwards victims were innocent of course.

I may have got have got the age of criminal responsibility wrong but my main point is that if a child commits a sexual offence to either an adult or another child then they know what they are doing, if they have a consensual sexual relationship with another child then both parties know what they are doing but when they have a consensual relationship with an adult then all of a sudden they they are seen as diminished responsibility. If children can’t consent like society says they can’t then surly by their own flawed logic then a child must not be able to consent when they commit a cohesive sexual act on someone either cos apparently (again not my words societies words) they have no idea what they are doing when they do anything of a sexual nature.

See the paradox, it just doesn’t make sense.

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Kind adults guide curious tots to potentially risky – Risk-Free and FILMED – Fun SKATING & SeX!!

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Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup

For anyone who’s not read this incredibly positive, down-to-earth, and non-sensationalist article, check out: Amanda H. Littauer, Queer Girls and Intergenerational Lesbian Sexuality in the 1970s, in Historical Reflections, 46:1 (2020), 95-108.

After far too long a delay, it’s finally available on Sci-hub for the world to see. Happy days!

>Queer Girls and Intergenerational Lesbian Sexuality in the 1970s

Late SeXy ’70s observant Bold MAP once saw a group of two wimmin with three HOT Lolis exiting a night time McDonalds and crossing a busy road. One woman scooped up one HOT Loli circa 6yo and hurried to the far curb near to Bold MAP, where the Lez MAP Woman close murmured to the Lez AAM HOT Loli, “Let’s have a BIG Kiss now before the others see us.” And they did!!

Last edited 1 month ago by HappyHumpingPup

I’ve just discovered a site that is so incredibly based, that you might want to add it to the blog roll next to Newgon, IPCE etc.

A very professional-looking blog site called Human Stupidity, where they criticize what they see as just that. Loads and loads of thoughtful posts which make reference to Rind et al., Susan Clancy, and even more incredibly, being willing to argue that the viewing of CP images is not in itself harmful, i.e. ‘re-victimizes’ the younger person (even if they’re dead or fictitious?)… Kudos to the author for putting a contrary and evidence-based perspective out there.

A potential caveat for some readers is that the arguments focus on teenagers and adolescents, not ‘children’ as in pre-pubescents. If you’re okay with that, you’ll probably enjoy reading their posts. Also, they seem like good introductory pieces…

E.g. https://human-stupidity.com/stupid-dogma/teenage-sexuality/the-child-sex-trauma-myth-1-you-must-be-a-pedophile-if-you-defend-child-porn-and-pedophiles

Thanks to MU posters for sharing…

(Also wow, Libsoftiktok and Gays Against Groomers tweeted about MU: getting noticed by the big names)!

Linsey dawn mckenziwe happily got her huge melons out at 16 in the uk and is perfectly fine today. even if she was 15 she would have been fine

The “Human Stupidity” site has not published any article for the last year and a half. Articles on the stupidity of paedo-scare are a minority, and not very original. There are many others attacking the “Left” and “Black Lives Matter”, denying racist police violence, or even defending racism.

What is the largest age difference in marriage for any famous people or celebrities? What was it and why did they marry that person?

The legendary actor Anthony Quinn was 70 when he met Kathy Benvin, aged only 23. She went from being his secretary to his wife. She said she had an idea of seventy being this age where people “sit in a chair and more or less wait to die…” Then she met Quinn in a tracksuit after he went jogging, telling her: ”My life is a mess. I’m painting something, I’m going to do a play and I’m making a movie and I’m writing a script and I need somebody to help me.”

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=549196631000474&set=a.170697792183695

New book out from publisher Arcadian Dreams, https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/The_Book_of_Beautiful_Boys_(book)

By complete chance, after thinking I’d seen every 70s / 80s queer theorist who’d made supportive statements about age-gap sex contact, I stumbled on another. Not to jinx it, but I can see Reduxx writing a piece on this guy, as they’re very overtly pro-trans (transsexual in their 1970s terms) and also supportive towards paedophilia. They pretty much embody what I take to be Reduxx’s worst fears, even though this person is long dead.

