When some of my good friends would meet me, they would sometimes say, “How are ya, ya old fucker!” One night when my dad came home from work, I ran and greeted him by saying, “How are you, Dad, you old fucker!” This occasion marked the beginning of my sex education!
Half a century ago, when this anecdote about a preteen boy’s hilarious (or potentially disastrous) social blunder appeared in a pioneering book on the sex life of children, everyone knew you just didn’t talk to your father that way. But if you didn’t even know WTF the word “fuck” meant, as this one plainly didn’t, you were always going to be at risk of putting your foot in it, weren’t you?
Same thing happened to me. Within earshot of Dad at home I shouted out “What a daft twat!”, possibly at some clown on the telly. In an ominously solemn tone Dad asked where I had heard that word, and whether I knew what it meant. Of course, I hadn’t known what a “twat” was and found myself deeply embarrassed to discover it was a “rude” word for a lady’s “private parts”. Convinced of my innocence (aka ignorance), Dad simply said I was never to use the word again. And that was that.
As far as I can remember, that was the only occasion in my entire childhood when anything of a sexual nature was mentioned at home other than me being given the message in very early childhood that certain body areas should always be covered, and that words associated with them were forbidden. My parents were very loving and I am sure I benefitted hugely from growing up as part of a stable family. But the sexual reticence of their era was not at all helpful.
Such thoughts must have occurred to Floyd M. Martinson, whose book Infant and Child Sexuality: A Sociological Perspective, appeared in 1973. It includes the quotation above as part of its extensive use of interviews with young adults about their early sex lives and its social context. I intended to blog about his work three years ago but found myself sidetracked into writing here about two other sex research pioneers of that era, Ernest Borneman and Carlfred Broderick. Prompted by our erudite regular commentator Prue Cordell, who asked at the time why I had left out Martinson, I have now finally managed to get back on track.
So, let me tell you about the guy. Martinson was a professor of sociology for an astonishing 55 years, from 1945 until his death in 2000, at just one institution, Gustavus Adolphus College, Minnesota, a liberal arts college in his native state, associated with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. After his first couple of decades in the job he must have been seen as an institution in himself, part of the fabric of the place. Having also grown up and been educated entirely within the state, his local roots ran very deep. Like the college itself, he was a pillar of the Lutheran Church, with a stable family life from 1946 onwards when he married his wife Beatrice, a match that gave them five children. Such stability would have made him a man trusted enough to handle such a controversial research subject as child sexuality.
His apparent contentment to stay locally well grounded comes as no surprise when we learn that his youth had been spent on far less solid terrain, in the most literal sense. Born in 1916, he had been a farm boy in hard times, when agriculture in the Midwest was hit by a devastating double whammy: the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl, a drought era lasting well over a decade, with dry, windy conditions that blew away the topsoil. Many will be familiar with the tragic story, as I was, from John Steinbeck’s novel The Grapes of Wrath and its film version, but I had no idea things were bad as far north as Minnesota. As Martinson writes in a memoir:
I remember the air was filled with dry-as-dust topsoil blowing across the fields, depositing itself like snow drifts along field fences. Great balls of tumbleweeds rolled across the dry, crusty bottom of what had been Buffalo Lake. I remember a day when we were cutting our sparse crops. Dad was riding the tractor, the lugs kicked up clouds of dust, and I was riding the binder, sweat and dust covering me. Grasshoppers, attracted by the salt and sweat, sat on my back and ate holes in my shirt. It was a time that left a lasting impression on a teenager.
Thanks to the hardscrabble living, it was touch and go whether he ever went to high school, never mind college. After school he had to put in four more years on the farm before majoring in economics at a small college. While there, he discovered that rural sociologists were in demand. Later, he would graduate in that subject from the University of Minnesota.
His move towards researching the sociology of sex was gradual, starting with his PhD thesis at Gustavus Adolphus on rural-to-urban migration, when he noticed that students who married soon after graduating from high school had low scores on social and emotional adjustment, a finding that contradicted the conventional wisdom of the day. He wrote an article about it for the American Sociological Review titled “Ego deficiency as a factor in marriage”, which quickly drew the attention of the New York Times. Their scandalised reporter demanded to know what he had got against marriage!
From this experience, and from student feedback, he realised there was a keen interest in marriage and family life, which he accordingly began to focus on in his teaching and writing, leading eventually to two books, Marriage and the American Ideal (1960) and Family in Society (1970). The focus on child sexuality came accidentally, as he puts it, after developing a course on the theme of “sexual culture and sexual socialisation in our sex-inhibited society”. By this time he was a director of the Lutheran Social Service, which was much exercised with the problem of schoolgirls falling pregnant. As a research method, Martinson engaged his undergraduate students as a volunteer army. They were sent out to ask “What is it like to grow up in your community?”, with the implicit task of finding out “What is it like to grow up sexually in your community?”.
The big breakthrough, though, came in connection with his students’ library research for essays dealing with subjects such as mate selection, marriage, divorce, reproduction, and cross-cultural differences. After a number of years, he says, “I introduced an alternative paper theme that literally changed my professional interest. I suggested to students that they could write on some aspects of their own life experience, which they would describe and analyse utilising concepts introduced in the course.” To his surprise, many wrote on sexual experiences that had occurred very early in their lives.
Thus began his gathering of over one thousand sex histories, a sample of which were drawn on thematically in Infant and Child Sexuality, along with case material from interviews with 200 unmarried mothers, and in the general community. He also drew on previously unpublished data from Alfred Kinsey’s interview notes on a sample of children two to five years of age.
The conceptual framework of the book is sociological, focusing on the affectional and sexual encounters of the young with others, including adults. He noted that most of the earlier work in the field had been number crunching, reporting on the incidence of various sexual phenomena. And most surveys in question had been about teenagers rather than younger children. He sought to rectify this imbalance, and instead of presenting lots of statistics (“quantitative” research), his work would be more “qualitative”. Surveys designed to discover hard facts and figures, he said, are valuable in showing how prevalent various kinds of behavior are; but, taken alone, they oversimplify the picture. They tell us little or nothing about how the subjects, in this case the children, define and experience their situations.
You need to take a good look at such experiences and how children see them. Only by taking their responses into account does it become possible to think intelligently about public policy on such matters as sex education, in the home and at school, and when/whether permissive or restrictive approaches to sexual behaviour will work. Without such information it is all too easy to focus on misconceived questions based on premature theorising, leading to poor quality quantitative research. The latter can give the illusion of being based on “hard facts” while actually being very misleading.
One such weak theory, Freud’s notion that sexuality is dormant, or “latent” in the prepubertal years from 7-11, is significantly undermined by the rich narratives of sexual feelings and behaviours that Martinson sets forth from children in this age bracket, although he divides key age ranges slightly differently. His book has three main sections, separately considering Infancy (0-2); Early Childhood (3-7); and Preadolescence (8-12).
Commonly, of course, children’s preteen sexual feelings are denied far more comprehensively than Freud ever did, famous as he was for advancing a theory of infantile sexuality. In this regard, Martinson could hardly ask babies to describe their experiences, and adults typically remember nothing at all of their own infancy. As with all his three sections, though, he drew extensively on all available sources of information, including mothers’ observations, and earlier formal research from such figures as Kinsey, Broderick and Glenn Ramsey. The result was a book that brought new and earlier material together in a compelling way.
Boy babies, he noted, are sometimes born with erections, “and there is no reason to believe that the capacity for such marked physiological response develops any later in girls”. In a study of nine male babies of ages three to twenty weeks, penile erection was observed at least once daily in seven of the nine. Individual responses varied greatly from five to forty erections per day.
Pelvic thrust movements in male and female infants eight to ten months old “appear to occur as part of an expression of affection in which the baby holds onto the parent, nuzzles the parent, and rapidly thrusts and rotates the pelvis for a few seconds”. Kinsey, he noted, reported one record of a seven-month-old infant and records of five infants under one year who were observed to masturbate. Twenty-three girls, three years or younger, appeared to reach orgasm in self stimulation. Kinsey’s unpublished interview data includes a sample of two-year-olds and their mothers. One mother reported that her son used to rub against a doll’s head to masturbate. Another reported that her son’s masturbating was deliberate, prolonged, and accompanied by an erection.
The first evidence of love appears in Early Childhood (3-7), Martinson tells us. Based on work by Sanford Bell, it is characterised as “spontaneous, profuse, and unrestrained”. Bell gives many examples. It is tempting to quote lots of them, but I’ll stick with just the one:
My nephew of three manifested an ardent passion for a small girl of about the same age. He followed her about with dog-like persistence. Being an only child he was very selfish, never sharing anything with other children. But Bessie became the recipient of all his playthings. His hoard of treasures was laid at her feet. Nothing was good enough for her, nor could he be dressed fine enough when she was around. On one occasion, a large boy picked Bessie up to fondle her, whereupon her jealous lover seized a hatchet and attacked his rival. He imperiously demanded a dollar from me one day in order that he might buy Bessie and have her “all for his own”. He is now six, and loves her as much as ever.
Innocent passion? We would be innocent to think so in the light of recollections by Martinson’s informants. These include reports of specifically sexual feelings in very early childhood, in both individual and social contexts, as seen in these three examples:
The first time I can recall having a sexually pleasing sensation was when I was around three or four. I remember feeling very proud of what I had learned (how to masturbate) and the strange sensation it aroused.
**
My neighbourhood environment has always been quite permissive which enabled me (a boy) the time and freedom to become the finest five-year-old doctor in my neighbourhood. I clearly remember associating my penile erections with examination of the next door girl’s anatomy.
**
In first grade, I can remember my first actual erection. I was sitting on my teacher’s lap, but was neither ashamed nor embarrassed at the small bulge in my pants.
As hinted in the last of these examples, and as Martinson acknowledges, the child is sometimes the initiator or provoker in child-adult sexual encounters, and “may seek a form of satisfaction which is given through an affectional-sexual encounter.”
Also hinted at here (the “quite permissive” environment of the five-year-old “doctor”), social circumstances count for a lot. The latency theory of later preadolescent childhood, to the extent that any facts support it, probably just reflects older kids’ sensible caution in making sure potentially disapproving adults do not see what they are up to – inhibitions that will only have strengthened in our present era, obsessed as it is with “protecting” children, even from their own sexuality.
Not that even the 1970s were as relaxed on the subject as is sometimes suggested. It is no accident that Martinson found publishers for his many other books but not this one, which was published privately after being turned down by 29 firms. As he wryly notes, “All thought that it should be published, but each thought that some other publisher should have the privilege!” Even this book made it eventually, though, when it was brought out in 1994 as The Sexual Life of Children, with extensive revisions in the light of further research. This time it was taken on by a venerable old (established 1612) publishing house, Bergin and Garvey, suggesting that the author’s national, and indeed international, reputation had been secured by this time.
This is confirmed by the fact that in 1980 he was honoured with a prestigious Fulbright Research Scholarship to study child sexuality in the more liberal climate of Sweden, and among several major awards he won was the Alfred C. Kinsey Award in 1988.
The emphasis today has been on Martinson’s personal story; my introduction of his research data has been relatively constrained. The latter can be explored more thoroughly in a free full-text PDF of Infant and Child Sexuality here.
YOUR PAEDO TEACHER MIGHT BE YOUR BEST ONE
The last time I had occasion to mention Giles Coren, humourist and restaurant critic, was over his trenchant and constructive analysis early this year of childhood obesity and what to do about it. Now, in another of his regular columns for The Times, he has cautiously ventured onto more dangerous childhood terrain, with a significantly less than totally damning view of paedophilia.
The theme of the column a couple of weeks ago was the start of the new school year. Headed “Everything you need to know about big school”, the article (paywalled, but it is available in full at Wayback Machine) gave jokey advice to kids, including about teachers who might have the hots for them. It was couched as a warning, as you might expect, but note the relative gentleness of the tone:
The teacher you think is a paedophile is a paedophile. It is not necessarily anything to be afraid of, but don’t be shy to believe it of them. My favourite teacher, who taught me how to write but also touched me in unwelcome ways and was the subject of insinuating graffiti and chants, was later, to nobody’s surprise, convicted of (quite minor) sexual offences against children. Indeed, both my children have already had a favourite teacher arrested, charged, convicted and defenestrated for (again, quite minor) sexual offences. Lots of schools have no paedophiles at all any more. But some do. It’s just a fact of life. So if there is a general consensus among the kids that that teacher is a wrong ‘un, he probably is.
Tell me I’m wrong if you want, but it looks to me as though he thinks a “wrong ‘un” might still be worth having as a teacher even if they are a bit naughty – indeed, they might be preferred to the less friendly “well behaved” types!
YOU CAN’T TRUMP THIS FOR TOPICAL RELEVANCE
Any MAP who is keen to know the track records of Kamala Harris and Donald Trump on sex offender policy ahead of the US presidential election would do well to read a new article from the Percy Foundation.
Titled “The Cop vs. the Predator: Harris, Trump, and the Politics of Sexual Menace”, the piece is remarkably even-handed, with deep analysis and extensive sourcing.
While I am no fan of Trump, and I am sure I would never vote for him if I had American citizenship, any enthusiasm I might have been able to find for Harris as an improvement on doddery Joe Biden was not exactly enhanced by this read.
As for Trump’s record, we all know his reputation as a groper, but not everyone will be aware of his endorsement of Tim Ballard, the discredited former CEO of the anti-sex trafficking organisation “Operation Underground Railroad” (OUR), whose outrageous witch hunting was responsible (along with another such organisation) for the unjust incarceration of three Dutch former MAP activists, as reported by HTOC.