I did a relatively quick deep dive, took a bit of time to understand the context of relevant passages and what the hell they’re on about in amongst the dense verbiage of critical theory speak, and came up with a page that has all the relevant links and citations. See https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Mario_Mieli

A really pleasant read about them that I draw on for this entry, can be read here: https://sfbaytimes.com/mario-mieli-homosexuality-humanity-and-liberation/

What, no girls?!

>To be fair, that probably is a mistake on my part. I am almost certain that in the time and place that this guy lived, you’d be almost certain to find some appraisal of the beauty of girls. If he praised the beauty of women, he probably didn’t stick to praising MILFS – that would be pretty unusual historically I’d have thought. So yes, I’ll do some quick searching sometime.

That page is basically meant to be a record of the book’s existence and the significance of its author, as well as a small free advertisement for a book that’s just been released.

Then there are the pansexuals, who go for the full set: men and boys, women and girls.

This is a more correct description of pansexuality than the way “progressives” describe it.

They describe it as a preference for any gender and gender identity, but chronophilic and zoophilic preferences are excluded. In other words, it’s not true pansexuality

But Bey apparently says, “No, I’m not greedy. Three out of the four is quite enough, thank you.”

I very much doubt this. The Newgon page charactises Fazil Bey as “a famous Ottoman poet who depicted the beauty of men, boys and women”, but supplies no evidence for his attraction to men; the only link it supplies (by clicking on the poet’s name) is to the Wikipedia page. But the Wikipedia page is obviously just a piece of gaywashing, listing his book on boys as “The Book of the Beautiful [Men]” (sic).

“Some mistake, surely?”

Most surprisingly, as MAP activist Roger Moody pointed out (1986), Dworkin made supportive statements in her 1st published book Woman Hating (1974), in which she also supports the practice of incest and bestiality[18] in a future “androgynous” society, before turning militantly against age-disparate eroticism in later years. As for children, they too are erotic beings, closer to androgyny than the adults who oppress them. Children are fully capable of participating in community, and have every right to live out their own erotic impulses. In androgynous community, those impulses would retain a high degree of non-specificity and would no doubt show the rest of us the way into sexual self-realization. The distinctions between “children” and “adults,” and the social institutions which enforce those distinctions, would disappear as androgynous community develops.
https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Feminism

No it’s not a mistake. I know, I couldn’t believe it either until I saw it with my own eyes. Nope, in the 1970s, in her first book in 1974, Andrea Dworkin stated her view that in a future “androgynous society,” we’d see the floodgates of polymorphous perversity open, embodied par excellence by what they saw as the undifferentiated sexuality of children, showing us all just how free we could be. Embracing the fluidity, non rigidity of desire, she saw a positive future for a large amount of non-normative sexual behaviors, including bestiality, incest, and age gap sex.

It is very quintessentially 70’s thinking on sex and desire, and of course as you say Dworkin would dramatically switch gears in the 1980s when age gap sex became public enemy number one, absolutely demonized as a defacto act of rape and coercion for the younger party. I’m sure that news media, combined with most of her friends and feminist supporters who likely started seeing red with any mention of “children” and sex, would’ve led to immense pressure for her to conform and change tacks.

I found thes quotes through reading Roger Moody. Was surprised to see him cite Dworkin, checked it and was gobsmacked (a very common occurance reading about these topics). There’s a quote a that footnote on the Mieli page, but you can find slightly more quoted in a different footnote on the Feminism page. There’s a small dedicated section on Dworkin…

Truly, you learn fascinating things in MAP studies :p

>I found thes quotes through reading Roger Moody. Was surprised to see him cite Dworkin, checked it and was gobsmacked (a very common occurance reading about these topics).

(Petty ped-ant HHP err-ection, detect-shun, correc-shun, “occurrence’?

Roger Moody obit (quotes Tom too): “North London: Youth worker Roger Moody was a proud paedophile” 28th March 2023

https://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/crime/23416048.north-london-youth-worker-roger-moody-proud-paedophile/

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup

Interesting link I’d not seen before, so thanks for posting. I wonder what Tom,and anyone else who knew Moody on a more friendly and open basis, would make of this?