The article also presents an interesting theory as to why Trump’s evangelical Christian supporters do not appear to be all that bothered by the ex-president’s own record as a convicted felon.
TERRIBLE NEWS FROM ECUADOR
Former MAP activist Marthijn Uittenbogaard and his partner Lesley, arrested in June 2022 in Ecuador and sentenced on baseless charges to 10-year prison terms after a vicious campaign of lies orchestrated by Tim Ballard (see above), were hoping for better news from their long delayed appeal.
Sadly, it was not to be. As reported on Newgon, the appeal was heard a few days ago, when the trial judge’s ruling was upheld. According to the lawyers, the court did not listen to their defence.
I will not dwell at length on the horrific back story, which has been regularly updated at the Newgon link. I will just briefly note that these guys have been subjected to many episodes of extreme violence, against a constant background of terror and deprivation; half starved to death and brutalised, they have been clinging on in nightmarish, hellhole conditions.
As for Ballard, who ought to have been utterly discredited, he appears to be carrying on as though nothing has happened – rather like Trump following his criminal convictions. The one bit of good news (or better than horrific, at least) is that Marthijn and Lesley were transferred at their own request last month to an “LGBTQ-friendly” department, which should in theory be safer. The full Newgon reports are quite lengthy. For a quick catch-up, see the following dated entries:
Ballard and OUR: 17 Sep 2023; 31 Jul 2024
Prison conditions: 9 Jan 2024; 13 Jan; 21 Jan; 11 Mar; 21 Mar; 28 Jul; 15 Aug
Legal: 22 Jun; 3 Jul; 12 Jul; 15 Jul; 9 Sep; 13 Sep
I just want to say a big up to this mother, hopefully one day more parents will realise like her that their children can make decisions for themselves and as you all can see their relationship has survived into a long lasting marriage as we heretics know that children can consent.
22-Year-Old Marries 14-Year-Old | Wayback Wilkos – YouTube
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For anyone who’s not read this incredibly positive, down-to-earth, and non-sensationalist article, check out: Amanda H. Littauer, Queer Girls and Intergenerational Lesbian Sexuality in the 1970s, in Historical Reflections, 46:1 (2020), 95-108.
After far too long a delay, it’s finally available on Sci-hub for the world to see. Happy days!
>Queer Girls and Intergenerational Lesbian Sexuality in the 1970s
Late SeXy ’70s observant Bold MAP once saw a group of two wimmin with three HOT Lolis exiting a night time McDonalds and crossing a busy road. One woman scooped up one HOT Loli circa 6yo and hurried to the far curb near to Bold MAP, where the Lez MAP Woman close murmured to the Lez AAM HOT Loli, “Let’s have a BIG Kiss now before the others see us.” And they did!!
I’ve just discovered a site that is so incredibly based, that you might want to add it to the blog roll next to Newgon, IPCE etc.
A very professional-looking blog site called Human Stupidity, where they criticize what they see as just that. Loads and loads of thoughtful posts which make reference to Rind et al., Susan Clancy, and even more incredibly, being willing to argue that the viewing of CP images is not in itself harmful, i.e. ‘re-victimizes’ the younger person (even if they’re dead or fictitious?)… Kudos to the author for putting a contrary and evidence-based perspective out there.
A potential caveat for some readers is that the arguments focus on teenagers and adolescents, not ‘children’ as in pre-pubescents. If you’re okay with that, you’ll probably enjoy reading their posts. Also, they seem like good introductory pieces…
E.g. https://human-stupidity.com/stupid-dogma/teenage-sexuality/the-child-sex-trauma-myth-1-you-must-be-a-pedophile-if-you-defend-child-porn-and-pedophiles
Thanks to MU posters for sharing…
(Also wow, Libsoftiktok and Gays Against Groomers tweeted about MU: getting noticed by the big names)!
Linsey dawn mckenziwe happily got her huge melons out at 16 in the uk and is perfectly fine today. even if she was 15 she would have been fine
The “Human Stupidity” site has not published any article for the last year and a half. Articles on the stupidity of paedo-scare are a minority, and not very original. There are many others attacking the “Left” and “Black Lives Matter”, denying racist police violence, or even defending racism.
What is the largest age difference in marriage for any famous people or celebrities? What was it and why did they marry that person?
The legendary actor Anthony Quinn was 70 when he met Kathy Benvin, aged only 23. She went from being his secretary to his wife. She said she had an idea of seventy being this age where people “sit in a chair and more or less wait to die…” Then she met Quinn in a tracksuit after he went jogging, telling her: ”My life is a mess. I’m painting something, I’m going to do a play and I’m making a movie and I’m writing a script and I need somebody to help me.”
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=549196631000474&set=a.170697792183695
New book out from publisher Arcadian Dreams, https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/The_Book_of_Beautiful_Boys_(book)
By complete chance, after thinking I’d seen every 70s / 80s queer theorist who’d made supportive statements about age-gap sex contact, I stumbled on another. Not to jinx it, but I can see Reduxx writing a piece on this guy, as they’re very overtly pro-trans (transsexual in their 1970s terms) and also supportive towards paedophilia. They pretty much embody what I take to be Reduxx’s worst fears, even though this person is long dead.
I did a relatively quick deep dive, took a bit of time to understand the context of relevant passages and what the hell they’re on about in amongst the dense verbiage of critical theory speak, and came up with a page that has all the relevant links and citations. See https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Mario_Mieli
A really pleasant read about them that I draw on for this entry, can be read here: https://sfbaytimes.com/mario-mieli-homosexuality-humanity-and-liberation/
>Enderunlu Fazil Bey … a famous Ottoman poet who depicted the beauty of men, boys and women
What, no girls?! This is an unfamiliar combination of adult male enthusiasms to the best of my knowledge.
Men attracted to boys and women is a well known combination, best exemplified in the sex lives of the ancient Greek pederasts, who had wives as well as loved boys.
Men and boys is common enough in the gay world, despite denials.
Men who fancy both women and girls is probably by far the most common combination, again despite denials.
Then there are the pansexuals, who go for the full set: men and boys, women and girls.
But Bey apparently says, “No, I’m not greedy. Three out of the four is quite enough, thank you.”
What, no girls?!
>To be fair, that probably is a mistake on my part. I am almost certain that in the time and place that this guy lived, you’d be almost certain to find some appraisal of the beauty of girls. If he praised the beauty of women, he probably didn’t stick to praising MILFS – that would be pretty unusual historically I’d have thought. So yes, I’ll do some quick searching sometime.
That page is basically meant to be a record of the book’s existence and the significance of its author, as well as a small free advertisement for a book that’s just been released.
>That page is basically meant to be…
It is a page that was well worth doing. It’s a book well worth knowing about.
This is a more correct description of pansexuality than the way “progressives” describe it.
How do they describe it? My need to ask suggests I must be getting very out of touch, so I hope you will bring me up to date!
They describe it as a preference for any gender and gender identity, but chronophilic and zoophilic preferences are excluded. In other words, it’s not true pansexuality
Oh, right, so constructed just around gender, based on the non-binary gender spectrum thing. So you can have 57 varieties of gender, or 57,000 for that matter, thereby giving the illusion of as much choice as anyone could reasonably want. So they manage to be restrictive and censorious while pretending to be liberal and permissive. Neat trick!
But Bey apparently says, “No, I’m not greedy. Three out of the four is quite enough, thank you.”
I very much doubt this. The Newgon page charactises Fazil Bey as “a famous Ottoman poet who depicted the beauty of men, boys and women”, but supplies no evidence for his attraction to men; the only link it supplies (by clicking on the poet’s name) is to the Wikipedia page. But the Wikipedia page is obviously just a piece of gaywashing, listing his book on boys as “The Book of the Beautiful [Men]” (sic).
I suspect you are right, Diogenes, to say there is no evidence of his attraction to men, and the Wikipedia article (where the poet’s name is rendered as Enderûnlu Fâzıl) does appear to be an egregious case of gay-washing. The very first sentence of the entry claims he “depicted the beauty of men”. Maybe now is the time to edit that page, citing the newly published Arcadian Dreams edition as an authoritative source?
The Newgon page helpfully quotes from the new publisher’s book description, from which we learn that the title took a curious turn back to 1909, when the book was published in a French translation in Paris under the title Livre des Beaux – hence neutral as to both age and gender. So the WP version of the title would be justifiable if rendered as The Book of the Beautiful rather than with the bogus “[Men]” tacked on.
But why wasn’t the French version called Livre des Beaux Garçons?
This looks like a case of straight-washing! While Paris in those days was the place for publishing naughty books, the publisher might well have thought it wise not to be too full-on with the title.
Incidentally, I see the editor is Edmund Marlowe, who will be known to many as the author of the BL novel Alexander’s Choice, and as the scholar behind the website Greek Love Through the Ages (see HTOC’s “Hotspots” links).
In the Newgon link to Mario Mieli:
>Similar to Feminist Andrea Dworkin (1974),[6] Mieli considers a future civilization where freedom for transsexuals, pedophiles and children would exist alongside one another.
Some mistake, surely?
Here is Dworkin’s WP page entry on this:
Dworkin’s work from the early 1980s onward contained frequent condemnations of incest and pedophilia as one of the chief forms of violence against women, arguing once that “incest is a crime committed against someone, a crime from which many victims never recover.” In the early 1980s, she had a public row with her formerly admired friend Allen Ginsberg, with whom she shared godparent status of a mutual friend’s child. The intense disagreement was over his support for child pornography and pedophilia, in which Ginsberg said, “The right wants to put me in jail.” Dworkin responded, “Yes, they’re very sentimental; I’d kill you.” — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Dworkin
“Some mistake, surely?”
Most surprisingly, as MAP activist Roger Moody pointed out (1986), Dworkin made supportive statements in her 1st published book Woman Hating (1974), in which she also supports the practice of incest and bestiality[18] in a future “androgynous” society, before turning militantly against age-disparate eroticism in later years. As for children, they too are erotic beings, closer to androgyny than the adults who oppress them. Children are fully capable of participating in community, and have every right to live out their own erotic impulses. In androgynous community, those impulses would retain a high degree of non-specificity and would no doubt show the rest of us the way into sexual self-realization. The distinctions between “children” and “adults,” and the social institutions which enforce those distinctions, would disappear as androgynous community develops.
https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Feminism
Thanks “maybe”. Like Prue (see his reply to my point), I am gobsmacked to discover Dworkin’s total turnaround.
No it’s not a mistake. I know, I couldn’t believe it either until I saw it with my own eyes. Nope, in the 1970s, in her first book in 1974, Andrea Dworkin stated her view that in a future “androgynous society,” we’d see the floodgates of polymorphous perversity open, embodied par excellence by what they saw as the undifferentiated sexuality of children, showing us all just how free we could be. Embracing the fluidity, non rigidity of desire, she saw a positive future for a large amount of non-normative sexual behaviors, including bestiality, incest, and age gap sex.
It is very quintessentially 70’s thinking on sex and desire, and of course as you say Dworkin would dramatically switch gears in the 1980s when age gap sex became public enemy number one, absolutely demonized as a defacto act of rape and coercion for the younger party. I’m sure that news media, combined with most of her friends and feminist supporters who likely started seeing red with any mention of “children” and sex, would’ve led to immense pressure for her to conform and change tacks.
I found thes quotes through reading Roger Moody. Was surprised to see him cite Dworkin, checked it and was gobsmacked (a very common occurance reading about these topics). There’s a quote a that footnote on the Mieli page, but you can find slightly more quoted in a different footnote on the Feminism page. There’s a small dedicated section on Dworkin…
Truly, you learn fascinating things in MAP studies :p
>No it’s not a mistake. I know, I couldn’t believe it either until I saw it with my own eyes.
Gobsmacking indeed! For a woman who grew so obese her legs couldn’t support her, she was remarkably nimble at shifting her ground!
>I found thes quotes through reading Roger Moody. Was surprised to see him cite Dworkin, checked it and was gobsmacked (a very common occurance reading about these topics).
(Petty ped-ant HHP err-ection, detect-shun, correc-shun, “occurrence’?
Roger Moody obit (quotes Tom too): “North London: Youth worker Roger Moody was a proud paedophile” 28th March 2023
https://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/crime/23416048.north-london-youth-worker-roger-moody-proud-paedophile/
Interesting link I’d not seen before, so thanks for posting. I wonder what Tom,and anyone else who knew Moody on a more friendly and open basis, would make of this?
(I’ll update the page on Roger sometime soon, integrating this info with a more neutral framing)…
There’s a quote from Andrea’s book “Woman Hating” in a footnote at the bottom of Mario Mieli’s page. It looks like she had a more optimistic view of sexuality between children and adults before the 80s.
Thanks. I should have looked more carefully.
I tell people the flag represents bigotry, and when i tell them they dont support age gap relations, they say `so they shouldnt !!!! i was right.
Feedback…
https://www.boychat.org/messages/1632630.htm
Not sure as to the context, as I have not read the book.
Interesting and nice to see some evidence here that people are reading these pages (good!)… As for gaywashing… Well, I don’t plan or purchasing or reading this book, and have virtually zero interest in the nitty-gritty of middle eastern history, so I made this page based on limited info. The book description, Wikipedia, and the few English pages I could find that were of any relevance.