(I’ll update the page on Roger sometime soon, integrating this info with a more neutral framing)…

There’s a quote from Andrea’s book “Woman Hating” in a footnote at the bottom of Mario Mieli’s page. It looks like she had a more optimistic view of sexuality between children and adults before the 80s.

I tell people the flag represents bigotry, and when i tell them they dont support age gap relations, they say `so they shouldnt !!!! i was right.

Feedback…

https://www.boychat.org/messages/1632630.htm

Not sure as to the context, as I have not read the book.

Last edited 1 month ago by Strat/Jim

Interesting and nice to see some evidence here that people are reading these pages (good!)… As for gaywashing… Well, I don’t plan or purchasing or reading this book, and have virtually zero interest in the nitty-gritty of middle eastern history, so I made this page based on limited info. The book description, Wikipedia, and the few English pages I could find that were of any relevance.

At the time, I didn’t realize that Wiki added ‘[Men]’ at the end of the book title, so that is interesting feedback for sure. I assumed it was just another book. That perhaps there’s a separate book on the ‘Boy’ that wasn’t included on Wikipedia. But no, looking again, I it sounds like the BC posters are correct that Wiki is hiding the book’s real title. It seems likely, based on Wiki and Edmund, that the original title was either just Beautiful, or Beautiful Boys.

Cool stuff and helpful info from someone who claims to have read the book (awesome, good on you!). See what I mean about learning interesting things in MAP Studies? :p Will update the page reflecting this info soon…

Last edited 1 month ago by Prue

Another enemy for the list- Eamonn Holmes. Yes, he wants philip schofield thrown in front of a bus. How very Catholic of you, you sick man !

Decoding the Sex Trafficking Case Against Sean ‘Diddy’ Combs
https://reason.com/2024/09/18/decoding-the-sex-trafficking-case-against-sean-diddy-combs/

EXCLUSIVE: German Parliament To Review Petition To Make “Pedosexuality” A Legally Protected Identity
https://reduxx.info/exclusive-german-parliament-to-review-petition-to-make-pedosexuality-a-legally-protected-identity/

Thats a bit of an umbrella term, that include people who like 3 year olds and 17 year olds?

UK danger-kids CRIMINALS, 12, longterm caged for MURDERING man, 19, in park.

UK horny-kids aMused AAMs sharing pleasure with aMusing benign MAPs in parks; are VICTIMS??

Quote, SeXy ’70s horny AAM HOT Loli, 6, in secluded park, panties down pro-actively straddling Bold MAP (close watched by aMused wide-eyed friend HOT Loli, 5:), “Let’s do it! ..that’s no good, YOU get on top!!” Fumbling benign Bold MAP, “It’s no use lovely, you’re too small.” Undeterred wide-legged, laid back imaginative HOT Loli AAM, just had her bald-slit/clit brushed by a smooth BIG-Knob, “Will you LICK my bum?”

What would a benign MAP do??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Shawn_Seesahai

Why do you use so many unnecessary capital letters? It makes your comments harder to read.

>Why do you use so many unnecessary capital letters? It makes your comments harder to read.

Emotional emphasis: ‘map’, ‘aam’, ‘amusing’, ‘sexy’, ‘hot’, look so cold.

You might like to re-examine your policy and ask yourself why professional writers don’t adopt it. Do you think, for example, the novels of Jane Austen would really benefit from re-editing in that way?

>Do you think, for example, the novels of Jane Austen would really benefit from re-editing in that way?

Pre-Victorian uptite Anglo muddle-class Austen – WTF?!

HHP not a stuffy olde intelleckshul snob job. Just a bit o’ freeform fun son-sis, much loved by horny fun kids also giggling at leering Victorian professional nonce-sense-icals ‘Pussy Cat’ Ed Lear and Lew Carroll’s HOT smart Loli Alice de-noncing the Bully Red Queen & Co stiffs, quote, “You’re just a pack of cards!”

Gay Lear had the HOTS for a far older barrister judge and was known to introduce himself with a long pseudonym: “Mr Abebika kratoponoko Prizzikalo Kattefello Ablegorabalus Ableborinto phashyph” or “Chakonoton the Cozovex Dossi Fossi Sini Tomentilla Coronilla Polentilla Battledore & Shuttlecock Derry down Derry Dumps”, which he based on Aldiborontiphoskyphorniostikos.