At the time, I didn’t realize that Wiki added ‘[Men]’ at the end of the book title, so that is interesting feedback for sure. I assumed it was just another book. That perhaps there’s a separate book on the ‘Boy’ that wasn’t included on Wikipedia. But no, looking again, I it sounds like the BC posters are correct that Wiki is hiding the book’s real title. It seems likely, based on Wiki and Edmund, that the original title was either just Beautiful, or Beautiful Boys.
Cool stuff and helpful info from someone who claims to have read the book (awesome, good on you!). See what I mean about learning interesting things in MAP Studies? :p Will update the page reflecting this info soon…
Another enemy for the list- Eamonn Holmes. Yes, he wants philip schofield thrown in front of a bus. How very Catholic of you, you sick man !
Decoding the Sex Trafficking Case Against Sean ‘Diddy’ Combs
https://reason.com/2024/09/18/decoding-the-sex-trafficking-case-against-sean-diddy-combs/
EXCLUSIVE: German Parliament To Review Petition To Make “Pedosexuality” A Legally Protected Identity
https://reduxx.info/exclusive-german-parliament-to-review-petition-to-make-pedosexuality-a-legally-protected-identity/
Thats a bit of an umbrella term, that include people who like 3 year olds and 17 year olds?
UK danger-kids CRIMINALS, 12, longterm caged for MURDERING man, 19, in park.
UK horny-kids aMused AAMs sharing pleasure with aMusing benign MAPs in parks; are VICTIMS??
Quote, SeXy ’70s horny AAM HOT Loli, 6, in secluded park, panties down pro-actively straddling Bold MAP (close watched by aMused wide-eyed friend HOT Loli, 5:), “Let’s do it! ..that’s no good, YOU get on top!!” Fumbling benign Bold MAP, “It’s no use lovely, you’re too small.” Undeterred wide-legged, laid back imaginative HOT Loli AAM, just had her bald-slit/clit brushed by a smooth BIG-Knob, “Will you LICK my bum?”
What would a benign MAP do??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Shawn_Seesahai
US of Absolute nutjobs- y2meta.com – Woman Receives Life Sentence for Forcing 13 year old Boy to touch her breasts (Actual Hearing)(36
Why do you use so many unnecessary capital letters? It makes your comments harder to read.
>Why do you use so many unnecessary capital letters? It makes your comments harder to read.
Emotional emphasis: ‘map’, ‘aam’, ‘amusing’, ‘sexy’, ‘hot’, look so cold.
You might like to re-examine your policy and ask yourself why professional writers don’t adopt it. Do you think, for example, the novels of Jane Austen would really benefit from re-editing in that way?
>Do you think, for example, the novels of Jane Austen would really benefit from re-editing in that way?
Pre-Victorian uptite Anglo muddle-class Austen – WTF?!
HHP not a stuffy olde intelleckshul snob job. Just a bit o’ freeform fun son-sis, much loved by horny fun kids also giggling at leering Victorian professional nonce-sense-icals ‘Pussy Cat’ Ed Lear and Lew Carroll’s HOT smart Loli Alice de-noncing the Bully Red Queen & Co stiffs, quote, “You’re just a pack of cards!”
Gay Lear had the HOTS for a far older barrister judge and was known to introduce himself with a long pseudonym: “Mr Abebika kratoponoko Prizzikalo Kattefello Ablegorabalus Ableborinto phashyph” or “Chakonoton the Cozovex Dossi Fossi Sini Tomentilla Coronilla Polentilla Battledore & Shuttlecock Derry down Derry Dumps”, which he based on Aldiborontiphoskyphorniostikos.
https://thefederalist.com/2024/09/26/activists-defend-canceled-minor-attracted-persons-camp-in-vermont-next-to-school/
More news coverage of Vermont MAP Camp. Quite detailed and makes MAPs look incredibly reasonable and decent, despite the occasional moralizing jab.
I knew this since I read it before, but Wilhelm Reich’s theory of “armour” and sexual repression, and recently read how sexual control basically moulds the person, into a ‘conformist subject’ and I found this quote from ‘ecologielibidinale’
““The suppression of the sexual activity of children and teenagers is the basic mechanism which produces the characterial structures adapted to political, ideological, economic control [… ] The repression of natural sexuality in the child, particularly of the genitality, makes the child apprehensive, timid, obeying, apprehensive in front of the authority, ‘nice’, ‘quiet’; it paralyses its rebellious tendencies, because the rebellion is associated with anguish; by inhibiting the sexual curiosity of the child, it causes a general confusion of its critical sense and of its mental faculties.” Wilhelm Reich.”
To me personally this how ‘neoliberalist-capitalist’ antilibidinal forces the person into a docile and controllable subject, ready for acceptance of labour extraction and social control.
Here is quote from the anarchist library:
“The state as machine of antiproduction operates to restrict, prevent or channel these flows of creative energy so as to preserve fixed social forms and restrict the extent of difference which is able to exist, or the connections it is able to form. Hence, states try to restrict and break down the coming-together of social networks by prohibiting or making difficult the formation of hierarchical assemblages” – Why Deleuze (still) matters. States, war-machines and radical transformation (2010).
Just a thought I had.
>Why Deleuze (still) matters.
I note that this paper mentions Hakim Bey (Peter Lamborn Wilson), who is perhaps best known for his anarchist concept of Temporary Autonomous Zones, i.e. short-lived spaces which elude formal structures of control. In the MAP world, though, he is also known for his erotic and explicit BL fantasy writings. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Lamborn_Wilson
w**ipedia is finished for me. not only did they delete my non map related hard work, but they have articles like
child abuse
which is complete nonsense. on the positive side they do have articles on adolescents and hebe/ephebophilia which kind of contradicts the c abuse article…Why do you think they deleted your non MAP work?
And yes, Wiki editing is a long march towards influence. You’d need to make lots of edits across non controversial pages to build up editor cred, before you’ll have a shot at transforming the big, emotional topics like CSA and Pedophilia which are tightly monitored, censored and framed negatively by Anti editors. You’ll see someone called “Squeakbox” who’s single handedly had enormous influence over these kinda of pages, keeping a more neutral/positive perspective at bay for many years…
Their pedanticness and power tripping. I used some very colorful language when they deleted my stuff! To be fair the pedophilia article is protected as people disagree with what they say but wikipedia is correct on this one . I replace the word
child
with adolescent quite often. Who is this squeakbox?Musk complaining about
pedophiles
being released and people jailed for social media posts. Amazing how someone so rich can be so utterly stupid….>Dust Bowl, a draught era lasting well over a decade,
English dear boy, “drought”?
Thanks, HHP. Well spotted! Now corrected.
Excellent article, there is so much long lost good research from saner times on prepubescent sex, it’s great to have it reintroduced into consciousness. Although that is not my preference, we are all in the same boat now if we appreciate any kind of youthful sexuality or independence, thanks to government tyrants and the grifting abuse industry.