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup

https://thefederalist.com/2024/09/26/activists-defend-canceled-minor-attracted-persons-camp-in-vermont-next-to-school/

More news coverage of Vermont MAP Camp. Quite detailed and makes MAPs look incredibly reasonable and decent, despite the occasional moralizing jab.

I knew this since I read it before, but Wilhelm Reich’s theory of “armour” and sexual repression, and recently read how sexual control basically moulds the person, into a ‘conformist subject’ and I found this quote from ‘ecologielibidinale’

“The suppression of the sexual activity of children and teenagers is the basic mechanism which produces the characterial structures adapted to political, ideological, economic control [… ] The repression of natural sexuality in the child, particularly of the genitality, makes the child apprehensive, timid, obeying, apprehensive in front of the authority, ‘nice’, ‘quiet’; it paralyses its rebellious tendencies, because the rebellion is associated with anguish; by inhibiting the sexual curiosity of the child, it causes a general confusion of its critical sense and of its mental faculties.” Wilhelm Reich.”

To me personally this how ‘neoliberalist-capitalist’ antilibidinal forces the person into a docile and controllable subject, ready for acceptance of labour extraction and social control.

Here is quote from the anarchist library:

“The state as machine of antiproduction operates to restrict, prevent or channel these flows of creative energy so as to preserve fixed social forms and restrict the extent of difference which is able to exist, or the connections it is able to form. Hence, states try to restrict and break down the coming-together of social networks by prohibiting or making difficult the formation of hierarchical assemblages” – Why Deleuze (still) matters. States, war-machines and radical transformation (2010).

Just a thought I had.

w**ipedia is finished for me. not only did they delete my non map related hard work, but they have articles like child abuse which is complete nonsense. on the positive side they do have articles on adolescents and hebe/ephebophilia which kind of contradicts the c abuse article…

Why do you think they deleted your non MAP work?

And yes, Wiki editing is a long march towards influence. You’d need to make lots of edits across non controversial pages to build up editor cred, before you’ll have a shot at transforming the big, emotional topics like CSA and Pedophilia which are tightly monitored, censored and framed negatively by Anti editors. You’ll see someone called “Squeakbox” who’s single handedly had enormous influence over these kinda of pages, keeping a more neutral/positive perspective at bay for many years…

Their pedanticness and power tripping. I used some very colorful language when they deleted my stuff! To be fair the pedophilia article is protected as people disagree with what they say but wikipedia is correct on this one . I replace the word child with adolescent quite often. Who is this squeakbox?

Musk complaining about pedophilesbeing released and people jailed for social media posts. Amazing how someone so rich can be so utterly stupid….

>Dust Bowl, a draught era lasting well over a decade,

English dear boy, “drought”?

Excellent article, there is so much long lost good research from saner times on prepubescent sex, it’s great to have it reintroduced into consciousness. Although that is not my preference, we are all in the same boat now if we appreciate any kind of youthful sexuality or independence, thanks to government tyrants and the grifting abuse industry.

MAP Camp made local TV news: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NJQO0ISTyI4

(Perhaps it’ll make news elsewhere as well, but I reckon media outlets will quiet down unless there’s a follow up to report on. In that vein, I hope Mythebe is okay as there’s a chance they’re being investigated by law enforcement. I’d assume they’ll be fine and it’d be a case of a quick chat and nothing more, but it might be distressing/scary and they might want access to his devices. Even if he thinks he has nothing to fear, just having national attention on his pseudonym could be terrifying and anxiety inducing in itself.

In theory, his real identity could easily be discovered via the camp owner, who would surely have his details as he has stayed there before and they appear to have been friends / friendly. There are of course, benefits to MAPs being out of the closet, and the fact he has repeatedly shown his face in videos could suggest that he isn’t particularly worried. I am thinking aloud and in all probability he’ll be A-OK other than mental anguish, but we should take a moment to wish him the best and applaud him for his attempt(s?) to build community via real-life connections.