MAP Camp made local TV news: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NJQO0ISTyI4
(Perhaps it’ll make news elsewhere as well, but I reckon media outlets will quiet down unless there’s a follow up to report on. In that vein, I hope Mythebe is okay as there’s a chance they’re being investigated by law enforcement. I’d assume they’ll be fine and it’d be a case of a quick chat and nothing more, but it might be distressing/scary and they might want access to his devices. Even if he thinks he has nothing to fear, just having national attention on his pseudonym could be terrifying and anxiety inducing in itself.
In theory, his real identity could easily be discovered via the camp owner, who would surely have his details as he has stayed there before and they appear to have been friends / friendly. There are of course, benefits to MAPs being out of the closet, and the fact he has repeatedly shown his face in videos could suggest that he isn’t particularly worried. I am thinking aloud and in all probability he’ll be A-OK other than mental anguish, but we should take a moment to wish him the best and applaud him for his attempt(s?) to build community via real-life connections.
I hope that he and Katie can meet each other IRL if they haven’t already. If they’re both out of the closet, there’s a level of interpersonal safety that comes with that, so I reckon they might as well hang out together and support each other. Maybe they can plan MAP Camp V.2, “MAP Camp Reduxx”! :p
Again, good luck to them! Stay strong out there!
https://www.reddit.com/r/RealUnpopularOpinion/comments/1ext0yp/minor_attracted_person_map_should_be_included_in/
i would love to put my opinions on reddit. but whenever ive made an account, anyhting i say gets taken down !!! even non map stuff.
That’s odd. Maybe your IP address is banned by Reddit?
they just assholes, i think.
The latest Teleio turned MAP scandal: Mohamed Al Fayed, the late Harrods owner whose son died with Princess Diana, has been posthumously accused of dozens of sexual assaults from more than 20 female ex-employees. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6x635wpjxo
Most women were aged 19-24 at the time, but some were younger at 15 or 16. As usual, no “children” here. No prepubescents. The language of “predator” and “sexual abuse” is used in much reporting on the case and, since the man in question died last year, I’d imagine he’ll have a hard time defending himself… His son is dead, and who else would want to take the heat of defending him even if they had reason to believe his innocence, have knowledge of mitigating factors, or exaggeration on the part of accusers. He may well have been an overzealous POS, but so hot is the media spotlight that we won’t be hearing a counter-narrative from anyone unless they’re ready to risk tanking their career. I suspect most naysayers, short of skeptics in comments sections, will stay silent…
———–
Here’s another case I forgot to mention: David Copperfield, magician extraordinaire. How interesting that on Wikipedia he is “described by Forbes as the most commercially successful magician in history.” As of 2006, he had sold 33 million tickets and grossed over US$4 billion, more than any other solo entertainer in history by a large margin. In 2015, Forbes listed his earnings at $63 million for the previous 12 months and ranked him the 20th highest-earning celebrity in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copperfield_(illusionist)#Sexual_assault_allegations
The Guardian newspaper created a piece on him that seems to have led to nothing. The most interesting part is the video embedded in the article, where we see a sour-faced female journalist watching his perfectly reasonable and fun magic shows involving young women. Clearly she sees things that aren’t there! :p It’s journalists like this that put me off becoming a journalist; the cruelty, the spin.
Quote:
Copperfield has, to this day, never been charged with a crime. But it’s interesting how it all comes back to Jeffrey Epstein: I wonder if upon investigation, you’d find that many of these women were extremely online during MeToo and subsequent years where QAnon and Epstein became big online? They began reinterpreting their past to find examples that could fit the framing of ‘grooming’ and ‘sexual abuse’?
Want a happy story where it’s very clear a woman lied? Check out baseball player Trevor Bauer who thankfully had the texts/messages necessary to defend himself. Check out the famous interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgU8oy3nSvM
Very informative, Prue, as ever.
It’s very late as I write: memo to self: Must check out links on that Trevor Bauer story.
Once I was looking at the page about the film Peter Pan 2003 (probably the hottest Peter of all time), and I was surprised that the producer of the movie was Mohamed al Fayed. In some publication about him, it was mentioned that after the divorce, his son stayed with him and continued sleep in father’s bed until he was 14 years old.
Prue wrote:
Just saw the video. Amazing that this awful woman managed to con her way to a settlement of more than $300,000 over an obviously baseless claim. What an extraordinarily shameless, brazen, lying performance in interview. Someone commented that it was embarrassing. And so it should have been for anyone with any shame who had been so totally exposed as a liar. But this woman was rather like certain politicians one could mention, and their spokesfolks, who have the “ability” (i.e. lack any sensitivity) to carry on talking unflappably, calmly keeping up the barefaced pretence that they have not been caught out at all. So the exposed accuser in this case wasn’t even blushing all the way to the bank, as it were. A fluent, relaxed liar, she didn’t have the decency to be embarrassed!
>Nice work if you can get it! :p
Unfortunately, some of us have morals, so this line of work just isn’t an option!
It sounds like her and Carl Beech would be a match made in hell
Carl Beech found guilty of lying about Westminster paedophile ring | 5 News (youtube.com)
Just seen the new beetlejuice… jeffrey jones is of course absent.. but what did he do exactly? his character died in a horrific way. and im guessing this is a stab at jeffrey… i dotn think he did anything that bad? i could look it up, but of course id get angry.
What did he do? Matt, you’d better not read the following, or you might get angry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Jones
See heading: Legal issues/ Child sexual abuse materials
Jones’s absence from the Beetlejuice sequel, for those who didn’t know about it already (including me), is discussed here:
https://people.com/beetlejuice-jeffrey-jones-charles-deetz-not-in-sequel-8707300#:~:text=In%20Florida%20in%202004%20and,probation%2C%20as%20BBC%20News%20reported.
thanks.. i was aware it was something along those lines.. i best not read. on top of that, people moaning about beetlejuice being obsessed with an
underage
person. ha, hes from the middle ages.. he doesnt know what that means, silly people.>Now I *have* to watch Beetlejuice. Didn’t know it was a based, MAP pilled (or Teilio cum MAP pilled) movie :p
I’ve never seen it before, but I have seen Tim Burton’s Sleepy Hollow film, where the main female love interest is an extremely neotenous, gorgeous young woman. Highly acclaimed, successful film. Clearly, the director knows what the public likes to see :p
when it was made i dotn think people made such a fuss about someone wanting to marry a teen….. but yes there was a map in it. jeffrey jones! sleepy hollow is ok, how old was christina ricci? oh no, ive just read this- Johnny Depp and Christina Ricci playing love interests in SLEEPY HOLLOW—a movie that was filmed and she was 18/19 and he was 35—was already super gross.
News: The planned ‘MAP Camp’ event, set to take place on the 19th of September at a site in Vermont, has been cancelled. Another way to say it, is that it never took place. Like a specter, its mere possibility haunts the minds of the online Right; the QAnoners, the ‘ok groomer’ cum anti-LGBTQers. There’s the usual suspects, the Twitterati of Andy Ngo and LibsofTikTok in particular, platforming this planned event and the response to it, for their large right-wing audience. It appears that backlash took place on Facebook in a big way too, so that’s novel and different at least :p
In the course of internet sleuthing, the narrative so far is that the event was being organized by Mythbe. He’s described by Andy Ngo as “a trans nonbinary Latinx leftist drag queen activist named Jonathan Peter Jacquez. Jacquez, of Barre, Vt., uses multiple aliases that include “MytheBe,” “Nathan” and “Linda Fromme.” How true any of that is, I don’t know…
He’s an MAP I remember from back in the days when Freespeechtube.org was still around, and Nelson et al. weren’t in an Ecuadorian prison being beaten black and blue… From my memory, Mythbe was a very positive, LGBTQ+ supportive young guy, who posted videos about him coming out to his parents, and even a recording of a therapy/counseling session. I remember thinking he seemed unhinged and deeply unwell, and perhaps he was – and understandably so – given the state of society for MAPs such as himself. With his identification as an anti-contact MAP (I believe this was the language he adopted), his comfort with the use of LGBT and ‘Queer’ language, it’s certainly believable to me that he’d have some involvement in MAP Camp. The project’s website had extremely inclusive, covering-all-your-bases language: terms like PoC (People of Color) and talk of ‘the community.’ I’ll assume this wasn’t intentionally used to play into Right-wing panic, but it still did the job…
Onto the camp itself, the Onion River Campground. Who is it owned by, and did they know a self-identified MAP was staying there? Well apparently the answer is… yes! Yes, the narrative I’m seeing is that the owner is one Jacquelyn Rieke, a sex-positive nudist who even mentioned Mythbe under that name in response to backlash, saying “While Mythbe has been at the campground in the past, I have prohibited any MAPs from coming here again.” They also apologized for using the term “sexual orientation” in an earlier online response. (See what I mean that people are privately more sympathetic than we might think? It’s under the pressure of stigma, fear, and bullying that people performatively (or actually over time) change their views).
Jacquelyn Rieke is also owner of Rabble Rouser, a chocolatier and bar in Montpelier, Vermont. She has past controversy after being targeted for years since 2013 from disgruntled ex-employees who allege “trauma” and “sexual abuse,” after seeing Rieke naked during their employment. I am not kidding, she is described as a “sexual abuser” and “predator” for merely being a nudist in her own home and not covering up in front of the employees.
Although nothing can surely heal the pain of these brave “survivors,” money will help, so this article tells me: https://vtdigger.org/2020/01/29/chocolatier-owner-fights-social-media-attacks-alleging-sexual-misconduct/
Shameless grifters…
————-
There’s news articles about MAP Camp, e.g. https://vermontdailychronicle.com/cops-at-local-school-following-public-concern-over-map-a-k-a-pedophile-camp/
https://abc45.com/news/nation-world/vermont-state-police-monitoring-campground-gathering-of-acutely-marginalized-pedophiles-minor-attracted-persons-map-camp
https://www.timesargus.com/news/local/vsp-looking-into-possible-event-for-minor-attracted-persons/article_1742bcf8-753a-11ef-8fd9-e34b4898e965.html
Boychat posts galore:
Mu’s Response: https://www.boychat.org/messages/1632036.htm
Wider discussion: https://www.boychat.org/messages/1631966.htm
If visibility was the goal, it’s visibility you got. The Mu Forum was tweeted by Andy Ngo, and the term MAP has been publicized further and linked to LGBTQ / progressive politics yet again.
The most positive thing, other than visibility which is debatable, have been the reasonable responses of authorities. Lt. Thomas Howard, Vermont State Police’s Berlin Barracks commander, responded that “people having certain thoughts does not necessarily mean that they’ve committed a crime.” Adam Silverman, public information officer for the Vermont State Police, wrote in an email Tuesday evening:
I think they should plan a similar event for next year, but make it two events on the same day in different locations. One can be the real one with the details only given to those you trust, and see what happens… Good luck to them.
Thanks, Prue. Great report about a not-so-great outcome.
Made new page for the perhaps lesser-known academic https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Gary_Dowsett
Interesting tid-bit with a window into the not-so distant past.
(Will comment on this new blog soooon!) :p
>… the perhaps lesser-known academic… Gary Dowsett
Your new Newgon page clearly shows that he deserves to be much better known among MAPs around the world, beyond Australia. His profile in academia, by contrast, is already manifestly high, as he has over 3,000 citations on ResearchGate and over 2,000 on Google Scholar.
Totally! There is an obsession these days about percentages and numbers. Case studies can often be much more valuable than surveys.
>Case studies can often be much more valuable than surveys.
Check, hypocrite MurDark’s UK top-sales SeX-Filled ‘FAMILY’ tabloid The SUN, Chief London Reporter Tom Wells, 2014, “Kids Aged 6 are Teacher Sex Abusers! Among a sharp rise in similar shocking cases, a six year old girl stood in front of a male teacher, lifted her skirt and boldly massaged herself through her underwear.”
And, SeXy ’70s Bold MAP watching TV with a HOT Loli’s Mom. When thru the wall ‘came’ a rapid knocking from HOT Loli, 10, bouncing her headboard hard while wild wanking in bed, which smiling Bold Map then pulled clear. And naeve Mom asked “What WAS she up to?” Later, nightdress HOT Loli’s long legs languished on Bold Maps’ HOT lap with her bare foot beneath his dressing gown twitching his BIG Bare Lump as she boldly passed him a ‘My Little Pony’ HOT note, “I wish my foot was my fanny!”
And, 21st Century natural self-made C.P. by body-proud guilt free phone-porn-in-their pockets modern kid as young as four. Pro-active modern Horny Kids numbers GROWING WorldWide beyond all control of ancient Anglo Victorian ‘Sex Laws’.
“Four-year-olds investigated by police in England for sexting.”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/30/thousands-of-children-under-14-have-been-investigated-by-police-for-sexting
Indeed, interesting cases to study.
>Indeed, interesting cases to study.