I hope that he and Katie can meet each other IRL if they haven’t already. If they’re both out of the closet, there’s a level of interpersonal safety that comes with that, so I reckon they might as well hang out together and support each other. Maybe they can plan MAP Camp V.2, “MAP Camp Reduxx”! :p

Again, good luck to them! Stay strong out there!

i would love to put my opinions on reddit. but whenever ive made an account, anyhting i say gets taken down !!! even non map stuff.

That’s odd. Maybe your IP address is banned by Reddit?

they just assholes, i think.

The latest Teleio turned MAP scandal: Mohamed Al Fayed, the late Harrods owner whose son died with Princess Diana, has been posthumously accused of dozens of sexual assaults from more than 20 female ex-employees. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6x635wpjxo
Most women were aged 19-24 at the time, but some were younger at 15 or 16. As usual, no “children” here. No prepubescents. The language of “predator” and “sexual abuse” is used in much reporting on the case and, since the man in question died last year, I’d imagine he’ll have a hard time defending himself… His son is dead, and who else would want to take the heat of defending him even if they had reason to believe his innocence, have knowledge of mitigating factors, or exaggeration on the part of accusers. He may well have been an overzealous POS, but so hot is the media spotlight that we won’t be hearing a counter-narrative from anyone unless they’re ready to risk tanking their career. I suspect most naysayers, short of skeptics in comments sections, will stay silent…

———–

Here’s another case I forgot to mention: David Copperfield, magician extraordinaire. How interesting that on Wikipedia he is “described by Forbes as the most commercially successful magician in history.” As of 2006, he had sold 33 million tickets and grossed over US$4 billion, more than any other solo entertainer in history by a large margin. In 2015, Forbes listed his earnings at $63 million for the previous 12 months and ranked him the 20th highest-earning celebrity in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copperfield_(illusionist)#Sexual_assault_allegations

The Guardian newspaper created a piece on him that seems to have led to nothing. The most interesting part is the video embedded in the article, where we see a sour-faced female journalist watching his perfectly reasonable and fun magic shows involving young women. Clearly she sees things that aren’t there! :p It’s journalists like this that put me off becoming a journalist; the cruelty, the spin.

Quote:

Asked about the claims, Copperfield denied wrongdoing of any kind.

In written responses, his lawyers told the Guardian that he had “never acted inappropriately with anyone, let alone anyone underage”. They said a “truthful” depiction of Copperfield would describe his “kindness, shyness and treatment of men and women with respect”.

They said Copperfield was a champion of the #MeToo movement, which has encouraged women to come forward and tell their stories of alleged abuse.

They also said there had previously been “numerous false claims” made against him. […]

One woman, Carla* claimed that after meeting Copperfield at one of his shows in 1991, when she was 15, he began calling her late at night. She said she now feels she had been “groomed”. She said he sent her gifts and tickets to his shows. After she turned 18, she said, they had consensual sex. She said it was her first time.

Lawyers for Copperfield did not dispute that the magician had known the teenager, and said they had a wholly legal and consensual relationship that had lasted four years. The lawyers said he “strongly denies any suggestion of grooming or any other impropriety”.

Separately, Copperfield has faced scrutiny because of his association with Jeffrey Epstein, the indicted child sex trafficker who killed himself in prison in 2019.

Copperfield has, to this day, never been charged with a crime. But it’s interesting how it all comes back to Jeffrey Epstein: I wonder if upon investigation, you’d find that many of these women were extremely online during MeToo and subsequent years where QAnon and Epstein became big online? They began reinterpreting their past to find examples that could fit the framing of ‘grooming’ and ‘sexual abuse’?

Want a happy story where it’s very clear a woman lied? Check out baseball player Trevor Bauer who thankfully had the texts/messages necessary to defend himself. Check out the famous interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgU8oy3nSvM

Once I was looking at the page about the film Peter Pan 2003 (probably the hottest Peter of all time), and I was surprised that the producer of the movie was Mohamed al Fayed. In some publication about him, it was mentioned that after the divorce, his son stayed with him and continued sleep in father’s bed until he was 14 years old.

Amazing that this awful woman managed to con her way to a settlement of more than $300,000

>Nice work if you can get it! :p

Unfortunately, some of us have morals, so this line of work just isn’t an option!

It sounds like her and Carl Beech would be a match made in hell

Carl Beech found guilty of lying about Westminster paedophile ring | 5 News (youtube.com)

Just seen the new beetlejuice… jeffrey jones is of course absent.. but what did he do exactly? his character died in a horrific way. and im guessing this is a stab at jeffrey… i dotn think he did anything that bad? i could look it up, but of course id get angry.

thanks.. i was aware it was something along those lines.. i best not read. on top of that, people moaning about beetlejuice being obsessed with an underage person. ha, hes from the middle ages.. he doesnt know what that means, silly people.

beetlejuice being obsessed with an underage person

>Now I *have* to watch Beetlejuice. Didn’t know it was a based, MAP pilled (or Teilio cum MAP pilled) movie :p

I’ve never seen it before, but I have seen Tim Burton’s Sleepy Hollow film, where the main female love interest is an extremely neotenous, gorgeous young woman. Highly acclaimed, successful film. Clearly, the director knows what the public likes to see :p

when it was made i dotn think people made such a fuss about someone wanting to marry a teen….. but yes there was a map in it. jeffrey jones! sleepy hollow is ok, how old was christina ricci? oh no, ive just read this- Johnny Depp and Christina Ricci playing love interests in SLEEPY HOLLOW—a movie that was filmed and she was 18/19 and he was 35—was already super gross.

News: The planned ‘MAP Camp’ event, set to take place on the 19th of September at a site in Vermont, has been cancelled. Another way to say it, is that it never took place. Like a specter, its mere possibility haunts the minds of the online Right; the QAnoners, the ‘ok groomer’ cum anti-LGBTQers. There’s the usual suspects, the Twitterati of Andy Ngo and LibsofTikTok in particular, platforming this planned event and the response to it, for their large right-wing audience. It appears that backlash took place on Facebook in a big way too, so that’s novel and different at least :p

In the course of internet sleuthing, the narrative so far is that the event was being organized by Mythbe. He’s described by Andy Ngo as “a trans nonbinary Latinx leftist drag queen activist named Jonathan Peter Jacquez. Jacquez, of Barre, Vt., uses multiple aliases that include “MytheBe,” “Nathan” and “Linda Fromme.” How true any of that is, I don’t know…

He’s an MAP I remember from back in the days when Freespeechtube.org was still around, and Nelson et al. weren’t in an Ecuadorian prison being beaten black and blue… From my memory, Mythbe was a very positive, LGBTQ+ supportive young guy, who posted videos about him coming out to his parents, and even a recording of a therapy/counseling session. I remember thinking he seemed unhinged and deeply unwell, and perhaps he was – and understandably so – given the state of society for MAPs such as himself. With his identification as an anti-contact MAP (I believe this was the language he adopted), his comfort with the use of LGBT and ‘Queer’ language, it’s certainly believable to me that he’d have some involvement in MAP Camp. The project’s website had extremely inclusive, covering-all-your-bases language: terms like PoC (People of Color) and talk of ‘the community.’ I’ll assume this wasn’t intentionally used to play into Right-wing panic, but it still did the job…

Onto the camp itself, the Onion River Campground. Who is it owned by, and did they know a self-identified MAP was staying there? Well apparently the answer is… yes! Yes, the narrative I’m seeing is that the owner is one Jacquelyn Rieke, a sex-positive nudist who even mentioned Mythbe under that name in response to backlash, saying “While Mythbe has been at the campground in the past, I have prohibited any MAPs from coming here again.” They also apologized for using the term “sexual orientation” in an earlier online response. (See what I mean that people are privately more sympathetic than we might think? It’s under the pressure of stigma, fear, and bullying that people performatively (or actually over time) change their views).

Jacquelyn Rieke is also owner of Rabble Rouser, a chocolatier and bar in Montpelier, Vermont. She has past controversy after being targeted for years since 2013 from disgruntled ex-employees who allege “trauma” and “sexual abuse,” after seeing Rieke naked during their employment. I am not kidding, she is described as a “sexual abuser” and “predator” for merely being a nudist in her own home and not covering up in front of the employees.