Or ignore by gutless fake Media in deep denial even of celebs rightly claiming as AAMs they were aMused not aBused. E.G. UK TV-Star Dale Winton, 2002, “My Story…”From age twelve I had pro-active sex independently with two attractive teachers, one female the other male. It wasn’t ‘abuse’ I thoroughly enjoyed it. They helped me decide that I was more Gay than straight.”
https://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Story-Dale-Winton/dp/0099443155
General search for “Consenting Juveniles”.
https://www.google.com/search?q=consenting+juveniles&client=firefox-b-e&sca_esv=02c44965d6d4b280&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIKG4If9dnFJJ0EU53SuahkJx8OFlw%3A1727268194833&ei=YgX0ZrPVMqStkdUP1OSGuQM&ved=0ahUKEwizjr25j96IAxWkVqQEHVSyITcQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=consenting+juveniles&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiFGNvbnNlbnRpbmcganV2ZW5pbGVzMgQQABhHMgQQABhHMgQQABhHMgQQABhHMgQQABhHMgQQABhHMgQQABhHMgQQABhHSMELUI8KWI8KcAF4ApABAJgBAKABAKoBALgBA8gBAPgBAZgCAqACtwHCAgoQABiwAxjWBBhHmAMA4gMFEgExIECIBgGQBgiSBwMxLjGgBwA&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
Victim MAP, 27, gets 85-120 years for NO CONTACT ‘crimes’ in U$A/UptiteSickAssholes!!!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/nebraska-man-high-school-teenage-girls-b2614583.html
Well, look on the bright side. It doesn’t look as though his “mother” is going to be fined for keeping her boy off school:
>Scheich spent 54 days enrolled as a student at two different high schools in the area and after he stopped going to school, had his truancy reports sent to a fake address.
“Sugarboy”, a long-time commentator here, has kindly sent me a PDF copy of another pioneering work on child sexuality, Albert Moll’s, The Sexual Life of the Child. Originally published in German in 1909, it appeared in an English language edition in 1912 and was revived online in 2000 by Books Reborn.
It had been Sugarboy’s intention to post a link here to the online version, but he has contacted me saying there no longer seems to be one. Indeed, it looks as though Books Reborn itself is no longer with us.
Accordingly, I have created a link, here.
Moll’s book is a classic. It has been at the back of my mind for years to do a blog about it. Now, having dithered so long, it is time to invite heretics here to read it and submit a guest blog on their discoveries. So, enjoy your reading!
Moll’s book has been digitised on Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/28402
Excellent! Thanks, Christian!
Im not sure why
christian
countries treat people so badly??>Im not sure why
christian
countries treat people so badly??Be assured, 4-centuries ongoing on 5 continents post Reformation of convenience not conviction. Fake Bible anti-Christ Anglos are History’s biggest liars, denyers, self-justifyers, thugs, thieves, cowards, mass murderers bar-none. The World’s worst still perversely posing as ‘World Best’. You couldn’t make it up, but they do everyday via their fake media for morons. E.G. “Here is the News. This is what we want you to think;”
I thought it was fascinating that Giles Coren listed actors and dancers as “wankers” yet irony is (and others have repeatedly claimed), that everyone knows that food critics are in the list of the top 5 wankers of the modern world.
Jokes aside, I think it is valuable to note that the conception of understanding normative childhood sexuality, has not been a process of societal and anthropology/ social scientifical research. Not since the boom days of the 50s and tailing in the late 70’s. I guess Western Society influence is still harking back to the bad old days of childhood innocence, when the innocence has long since been disbanded, if indeed it was ever there??
We live in a modern age of so much social hypocrisy and double standards, its difficult to fathom if there will ever be breakthroughs to discuss these normality’s as functional discussions. Nature beats Nurture always.
As a pre-teen, I was nurtured by such a person as Giles was inferring, I don’t feel my childhood was anyway affected negatively. If anything it was of the positive. I would go on but how much of that I would not divulge, on grounds without permission to is another tale. In saying that, we are products of such interventions that Western social science have left us stranded, not fully embraced nor care about. Of which I would state is fraudulent and if anything, leaves us more fragmented and perhaps indifferent to the majority of sexual-norm brainwashing. There is no place for people like us, which makes it far more difficult to integrate without social masking.
Anyways, back to watching the Huw Edwards debacle, to place the image of MAPS behind another 100 years, not that I would consider him as one !
Shame you can’t say more Zee, but you have made you basic point, which is the main thing. Thanks for that.
Maybe I could write a small post on it at some point and post here?
Yes, Zee, absolutely! It is a grievous offence offence against truth and reality that positive accounts are so routinely suppressed and all we hear is the negative side. Let’s balance that up whenever we can.
8 thumbs down , wow
Thanks for the heads-up, Matt. Something strange is going on. This looks like automated mischief, a hack of some sort. I’ve already got the tech guys looking into it and will point out this new escalation.
Disagreement with what anyone says here, including me, is absolutely fine, but not when it is is automated.
>its difficult to fathom if there will ever be breakthroughs to discuss these normality’s as functional discussions.
Prime Time ‘Live’ straight, not fake, media masturdebates with HOT Shot MAPs & AAMs can EASILY trash brain-dead antis in plain-sight blind to brains-developed kids convicted for criminal violence against adults – but can’t consent to share mere sex-pleasure with adults?
Quote brains-developed AAMs, “Always respect true, not fake, victims. Include millions of true victims of fake media. Brain-dead antis get the fuck off-air, offline, outta sight, and outta here, d’ya hear?! Send all brain-dead antis to longterm SENSE OFFENDER Treatment Programs, and release brainy MAP Edwards to present weekly (not weakly) ‘Global Live’ Prime Time TV masturdebates with brains-developed AAMs linked to brains-developed AAMs Worldwide. Not least in Anglo-defiled offensive Ecuador to fast release and compensate victim-survivor MAPs from Holland.”
Quote HOT Teach Tom, “Now THAT’S a-tellin ’em HHP. Job dun, move right ohn UP one son.”
HHP, “Gee thanx, I’ll try the front-row HOT lil blonde, agin…”
A good (and permanent) way of getting around paywalls is finding the original copy in wayback machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20240830192741/https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/everything-you-need-to-know-about-big-school-lhgsdstk2
12ft.io also works with some paywalled news sites.
Well done, Strat! Excellent! I have used Wayback Machine myself before, but the name doesn’t do it any favours when it comes to newer stuff, like my reference to a newspaper column not much over two weeks old. I guess I had assumed it was just for older stuff from “cancelled” or otherwise defunct websites. Now I know better. 12ft.io looks as though it could be very useful too.
someones thumbing you down…. antis present on here??
This one is a puzzle. I have no idea why anyone would object to my comment about Wayback Machine. They’re welcome to their opinion but it would be helpful to know the reason.
I would imagine it’s very easy to program a robot to repeatedly downvote a particular person’s comments.
The idea would be for antis, anti-c’s or feds to do this in order to distract user base or undermine the publisher.
You could perhaps ask your admin to install a plugin for youtube style voting (i.e. no downvotes, only the number of upvotes is displayed).
On reflection, I think this style of “helpful” voting would suit this blog. Nobody really wants to know how many people are pissed at a comment when the blog is devoted to unpopular opinions.
>You could perhaps ask your admin to install a plugin for youtube style voting (i.e. no downvotes, only the number of upvotes is displayed).
Great suggestion, Strat. I have just this minute conveyed the message to the admin guys.
Tom
Fascinating to hear about Floyd M. Martinson. So much proof of childhood sexuality.