Although nothing can surely heal the pain of these brave “survivors,” money will help, so this article tells me: https://vtdigger.org/2020/01/29/chocolatier-owner-fights-social-media-attacks-alleging-sexual-misconduct/

Shameless grifters…

————-

There’s news articles about MAP Camp, e.g. https://vermontdailychronicle.com/cops-at-local-school-following-public-concern-over-map-a-k-a-pedophile-camp/

https://abc45.com/news/nation-world/vermont-state-police-monitoring-campground-gathering-of-acutely-marginalized-pedophiles-minor-attracted-persons-map-camp

https://www.timesargus.com/news/local/vsp-looking-into-possible-event-for-minor-attracted-persons/article_1742bcf8-753a-11ef-8fd9-e34b4898e965.html

Boychat posts galore:
Mu’s Response: https://www.boychat.org/messages/1632036.htm
Wider discussion: https://www.boychat.org/messages/1631966.htm

If visibility was the goal, it’s visibility you got. The Mu Forum was tweeted by Andy Ngo, and the term MAP has been publicized further and linked to LGBTQ / progressive politics yet again.

The most positive thing, other than visibility which is debatable, have been the reasonable responses of authorities. Lt. Thomas Howard, Vermont State Police’s Berlin Barracks commander, responded that “people having certain thoughts does not necessarily mean that they’ve committed a crime.” Adam Silverman, public information officer for the Vermont State Police, wrote in an email Tuesday evening:

VSP is unable to monitor events or groups that engage in activities that courts have ruled are protected by the First Amendment regardless of the views those groups express. If we receive reports of criminal conduct, we would be able to open an investigation. That said, since being made aware of this potential event, VSP has been working to understand what this event might entail and how best to manage any security-related and safety-related concerns for those involved and everyone in the vicinity,” Silverman wrote.

I think they should plan a similar event for next year, but make it two events on the same day in different locations. One can be the real one with the details only given to those you trust, and see what happens… Good luck to them.

Made new page for the perhaps lesser-known academic https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Gary_Dowsett

Interesting tid-bit with a window into the not-so distant past.

(Will comment on this new blog soooon!) :p

They [surveys] tell us little or nothing about how the subjects, in this case the children, define and experience their situations.

Totally! There is an obsession these days about percentages and numbers. Case studies can often be much more valuable than surveys.

>Case studies can often be much more valuable than surveys.

Check, hypocrite MurDark’s UK top-sales SeX-Filled ‘FAMILY’ tabloid The SUN, Chief London Reporter Tom Wells, 2014, “Kids Aged 6 are Teacher Sex Abusers! Among a sharp rise in similar shocking cases, a six year old girl stood in front of a male teacher, lifted her skirt and boldly massaged herself through her underwear.”

And, SeXy ’70s Bold MAP watching TV with a HOT Loli’s Mom. When thru the wall ‘came’ a rapid knocking from HOT Loli, 10, bouncing her headboard hard while wild wanking in bed, which smiling Bold Map then pulled clear. And naeve Mom asked “What WAS she up to?” Later, nightdress HOT Loli’s long legs languished on Bold Maps’ HOT lap with her bare foot beneath his dressing gown twitching his BIG Bare Lump as she boldly passed him a ‘My Little Pony’ HOT note, “I wish my foot was my fanny!”

And, 21st Century natural self-made C.P. by body-proud guilt free phone-porn-in-their pockets modern kid as young as four. Pro-active modern Horny Kids numbers GROWING WorldWide beyond all control of ancient Anglo Victorian ‘Sex Laws’.

“Four-year-olds investigated by police in England for sexting.”

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/30/thousands-of-children-under-14-have-been-investigated-by-police-for-sexting

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup

Indeed, interesting cases to study.

>Indeed, interesting cases to study.

Or ignore by gutless fake Media in deep denial even of celebs rightly claiming as AAMs they were aMused not aBused. E.G. UK TV-Star Dale Winton, 2002, “My Story…”From age twelve I had pro-active sex independently with two attractive teachers, one female the other male. It wasn’t ‘abuse’ I thoroughly enjoyed it. They helped me decide that I was more Gay than straight.”

https://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Story-Dale-Winton/dp/0099443155

Victim MAP, 27, gets 85-120 years for NO CONTACT ‘crimes’ in U$A/UptiteSickAssholes!!!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/nebraska-man-high-school-teenage-girls-b2614583.html

Moll’s book has been digitised on Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/28402

Im not sure why christian countries treat people so badly??

>Im not sure why christian countries treat people so badly??

Be assured, 4-centuries ongoing on 5 continents post Reformation of convenience not conviction. Fake Bible anti-Christ Anglos are History’s biggest liars, denyers, self-justifyers, thugs, thieves, cowards, mass murderers bar-none. The World’s worst still perversely posing as ‘World Best’. You couldn’t make it up, but they do everyday via their fake media for morons. E.G. “Here is the News. This is what we want you to think;”

I thought it was fascinating that Giles Coren listed actors and dancers as “wankers” yet irony is (and others have repeatedly claimed), that everyone knows that food critics are in the list of the top 5 wankers of the modern world.

Jokes aside, I think it is valuable to note that the conception of understanding normative childhood sexuality, has not been a process of societal and anthropology/ social scientifical research. Not since the boom days of the 50s and tailing in the late 70’s. I guess Western Society influence is still harking back to the bad old days of childhood innocence, when the innocence has long since been disbanded, if indeed it was ever there??
We live in a modern age of so much social hypocrisy and double standards, its difficult to fathom if there will ever be breakthroughs to discuss these normality’s as functional discussions. Nature beats Nurture always.

As a pre-teen, I was nurtured by such a person as Giles was inferring, I don’t feel my childhood was anyway affected negatively. If anything it was of the positive. I would go on but how much of that I would not divulge, on grounds without permission to is another tale. In saying that, we are products of such interventions that Western social science have left us stranded, not fully embraced nor care about. Of which I would state is fraudulent and if anything, leaves us more fragmented and perhaps indifferent to the majority of sexual-norm brainwashing. There is no place for people like us, which makes it far more difficult to integrate without social masking.

Anyways, back to watching the Huw Edwards debacle, to place the image of MAPS behind another 100 years, not that I would consider him as one !

Last edited 2 months ago by Zee

Maybe I could write a small post on it at some point and post here?

8 thumbs down , wow

>its difficult to fathom if there will ever be breakthroughs to discuss these normality’s as functional discussions.

Prime Time ‘Live’ straight, not fake, media masturdebates with HOT Shot MAPs & AAMs can EASILY trash brain-dead antis in plain-sight blind to brains-developed kids convicted for criminal violence against adults – but can’t consent to share mere sex-pleasure with adults?

Quote brains-developed AAMs, “Always respect true, not fake, victims. Include millions of true victims of fake media. Brain-dead antis get the fuck off-air, offline, outta sight, and outta here, d’ya hear?! Send all brain-dead antis to longterm SENSE OFFENDER Treatment Programs, and release brainy MAP Edwards to present weekly (not weakly) ‘Global Live’ Prime Time TV masturdebates with brains-developed AAMs linked to brains-developed AAMs Worldwide. Not least in Anglo-defiled offensive Ecuador to fast release and compensate victim-survivor MAPs from Holland.”

Quote HOT Teach Tom, “Now THAT’S a-tellin ’em HHP. Job dun, move right ohn UP one son.”
HHP, “Gee thanx, I’ll try the front-row HOT lil blonde, agin…”

Last edited 2 months ago by HappyHumpingPup

A good (and permanent) way of getting around paywalls is finding the original copy in wayback machine:

https://web.archive.org/web/20240830192741/https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/everything-you-need-to-know-about-big-school-lhgsdstk2

12ft.io also works with some paywalled news sites.

someones thumbing you down…. antis present on here??

I would imagine it’s very easy to program a robot to repeatedly downvote a particular person’s comments.

The idea would be for antis, anti-c’s or feds to do this in order to distract user base or undermine the publisher.

You could perhaps ask your admin to install a plugin for youtube style voting (i.e. no downvotes, only the number of upvotes is displayed).

On reflection, I think this style of “helpful” voting would suit this blog. Nobody really wants to know how many people are pissed at a comment when the blog is devoted to unpopular opinions.

Last edited 2 months ago by Strat/Jim

Fascinating to hear about Floyd M. Martinson. So much proof of childhood sexuality.

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